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What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19
- Thread starter Calliecake
- Start date
voce
Ideal_Rock
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If we go on economic lockdown for long enough, then at some point people will start to do that. It's just uncertain at what point people will "break", and violence and instability would ensue.
If we continue the lockdown through May or June, my guess is things might not get to that point. But DF is right in that no one can know for certain when the right time is to open the economy again.
My opinion is my opinion. Everybody else is entitled to their own opinion, but we should all learn to recognize all anybody can do is weigh their expectations, and opinion is different from fact. Trump's expectations are different from those of a lot of people, but all we can do right now is act on OUR expectations and do what is best for us under our expectations, since there is no objective knowledge that if we do A, then B is sure to follow. There's risks all around.
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With Cuomo as Vice. Double please and thank you!!!
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I do get that the US are a huge country and much less densely populated than most of Europe.
I'm going by deaths only, since testing is so scarce in the US atm,
If you only take Italy, they have had a total of 20 086 deaths as of today. Italy has a great health care system. It has about 60 million inhabitants.
I have tried to gather information on why they have fared so horribly.
While I agree with @arkieb1 on a lot of topics generally, they seem not to have done such an abysmal job.
They had one undetected infection pool that festered for about two weeks.
They were among the first to be hit, so shutdown was not immediate. No other country outside Asia saw that potential at that point, though.
We have very very very strict measures in France. We are still hit hard. I think it's really the border with Italy and the densely populated Paris region.
I think no politician in a democracy could have ordered a total lockdown much earlier. Unfortunately humans need to feel the horrible consequences before we act.
Australia and NZ were behind, time wise , and have bad huge geographical advantage. They were warned by the European example and acted fast. No borders with infection hearths helps too.
The states had the same warning. Geographically not as far away, but still...
There were 10 834 deaths in New York alone. I don't know how they count exactly on world-o-meter. So I don't know on how many inhabitants you want to count those deaths. Let's generously say 10 million? 20 million for the state?
Time-wise NY is a good three weeks behind Italy. They have already twice as many deaths per capita than Italy.
That is a lot worse than Italy.
That is AFTER the facts for Europe were known.
The lack of management by the potus is frankly criminal.
I love my fellow American PSers and have hesitated to write this, because I don't want to spread panic or irrational fear. But I am shocked that many people in the US don't seem to see that it only takes one undetected spread in a densely populated state and everyone is in DEEP trouble.
Reopening the economy sounds good. But think about it: restaurants for instance are infection accelerators. Cafés even worse. You are at a table / counter where someone else was just minutes ago, then touch everything. Lots of people around.
If it's legally possible, people will do it.
I don't think it's a good idea for the US atm.
Or it will take one really good plan!!!
I'd rather think about a better program to help small and medium enterprises and the middle class.
That Corona $ - check sounds good to many. It's not sustainable, though. To me it sounds like Trump wanting o buy votes .
I have no party affiliation in the US.
That's what the whole mess looks like from the outside.
I hope and pray for the best. I'm generally calm about this whole pandemic.
But when someone is actively stupid and worsening the situation by not listening to the medical experts it makes me very angry.
I'm going by deaths only, since testing is so scarce in the US atm,
If you only take Italy, they have had a total of 20 086 deaths as of today. Italy has a great health care system. It has about 60 million inhabitants.
I have tried to gather information on why they have fared so horribly.
While I agree with @arkieb1 on a lot of topics generally, they seem not to have done such an abysmal job.
They had one undetected infection pool that festered for about two weeks.
They were among the first to be hit, so shutdown was not immediate. No other country outside Asia saw that potential at that point, though.
We have very very very strict measures in France. We are still hit hard. I think it's really the border with Italy and the densely populated Paris region.
I think no politician in a democracy could have ordered a total lockdown much earlier. Unfortunately humans need to feel the horrible consequences before we act.
Australia and NZ were behind, time wise , and have bad huge geographical advantage. They were warned by the European example and acted fast. No borders with infection hearths helps too.
The states had the same warning. Geographically not as far away, but still...
There were 10 834 deaths in New York alone. I don't know how they count exactly on world-o-meter. So I don't know on how many inhabitants you want to count those deaths. Let's generously say 10 million? 20 million for the state?
Time-wise NY is a good three weeks behind Italy. They have already twice as many deaths per capita than Italy.
That is a lot worse than Italy.
That is AFTER the facts for Europe were known.
The lack of management by the potus is frankly criminal.
I love my fellow American PSers and have hesitated to write this, because I don't want to spread panic or irrational fear. But I am shocked that many people in the US don't seem to see that it only takes one undetected spread in a densely populated state and everyone is in DEEP trouble.
Reopening the economy sounds good. But think about it: restaurants for instance are infection accelerators. Cafés even worse. You are at a table / counter where someone else was just minutes ago, then touch everything. Lots of people around.
If it's legally possible, people will do it.
I don't think it's a good idea for the US atm.
Or it will take one really good plan!!!
I'd rather think about a better program to help small and medium enterprises and the middle class.
That Corona $ - check sounds good to many. It's not sustainable, though. To me it sounds like Trump wanting o buy votes .
I have no party affiliation in the US.
That's what the whole mess looks like from the outside.
I hope and pray for the best. I'm generally calm about this whole pandemic.
But when someone is actively stupid and worsening the situation by not listening to the medical experts it makes me very angry.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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It's possible we'll never get reliable testing on a large scale; what then? Economic lockdown of indefinite duration?
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This is interesting but still shows how Trump missed the boat and we are suffering because of it. I know rechristen the Covid19 the ChineseHidVirusandscrewedtheworld virus.
www.foxnews.com
State Department leaked cables renew theories on origin of coronavirus
A Chinese laboratory at the center of new theories about how the coronavirus pandemic started was the subject of multiple urgent warnings inside the U.S. State Department two years ago, according to a new report.
www.foxnews.com
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Basically we could start with states with less virus and work our way up, like Red in Idaho I think, they have barely any ill people and one death last I looked, could be more now..
The world will be changed and the US especially.. small towns that have been disappearing may just up and close.
The world will be changed and the US especially.. small towns that have been disappearing may just up and close.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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This is interesting but still shows how Trump missed the boat and we are suffering because of it. I know rechristen the Covid19 the ChineseHidVirusandscrewedtheworld virus.
State Department leaked cables renew theories on origin of coronavirus
A Chinese laboratory at the center of new theories about how the coronavirus pandemic started was the subject of multiple urgent warnings inside the U.S. State Department two years ago, according to a new report.
Really? How do you think rechristening the COVID-19 as that will NOT result in worldwide racism against Chinese?
The right-wing people have heard this theory for weeks if not months, and you're reacting exactly how they did weeks ago when they were called racists.
I still don't think that every day Chinese people, whether they've emigrated and become citizens elsewhere, or whether they're powerless under the thumb of the Chinese government, deserve the blame that title would confer. How would you like it if someone rechristened syphillus as the American disease? Or colonialsim as white-man symptom?
I deplore all of this finger-pointing and name-calling; just as every day Germans do not deserve to be stereotyped as people responsible for fascism, every day Chinese people do not deserve to be blamed as people who have screwed the world. The fault lies with key individuals in their governments, not the broader populations who are powerless under those regimes.
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Iceland has tested 10% of its population for Covid-19. That is more than any where else has tested. Half of the people who tested positive showed no signs or symptoms. How can we possibly think of reopening without easily accessible testing?
There still is so much unknown about the virus. We need to be listening to our scientists and experts.
There still is so much unknown about the virus. We need to be listening to our scientists and experts.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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We do need to listen to our scientists and experts. Unfortunately, they don't always have the answers, and someone still has to make the call despite uncertainty and not being able to know.
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@kipari , There is a lot of willful ignorance in the US. It makes many of us angry.
The Governor of South Dakota refused to declare a stay in place order until recently. They are now a hot spot for the virus. We are going to begin seeing rural areas hit with Covid-19. Hopefully that will be a wake up call for states who feel a false sense of security. This virus does not stop and state and county lines.
The Governor of South Dakota refused to declare a stay in place order until recently. They are now a hot spot for the virus. We are going to begin seeing rural areas hit with Covid-19. Hopefully that will be a wake up call for states who feel a false sense of security. This virus does not stop and state and county lines.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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@kipari - I don't think we did better because we were "behind" you at all. We are a geographical hotspot for Chinese students and for Chinese travellers, probably more so than the US and Europe.
On a timeline, the Australian Government announced that they were going to quarantine all Australian citizens evacuated from Wuhan and China on Manis Island on the 29th of January (ie well before the disease reached crisis levels in Europe). Our scientists had the virus in our labs and were trying to find a cure and develop vaccines at the beginning of the year as well.
All flights of Chinese students were banned early but you know what they did? Being intelligent they found ways to get around the system, they flew from places like Wuhan to other Asian countries first and then came into Australia via them, it took us a while to figure out, when infected students and travellers showed up on our doorstep, what was going on. At the time ALL Chinese irrespective of how they arrived her were supposed to abide by 14 day stay at home quarantine laws.
We did extensive tracking and tracing early here, the flatmate of one of the students that was infected was asked to self quarantine for 14 days as was anyone the students came into contact with. The guys flatmate decided to go to work, go out to eat, go out to party and disregarded those measures. He spread the virus.....
We then also worked out that travellers from Europe and other regions were also coming here infected so we closed all International flights early and anyone that did come here was placed into quarantine.
Extensive tracking and tracing and enforced stay at home quarantine as much as possible prevented rapid spread.
NSW (one state) made a series of bad judgement calls and allowed a number of passengers off a ship called the Ruby Princess after the captain and the cruise company lied about the health status of their passengers. Again all of those people were asked to self quarantine, many of them did not and spread the virus around Australia.
Yes we are a big Island, but make no mistake, we shut our borders early. We restricted flights early. We introduced social distancing early, when the measures were not tough enough to stop people going out, the Federal Government (the Prime Minister) not the states announced even tougher measures. The states introduced fines. We worked out that people off cruise ships and our citizens being flown back from other countries could not be trusted to self isolate, so they put them ALL in hotels or isolated places where they were watched 24/7 by the police and the military.
We had and have some of the toughest lockdown laws in the Western World. We had massive unemployment before the US did, we introduced stimulus package after stimulus packaged before the US did. The government worked out that to help preserve jobs they would need to pay businesses and companies workers wages to keep them on their books to attempt to reduce job losses here.
We are flattening the curve, reducing the numbers of infections every day, hospitals are not overwhelmed. A minimum number of people have died here compared to the rest of the world.
We still currently have some of the tightest most extreme lockdown measures in the Western World. Yes, I agree Australia and New Zealand are big and small Islands, yes, that helped - but our government and our states (whose boarders between each other btw remain shut) understood what this virus did and responded early enough to avoid massive infection rates and a massive death toll.
Our government chose to save people over our economy which is in worse shape than many other places that do not have extensive lockdowns but we were in a better financial position than America to start with to take on massive amounts of debt. Keep in mind we tax our citizens and businesses at a much higher rate that most other countries too, which in the past helps us pay for state and federal spending.
On a timeline, the Australian Government announced that they were going to quarantine all Australian citizens evacuated from Wuhan and China on Manis Island on the 29th of January (ie well before the disease reached crisis levels in Europe). Our scientists had the virus in our labs and were trying to find a cure and develop vaccines at the beginning of the year as well.
All flights of Chinese students were banned early but you know what they did? Being intelligent they found ways to get around the system, they flew from places like Wuhan to other Asian countries first and then came into Australia via them, it took us a while to figure out, when infected students and travellers showed up on our doorstep, what was going on. At the time ALL Chinese irrespective of how they arrived her were supposed to abide by 14 day stay at home quarantine laws.
We did extensive tracking and tracing early here, the flatmate of one of the students that was infected was asked to self quarantine for 14 days as was anyone the students came into contact with. The guys flatmate decided to go to work, go out to eat, go out to party and disregarded those measures. He spread the virus.....
We then also worked out that travellers from Europe and other regions were also coming here infected so we closed all International flights early and anyone that did come here was placed into quarantine.
Extensive tracking and tracing and enforced stay at home quarantine as much as possible prevented rapid spread.
NSW (one state) made a series of bad judgement calls and allowed a number of passengers off a ship called the Ruby Princess after the captain and the cruise company lied about the health status of their passengers. Again all of those people were asked to self quarantine, many of them did not and spread the virus around Australia.
Yes we are a big Island, but make no mistake, we shut our borders early. We restricted flights early. We introduced social distancing early, when the measures were not tough enough to stop people going out, the Federal Government (the Prime Minister) not the states announced even tougher measures. The states introduced fines. We worked out that people off cruise ships and our citizens being flown back from other countries could not be trusted to self isolate, so they put them ALL in hotels or isolated places where they were watched 24/7 by the police and the military.
We had and have some of the toughest lockdown laws in the Western World. We had massive unemployment before the US did, we introduced stimulus package after stimulus packaged before the US did. The government worked out that to help preserve jobs they would need to pay businesses and companies workers wages to keep them on their books to attempt to reduce job losses here.
We are flattening the curve, reducing the numbers of infections every day, hospitals are not overwhelmed. A minimum number of people have died here compared to the rest of the world.
We still currently have some of the tightest most extreme lockdown measures in the Western World. Yes, I agree Australia and New Zealand are big and small Islands, yes, that helped - but our government and our states (whose boarders between each other btw remain shut) understood what this virus did and responded early enough to avoid massive infection rates and a massive death toll.
Our government chose to save people over our economy which is in worse shape than many other places that do not have extensive lockdowns but we were in a better financial position than America to start with to take on massive amounts of debt. Keep in mind we tax our citizens and businesses at a much higher rate that most other countries too, which in the past helps us pay for state and federal spending.
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Anyone else get their stimulus checks direct deposited today?
No, but I had to comment on your new avatar picture. Yummy and delicious!!
voce
Ideal_Rock
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No, but I had to comment on your new avatar picture. Yummy and delicious!!
Aww thanks Slick1, playing around with my colorful gems is one of my best coping mechanisms to help me not feel panic in this environment. There's something calming about sorting through melee gems.
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Oh look, Trump has found his newest scapegoat - the WHO:
www.nytimes.com
www.marketwatch.com
@kipari You're dead on about the CV relief fund being a vote grab. A poorly-disguised vote grab.
Coronavirus Live Updates: Trump Halts U.S. Funding of World Health Organization
New York deaths spike as the state releases a revised count, and California explores steps toward reopening. The Treasury Department says it has reached a deal on an airline bailout.
Trump says U.S. will stop funding World Health Organization
President Donald Trump on Tuesday said he is directing his administration to halt U.S. funding of the World Health Organization, as he accused the WHO of...
www.marketwatch.com
@kipari You're dead on about the CV relief fund being a vote grab. A poorly-disguised vote grab.
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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Banks are allowed to seize those checks if the recipient is overdrawn. That makes me incredibly angry for the thousands of desperate people this will effect.
www.forbes.com
Your Stimulus Check Could Be Seized By Your Own Bank
Congress did not exempt the CARES Act stimulus checks from private debt collection and Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Citibank, and U.S. Bank have not ruled out using payments to offset outstanding debts...
www.forbes.com
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@voce said:
Really? How do you think rechristening the COVID-19 as that will NOT result in worldwide racism against Chinese?
Aw I was only kidding! But if we find out that the Chinese developed this virus and somehow someone at the lab contracted it and spread it around I do think that the Chinese should somehow have to bear the brunt of being ostracized and cut off somehow.
The right-wing people have heard this theory for weeks if not months, and you're reacting exactly how they did weeks ago when they were called racists.
Again, I was just kidding.. you know, lightening up! Seriously JOKING..
I still don't think that every day Chinese people, whether they've emigrated and become citizens elsewhere, or whether they're powerless under the thumb of the Chinese government, deserve the blame that title would confer. How would you like it if someone rechristened syphillus as the American disease? Or colonialsim as white-man symptom?
I think syphilis has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years.
www.news-medical.net
I don't know anything about colonialism truthfully, but I will read. My brief thinking is it involved India and England?
I deplore all of this finger-pointing and name-calling; just as every day Germans do not deserve to be stereotyped as people responsible for fascism, every day Chinese people do not deserve to be blamed as people who have screwed the world. The fault lies with key individuals in their governments, not the broader populations who are powerless under those regimes.
I think you go a tad too far for me, I don't think German's today have anything to do with fascism, (which I know is different than socialism). Every day Chinese should of course not be blamed for their communist leaders, okay about the broader populations etc.. I would hate to be blamed for Trump's mistakes.
Really? How do you think rechristening the COVID-19 as that will NOT result in worldwide racism against Chinese?
Aw I was only kidding! But if we find out that the Chinese developed this virus and somehow someone at the lab contracted it and spread it around I do think that the Chinese should somehow have to bear the brunt of being ostracized and cut off somehow.
The right-wing people have heard this theory for weeks if not months, and you're reacting exactly how they did weeks ago when they were called racists.
Again, I was just kidding.. you know, lightening up!
Seriously JOKING.. I still don't think that every day Chinese people, whether they've emigrated and become citizens elsewhere, or whether they're powerless under the thumb of the Chinese government, deserve the blame that title would confer. How would you like it if someone rechristened syphillus as the American disease? Or colonialsim as white-man symptom?
I think syphilis has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Syphilis History
History has suggested that syphilis is a disease of early times. The disease might have been prevalent among the indigenous peoples of the Americas before Europeans travelled to and from the New World.
www.news-medical.net
I don't know anything about colonialism truthfully, but I will read. My brief thinking is it involved India and England?
I deplore all of this finger-pointing and name-calling; just as every day Germans do not deserve to be stereotyped as people responsible for fascism, every day Chinese people do not deserve to be blamed as people who have screwed the world. The fault lies with key individuals in their governments, not the broader populations who are powerless under those regimes.
I think you go a tad too far for me, I don't think German's today have anything to do with fascism, (which I know is different than socialism). Every day Chinese should of course not be blamed for their communist leaders, okay about the broader populations etc.. I would hate to be blamed for Trump's mistakes.
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We did! we are going to use it to pay our taxes. Do you know if it's going to be charged as income when we do our 2020 taxes like Reagan's 50$ I got back in the day? I hope not. But my crazy brother got 100.00$ more in food stamps and the money and he's in heaven.. Glad for him.
Anyone else get their stimulus checks direct deposited today?
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Schools are an interesting dilemma for Australia right now.
Our PM is very stressed about the kids missing schools and teachers need to be protected (rightly so).
There are children who simply cannot and will not be taught at home though so I can see why the government doesn't want to keep schools closed forever.
The home schooling model works well only if you've got parents who are on the ball, understand how kids learn and know how to teach.
Our PM is very stressed about the kids missing schools and teachers need to be protected (rightly so).
There are children who simply cannot and will not be taught at home though so I can see why the government doesn't want to keep schools closed forever.
The home schooling model works well only if you've got parents who are on the ball, understand how kids learn and know how to teach.
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@Tekate, my understanding is that the stimulus money will be accounted for as a credit on your taxes You are just getting that credit in advance.
ItsMainelyYou
Ideal_Rock
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Also, you will not have to pay back any part of the stimulus.
voce
Ideal_Rock
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Sorry, Kate, I completely misunderstood you and didn't realize you were joking. I know you're a good person, it's just I misread the tone and got offended, taking your words seriously and thinking that you were overreacting.@voce said:
Really? How do you think rechristening the COVID-19 as that will NOT result in worldwide racism against Chinese?
Aw I was only kidding! But if we find out that the Chinese developed this virus and somehow someone at the lab contracted it and spread it around I do think that the Chinese should somehow have to bear the brunt of being ostracized and cut off somehow.
The right-wing people have heard this theory for weeks if not months, and you're reacting exactly how they did weeks ago when they were called racists.
Again, I was just kidding.. you know, lightening up!
I still don't think that every day Chinese people, whether they've emigrated and become citizens elsewhere, or whether they're powerless under the thumb of the Chinese government, deserve the blame that title would confer. How would you like it if someone rechristened syphillus as the American disease? Or colonialsim as white-man symptom?
I think syphilis has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Syphilis History
History has suggested that syphilis is a disease of early times. The disease might have been prevalent among the indigenous peoples of the Americas before Europeans travelled to and from the New World.
I don't know anything about colonialism truthfully, but I will read. My brief thinking is it involved India and England?
I deplore all of this finger-pointing and name-calling; just as every day Germans do not deserve to be stereotyped as people responsible for fascism, every day Chinese people do not deserve to be blamed as people who have screwed the world. The fault lies with key individuals in their governments, not the broader populations who are powerless under those regimes.
I think you go a tad too far for me, I don't think German's today have anything to do with fascism, (which I know is different than socialism). Every day Chinese should of course not be blamed for their communist leaders, okay about the broader populations etc.. I would hate to be blamed for Trump's mistakes.
No, it doesn't count as income on the 2020 taxes. I read that from Intuit, a company that writes accounting software. Enjoy!
Which of these simple, and dare I say objective, statements do you question as facts or need help to verify?
N.Y. did get ventilators, thousands of ventilators, though not as many as requested.
They got temporary hospital facilities and staff to run them. (Including Javits Center which is now underutilized....freeing up extra medical personnel to be utilized in the standing hospital facilities)
They got a huge hospital ship (Now taking Covid patients although that was not the original intent/purpose)
Cuomo and some other governors asked for more than could be supplied. (The total requests exceeded the total supply in the national stockpile...it's basic math)
Still other governors asked for more reasonable amounts and received closer to or all of their requests. Florida, for example.
The shortage isn’t in NY or even the US...it’s global.
Cuomo was warned years ago that his state was lacking ventilators and equipment to handle just this situation and he did little to remedy that situation.
The federal government was similarly unprepared.
It is unfortunate that some kids do not have the support to do remote learning even in school districts that have it set up well. Perhaps resources can be dedicated to helping those kids when school starts back up in the fall or everyone gets a few weeks of intensive review of what would have been covered at the end of the previous year.
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Yes, we have the largest % of foreign students, mostly chinese, in the world.
But interestingly the very first shopping centre to be devoid of people in Melbourne (population 5M) was Box Hill which is very much a chinese centre. The Chinese residents took this way more seriously at first than the dull Aussies.
My calculations based on 88 more cases resolved than new means we will be at or very close to zero new infections around 16th May.
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Dude, scientists with far more degrees than me cannot determine how it started. The Chinese authorities may not know how it actually started, has that occurred to you? We had one of these originate in Australia 15 mins away from where I live a few years ago, far more deadly than COVID - 19 but luckily for mankind far far less contagious. It's called the "Hendra Virus" look it up. It started with Bats that pooped, horsed ate grass or material with infected Bat poop and got critically ill and then gave it to humans. Most of the humans that got infected died a more horrible death than COVID - 19.
So if the Aussie example is anything to go by, it's a myth that all these viruses start with Chinese eating dogs, cats and other animals.
How did coronavirus start and where did it come from? Was it really Wuhan’s animal market?
It’s likely Covid-19 originated in bats, scientists say. But did it then spread to pangolins and humans?www.theguardian.com
I also want to add that when my husband had a job that required a lot of travel we were served the local delicacy in Vanuatu which happened to be flying fox or Bat which we both wanted to be polite and tried. Bats are riddled with really nasty diseases every vet and animal expert knows that. The point is it's also a myth that just Chinese eat "other" animals, so does much of the non Western population....
Exactly. The people who spend their entire careers studying pandemics caused by zoonotic disease are very clear that these such events can happen ANYWHERE, and will happen all over again, more frequently, and more severely, because there are too many human beings and we're encroaching too far into wildlife habitats all over the planet. We've become an invasive species who haven't been the least bit responsible with our numbers or our management of environment and resources, and now we're really starting to pay the price, as a species.
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That doesn't need to happen if the people who are doing OK financially help those who are struggling. Everyone who is not struggling financially - and especially the uberwealthy - have an obligation during a time like this, when literally millions of lives are on the line, to give up some to help those without. Period. I'm not interested in anyone saying, "But I earned it! They don't deserve it! They must have been lazy if they're poor! blah, blah, blah...." Not now. Not in the middle of this. Not when millions of deaths could be prevented if people would just freaking share. Not during a global crisis of these proportions.
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Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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