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What do you think about posting CS photos on PS in order to ask for feedback BEFORE the decision to

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TravelingGal

Super_Ideal_Rock
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So since I''ve been into colored stones lately, I''ve been thinking about this and wanted to put it out there. Maybe I am overthinking it.

A lot of PS colored stone vendors have periods where they offer stones only to members, and usually these drops have high visibility on PS because they''re announced by a PSer...

What do you think if a PSer buys the stone, takes her own photos and posts them asking, "what do you think? Would you keep it?"

The reason I ask is unlike diamonds, a lot of the stones purchased by us in CS are very easily identifiable. So say someone bought an expensive stone, took pics, and posted them, then got less than favorable reviews. The PSer then decides to return the stone. Is that fair to the dealer, whose sale of that stone might be impacted by a lot of people making negative judgments on the stone?

Just having now seen three pads and making decisions on them without posting the pics first, I wonder about this. I would have really loved PS opinions on all the stones I looked at. But I realized that in the case of colored gems (and as anyone who has attempted knows), the camera often does not capture what the eye sees. People would be judging photos without knowing the conditions in which the photos were taken. Not sure if this is fair to the vendor for a stone I didn''t own (although I guess I technically owned them at the time).

And (overthinking again), I thought if someone posts pics that are less than flattering, it gets negative opinions, and then the (expensive) stone doesn''t sell, would the dealer have justification for some kind of recourse against you?

So what do you think? Are we a consumer forum and it''s fair game to get help? Or is some degree of caution in order?
 

mercoledi

Ideal_Rock
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2,822
Personally, I only post what I own, not a stone that I'm reviewing. I think it's unfair to the vendor for me to spout off my opinions (and photos) of a stone that someone else might love. Colored stones are highly personal in choice the way a RB isn't (to me anyway).

I think if it's a special project, something that you've sourced specially, like LS's sapph, that's a little different from the stones that are listed in the new 'drops' of our favorite vendors. Especially when the consumer is _only_ judging based on photos. Then we at least all have the same data. It's a tough call.


I was wondering how others felt about this myself.

Now, posting vendor pics of a stone that I haven't seen in person yet I think is totally fair, I just fear having it scooped up out from under me.
 

Lady_Disdain

Ideal_Rock
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3,988

That is a tough one.


First of all, I would like to point out that this can work both ways: perhaps a stone might get negative reviews, however, I have noticed that stones sell a lot faster on the sites that are heavily featured on PS and that we tend to call the same vendors for special requests. So this can certainly have a positive impact for quality vendors.


However, the coloured stone world can be a strange place and I know that many dealers and owners would be rather unsettled to have pictures of their expensive, unlisted stones bandied about with full data.


A good dealer/client relationship is very important and I know I would hate to offend my favourite dealers. In your situation, I suppose that transparency is the best way: ask the dealer if they would mind if you posted his pictures/your own pictures on the site to ask or opinions.

 

TravelingGal

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Interesting ladies. I guess the key here would be one''s OWN photos. I think vendor''s pics are fair game and usually those are the ones that are featured here and then sold quickly.
 

LtlFirecracker

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Well, when I first joined here, I did just that. I thought the stones were better than they were, so I was not expecting the mixed opinions I got. I felt pretty bad for the vendor, but at the same time it helped my decision making.

Since I have learned more, I put the stone up after I am 99.9 % sure I am going to keep it. At that point it would take a pretty big problem to send it back. I have not gotten any negative comments about a stone I put up by an online vender after that initial one.

I did put up an aqua with some gray undertones, but it was a B&M vender that I kept un-named.

I think it goes both ways. If someone puts up a top colored stone from you, people are going to start looking at your site. That is good for business. The risk is when a lesser quality stone is put up or if later someone found out there is a problem with it. Often when asking a question about a stone, you may need to put up your own photo to make that point.

I would like to hear some of the vendors opinion on this.
 

coatimundi_org

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Date: 2/27/2009 12:45:48 PM
Author:TravelingGal
Is that fair to the dealer, whose sale of that stone might be impacted by a lot of people making negative judgments on the stone?
Absolutely fair. Vendors are pros, and they should be able to deal. Same as if a stone is passed around irl. Not everyone is susceptible to comments about color etc. on ps.

In many cases, we are parting with a substantial amount of $$--it's perfectly warranted for an individual to question the quality of a stone via their own pics on the web.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 2/27/2009 2:34:59 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 2/27/2009 12:45:48 PM
Author:TravelingGal
Is that fair to the dealer, whose sale of that stone might be impacted by a lot of people making negative judgments on the stone?
Absolutely fair. Vendors are pros, and they should be able to deal. Same as if a stone is passed around irl. Not everyone is susceptible to comments about color etc. on ps.

In many cases, we are parting with a substantial amount of $$--it''s perfectly warranted for an individual to question the quality of a stone.
I don''t see any issue with a stone passed around IRL. You''re actually seeing the stone then. But photos? That''s where I see a potential problem...

But I would have been happy if everyone was kosher with it...would have saved me a bit of angst, lol.
 

coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/27/2009 2:41:06 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Date: 2/27/2009 2:34:59 PM

Author: coatimundi


Absolutely fair. Vendors are pros, and they should be able to deal. Same as if a stone is passed around irl. Not everyone is susceptible to comments about color etc. on ps.


In many cases, we are parting with a substantial amount of $$--it's perfectly warranted for an individual to question the quality of a stone.
I don't see any issue with a stone passed around IRL. You're actually seeing the stone then. But photos? That's where I see a potential problem...


But I would have been happy if everyone was kosher with it...would have saved me a bit of angst, lol.
I see what you're saying about photos, but with our own photos, we are actually sharing what the gem looks like in a myriad of lighting conditions. Helpful imo.

I think this may beg the question--"What is your loyalty to vendors to whom you're giving your hard earned dollar?"


It's always business in my eyes.
 

shaunrice

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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361
What if you posted the pictures without mentioning the vendor? Could you do that? If you were to post, some internal shots of inclusions would really really be helpful too. I take them with my digital camera from my microscope, and they show up pretty well. Color is the tricky part isn''t it?
But surely these guys can judge cut? Most of the ideal rocks on this site are VERY good at judging cuts from what I''ve seen. That''s one thing I''ve learned on here, cut DOES matter in a colored stone lol!
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 2/27/2009 2:48:16 PM
Author: coatimundi


I see what you''re saying about photos, but with our own photos, we are actually sharing what the gem looks like in a myriad of lighting conditions. Helpful imo.

I think this may beg the question--''What is your loyalty to vendors to whom you''re giving your hard earned dollar?''


It''s always business in my eyes.
Yeah, that''s what I would have though too. But the pads I looked at were extremely difficult to capture. The synth was lighter and more salmony in person. The one I have now won''t be photographed true to color at all. I haven''t gotten one picture where it gets the depth of the color - not one. The JW pad photos that I took also looked substantially different from the stock photo. Enough that I found that I could not post them in good conscience.

I''m not loyal to any vendor, personally. I don''t know about the operations of a lot of the CS vendors, but it seems that a lot of them are very small operations and I would hate to be the one that stops the sale of an expensive stone in its tracks. I don''t think this happens on CS often, if at all, and I agree that normally posting photos is very helpful and probably wouldn''t stop a sale. Plus if the regular photos were that different from the stock photo, people should know about it.
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
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Unless they shipped that to you without your credit card, you do own it. The fact that you have a specified return evaluation period is immaterial IMO. Until you send it back and your credit card is refunded, what you do in regard to showing it to neighbors, coworkers, relatives, appraisers, and internet strangers is your own business. That''s why they call it an evaluation period. It doesn''t say evaluated only by you
 

neatfreak

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Date: 2/27/2009 2:51:27 PM
Author: shaunrice
What if you posted the pictures without mentioning the vendor? Could you do that? If you were to post, some internal shots of inclusions would really really be helpful too. I take them with my digital camera from my microscope, and they show up pretty well. Color is the tricky part isn't it?
But surely these guys can judge cut? Most of the ideal rocks on this site are VERY good at judging cuts from what I've seen. That's one thing I've learned on here, cut DOES matter in a colored stone lol!
Theoretically you could but many of the vendors have a specific style of photography, cutting, etc. that makes the stone easily identifiable.
 

coatimundi_org

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Date: 2/27/2009 2:59:24 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Date: 2/27/2009 2:48:16 PM

Author: coatimundi



I see what you're saying about photos, but with our own photos, we are actually sharing what the gem looks like in a myriad of lighting conditions. Helpful imo.


I think this may beg the question--'What is your loyalty to vendors to whom you're giving your hard earned dollar?'



It's always business in my eyes.
Yeah, that's what I would have though too. But the pads I looked at were extremely difficult to capture. The synth was lighter and more salmony in person. The one I have now won't be photographed true to color at all. I haven't gotten one picture where it gets the depth of the color - not one. The JW pad photos that I took also looked substantially different from the stock photo. Enough that I found that I could not post them in good conscience.


I'm not loyal to any vendor, personally. I don't know about the operations of a lot of the CS vendors, but it seems that a lot of them are very small operations and I would hate to be the one that stops the sale of an expensive stone in its tracks. I don't think this happens on CS often, if at all, and I agree that normally posting photos is very helpful and probably wouldn't stop a sale. Plus if the regular photos were that different from the stock photo, people should know about it.
Yah, I'm painfully aware of how difficult colored stones are to photograph, but I still do not see any harm in sharing your own photos of a stone you are considering on ps.

Ditto PP.


Part of being a gem vendor (large or small) in the 21st century is dealing with consumer forums like PS. Just part of the deal--imo.
 

LD

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Date: 2/27/2009 2:59:48 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Unless they shipped that to you without your credit card, you do own it. The fact that you have a specified return evaluation period is immaterial IMO. Until you send it back and your credit card is refunded, what you do in regard to showing it to neighbors, coworkers, relatives, appraisers, and internet strangers is your own business. That''s why they call it an evaluation period. It doesn''t say evaluated only by you
Ditto

Going one step further - the amount of returns/negative reviews are far less than the amount of keepers/positive comments.

Personally, if I''m not sure I''d rather enlist the help of others. In fact, I''ve just done exactly that with a set of tiny black diamond rings. I wasn''t sure whether they suited me or not so I asked for opinions. As it happens a few days of owning them has made up my mind (and I guess it was a 50/50 split on here as to whether to keep or send back). However, I didn''t identify the vendor. Even if I had, I don''t see that as a problem. What do they say? Even negative publicity is publicity!
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 2/27/2009 3:13:18 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 2/27/2009 2:59:48 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Unless they shipped that to you without your credit card, you do own it. The fact that you have a specified return evaluation period is immaterial IMO. Until you send it back and your credit card is refunded, what you do in regard to showing it to neighbors, coworkers, relatives, appraisers, and internet strangers is your own business. That''s why they call it an evaluation period. It doesn''t say evaluated only by you
Ditto

Going one step further - the amount of returns/negative reviews are far less than the amount of keepers/positive comments.

Personally, if I''m not sure I''d rather enlist the help of others. In fact, I''ve just done exactly that with a set of tiny black diamond rings. I wasn''t sure whether they suited me or not so I asked for opinions. As it happens a few days of owning them has made up my mind (and I guess it was a 50/50 split on here as to whether to keep or send back). However, I didn''t identify the vendor. Even if I had, I don''t see that as a problem. What do they say? Even negative publicity is publicity!
I agree that I *DO* technically own it. OK, here''s another example.

With all this pad, alexandrite, real or fake dilemma, say I post a pic and for whatever reason, it''s "telling". Say everyone says, sorry, that''s not a pad or an alex based on photos. The vendor claims that it is. PSers says that it''s not. No one knows for sure unless it gets certed, and the buyer decides it''s not worth the hassle and sends it back. No one else is interested in the stone afterwards...

Being a forum of consumers (albeit savvy ones), how careful do you need to be when you say from a photo that the stone is not what it appears to be?
 

Kismet

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Date: 2/27/2009 3:18:06 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Date: 2/27/2009 3:13:18 PM

Author: LovingDiamonds


Date: 2/27/2009 2:59:48 PM

Author: purrfectpear

Unless they shipped that to you without your credit card, you do own it. The fact that you have a specified return evaluation period is immaterial IMO. Until you send it back and your credit card is refunded, what you do in regard to showing it to neighbors, coworkers, relatives, appraisers, and internet strangers is your own business. That''s why they call it an evaluation period. It doesn''t say evaluated only by you
Ditto


Going one step further - the amount of returns/negative reviews are far less than the amount of keepers/positive comments.


Personally, if I''m not sure I''d rather enlist the help of others. In fact, I''ve just done exactly that with a set of tiny black diamond rings. I wasn''t sure whether they suited me or not so I asked for opinions. As it happens a few days of owning them has made up my mind (and I guess it was a 50/50 split on here as to whether to keep or send back). However, I didn''t identify the vendor. Even if I had, I don''t see that as a problem. What do they say? Even negative publicity is publicity!
I agree that I *DO* technically own it. OK, here''s another example.


With all this pad, alexandrite, real or fake dilemma, say I post a pic and for whatever reason, it''s ''telling''. Say everyone says, sorry, that''s not a pad or an alex based on photos. The vendor claims that it is. PSers says that it''s not. No one knows for sure unless it gets certed, and the buyer decides it''s not worth the hassle and sends it back. No one else is interested in the stone afterwards...


Being a forum of consumers (albeit savvy ones), how careful do you need to be when you say from a photo that the stone is not what it appears to be?
At that point it would behoove the vendor to get the stone certed. Although it would be very unlikely that anyone on here would say definitively "that is a fake" from just a photo. The internet is a big place and PS people aren''t the vendors only customers.
 

coatimundi_org

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Date: 2/27/2009 3:18:06 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Being a forum of consumers (albeit savvy ones), how careful do you need to be when you say from a photo that the stone is not what it appears to be?

I would not say that a stone was real or synthetic based on a photo, but I would discuss different options. Some people on these boards are careful and some are not. I don't think there is a responsibility there. I think people can say whatever they'd like about a stone, and it's up to the buyer to glean what they can from those opinions.

These vendors don't solely sell to people on PS or other forums. So, I don't think a stone can be completely tainted by pics here.

eta: posted at same time as kismet--and ditto.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 2/27/2009 3:24:20 PM
Author: Kismet


At that point it would behoove the vendor to get the stone certed. Although it would be very unlikely that anyone on here would say definitively ''that is a fake'' from just a photo. The internet is a big place and PS people aren''t the vendors only customers.
Agreed. That would eliminate the issue, wouldn''t it? Which is why I don''t get why vendors don''t cert the more pricey stones to begin with.

Not saying people would say it''s fake. More stuff like, "I don''t see enough pink in that pad to qualify it for pad status" or "that alex is more of a color shift than a change and maybe it''s a color shift garnet instead of a true alex?" Don''t get me wrong, I don''t see anything wrong with saying that, but it would be speculation based on pictures the buyer is choosing to present.

I know, I''m overthinking this.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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opinions are opinions and if someone''s opinion is that a stone doesn''t look natural from pics, is that bad? I would hope the person would give reasons if they in fact did think a stone was a syn.
 

T L

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Date: 2/27/2009 3:29:57 PM
Author: TravelingGal




Date: 2/27/2009 3:24:20 PM
Author: Kismet


At that point it would behoove the vendor to get the stone certed. Although it would be very unlikely that anyone on here would say definitively 'that is a fake' from just a photo. The internet is a big place and PS people aren't the vendors only customers.
Agreed. That would eliminate the issue, wouldn't it? Which is why I don't get why vendors don't cert the more pricey stones to begin with.

Not saying people would say it's fake. More stuff like, 'I don't see enough pink in that pad to qualify it for pad status' or 'that alex is more of a color shift than a change and maybe it's a color shift garnet instead of a true alex?' Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with saying that, but it would be speculation based on pictures the buyer is choosing to present.

I know, I'm overthinking this.
TG,
It would be very remiss if people didn't request opinions on colored gems with photos in this website. I think that's alot of what PS is about, education, and part of that is photo evaluation, even though it does have it's downsides. However, that being said, I typically don't post photos of a gem until I decide to keep it. That's just me, some people do need other opinions though. I sometimes do, but I try to get opinions privately from people I talk to outside of PS if I'm on the fence about a stone. However 99% of the time, if I don't love the stone immediately, it goes right back to the vendor. I think it's only fair to me, as well as the vendor, so he/she can sell it quickly to someone else.

As far as buying a very expensive colored gem like a padparadscha or any fine sapphire, ruby, spinel, emerald, etc. . . you do need to have it sent through it's proper paces by getting a highly reputable lab report. Not only is this the case for valuable colored gems, but I would think even more so in the case of a padparadscha because the color is so speculative. I would want a full lab report stating the origin and the word "padparadscha" on it somewhere.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 2/27/2009 4:04:16 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 2/27/2009 3:29:57 PM
Author: TravelingGal





Date: 2/27/2009 3:24:20 PM
Author: Kismet


At that point it would behoove the vendor to get the stone certed. Although it would be very unlikely that anyone on here would say definitively ''that is a fake'' from just a photo. The internet is a big place and PS people aren''t the vendors only customers.
Agreed. That would eliminate the issue, wouldn''t it? Which is why I don''t get why vendors don''t cert the more pricey stones to begin with.

Not saying people would say it''s fake. More stuff like, ''I don''t see enough pink in that pad to qualify it for pad status'' or ''that alex is more of a color shift than a change and maybe it''s a color shift garnet instead of a true alex?'' Don''t get me wrong, I don''t see anything wrong with saying that, but it would be speculation based on pictures the buyer is choosing to present.

I know, I''m overthinking this.
TG,
It would be very remiss if people didn''t request opinions on colored gems with photos in this website. I think that''s alot of what PS is about, education, and part of that is photo evaluation, even though it does have it''s downsides. However, that being said, I typically don''t post photos of a gem until I decide to keep it. That''s just me, some people do need other opinions though. I sometimes do, but I try to get opinions privately from people I talk to outside of PS if I''m on the fence about a stone. However 99% of the time, if I don''t love the stone immediately, it goes right back to the vendor. I think it''s only fair to me, as well as the vendor, so he/she can sell it quickly to someone else.

As far as buying a very expensive colored gem like a padparadscha or any fine sapphire, ruby, spinel, emerald, etc. . . you do need to have it sent through it''s proper paces by getting a highly reputable lab report. Not only is this the case for valuable colored gems, but I would think even more so in the case of a padparadscha because the color is so speculative. I would want a full lab report stating the origin and the word ''padparadscha'' on it somewhere.
Well, I am glad to hear that. Obviously people do it on the diamond forum all the time, with sometimes the same diamond coming up more than once and ID''d as such, so it probably should be no different in colored stones.

I could have used you guys a couple of months ago!!!
 

FrekeChild

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 14, 2007
Messages
19,456
I don't post pics until I get the stone ordinarily, except in my ering stone case. I have come to realize that when I love a stone, I love that stone, and nothing no one else is going to say is going to make me stop loving it.

If you don't love a stone, and you don't feel it in your gut...then it's probably not right.

Because colored stones are so subjective, I don't think that posting that you don't like a stone after having it in your possession is really a problem. I mean, I adore gray modifiers, but TL doesn't. So if she got a stone, didn't like the gray modifiers so she wants to send it back, but I saw it and wanted it, then it would probably be a good thing for the seller.

Now, in the instance of Pads, if a seller was saying that it was a true Pad, and you paid the pad price for it, got it in person and it's a pure pink, and isn't what you think of a pad at all...that's a stickier situation. I think at that point, getting an appraisal involved is probably the best bet. But I don't know. I don't do the expensive stones, so I have no idea...

As long as you own it, and you've paid for it, I say you're entitled to do what you want with them. Including showing us eye candy!!!!

ETA: I also don't post a picture of a stone from a vendor for fear of getting it snatched away from me too. I'm going through that right now, and I really need to make a decision...
 

LtlFirecracker

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Messages
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I do feel that one of the positives to this forum is that if you don''t know a lot about a colored stone you can put a pic up and get opinions from collectors. I personally don''t know any collectors IRL that could help me out. I think once you learn more, and are more confident in your tastes, other peoples opinions become less important. But I think if you bought the stone, and want an opinion, there is nothing wrong with putting it up here. There are a few people who put stones up here from vendors who wish not to be identified, and have made those wishes known. However, I have never personally had an online vendor say "hey if you post my stone, don''t tell them it was from me."
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
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I don''t see any problem with posting a stone and asking for other opinions on it. I think as a cutter, the feed back is very useful. It helps figure out what people are looking for in both cutting style and gemstone material. If negative comments by other Pricescoper''s causes a sale to be lost, I don''t think that is going to make or break anyone, and the constructive criticism would be worth it.
 

icekid

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Messages
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I think folks should be able to ask for opinions, too! It''s all part of the PS education bit. It seems as time goes on and we become more experienced, most of us stop doing that. But just think of how many newbies we''ve steered away from treated ebay stones and the like. Plus it''s fun to live vicariously through someone going through the buying process
 

T L

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Date: 3/1/2009 1:55:50 PM
Author: icekid
I think folks should be able to ask for opinions, too! It's all part of the PS education bit. It seems as time goes on and we become more experienced, most of us stop doing that. But just think of how many newbies we've steered away from treated ebay stones and the like. Plus it's fun to live vicariously through someone going through the buying process
Isn't that the truth. I just get sad when we hear about people buying gems, but we don't get any pictures from those people.
 

Brown.Eyed.Girl

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Messages
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Date: 3/1/2009 8:03:40 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Date: 3/1/2009 1:55:50 PM

Author: icekid

I think folks should be able to ask for opinions, too! It''s all part of the PS education bit. It seems as time goes on and we become more experienced, most of us stop doing that. But just think of how many newbies we''ve steered away from treated ebay stones and the like. Plus it''s fun to live vicariously through someone going through the buying process
Isn''t that the truth. I just get sad when we hear about people buying gems, but we don''t get any pictures from those people.
Ditto! I feel deprived....
 

LembeckGems

Rough_Rock
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25
If anyone would like to use one of my images (for non-biz purposes) please do.


Every Gem Has a Destiny
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 2/28/2009 11:04:55 PM
Author: PrecisionGem
I don''t see any problem with posting a stone and asking for other opinions on it. I think as a cutter, the feed back is very useful. It helps figure out what people are looking for in both cutting style and gemstone material. If negative comments by other Pricescoper''s causes a sale to be lost, I don''t think that is going to make or break anyone, and the constructive criticism would be worth it.
Even if it''s not your photo?
 

chrono

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Date: 3/1/2009 8:03:40 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 3/1/2009 1:55:50 PM
Author: icekid
I think folks should be able to ask for opinions, too! It''s all part of the PS education bit. It seems as time goes on and we become more experienced, most of us stop doing that. But just think of how many newbies we''ve steered away from treated ebay stones and the like. Plus it''s fun to live vicariously through someone going through the buying process
Isn''t that the truth. I just get sad when we hear about people buying gems, but we don''t get any pictures from those people.
Did I hear someone talking about me?
 
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