Well, Now Brett Kavanaugh Can Face His Accuser

[OreoRosies86]

"I hope those who do not believe victims and scream fake news and claim it is all politics get exactly what they deserve."

 

[soxfan]

I just read it. Oh my GOD.

And she has receipts too. Kavanaugh is done. There's no way they can push this through. We can argue all we want, but ain't no WAY she's lying.

 

[lovedogs]

You don't get to tell me how sexual assault affects a woman. Don't you dare preach at me. I want evidence of wrongdoing in order to destroy people. Especially these new ones. If this happened, any woman that allowed this to happen and not say anything for 3 decades does not care for other women because anyone guilty of those kinds of acts needs to go to jail.

Women that "allowed" this to happen??? Really?

 

[redwood66]

Women that "allowed" this to happen??? Really?

Of course you would glom onto that to take it out of context. She allowed it to happen to others in front of her.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’ve read the statement by this third accuser, and I do believe she (despite her choice in scummy azz lawyer) brings subtantially more credibility to her allegations than Ford. It is abhorrent the behavior she details as happening to herself as well as others.

She states she witnessed Kav exhibiting ‘predatory’ behavior (generalizing here because I don’t want to misstate a criminal allegation), but what was not clear to me in her statement is if she is specifically stating Kav is one of the people who participated in the gang rape activity she alleges happened to herself or was merely ‘present in the location’ at these events (not that the latter is acceptable). I’m not suggesting she is lying. I just could not ascertain that specific detail clearly in her statement.

Reading her statement objectively, I was very disturbed by this:

I find it extremely ‘troubling’ - potentially discrediting, even - that she “firmly recalls” to have witnessed MULTIPLE episodes of alleged gang rape at these parties. What she describes having witnessed - no argument it’s entirely disgusting, wrong, and a million other words I can’t find at the moment. But #1 Who in the hell attends a second, third, fourth, etc. party knowingly with this crowd doing these things, much less #2) not ever reporting the crimes even if as only a ‘bystander’ or ‘casual attendee’ at the party (not speaking to whether she did/did not report her own attack).

It’s disgusting what she claims happened to her, and there’s no justifying it. At the same time, to have attended that many ‘parties’ where one claims they knew these events were occurring, in my mind that makes one appear to be condoning and/or as complicit in the activities going on as anyone else who happened to be there and knew about them ... be it Kav, Judge, or Mary Poppins.

 

[lovedogs]

Of course you would glom onto that to take it out of context. She allowed it to happen to others in front of her.

No, I read what you wrote, and took it in context. But I'm appalled that your first reaction is that if it's true it's the fault of ANYONE except the perpetrators. That just doesn't make any sense .

 

[redwood66]

No, I read what you wrote, and took it in context. But I'm appalled that your first reaction is that if it's true it's the fault of ANYONE except the perpetrators. That just doesn't make any sense .

Of course any kind of assault is not the fault of anyone but perpetrators. But I do not want any kind of sexual offender on the streets if they are guilty. I want the scumbags behind bars. As was said earlier unless women come forward how can it be changed?

 

[the_mother_thing]

No, I read what you wrote, and took it in context. But I'm appalled that your first reaction is that if it's true it's the fault of ANYONE except the perpetrators. That just doesn't make any sense .

This 3rd woman KNEW these activities were going on at these parties - HER words - and she said/did nothing, AND kept going to them. In my mind, that makes her as complicit in the other attacks she alleges happened as ANYONE else who was at them, assumably predating her own attack.

It doesn’t excuse or justify her own alleged attack. But - separately, as it pertains to the other alleged victims she talks about - she KNEW it was happening to others, and she kept going to these ‘parties’. She may be a victim, but she is also complicit in THEIR attacks.

There is NO denying that if you “believe all victims’ stories” including this one’s own sworn statement.

 

[Calliecake]

No, I read what you wrote, and took it in context. But I'm appalled that your first reaction is that if it's true it's the fault of ANYONE except the perpetrators. That just doesn't make any sense .

It follows their logic that it is ALWAYS a woman’s fault, NEVER saying that none of this would have happened if there were not a rapist in the room.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I dunno maybe people could just not rape people?

 

[the_mother_thing]

It follows their logic that it is ALWAYS a woman’s fault, NEVER saying that none of this would have happened if there were not a rapist in the room.

Maybe someone - such as this 3rd accuser who by her own admission KNEW there was a “rapist in the room” (ETA/CORRECTION - MULTIPLE RAPISTS IN THE ROOM) - should have spoke up to let others know, “hey, there’s a rapist in the room ... thought you should know”. Or better yet, I don’t know, considering she saw them do it multiple times, she might have alerted the authorities.

Talk about “perpetuating rape culture”.

 

[lovedogs]

I dunno maybe people could just not rape people?

IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[OreoRosies86]

IMPOSSIBLE!

You know what what's better than reporting rape, taking a rape kit, pressing charges? NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

 

[redwood66]

Maybe someone - such as this 3rd accuser who by her own admission KNEW there was a “rapist in the room” (ETA/CORRECTION - MULTIPLE RAPISTS IN THE ROOM) - should have spoke up to let others know, “hey, there’s a rapist in the room ... thought you should know”. Or better yet, I don’t know, considering she saw them do it multiple times, she might have alerted the authorities.

Talk about “perpetuating rape culture”.

This. So much this. It's easy to say people should just not rape but that is not the world we live in. The world can be ugly. I would love this Utopian fantasy but it doesn't exist so let's come back to the real world.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Aaaaaaand that's the crux of this burning issue. These people don't want a better world. They want their daughters to inherently understand and accept that at some point they might be assaulted. Because that's "just the way the world is."

 

[redwood66]

You are so good at reading your BS into anything someone else says.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Perhaps “these people” prefer to raise their daughters 1) to not condone nor remain silent when they witness crimes; 2) have common sense and NOT put themselves in situations that increase their risk for being attacked; and, 3) hold individuals responsible for their actions vs. blaming “society” or a “culture”.

I haven’t heard of “culture” or “society” committing a robbery, rape or assault, but I have read about individuals who do it.

 

[redwood66]

Saying "people should not rape" is no kind of strategy to prevent it or protect women. One thing the Me-Too movement has done is get it out how often women are not believed. Police departments cannot in this new era afford to brush off accusations without investigations. Now women need to come forward and make them. Mothers should not use their experiences to talk their daughters out of telling because they believe no one would have listened to them decades ago.

 

[the_mother_thing]

This. So much this. It's easy to say people should just not rape but that is not the world we live in. The world can be ugly. I would love this Utopian fantasy but it doesn't exist so let's come back to the real world.

Right!

People shouldn’t murder either, but they do.

People shouldn’t beat their spouses, but they do.

People shouldn’t rob banks, but they do.

People shouldn’t drive drunk, but they do.

Ugly, evil, and bad things happen to good people every single day. That’s not an excuse; it’s a fact of life. You can blame society, culture, whatever ... but don’t blame the justice system if you don’t even bother knocking on its door.

 

[Alexiszoe]

@the_mother_thing, I understand where you are coming from when you said,

"Ugly, evil, and bad things happen to good people every single day. That’s not an excuse; it’s a fact of life. You can blame society, culture, whatever ... but don’t blame the justice system if you don’t even bother knocking on its door."

In an ideal situation I do wish rape victims would come forward and report the crime - because data also shows rapists tend to conduct multiple counts of sexual assault /rapes against other women as well.

However, given that the statistics show 2.5% of reported rapes results in convictions, I can also understand why victims are reluctant to come forward. Invasive rape kit tests. Having everyone around you know that this awful thing has happened (and even the world should the news report it). Reliving it constantly as the victim sits through multiple interviews with investigators and lawyers, on top of these images floating into their minds all the time, which causes so much pain they wish they could just shut it all out and try to move on. Character assassinations that she somehow deserved it because she was (drinking /promiscuous etc etc), when No means No. All of this when the odds are extremely high that the prep would not be convicted for the crime.

The justice system is woefully lacking when it comes to rape and its victims. Right now, the culture and system is stacked extremely favorably for preps. There is no easy solution unfortunately. But part of reforming that is building an environment where victims feel safe, that they would be taken seriously, that no means no, that how they dress /their promiscuity etc does not mean they invited the assault and somehow deserved it.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Alexiszoe I get that, but - to be blunt - patting someone’s hand and telling them it’ll be alright isn’t going to increase the numbers of reported cases nor help improve the process of getting justice for victims. It sucks azz to be violated by someone else through no fault nor request of your own, just going about your daily business; I know. But my attackers would not have gone to jail if I did not report the crime and instead isolated myself in my home surrounded by my friends.

And in the case of this 3rd accuser, I’m going to partially take back my earlier comment. She DOES have credibility issues, IMO. She knew these alleged attacks were going on, and not only did she not speak up, she kept going to the very parties she now wants to hang someone else for. THAT is the epitome of disgusting.

 

[OreoRosies86]

 

[House Cat]

Hey everyone...hold on a second...

These women got THEMSELVES DRUGGED AND RAPED. They should have never left the house. They know the risks...those dirty little whores. They shouldn’t have tempted those poor, weak, unknowing men with their feminine ways.

Whores...all of them! They went to PARTIES!!! They deserved to be gang raped!! Hell, they deserved death because they didn’t lead their lives exactly the way I did!!!


There, it’s been said. Do the judgmental ones feel better now that their REAL truth is out there?

 

[monarch64]

I find it incredibly sad that there is a mentality that "this is just how it is" instead of "hey, let's work to change this atrocity." This atrocity being, oh, I don't know, that we socially condition our sons to be rapists in this culture with our insidious "boys will be boys" bullshit.

Whatever. This thread has me filled with rage and I can't read it any more.

 

[monarch64]

Hey everyone...hold on a second...

These women got THEMSELVES DRUGGED AND RAPED. They should have never left the house. They know the risks...those dirty little whores. They shouldn’t have tempted those poor, weak, unknowing men with their feminine ways.

Whores...all of them! They went to PARTIES!!! They deserved to be gang raped!! Hell, they deserved death because they didn’t lead their lives exactly the way I did!!!


There, it’s been said. Do the judgmental ones feel better now that their REAL truth is out there?

I mean you SAW how they were dressed! And they were DRINKING and HAVING A GOOD TIME! Those naughty little minxes deserved everything they got! Hussies! Harlots! Sluuuuuuuts! I mean they practically served themselves up on a platter to those poor hormonal teenage boys who couldn't be expected to control themselves!

 

[OreoRosies86]

Kind of funny how when Trump got elected and women were marching and college kids were protesting, the attitude was "sit down and shut up" like they were inmates who were begging for the guard to start cracking skulls. Now it's all "Why don't women speak up???"

 

[Alexiszoe]

@the_mother_thing, you are a strong woman for being brave enough to stand up against the preps and report the crime. I do respectfully disagree that culture has no bearing on reporting rape though. Take for example my friend's former company (a global org) has the official policy that harassment of any kind is not tolerated. However previous reports by other women has indicated management always ends up protecting the accused, keeping it quiet, while the women are eventually forced out of the company. Such a culture makes other women a lot more wary of reporting such cases because they put themselves at incredible risk.

As for the third accuser, I am withholding judgment because I need to know more. But releasing a sworn affidavit carries with it criminal liability if she has committed perjury. As a security clearance holder, this is a career ender.

 

[monarch64]

@Alexiszoe I get that, but - to be blunt - patting someone’s hand and telling them it’ll be alright isn’t going to increase the numbers of reported cases nor help improve the process of getting justice for victims. It sucks azz to be violated by someone else through no fault nor request of your own, just going about your daily business; I know. But my attackers would not have gone to jail if I did not report the crime and instead isolated myself in my home surrounded by my friends.

And in the case of this 3rd accuser, I’m going to partially take back my earlier comment. She DOES have credibility issues, IMO. She knew these alleged attacks were going on, and not only did she not speak up, she kept going to the very parties she now wants to hang someone else for. THAT is the epitome of disgusting.

This is the last I'll ever say to you and I'm sure you don't give a shit becuase you're SO STRONG:
You are the problem in this country and around the world. Not rape victims. Not people who are terrified to come forward. YOU.

 

[telephone89]

I find it interesting that now the burden of stopping these rapes falls on this one woman. What about all the men at the party? Why didn't they say anything? Why do people only target the women to try to stop these injustices AGAINST women BY men?

 

[redwood66]

I find it incredibly sad that there is a mentality that "this is just how it is" instead of "hey, let's work to change this atrocity." This atrocity being, oh, I don't know, that we socially condition our sons to be rapists in this culture with our insidious "boys will be boys" bullshit.

Whatever. This thread has me filled with rage and I can't read it any more.

I do my part by raising sons that respect women thank you very much. But espousing that women have no responsibility in their own safety is the ultimate head in the sand position. Expecting someone else to always do the right thing no matter what you yourself do or how you act is completely irresponsible with your own safety.

And if you conflate what I have just said with "She was asking for it." Then you are not listening at all.