What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[mellowyellowgirl]

Not quite true - Australia is not locked down. We have restaurant and you cant go to a beuty parlour or nail sallon - all other retail should remani open but most have closed and layed off their staff which is a mean b#@%&^*d act in my opinion.
We are trading with half working from home to increase work place distance.
Here is the Victorian Australia rules:

All restaurants are closed in NSW. Take away only.

I know our PM hasn't used the word lockdown (and doesn't want to use it) but keeping our kids home, restaurants closed etc is pretty much a lockdown.

They keep telling us to stay home (and so they should).

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

They keep telling us to stay home (and so they should).

wrong IMHO.
We are over the hump and what we have done so far (mainly testing probably more than any country per person) and we are creating a huge suicide and mental health issue by closing work places and laying people off.

 

[Tekate]

IUD program leads to big decline in teen pregnancies, abortions in Colorado

Intrauterine devices — tiny, T-shaped pieces of plastic placed in the uterus — are the main reason Colorado’s teen pregnancy rate fell 54 percent and teen abortion rate declined 6…

www.denverpost.com

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The birth rates by by state show who's having babies, but the USA is in a declining birthrate - free fall, due to the millenials feeling unsure about the economy (and now it will be even worse I'm sure, hope not but pretty sure).

The poor stay poor because of poor decisions? According to Wiki it's a cycle of poverty which includes poor choices but there are many many reasons why there is a cycle of poverty.

Cycle of poverty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So I am not sure that poor choices are the main reason why people continue to be poor.

The difference between us and the natural world is that we have a conscience and we can make choices.

As I said, the future bodes that all people will be receive income as jobs become obsolete

There are many reasons why people can't get ahead, I think we should give free birth control to all women and men who want it (condoms) AND training etc.

It's a great discussion but I will end it for me because this is about our government and COVID 19.

My mom always said, to each his or her own.

Income and fertility - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Except in places where educational level is high despite poverty, the overwhelming impression I have is that it's the poor who are not practicing birth control even when birth control and abortions are available to them. The poor stay poor because of poor behaviors and decision making, such as (for examples) young mothers using drugs anWd birthing kids who are disabled rather than just practicing birth control in the first place. A good proportion of the poor may turn to religions that encourage them to have as many kids as possible because God will always provide. Religious fanatics (who don't have to be poor) might treat any and all new life they could bring into being as "good". They see the leaves, not the forest. The way the natural world works, when you birth too many animals and there's not enough food, they starve. When you seed a plot of soil too densely, you get thousands of young sprouts that don't survive to maturity, because resources are limited. Why do we spay and neuter rescue animals, if not to prevent creating a situation where there's more young strays who suffer and starve? Yet why is it that people don't think about the strain on resources they themselves bring to the world? I suspect that the poor are, through no fault of their own, unlikely to think about issues like overpopulation and the direct connection between human overpopulation and climate change. It's proven there's more of them, and they're having more births compared to those of us making more income, so it's the poor (I expect) who tend to contribute more to the problem of overpopulation.

By infinite welfare I mean the expectation that there's somehow magically going to be enough for everyone if we simply expand welfare. I am worried about this because I am looking far ahead the present day to what the future would be. The course we're cruising on, if we don't find effective ways to curb climate change and world overpopulation, even if machines did all the work, and we had universal basic income, that universal basic income might not be enough for subsistence, as there could be so many people fighting over limited resources (minerals, food, and materials needed to construct the equipment we need to harness and distribute renewable resources) that if you just distribute everything equally that would not ensure survival for everyone.

Believing that there's somehow magically going to be enough to provide a good life for everyone, if only we are more caring and expand welfare, that's belief, faith, religion and fiction. There's no data to support this. I am afraid there's not going to be enough goods and services if the poor (not just in the US, but in all the world) get to consume goods and services at the same rate.

 

[Tekate]

So how does one figure out how to get laid off? one can figure out how to get fired, but getting laid off? I've never known ANYONE who had power to institute a layoff. This is just crazy talk.

But she didn't say quitting, she said they were trying to figure out how to get laid off so they could collect more $.

 

[Tekate]

Cut the cord. We haven't had cable tv in 6 years and it's been heaven. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, Cspan, they can become so addictive.

@mellowyellowgirl, I share your view of the media. My husband has had CNN on non-stop and I finally had to ask him to turn it off because I felt that they were taking every opportunity to turn this crisis into disaster p*rn for the sole purpose of lining their pockets by making people watch. There is absolutely no reason to sensationalize the tragedy that people are experiencing, engage in fear-mongering that encourages people to stockpile food, swarm to buy out the N95 masks that are in such short supply for our front line health care workers, or run out to buy ammo - which horrifies me tbh.

 

[arkieb1]

OK, removing border restrictions

Even if they remove boarder restrictions, the restrictions on when and where we can go out and allow some things like schools etc to open again by mid July we are a big Island, to keep the virus contained or the numbers low they are NEVER going to reopen things like International travel again any time soon....

My husband works in Aviation, so your version of "back to normal" and my version of "back to normal" is never going to be the same.

 

[voce]

@Tekate poverty is quite a complicated problem. I do not blame the poor for the way that things are, and it's BEHAVIOR not decisions that matter. There's reasons why the poor behave that way that are out of their control. I do not know what the main reason is, or if there is a main reasons, but facts are facts and we may not be able to help everyone. Yes, the US has birth rates declining, but what about elsewhere in the world? I'm not saying any area has rising birth rates, but birth rates might not be declining fast enough relative to death rates for future generations to be saved from overpopulation.

I see overpopulation as similar to climate change, that even though we have started to do something, what we're doing might not be enough to prevent reaching the tipping point past which conditions are irreversible for a calamity at some point in the future.

Anyway, this is enough of an aside. We should get back to discussing COVID-19.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

There is a feakenomics book and video on al the poverty stuff. Even choice of a name can doom a child to poverty for the rest of their life!

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

wrong IMHO.
We are over the hump and what we have done so far (mainly testing probably more than any country per person) and we are creating a huge suicide and mental health issue by closing work places and laying people off.

Even if they remove boarder restrictions, the restrictions on when and where we can go out and allow some things like schools etc to open again by mid July we are a big Island, to keep the virus contained or the numbers low they are NEVER going to reopen things like International travel again any time soon....

My husband works in Aviation, so your version of "back to normal" and my version of "back to normal" is never going to be the same.

I don't think they should open international travel again any time soon!

Personally I'd be aiming for Australia to bounce back semi normally (kids go to school, restaurants and retail open) before we let people in or out of the country.

Most of the cases were from international travellers and cruises!!!!!

 

[arkieb1]

@mellowyellowgirl - I totally agree with you, I was simply making the point to Garry that his version of back to normal (if states ease some restrictions mid July) and mine are not going to look the same.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@mellowyellowgirl - I totally agree with you, I was simply making the point to Garry that his version of back to normal (if states ease some restrictions mid July) and mine are not going to look the same.

Totally understand! Trust me there is no one who loves meandering around the shops more than I do!

But stay home and bounce on the trampoline I must!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Unfortunately if the lock downs work and we don’t have mass casualties, people will say “See? Everything’s fine”. If we lift things too soon or too rashly, then more outbreaks and deaths. I’d prefer the former, as annoyed as I would be about the inevitable misinformed “I told you so”s.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I don't think they should open international travel again any time soon!
Personally I'd be aiming for Australia to bounce back semi normally (kids go to school, restaurants and retail open) before we let people in or out of the country.
Most of the cases were from international travellers and cruises!!!!!

I expect Australia will enable travel to and from other countries who got ontop early.
But not nations that lie and cheat like 2 that I marked in red

 

[Dancing Fire]

So how does one figure out how to get laid off? one can figure out how to get fired, but getting laid off? I've never known ANYONE who had power to institute a layoff. This is just crazy talk.

Easy, just ask your employer. I know many waiters/ waitress ask their employer to lay them off so they can collect unemployment since restaurants can only take to go orders now. They don't receive much tips for to go orders. Unemployment benefits will net more $$$ per month than working.

 

[Niffler75]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) You make a really good point about mental health. In the UK there is an article about this in the news. There have been I think 9 cases of murders that could be related to domestic violence and having to endure shutdown. Community services for the vulnerable/ disabled have essentially closed. People with mental health diagnoses are not receiving their usual supports.
I have a son with complex needs who was just starting to transition to a new school. That has all stopped. Face to face support has stopped. I have no respite. We're just getting on with things as best we can.

 

[missy]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) You make a really good point about mental health. In the UK there is an article about this in the news. There have been I think 9 cases of murders that could be related to domestic violence and having to endure shutdown. Community services for the vulnerable/ disabled have essentially closed. People with mental health diagnoses are not receiving their usual supports.
I have a son with complex needs who was just starting to transition to a new school. That has all stopped. Face to face support has stopped. I have no respite. We're just getting on with things as best we can.

@Niffler75 my heart goes out to you. It's a challenging situation. I know you and your family will get through this and prevail. In the meantime it is so hard. Sending you (((hugs))) and love and well wishes.

 

[House Cat]

I’m very worried about the fact that an inexperienced, failed businessman is handling the largest crisis to hit our nation in over 100 years. Wby in the world is he in charge of any of this?

 

[missy]

I’m very worried about the fact that an inexperienced, failed businessman is handling the largest crisis to hit our nation in over 100 years. Wby in the world is he in charge of any of this?

Because Trump is in charge. It all starts with him. The way the USA has handled the pandemic.

 

[Tekate]

OH sure I'll bet restaurants want to honor a laid off request. What's in it for the employer? Hey maybe if restaurants paid their wait staff fairly then they wouldn't have people quitting and 'asking to be laid off'.

So you know 'many' waiters etc. Please anecdotal evidence is NO evidence. I know plenty of people who think they talked to aliens, prove me wrong. ha.

How To Negotiate A Severance: Don't Get Fired Or Quit, Get Laid Off Instead

This article will teach you how to negotiate a severance package and break free from a job you dislike. Life is too short to keep doing something that brings you no meaning, purpose, or happiness. I am the bestselling author of How To Engineer Your Layoff: Make A Small Fortune By Saying Goodbye...

www.financialsamurai.com

Easy, just ask your employer. I know many waiters/ waitress ask their employer to lay them off so they can collect unemployment since restaurants can only take to go orders now. They don't receive much tips for to go orders. Unemployment benefits will net more $$$ per month than working.

 

[OreoRosies86]

OH sure I'll bet restaurants want to honor a laid off request. What's in it for the employer? Hey maybe if restaurants paid their wait staff fairly then they wouldn't have people quitting and 'asking to be laid off'.

So you know 'many' waiters etc. Please anecdotal evidence is NO evidence. I know plenty of people who think they talked to aliens, prove me wrong. ha.

How To Negotiate A Severance: Don't Get Fired Or Quit, Get Laid Off Instead

This article will teach you how to negotiate a severance package and break free from a job you dislike. Life is too short to keep doing something that brings you no meaning, purpose, or happiness. I am the bestselling author of How To Engineer Your Layoff: Make A Small Fortune By Saying Goodbye...

www.financialsamurai.com

He knows everyone! Waiters, people on food stamps who loudly crow about how much they love living off the government dole, people taking their citizenship exams. Heck, he has all the time in the world to volunteer with them and manage to be on here 24/7. Renaissance man!

 

[FL_Sol]

He knows everyone! Waiters, people on food stamps who loudly crow about how much they love living off the government dole, people taking their citizenship exams. Has all the time in the world to volunteer and be on here 24/7. Renaissance man!

Some of us have large families and have plenty of people who do this kind of stuff and are proud of it. I am one of them and those family members have no shame.

 

[FL_Sol]

Now that I think about it, I wonder if that is why some people are so against welfare, because we see SO many people that rip off the system and since these people are so close to us we see and hear their true intentions. Social workers don’t get to see that side.

 

[Calliecake]

@Dancing Fire, We are in a pandemic and people want their lives and their jobs to get back to normal. People are afraid. They have families they are trying to support. They are NOT looking for ways to cheat the system.

If you want to go on about how everyone on welfare is cheating
the system go start a thread about it. It doesn’t belong on this thread.

All you are trying to do is bait and anger people. SMDH

 

[Tekate]

Me too! I have felon brothers! (of course one died of lung cancer) I was a cashier! I was a cleaning lady while working MY own way through college, most of us have come up the hard way, nothing to brag about in my life just the way it was back in the 60s and 70s.. Education was easier then in my neck of the country, NYC, I was able to get assistance, Pell grants, work study and loans, I am always and forever indebted to the American people for taking a chance on me.

Some of us have large families and have plenty of people who do this kind of stuff and are proud of it. I am one of them and those family members have no shame.

 

[Tekate]

Now that I think about it, I wonder if that is why some people are so against welfare, because we see SO many people that rip off the system and since these people are so close to us we see and hear their true intentions. Social workers don’t get to see that side.

Could you restate this? I don't understand exactly what you are saying. You see SO many people on assistance? and you have a pipeline to their true intentions? Just trying to understand what exactly you are sayng.

 

[Tekate]

I try never to engage but never do a a good job of it because I believe in honesty above all in our lives and also I'm not mad, Also I think for me Callie it's a logical fallacy to these peoples arguments, one can never say things like below which really force me into a reply, if people put up fair and logical arguments like say Voce, I can learn, I can retort my thoughts but I can call it a day fairly and with learning.

I know many people who?
We all know!
Etc.

List of fallacies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People should read at least what a False Attribution is.

The Wiki article is full of tons of logical fallacies etc but if one just wants to read what a False Attribution is then I have posted a pointer. False Attribution is used often in discussions of welfare, poverty, education etc on PS.

I am a believer in first defining a problem and researching all I can before making any argument, I may know tons of stuff (hah!) but if I can't back it up with facts then it isn't worth a hill of beans as my mother would say. As an aside: I think this is what frustrates many left leaning people.

False Attribution

Appealing to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

@Dancing Fire, We are in a pandemic and people want their lives and their jobs to get back to normal. People are afraid. They have families they are trying to support. They are NOT looking for ways to cheat the system.

If you want to go on about how everyone on welfare is cheating
the system go start a thread about it. It doesn’t belong on this thread.

All you are trying to do is bait and anger people. SMDH

 

[Dancing Fire]

All you are trying to do is bait and anger people. SMDH

Every time when I'm telling the truth I'm baiting the left?

 

[Dancing Fire]

OH sure I'll bet restaurants want to honor a laid off request. What's in it for the employer? Hey maybe if restaurants paid their wait staff fairly then they wouldn't have people quitting and 'asking to be laid off'.

They paid more than min, but still not enough to cover their daily tips. Take out business are slow too. There are only 2 Chinese restaurant near us open for take outs the rest been closed for 3 weeks now.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Tekate-- DT often does this--very often. He says ,"everyone says", "many people have told me"., ect. .Don't ask him to back it up. To be fair, we do hear things among our families and friends and form opinions from the stories that others tell us. We don't have to back all things that we say or think with a litany of facts.

I hope you stay well.

Annette

 

[Calliecake]

@smitcompton, Please take good care of yourself and stay well Annette. I’ve been thinking of you. Callie