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kurenai

Rough_Rock
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Hi everyone, just found this website and it has been very useful :)
My bf and I went ring shopping and decided that we want to buy the stone separately, I def. want a round diamond and a very simple setting with just the solitaire. I am not fussed by size - obviously would like some "wow" factor but nothing "vulgar".

He is doing the leg work and was offered this stone by a jeweller:
1.25 carat, excellent cut, colour: F, clarity: IF

What are your opinions?
Do you think this is a good choice or should we take lower clarity and colour for larger size at that price? Does it actually make a difference to the geenral appearance of the stone if the clarity was not flawless?

Thanks for your help!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/7/2009 11:46:47 AM
Author:kurenai
1.25 carat, excellent cut, colour: F, clarity: IF

What are your opinions?

Do you think this is a good choice or should we take lower clarity and colour for larger size at that price? Does it actually make a difference to the geenral appearance of the stone if the clarity was not flawless?

Thanks for your help!
First off, which lab graded the stone? AGS/GIA are the top, EGL, IGI not so trusted.

Also, as long as it is eye clean, you will not see anything, so even if you buy an IF stone, no one will notice unless you tell them. So why pay for the mark up of an IF stone when a VS2 or eye clean SI1/2 can do?
 

coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
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6,281
Hi,

We need a bit more information on the stone. Do you have the crown angle, pavilion angle, total depth, table percentage, and girdle thickness?

IF is overkill imo--you'll be fine at VS clarity. You may also be able to find SI clarity that is eye clean.

What is your personal tolerance for color? G-H color is a sweet spot for many.
Well cut rbs also face up nicely at the I-J and even K color(I have a K and a J rb--face up great). It's up to what you're comfortable with--but you can certainly save money going down in color and clarity. Cut is paramount, though. I'd start with the best cut I could afford.
 

kurenai

Rough_Rock
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Feb 7, 2009
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Thanks for your responses
It has a GIA certificate
I don''t know the measurements (haven''t noted them)

My bf looked at some stones with lower clarity and said that he didn''t like the idea of buying me something with laws ;-)
I actually have very slim fingers so when I tried a 1 carat it looked quite nice.

I am still torn between the "quality" and "quantity" :) Also, when we get married I def. want a band with diamonds (not the "eternity" thick ones - I found a very subtle one in art deco style) so thinking maybe a big diamond + diamond band would be overkill?
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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IF is ridiculous. Inclusions in VS grades are virtually undetectable to the naked eye. The appearance of the stone is generally not compromised until you get to the I1/I2 level.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Clarity grading is based on face up examination at 10X magnifications. A diamond can be IF at 10X but there will definitely be flaws if you go down to 20X 30X magnifications. No diamond is flawless, it is just a definition set by the trade.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/7/2009 2:48:50 PM
Author: kurenai
Thanks for your responses
It has a GIA certificate
I don't know the measurements (haven't noted them)

My bf looked at some stones with lower clarity and said that he didn't like the idea of buying me something with laws ;-)
I actually have very slim fingers so when I tried a 1 carat it looked quite nice.

I am still torn between the 'quality' and 'quantity' :) Also, when we get married I def. want a band with diamonds (not the 'eternity' thick ones - I found a very subtle one in art deco style) so thinking maybe a big diamond + diamond band would be overkill?
Welcome!

The most important factor for the beauty of a diamond is cut quality - and if a diamond is well cut and eyeclean then you will not see any visual difference between IF and SI2, so that is what will get you a beautiful rock.

If your BF wants to get you a high clarity diamond, then VVS or VS could fit the bill there, should be clean to the naked eye and still have a degree of ' purity' so to speak. If the cut is excellent as I said above then you will have a gorgeous diamond, and in lowering the clarity just a bit if your Bf is agreeable, then you will still have a ' quality' diamond.

Of course personal preference comes into play at all times, to some IF or VVS clarity is of the utmost importance for various reasons, so if in the end that is what your BF prefers then see what is out there in those clarity grades.

Lastly, don't go by labels such as Excellent cut which can be used by some vendors, as these are no guarantee of a well cut diamond. Also GIA have an Excellent cut grade but the cut grading standards are somewhat broad and can give the Excellent cut grade to some less desirable proportion combinations, so evaluate each diamond carefully - one way you can do this is to note the proportions of the diamonds you like, and use the Holloway Cut Advisor to see which are the best ones to concentrate on. The aim is to score below 2, this tool is not used for selection but for elimination, the tool is linked below for you.

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

You are also very welcome to report back here with the details of any diamond you are interested in, then the veteran PSers can give you an opinion on the diamond's cut and proportions.
 

atroop711

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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It''s all personal preference. I chose an H color SI2 clarity (eye clean) since I wanted a larger stone. My stone is beautiful and you cannot see any inclusions at all. My husband wanted me to get a VVS but I told him with our budget, I preferred a larger stone and didn''t mind getting the SI2 clarity...we would be the only ones that would know the stats of the stone. GL and congrats. Post pics when you get your ring.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 2/7/2009 1:01:33 PM
Author: coatimundi
Hi,

We need a bit more information on the stone. Do you have the crown angle, pavilion angle, total depth, table percentage, and girdle thickness?

IF is overkill imo--you''ll be fine at VS clarity. You may also be able to find SI clarity that is eye clean.

What is your personal tolerance for color? G-H color is a sweet spot for many.
Well cut rbs also face up nicely at the I-J and even K color(I have a K and a J rb--face up great). It''s up to what you''re comfortable with--but you can certainly save money going down in color and clarity. Cut is paramount, though. I''d start with the best cut I could afford.
Also if you would like to ask for opinions on the diamonds you are interested in, if you could post the above measurements that Coaties listed plus the diameter, polish and symmetry, that would help.
 

kurenai

Rough_Rock
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OK so found the details:
table: 58%
cutlet: 0
total depth: 61.4%
crown angle: 34.5%
pavilion angle: 41.2%
polish and symmetry: very good
fluorescence: none
measurements: 6.92-7.00 x 4.27 mm

got all of those from the GIA certificate

BTW - does the GIA certificate guarantee that the stone is NOT a blood diamond? The is actually way more important than anything else to me...
 

DiamondsDiamonds

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 2/7/2009 3:52:55 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 2/7/2009 2:48:50 PM


The most important factor for the beauty of a diamond is cut quality - and if a diamond is well cut and eyeclean then you will not see any visual difference between IF and SI2, so that is what will get you a beautiful rock.


If your BF wants to get you a high clarity diamond, then VVS or VS could fit the bill there, should be clean to the naked eye and still have a degree of '' purity'' so to speak. If the cut is excellent as I said above then you will have a gorgeous diamond, and in lowering the clarity just a bit if your Bf is agreeable, then you will still have a '' quality'' diamond.


Of course personal preference comes into play at all times, to some IF or VVS clarity is of the utmost importance for various reasons, so if in the end that is what your BF prefers then see what is out there in those clarity grades.


Lastly, don''t go by labels such as Excellent cut which can be used by some vendors, as these are no guarantee of a well cut diamond. Also GIA have an Excellent cut grade but the cut grading standards are somewhat broad and can give the Excellent cut grade to some less desirable proportion combinations, so evaluate each diamond carefully - one way you can do this is to note the proportions of the diamonds you like, and use the Holloway Cut Advisor to see which are the best ones to concentrate on. The aim is to score below 2, this tool is not used for selection but for elimination, the tool is linked below for you.


https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp


You are also very welcome to report back here with the details of any diamond you are interested in, then the veteran PSers can give you an opinion on the diamond''s cut and proportions.
Well stated, Lorelei.

And atroop is correct, ultimately it comes down to personal preference.
 

DiamondsDiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
249
Date: 2/7/2009 5:27:21 PM
Author: kurenai
OK so found the details:

BTW - does the GIA certificate guarantee that the stone is NOT a blood diamond? The is actually way more important than anything else to me...
Kurenai,

GIA certs to not address that issue.

However, diamonds sold in the United States must adhere to the Patriot Act, which requires that every U.S. dealer maintain Kimberly compliance. (The Kimberly Process Certification Scheme was established to certify that the origin of rough diamonds are from sources known to be conflict free.)

So, by law, your diamond must be conflict free (e.g., not a “blood diamond”).
 

kurenai

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
10
Thanks DiamondsDiamonds :) that is reassuring as we will def. be purchasing the stone in the US.

The more I read the forum I find that there are a lot of opinions about how clarity is a "waste" of money and I did mention that to my BF but he still feels that a bigger diamond is just too flashy and would look ridiculous - I work in a very "low key" environment and he is concerned that a big rock might just give out the wrong impression and I certainly want to wear my ring every day and not take it off at work he he he

I think what he is saying is that he wants to buy me the "perfect" stone with out the unnecessary "flash" and saving money is not a big criterium for him (to a limit ofcourse :)

I don''t know - my girlfriends are all of the opinion that no diamond is too big and one of them decided to get a 2.35 carat one - I don''t know what specs she is getting but I doubt they are high - she was honest that her focus was size.

So I guess I''m going through a little rock-comparison-envy here :)
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/7/2009 5:27:21 PM
Author: kurenai
OK so found the details:

table: 58%

cutlet: 0

total depth: 61.4%

crown angle: 34.5%

pavilion angle: 41.2%

polish and symmetry: very good

fluorescence: none

measurements: 6.92-7.00 x 4.27 mm


got all of those from the GIA certificate


BTW - does the GIA certificate guarantee that the stone is NOT a blood diamond? The is actually way more important than anything else to me...
This stone gets an HCA of 3.4. You generally want it to score under 2. This means that the cut can be improved. It's probably not horrible, but you could do better.

It's fine to have comparison envy. I think your bf should take that into account, and he certainly should not think something like an engagement ring can give a bad impression. If you want something bigger and are comfortable with that... and it's within his budget...my advice would be to try to talk to him, because he doesn't sound like a man who believes in "upgrades," either.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Date: 2/7/2009 5:27:21 PM
Author: kurenai
OK so found the details:
table: 58%
cutlet: 0
total depth: 61.4%
crown angle: 34.5%
pavilion angle: 41.2%
polish and symmetry: very good
fluorescence: none
measurements: 6.92-7.00 x 4.27 mm
got all of those from the GIA certificate

BTW - does the GIA certificate guarantee that the stone is NOT a blood diamond? Te is actually way more important than anything else to me...
61.4% depth, 58% table, 34.5° crown angle, 41.2° pavilion angle with a HCA 3.4, not really ideal cut from the standard here.

All diamonds sold in US are not supposed to be blood diamonds, it is illegal to trade or be in possession of them from what I understand.
 

kurenai

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
10
hmmmm so I guess the stone is not that great then!
Moving on :)

OK - so if I wanted to go down on the clarity & colour to an acceptable level but say get a 2 carat stone - and I know this is hard to answer because of all the specifications that I''m beginning to learn about on this Forum - what kind of price margin are we looking at?

sorry am a diamond newbie :) and I actually think that discussing this too much with my bf takes some of the romance out of the whole thing :) I don''t want to get an ugly ring and we''ve already decided on the type of setting etc so there is really little risk of that but I don''t want to drone the subject too much with him so any advice is appreciated!
thx
like
PS and no ---- the whole upgrades thing is not an option - I actually wouldn''t want one. Don''t get me wrong - I just don''t think that this is a car that you just upgrade when you can afford a better one, it does mean a lot to me and I want to have the same ring forever :)
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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To get a 2 ct but spend about the same amount of money as an F IF, you''re probably looking around G/H SI1.
 

luv2sparkle

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7,679
can I just say you are talking to a bunch of people here who would never connect the words vulgar and diamonds in the same sentence! I dont think there is such
a thing as too big. That being said, and IF diamond would really appeal to me because I have had diamonds with flaws that I can see and that bugged me.
Color doesnt bug me at all, my diamond is a J ACA from whiteflash. If it was a less well-cut stone, I wouldnt want it. My stone is a VS2 and shows absolutely
nothing from any angle or in their 40X magnification photo, which was enough for me.

The thing I learned most from pricescope, is you have to find the parameters that you personally are happy with. Until you have done enough research and
seen enough diamonds to know what that is. I would wait to purchase if you can. Most important, if I couldnt wait would be to have a AGS lab certified stone
1st and Gia 2nd, for me.
 

DiamondsDiamonds

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Kurenai,

JulieN and Stone-cold correctly indicated the Holloway Cut Adviser score is 3.4 for your diamond, which Holloway classifies as “Very Good.”

But you should consider getting a better cut diamond, which would be rated as “excellent” on the HCA, with a lower clarity grade, and you would thus have a better performing diamond and a better value.

Remember, CUT is the most important "C" of the four C''s. So, get the best cut possible, and go from there.
 

kurenai

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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"can I just say you are talking to a bunch of people here who would never connect the words vulgar and diamonds in the same sentence! I dont think there is such
a thing as too big"

Luvu2 - totally respect that :) and I do understand that this forum is diamond-focused which is why I''m here :razz:

I guess it does boil down to personal preference :) I kind of like the idea of it being flawless :)

Do you guys think 1,25 is small? What is the average e-ring size?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/7/2009 7:01:44 PM
Author: kurenai
I guess it does boil down to personal preference :) I kind of like the idea of it being flawless :)

Do you guys think 1,25 is small? What is the average e-ring size?
Depends on the crowd you hang out with I guess. Around my friends, engineers, 1c is large bordering on obscene.
 

Noahsmom

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Date: 2/7/2009 7:01:44 PM
Author: kurenai
''can I just say you are talking to a bunch of people here who would never connect the words vulgar and diamonds in the same sentence! I dont think there is such

a thing as too big''


Luvu2 - totally respect that :) and I do understand that this forum is diamond-focused which is why I''m here :razz:


I guess it does boil down to personal preference :) I kind of like the idea of it being flawless :)


Do you guys think 1,25 is small? What is the average e-ring size?
Where I am, 1ct is the average to on the smaller side. I have a .52 and upgrading to a .84. I plan on keeping that .84 for a very long time, so I am 100% thrilled with my choice, and THAT is what is important. If you don''t plan on trading up, then make sure you get what you want. Don''t rush into it, enjoy the looking and trying on, that''s one of the best parts of ring shopping
 

DiamondsDiamonds

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Date: 2/7/2009 7:01:44 PM
Author: kurenai

Do you guys think 1,25 is small?
1.25 ct. is a large diamond by almost anyone’s standards. If that is the weight that you actually get, you are in good shape.

Good luck!
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
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Date: 2/7/2009 3:41:38 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Clarity grading is based on face up examination at 10X magnifications. A diamond can be IF at 10X but there will definitely be flaws if you go down to 20X 30X magnifications. No diamond is flawless, it is just a definition set by the trade.
I did not know that! It makes sense, I''d just never thought it through I suppose (or considered buying a diamond graded "IF")
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It doesn't matter if we think 1.25 is small, or large, or just right. You can't please everybody, so it's best to try to please yourself.
It should matter if you think 1.25 is too small, or too large, or just right, because you're going to wear it for a very long time, and you should be absolutely happy with it and feel good and confident about it.
 

DiamondsDiamonds

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 2/8/2009 12:14:09 AM
Author: JulieN
It doesn''t matter if we think 1.25 is small, or large, or just right. You can''t please everybody, so it''s best to try to please yourself.
It should matter if you think 1.25 is too small, or too large, or just right, because you''re going to wear it for a very long time, and you should be absolutely happy with it and feel good and confident about it.
Well said, JulieN.
 

kurenai

Rough_Rock
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Thanks for everyone''s input ---- I guess I found you guys a little too late!!!

Just found out that my bf purchased the stone I mentioned above as a surprise ......I didn''t say anything to him as I actually haven''t SEEN the stone yet but does this mean I got a bad diamond?

Is a 3.4 score on HCA mean that the diamond won''t sparkle?

I feel so shallow right now - I do appreciate whatever I get and I know that the most importantv thing is that we are getting married and the diamond is form someone I LOVE but I guess it is appropriate to vent a little on this forum :)

I''m a bit bummed now....
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/8/2009 9:16:28 AM
Author: kurenai
Just found out that my bf purchased the stone I mentioned above as a surprise ......I didn''t say anything to him as I actually haven''t SEEN the stone yet but does this mean I got a bad diamond?


Is a 3.4 score on HCA mean that the diamond won''t sparkle?

I feel so shallow right now - I do appreciate whatever I get and I know that the most importantv thing is that we are getting married and the diamond is form someone I LOVE but I guess it is appropriate to vent a little on this forum :)

I''m a bit bummed now....
Probably just some light leakage but if the angle of the LGF and optical symm is good, it will still be great. Guess you will just have to take a look at it yourself and see if you like it. Take it to an idependent appraiser too, you need to get it insured anyway.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/8/2009 9:16:28 AM
Author: kurenai
Thanks for everyone's input ---- I guess I found you guys a little too late!!!

Just found out that my bf purchased the stone I mentioned above as a surprise ......I didn't say anything to him as I actually haven't SEEN the stone yet but does this mean I got a bad diamond?

Is a 3.4 score on HCA mean that the diamond won't sparkle?

I feel so shallow right now - I do appreciate whatever I get and I know that the most importantv thing is that we are getting married and the diamond is form someone I LOVE but I guess it is appropriate to vent a little on this forum :)

I'm a bit bummed now....
Please don't be bummed. He has bought you a diamond he felt was worthy of you - colourless and IF clarity - beautiful combination. Your diamond scored lower on the HCA because the pavilion angle is a bit steeper and the HCA can penalize for this but it will still sparkle and it is not a bad diamond!! There are various levels of beauty in anything, a diamond does not have to be perfect to be lovely, and because a diamond doesn't have ' perfect' numbers does not mean it will not look good and sparkle, this diamond is a long way from being badly cut! It is so easy to get caught up in the numbers here and particularly with consumers like myself who are seeing perfect images all the time and hold every diamond up to these standards - it is important to remember that there are diamonds which might not quite measure up on paper that are still beautiful - but bear in mind most of the posters answering your questions, myself included are not experts and as such don't have the real life experience with diamonds - especially when a diamond doesn't quite match up on paper the tendency is to try to advise to get another with ' safe' proportions. Your BF has picked you out a lovely and rare diamond which is still well cut and it is going to be far more beautiful than many of the diamonds out there and is trying to make the proposal and engagement as special and memorable for you as possible. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
 
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