What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[Dee*Jay]

@Dee*Jay you might be glad to know that Gov Little extended the stay at home order this morning until April 30. Hope your momma is safe.

@Wink he mentioned jewelers doing curbside? How can that happen unless it's maybe a repair?

Thanks for thinking of me -- and my mother -- Red! She's doing well (so far) and fingers crossed that continues to be the case. Her big problem of the moment involves a bear that figured out how to get into the freezer on her back porch. Now she's sleeping on the living room sofa with a gun beside her. No bear is going to rob her twice and get away with it.

Hope all is good with you and yours too!!!

 

[redwood66]

Thanks for thinking of me -- and my mother -- Red! She's doing well (so far) and fingers crossed that continues to be the case. Her big problem of the moment involves a bear that figured out how to get into the freezer on her back porch. Now she's sleeping on the living room sofa with a gun beside her. No bear is going to rob her twice and get away with it.

Hope all is good with you and yours too!!!

Ooh bad bear. They are waking up hungry!

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Just saw the video.....wow

That said given the population and economic situation in India better to have these people whacked than them all dead in body bags.

The idiots who were cavorting around Bondi Beach in Sydney deserved to be whacked too.

Same with those idiots throwing dinner and house parties. It's not like we haven't been told repeatedly not to do it.

Unfortunately the migrant workers in India are actually starving to death in some places. So for them it seems to be body bag either way. Which is truly truly horrible.

I traveled in India. It's breathtakingly beautiful, culturally rich, refined and at the same time the absolute disregard for individual lives is very very hard to take.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

@kipari are your transmissions community transmissions?

Are people sneaking into the country???

I really wonder why it's not working so well.

We had one very early super spreader event in the east of the country. Like in Korea it was an evangelical church mega meeting. That's how things went out of control in that area. One person infecting thousands over a weekend before that person had any symptoms. And then it's too late already. People went home. When the news hit that there was Covid involved (following Wednesday or Thursday) , the people who'd had gone about their business symptom free but contagious had already infected their own chains of infection. It needs only one such event and it becomes community transmission fast and irreversibly.

 

[yssie]

Just saw the video.....wow

That said given the population and economic situation in India better to have these people whacked than them all dead in body bags.

The idiots who were cavorting around Bondi Beach in Sydney deserved to be whacked too.

Same with those idiots throwing dinner and house parties. It's not like we haven't been told repeatedly not to do it.

Ditto. The west and parts of the east are so, so different.

I went to school in India for six months - I was 8. Very young. I’d been in the NZ school system until then.

One day I didn’t do my homework. My teacher whacked me on the back of the hand four times with her ruler - one for each missing module. It stung and I exploded - “you can’t hit me! You’re not allowed to touch me! I’ll tell my mummy and daddy!” My classmates were flabbergasted. My teacher kept a straight face and calmly told me to sit down and be quiet. Later that evening my aunt told me the school had called, and that I’d bloody well better do my homework from now on.

The bruise faded after a couple days. I did my homework religiously for the next six months.

There are lines that shouldn’t be crossed if one wants to call oneself human. For me, awful as it was, this didn’t cross that line. I’ll bet those communities have better compliance than any US city ever will - and for them compliance is the only way to avoid mass graves

 

[AGBF]

Ditto. The west and parts of the east are so, so different.

I went to school in India for six months - I was 8. Very young. I’d been in the NZ school system until then.

One day I didn’t do my homework. My teacher whacked me on the back of the hand four times with her ruler - one for each missing module. It stung and I exploded - “you can’t hit me! You’re not allowed to touch me! I’ll tell my mummy and daddy!” My classmates were flabbergasted. My teacher kept a straight face and calmly told me to sit down and be quiet. Later that evening my aunt told me the school had called, and that I’d bloody well better do my homework from now on.

The bruise faded after a couple days. I did my homework religiously for the next six months.

There are lines that shouldn’t be crossed if one wants to call oneself human. For me, awful as it was, this didn’t cross that line. I’ll bet those communities have better compliance than any US city ever will - and for them compliance is the only way to avoid mass graves

The story you told could have been here in the West, in fact in my state of Connecticut, if you went back 50 to 100 years.

I realize that the societies are vastly different, but the way that children were expected to behave and the way that they were "disciplined" both at school and at home was not very different from the example you gave and what my mother experienced. And my contemporaries in Catholic schools were rapped on the knuckles with rulers when I was growing up.

 

[1ofakind]

The story you told could have been here in the West, in fact in my state of Connecticut, if you went back 50 to 100 years.

I realize that the societies are vastly different, but the way that children were expected to behave and the way that they were "disciplined" both at school and at home was not very different from the example you gave and what my mother experienced. And my contemporaries in Catholic schools were rapped on the knuckles with rulers when I was growing up.

My mom had a teacher who had very good aim and threw black walnuts at students. Ah, the good old days.

 

[Calliecake]

Trump is threatening to unilaterally adjourn Congress if it doesn't approve his nominations.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@voce early on (I forget what month) our government took the attitude of "Well even though it's not officially a pandemic, we think it's shady so buckle yourselves in kids, we're going to be careful"

WHO criticised our government for inciting panic. Especially when they started banning international students from China.

In hindsight we could have been even stricter and if we'd sat around and listened to WHO more would be dead and we wouldn't be where we are today.

Shady as heck. They were complicit in the cover up as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Trump is threatening to unilaterally adjourn Congress if it doesn't approve his nominations.

Gone full King Charles, has he? Well, he might want to read how that turned out.

 

[voce]

@voce early on (I forget what month) our government took the attitude of "Well even though it's not officially a pandemic, we think it's shady so buckle yourselves in kids, we're going to be careful"

WHO criticised our government for inciting panic. Especially when they started banning international students from China.

In hindsight we could have been even stricter and if we'd sat around and listened to WHO more would be dead and we wouldn't be where we are today.

Shady as heck. They were complicit in the cover up as far as I'm concerned.

Good to know. I think it would've been January or February. I think US media was focused on impeachment and then the Democratic primaries, so I didn't pay very close attention to China or WTO back then.

 

[1ofakind]

Good to know. I think it would've been January or February. I think US media was focused on impeachment and then the Democratic primaries, so I didn't pay very close attention to China or WTO back then.

I recall hearing about it as a very small sideline through impeachment...After seeing an interview I think with Tom Cotton raising alarm bells I found a story on BBC saying there was no evidence of human to human transmission...as stated by the WHO who I think had a team in China by then. Ok, so some people exposed to the market are sick but it would fizzle quickly if that was true. This would have been mid-late January...I'd have to go back to try and find the story. Very soon after stories were leaking out of Wuhan that residents were on lockdown...literally being locked into their homes/apartments in some cases. That kind of contradiction should have been a HUGE red flag to everyone.
But you are right in that it was not mentioned much in the US media...they had other priorities. My curiosity was piqued and I went looking for more info. Still it was difficult to see how it was all going to come together and how bad it would get.

 

[AGBF]

I think you may have forgotten that he doesn't read.

Gone full King Charles, has he? Well, he might want to read how that turned out.

 

[Matata]

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Tekate What if after every statement I said something like “trump is a fat orange troll”, “Trump is an idiot and it’s all his fault” “Trump is an incompetent fool who can’t find his backside with both hands”. Try that and see if it works for you.

Then you'll receive at least 100 likes from the left wingers here. .. FYI, 91% of the members here are Trump bashers.

 

[arkieb1]

@voce early on (I forget what month) our government took the attitude of "Well even though it's not officially a pandemic, we think it's shady so buckle yourselves in kids, we're going to be careful"

WHO criticised our government for inciting panic. Especially when they started banning international students from China.

In hindsight we could have been even stricter and if we'd sat around and listened to WHO more would be dead and we wouldn't be where we are today.

Shady as heck. They were complicit in the cover up as far as I'm concerned.

Yes this was exactly the point I was making badly to @kipari and @voce - Australia and New Zealand didn't have these chances for super spreader events that Europe and the US did because our Government was paying attention to this at the end of last year and beginning of this year, media states the first case of COVID -19 was officially reported by the WHO office in Wuhan in December 31 last year. I think any country spying on China would have been aware of it then, or beforehand. The WHO announced it as a "public concern" globally on January the 30th.

Australia was already taking measures to restrict flights and Chinese students before the end of January. Europe and the US were not even comprehending how bad this could possibly be until around March so yes being a huge Island with no borders helped us, but I think having a Government that took this thing really seriously early on is one of the key factors that saved us from a super spreader event, and massive infection numbers, that is what I meant when I said we were not behind you in the infection/reaction timeline we were in front of the potential threat of the disease before other countries were....

Countries that took the threat less seriously at the start of this year, or believe it wasn't that bad or it was a Asian problem that wouldn't have a huge impact upon them are now the countries faring the worst with infection rates.

 

[arkieb1]

Agree with you, @arkieb1 ,

Those two go together too closely. In Germany they knew every single infection chain for a long time. But people traveled and than the community spread began.

I just looked at the numbers on the World Odometer thing (it isn't always exactly accurate but for a general idea).

On it, Germany has 134,753 people listed as infected and 3,804 deaths
Italy by comparison has 165,155 people listed as infected and 21,645 deaths
France has 147,863 people listed as infected and 17,167 deaths

We know that Germany started tracking and tracing cases way later than Australia did, but if those numbers are even roughly correct my original opinion that tracking and tracing as many infected people as possible and then not only quarantining them, but everyone in the chain they have possibly come into contact with means not only do you restrict the spread as much as possible, it also means the countries doing it can identify and treat people that potentially have the virus and don't know it or that will go on to develop the virus.

The earlier the treatment, I think the better outcome for patients. Unlike Australia, in Germany tracking and tracing may not have reduced the overall infection numbers (we didn't have as many so it was far easier to contain than in Germany) but what I take from those statistics is that tracking and tracing is still a valuable tool in being able to identify/detect cases earlier and therefore treat them earlier.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes, @Dancing Fire is correct when he says that over and over again, I believe that China has a large amount of culpability on what has happened, they covered up what was going on there and the extent of the problem. Chinese authorities are directly to blame for allowing the infection/disease to spread elsewhere.

You agree with me? are you feeling ok?. Do you need to go see a Dr.?...

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I just looked at the numbers on the World Odometer thing (it isn't always exactly accurate but for a general idea).

On it, Germany has 134,753 people listed as infected and 3,804 deaths
Italy by comparison has 165,155 people listed as infected and 21,645 deaths
France has 147,863 people listed as infected and 17,167 deaths

We know that Germany started tracking and tracing cases way later than Australia did, but if those numbers are even roughly correct my original opinion that tracking and tracing as many infected people as possible and then not only quarantining them, but everyone in the chain they have possibly come into contact with means not only do you restrict the spread as much as possible, it also means the countries doing it can identify and treat people that potentially have the virus and don't know it or that will go on to develop the virus.

The earlier the treatment, I think the better outcome for patients. Unlike Australia, in Germany tracking and tracing may not have reduced the overall infection numbers (we didn't have as many so it was far easier to contain than in Germany) but what I take from those statistics is that tracking and tracing is still a valuable tool in being able to identify/detect cases earlier and therefore treat them earlier.

This is not completely accurate. The tracking and tracing in Germany began with patient zero and was effective as long as cases were coming from China and Italy hadn't exploded yet.
Patient zero was a Chinese co worker who infected 12 colleagues in a meeting (early January). She was symptom free and felt ill on her way back to China, got tested for CV back in China and everyone she saw was tested, isolated and studied. As were their contacts.
The next big wave of infection came from Italy. They themselves didn't know about that catastrophe in the north. Only their problem in the South was known. People came back from their January holidays and brought back Covid19.
A pediatrician in a hospital and lots of families. Then they spread it nicely because it was carnival.

So yes: political failure. Why not cancel that darn carnival???
Community spread was inevitable unfortunately after that point.

Third big wave was one infection hearth in Austria. People's traveled back to Germany and BAM. Too many to track and test.
Again: political misjudgement. Why was travel not suspended?
Part of it is misjudgement. Part of it lies within the EU. You can't close your border unilaterally like that. And in the case of Austria they wanted everyone OUT ASAP. Plus they have lots of people working /living in neighbouring countries - and they are a transit state. Their own basic supply chain relies on this. . So closing borders was not in their own interested either.

When Italy found out they hadn't noticed that infection , everyone in Germany that came back from there got quarantined and tested. As many were fit and healthy and asymptomatic, that was a bit if a guessing game. If you don't know where to start you can't test everyone.


The really interesting point is the low death rate in Germany compared to total infections and simply compared to the population.

This is valuable information and if one could deduct effective treatments from it, that would be great.

First Germany has the highest number of ICU beds /head . But those aren't even close to full yet. So it's imho not solely the treatment. Many patients don't seek it out.

To me the crucial point is the age of patients.
First it was young working population. Then again young (healthy) families. Then fit skiers.

The infection of patient zero happened early on and got a lot of media coverage.

Vulnerable people self isolated. Since it was so easily traceable that bought precious time. Testing started early. Because one knew it was on the territory.

In France, at that point there were no (known)cases. So no testing. Vulnerable population was not isolated/isolating.

So while I am an avid supporter of all the measures in place, my own humble conclusion is, unfortunately, that a lot of it is also "luck".

Germany got a well documented wake up call early on. Awareness was there. Like in Australia.

With travel bans not doable like on an island state, eventually the virus seeped in nonetheless. Maximum testing and ISOLATION of the most vulnerable did work well.

And no, I'm not advocating only isolation of the vulnerable.

It seems to be accepted by epidemiologists across the board that one will not be able to effectively protect the vulnerable if the general population is infected in too high percentage.

In France infection rates are up. The infected are on average very old. Death toll is very high in spite of a generally good healthcare system.

 

[arkieb1]

@kipari - yes I agree with the age part, Italy is a case in point, the virus killed many elderly people there before they knew what hit them.

@Dancing Fire - it's a scary concept isn't it? We actually agree on something

 

[missy]

@voce early on (I forget what month) our government took the attitude of "Well even though it's not officially a pandemic, we think it's shady so buckle yourselves in kids, we're going to be careful"

WHO criticised our government for inciting panic. Especially when they started banning international students from China.

In hindsight we could have been even stricter and if we'd sat around and listened to WHO more would be dead and we wouldn't be where we are today.

Shady as heck. They were complicit in the cover up as far as I'm concerned.

Completely agree. I hope the USA withholds funds to the WHO. They have so much blood on their hands.

It seems to be accepted by epidemiologists across the board that one will not be able to effectively protect the vulnerable if the general population is infected in too high percentage.

Yes I agree with this wholeheartedly.


Today there is talk by Trump of reopening some states even before May 1.
SMH.

@arkieb1 @Dancing Fire of course the Chinese government is largely culpable for this pandemic. Moving forward I keep praying for a miracle that the USA won't continue making terrible mistakes. Costing more lives than even necessary. IDK what else we can do at the moment. But watch in horror. How can we stop this country (and others perhaps) from reopening too soon with a sound safe plan.

The earlier the treatment, I think the better outcome for patients.

Yes I agree. Sadly in the USA treatment doesn't begin super early and I am not sure if it is because we lack the necessary supply. And how do we get what we need? At this point I am unsure if that is possible.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@missy we are obsessed with our own developments (understandable) so there's not much coverage of your country's issues. Hoping you can give me more information.

What is the plan for the US? Eradication? Suppression? Herd immunity? Survival of the fittest?

Our government is trying for suppression and I think our PM is trying to sell the public on this app that will let them track everyone so we know who we pass by on the street, at the shops and they can pin point where we caught it, if we catch it. They also want to get their testing up.

 

[missy]

@missy we are obsessed with our own developments (understandable) so there's not much coverage of your country's issues. Hoping you can give me more information.

What is the plan for the US? Eradication? Suppression? Herd immunity? Survival of the fittest?

Our government is trying for suppression and I think our PM is trying to sell the public on this app that will let them track everyone so we know who we pass by on the street, at the shops and they can pin point where we caught it, if we catch it. They also want to get their testing up.

Good question. So far we are quarantining but the extent varies wildly between states. Some stricter than others and most of it not enforced.

We want to increase testing as well. But we are still short re supplies. Supplies of PPEs, testing etc.
We don't track anyone here that I am aware of but please someone chime in if you know of tracking that is occurring in the states. NY and NJ I know of no such tracking.

With Trump as far as I see it (my interpretation only) it will be survival of the fittest. Because he wants to reopen everything here as quickly as possible. And I am not getting a clear sense of any solid plan. Lots of talking by all our politicians but they aren't saying much especially given all the talking they are doing.

Australia is doing an amazing job and protecting their citizens wonderfully. I am so pleased for all of you and for all the countries who are doing an excellent job. I hope and pray our politicians will figure out the best course of action moving forward to minimize the number of lives continuing to be lost here. I am also out of tears. Not really but you get my point.

Stay safe, be well and lots of good wishes going to everyone who needs them.

 

[Babyblue033]

What is the plan for the US? Eradication? Suppression? Herd immunity? Survival of the fittest?

With Trump as far as I see it (my interpretation only) it will be survival of the fittest. Because he wants to reopen everything here as quickly as possible. And I am not getting a clear sense of any solid plan. Lots of talking by all our politicians but they aren't saying much especially given all the talking they are doing.

Now that you guys mention it, I don't know what's overall plan is in the US? All the talk has just been quarantine, then opening it back up for economy, but I don't remember anyone mentioning what the ACTUAL plan is to go from quarantine to opening the country back up. Am I missing something?

 

[1ofakind]

@missy we’ve been able to do tracing in our area but we are not large or overrun with cases. This is happening in a lot of lower population areas. IDK how they could possibly trace contacts in places like NYC...isn’t the mass transit still running?
While there isn’t strict enforcement like fines or public beatings where I am people here are observing the quarantine pretty well. In some states/areas they are stopping people and issuing tickets For being out or gathering in groups.

 

[arkieb1]

@missy @kipari @Babyblue033 @AGBF @Dancing Fire and anyone else that might be interested - This is our Prime Minister's general "plan" outlined on one of our TV shows tonight;

7.30

www.abc.net.au

There is a stark difference between a leader that is a humble decent ordinary guy that totally "gets it" and wants the best outcome for his country and the way Trump has and is handling everything.....

There is also stark difference in the rational way our leader answers unscripted media questions and the way Trump answers unscripted media questions.... I can't even imagine Trump calmly handling a leading female journalist interrupting and grilling him the way Leigh Sales does to our politicians.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Spot on @arkieb1


Can't imagine being Angela Merkel (PhD in physics) and having to "argue" with DT as part of your job..even worse during a pandemic..

That sai, it's just a normal press conference as it should be in a democracy. That it's noteworthy at all is quite unsettling..

 

[Niffler75]

Well 3 more weeks of lockdown here just announced in the UK. I broadly think it is the right thing but our Government is under a lot of pressure to publish an 'exit strategy' and there is lots of talk about the damage to the economy.
However if lockdown is lifted too soon there is risk of a second wave of infection and further lockdowns.

 

[chrono]

I think several places have seen a second wave or even 3rd wave when opened too soon, from what I've seen on news. I think South Korea is seeing a second wave?

 

[Tekate]

@Tekate which statements do you not know are true? Be specific please. It’s a little embarrassing that someone claiming to be so informed would not know about the 1000 bed ship that sits in the harbor accepting Covid patients, as everyone else seems to knows it Is therE as a fact. Maybe you really aren’t relying on information as complete/accurate as you think If you need verification for any of those simple things. Do you know how to use Google?...there are even photos of the ship passing by the Statue of Liberty...very nice pictures.
Or maybe if I posted that the sky is blue you would demand proof for that too. What if after every statement I said something like “trump is a fat orange troll”, “Trump is an idiot and it’s all his fault” “Trump is an incompetent fool who can’t find his backside with both hands”. Try that and see if it works for you.

Well did YOU read my pointers? about the ship?? And who's embarrassed? You why? now if you are embarrassed that you make unsubstantiated claims, I'm down with that. So here's a few pointers for you to read. To me it's obvious you can only google right wing sites. Thanks for the supposed helpful hints, I have always found that right wingers always attack rather than do research.

And if you said the sky is blue I don't think I'd check it because I KNOW the scientific reason why they sky is blue, do you? Can you use google? or Bing! .

An Update From The USNS Comfort

The Navy hospital ship USNS Comfort has been docked in New York City for more than two weeks. WCBS 880's Steve Scott spoke with Capt. Patrick Amersbach, the commanding officer of the treatment facility aboard the hospital ship USNS Comfort, for an update.

wcbs880.radio.com

The 1,000-Bed Comfort Was Supposed to Aid New York. It Has 20 Patients. (Published 2020)

“It’s a joke,” said a top hospital executive, whose facilities are packed with coronavirus patients.

www.nytimes.com

You have to read more than just right wing news. of course you can stick to one side and not get a full, well rounded report. Up to you.