WARNING: Do NOT read the post called “ This will be hard to see but please don’t look away.”

[ringo865]

@whitewave i’m glad your son was negative. I hope you are, too. And best wishes for a successful surgery and speedy recovery.

 

[whitewave]

@whitewave i’m glad your son was negative. I hope you are, too. And best wishes for a successful surgery and speedy recovery.

Thank you— I better be negative, lol. I THINK I’m getting a IGG IGM blood test, but if I have to get the brain tickle, then so be it.

 

[lyra]

@whitewave I wish you a good speedy recovery from your surgery on Monday. Take care.

 

[whitewave]

Thank you, @lyra

 

[Demon]

@whitewave Thank you for the warning! I am very much in favor of protecting animals and do not need to see horrific things.

@jeaniefish I appreciate your efforts, even if I couldn't open the thread. I donate regularly (in fact animal charities are where the vast majority of my donations go), sign petitions, call congress etc. However, I really don't want to see any of it.

 

[OboeGal]

@jeaniefish, I appreciate very much that you're calling much-needed attention to this issue.

 

[whitewave]

Thanks, everyone.

Yesterday, I felt tricked into opening that thread and when I realized the horror it was about, I felt the op inflicted pain on me without asking me beforehand if I had space for that.

The answer is obviously a giant NO I DO NOT HAVE SPACE FOR THAT RIGHT NOW DURING A PANDEMIC WITH MY KID SICK AND SEEMINGLY HEADED FOR A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN in time for my surgery on Monday.

Those are my feelings and people can like them or not and agree with them or not. It is.

I am not doing well during this pandemic at this point. I am very very distressed and anxious and worried. My three college age kids are all very unhappy with how the semester turned out. They have had to drop classes and the eldest has changed his graduation from fall to next spring.

Yes, life can be filled with disappointments and life changes and things that happen against your will...

Yes, we will all get through it and hopefully come out with some new perspective or skill or something worthwhile on the other end.

I do have therapy scheduled for next week because I absolutely have things to work through and discuss.

People do have to be mindful of what others might be going through when you want to throw out a triggering emotionally heavy torture topic. To ambush readers is BEYOND rude.

I put OP on ignore yesterday and I will page @Ella to close this topic since I have had my say on it.

Oh, and I am double presumptive negative for Covid infection and antibodies, so I have to be at the hospital Monday at 5:30.

 

[whitewave]

I realize if my thread is closed and OPs is open, more people might get ambushed into it and I’m sorry for that for those who would never want to read it.

I have had enough of people coming on this thread and thanking her for her thread. Her thread is for thanking her.

Heads up and I tried to warn people. I’m glad I helped several who didn’t want to read it.

 

[whitewave]

I am so sorry about your son and I hope he is negative for Covid 19. I totally get it. I just got off the phone with my sister who was crying the entire conversation and she is not a cryer. We are all under stress right now and emotions run high.
(((Hugs))).

It’s a crying time I guess lately. I was tearing up today so I called a friend and she was in the middle of a cry. So we laughed a bit and she had to go cry some more. So I got on Facebook to a mother’s group I’ve been a member of since the late 90s and another mom is crying all day today.

I guess today is now called “cry Friday”....

My husband went to go check on my son so at least he will be back tomorrow and maybe I’ll get a hit of ketamine on monday. Man, that was a real mood lifter when I had it in March for my colonscopy.

 

[Demon]

I realize if my thread is closed and OPs is open, more people might get ambushed into it and I’m sorry for that for those who would never want to read it.

I have had enough of people coming on this thread and thanking her for her thread. Her thread is for thanking her.

Heads up and I tried to warn people. I’m glad I helped several who didn’t want to read it.

You did. I was kind of wary of it anyway, but also a little curious. And so glad I didn't look. I hope things settle down for you and your family, and that everyone is doing well. I think we're all a little edgier than usual right now.

 

[TooPatient]

Thank you, everyone.

My son is negative (thank god) for coronavirus and positive for strep throat. Never really thought I’d be thrilled for strep but here we are.

Karl, I hope you are breathing better today.

TooPatient, I hope your husband is breathing better today.

Goodnight, everyone.

What a relief!! I am so glad he has strep throat.

DH is breathing lots better, thankfully. He had a drop this morning but overall trend is much better.

 

[Karl_K]

What a relief!! I am so glad he has strep throat.

DH is breathing lots better, thankfully. He had a drop this morning but overall trend is much better.

prayers continue.

@whitewave prayers continue.

 

[tyty333]

Hi @whitewave,

Your post a few post back made me tear up. I wanted to say, that I for one, appreciate your warning and did not open the thread. Pictures like
what I imagine are in that thread seem to make a permanent home in my brain and pop up randomly when I least expect it or, can deal with it.
So, I want to say thank you for the warning! I'm sorry you had to see it especially at a time like this.

Sometimes when I'm feeling stressed I find a good mantra to concentrate on like (for you), "Everyone is healthy and my surgery will go well."
So every time your brain wants to do a deep dive on worrying...just drop what you are thinking and say the mantra in your head over and over
until you have distracted your brain. Take some nice long calming breaths while you think /say your mantra. It works for me but it may really
depend on how wound up you are.

I wish you a speedy recovery from your surgery and in the meantime a calm, quiet, and peaceful inner voice. Be kind to yourself.

 

[whitewave]

Hi @whitewave,

Your post a few post back made me tear up. I wanted to say, that I for one, appreciate your warning and did not open the thread. Pictures like
what I imagine are in that thread seem to make a permanent home in my brain and pop up randomly when I least expect it or, can deal with it.
So, I want to say thank you for the warning! I'm sorry you had to see it especially at a time like this.

Sometimes when I'm feeling stressed I find a good mantra to concentrate on like (for you), "Everyone is healthy and my surgery will go well."
So every time your brain wants to do a deep dive on worrying...just drop what you are thinking and say the mantra in your head over and over
until you have distracted your brain. Take some nice long calming breaths while you think /say your mantra. It works for me but it may really
depend on how wound up you are.

I wish you a speedy recovery from your surgery and in the meantime a calm, quiet, and peaceful inner voice. Be kind to yourself.

Oh thank you so much. You know, I’m intuitive and emotive and a Clair (claircognizant) and it’s so hard to work out which parts of me are working and which parts are going squirrely if you know what I mean. I do feel very mixed up right now— jumbled. Edgy, as demon said.

Thank you for reminding me to quiet those intrusive thoughts, and to use mantras. My favorite one for general purpose is “breathing in, I am a mountain; breathing out, I am solid” (thich Nhat Hanh)

I do like the one you gave to me. I will use it. I’m going to take my dogs for a walk and count squirrels.

@Karl_K , as always, thank you. I accept prayers and anything else anyone has to spare.

@Demon thank you too.

@TooPatient keep us updated on your husband

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

Thanks, everyone.

Yesterday, I felt tricked into opening that thread and when I realized the horror it was about, I felt the op inflicted pain on me without asking me beforehand if I had space for that.

The answer is obviously a giant NO I DO NOT HAVE SPACE FOR THAT RIGHT NOW DURING A PANDEMIC WITH MY KID SICK AND SEEMINGLY HEADED FOR A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN in time for my surgery on Monday.

Those are my feelings and people can like them or not and agree with them or not. It is.

I am not doing well during this pandemic at this point. I am very very distressed and anxious and worried. My three college age kids are all very unhappy with how the semester turned out. They have had to drop classes and the eldest has changed his graduation from fall to next spring.

Yes, life can be filled with disappointments and life changes and things that happen against your will...

Yes, we will all get through it and hopefully come out with some new perspective or skill or something worthwhile on the other end.

I do have therapy scheduled for next week because I absolutely have things to work through and discuss.

People do have to be mindful of what others might be going through when you want to throw out a triggering emotionally heavy torture topic. To ambush readers is BEYOND rude.

I put OP on ignore yesterday and I will page @Ella to close this topic since I have had my say on it.

Oh, and I am double presumptive negative for Covid infection and antibodies, so I have to be at the hospital Monday at 5:30.

For the love of GOD @whitewave, the picture is only of a mangy dog sitting in a cage awaiting its fate. You make it seem like it is being butchered alive or tortured in the moment. I could post pictures on here that would make that picture look like a birthday party.

Perhaps it is the issue you are taking exception with, and you would prefer not to think about it, like most people. THAT is a huge dilemma as that is EXACTLY what allows these situations to occur. If more people cared to put a stop to it, there would be less occurrences of it worldwide.

Your "NOT HAVING THE SPACE FOR THAT RIGHT NOW" is a personal problem and absolutely, positively and utterly nonexistent as a concern in comparison to the torture that tens of millions of animals go through every year. Everyone is going through something right now. Who do you think you are to tell people not to thank @jeaniefish on this thread or any other? Or to berate her for trying to do something good in this awful time? Do you really not care or want something done about the abhorrent treatment that a lot of animals get? Get over yourself.

A lot of people post on here with "emotionally heavy" topics, many of them in the past week alone, and YOU do not seem to have a problem with that. Are they not being "mindful of what others might be going through" when they post? And what about you? @jeaniefish is going through something too, why is what she is feeling less important that what you are feeling? I am starting to think that I misjudged you completely.

 

[mrs-b]

Has anyone reported that other thread? Why is it different to someone starting a thread full or images of dead human bodies? I'm sure I know what's in that thread, because I encountered it unexpectedly on FB. It distressed me immensely.

I dont believe my comfort comes before that of an animal - frankly, I love animals more than people and am unapologetic about it. So it's not like I think all of us should be spared discomfort so we can brush the problem under the rug. I think we need to donate and advocate. But most people develop a sense of hopelessness more than a sense of activism when confronted with images such as these, and if the OP of the other thread was more educated on animal rescue, she would know that these sorts of images have been proven time and time again to be less effective at garnering support for the victims, than photos of animals living happy and wonderful lives. And if you must share details, do it in words - not with graphic images that mostly lead to a generalized hatred of mankind, nothing more.

I read a story about a middle aged, female postal worker shot dead by a man because the PO would not deliver the mail to his house due to an aggressive dog on the property. The guy went and found her on her route, they had an argument, he threatened her, she pepper sprayed him, and he shot her dead.

Then I read another story about a man who clubbed a 75 year old woman over the head with an iron pipe so he coud steal one of the pizzas she was carrying. An iron pipe? A PIZZA??

So, yeah - some people are the utter scum of the earth. A lot more people than we'd like to think, and this is nowhere more obvious than in all the various animal harvesting markets. How we treat pigs in the US, for example, should be a crime. We don't need to go to China to see animals living in abject agony. Puppy mills, for example... The list is endless.

So donate. Advocate. Start petitions. Call your local member or your senator. Rescue a dog. Sponsor an elephant. Protest the use of lab animals. By-pass Chinese products. Do something proactive - it's our responsibility.

But it can start from a place of hope, rather than utter despair.

Now go pat your dog, and make sure that at least ONE animal on the planet is having the life they all should have.

 

[whitewave]

Took the dogs for a walk.

Sandy knows I love her, but she is on ignore right now because I am serious when I say I can’t handle it right now. Respect that or move on. Aggressively coming at me isn’t helpful for me... her post read as loud to me (didn’t get past the first sentence) and nope, had a panic attack today and don’t have space for another one.

@Mrs B be well, my dear. Love you.

 

[Matata]

@SandyinAnaheim your lack of compassion and humanity in your pustulant post above is shocking. Whitewave explained her position and like it or not, respect it or not, you are way out of line in your merciless response. To turn your inquiry back on you -- who are you to judge her so harshly and to bash someone who was honest in her reasons for her reaction to that post and who is particularly vulnerable at this point.

 

[TooPatient]

Has anyone reported that other thread? Why is it different to someone starting a thread full or images of dead human bodies? I'm sure I know what's in that thread, because I encountered it unexpectedly on FB. It distressed me immensely.

I dont believe my comfort comes before that of an animal - frankly, I love animals more than people and am unapologetic about it. So it's not like I think all of us should be spared discomfort so we can brush the problem under the rug. I think we need to donate and advocate. But most people develop a sense of hopelessness more than a sense of activism when confronted with images such as these, and if the OP of the other thread was more educated on animal rescue, she would know that these sorts of images have been proven time and time again to be less effective at garnering support for the victims, than photos of animals living happy and wonderful lives. And if you must share details, do it in words - not with graphic images that mostly lead to a generalized hatred of mankind, nothing more.

I read a story about a middle aged, female postal worker shot dead by a man because the PO would not deliver the mail to his house due to an aggressive dog on the property. The guy went and found her on her route, they had an argument, he threatened her, she pepper sprayed him, and he shot her dead.

Then I read another story about a man who clubbed a 75 year old woman over the head with an iron pipe so he coud steal one of the pizzas she was carrying. An iron pipe? A PIZZA??

So, yeah - some people are the utter scum of the earth. A lot more people than we'd like to think, and this is nowhere more obvious than in all the various animal harvesting markets. How we treat pigs in the US, for example, should be a crime. We don't need to go to China to see animals living in abject agony. Puppy mills, for example... The list is endless.

So donate. Advocate. Start petitions. Call your local member or your senator. Rescue a dog. Sponsor an elephant. Protest the use of lab animals. By-pass Chinese products. Do something proactive - it's our responsibility.

But it can start from a place of hope, rather than utter despair.

Now go pat your dog, and make sure that at least ONE animal on the planet is having the life they all should have.

The animal rescue people I know are often the last people who want to see any images like described by this OP. They actually unfriend and block anyone who shares ANY photo or video of abuse. Those who are most experienced with rescue and how to have a positive impact actually block those who want to help but approach it this way. I used to think that was a bit excessive as it is the animals who suffer as people can't work together. Now, I have seen way too much and get where they are coming from. There is so much suffering and only so much I can help. I help all I can and try to get others to help too. A couple of people I had gotten to be more active have quit helping (outside of donations to a rescue who doesn't send any information out) because they couldn't handle the photos and video any more.

No, I did not open the thread in question. I was afraid it could be something like this and I don't have it in me to see more of those photos right now.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

@SandyinAnaheim your lack of compassion and humanity in your pustulant post above is shocking. Whitewave explained her position and like it or not, respect it or not, you are way out of line in your merciless response. To turn your inquiry back on you -- who are you to judge her so harshly and to bash someone who was honest in her reasons for her reaction to that post and who is particularly vulnerable at this point.

@jeaniefish explained her position too and @whitewave did NOT like it and reported the thread to get it shut down. She obviously DID NOT RESPECT @jeaniefish's feelings and was WAY out of line herself in HER merciless, insensitive and callous response. That’s why I responded the way I did. This topic, which is not something I bring up here (because, look at the responses!), is the nearest and dearest to my heart and @whitewave knows that personally. Her attack, on this particular subject, is loathsome and uncalled for and disappointed me immensely. The image is NOT shocking in any way, sad – definitely.

And please, try not to use big words that you don’t know the meaning of. Pustulant has no relevance to either me, my post, or the topic.

 

[Matata]

@SandyinAnaheim I know what pustulant means and your post was full of puss. I didn't find any of the negativity you refer to in whitewave's posts. This is an admitted hot button for you and you lost perspective about when to simply stay quiet, because there are times when we should stay quiet in order to not fan the flames further.

I did not read jeaniefish's post but, because it appeared to contain a photo or vid of a suffering animal, I hoped it would be deleted or at least amended to remove the photo/vid. As I said earlier on, there are ways to garner support without using shock and awe. I'm in agreement with the sentiment that here, now, is not the time to be confronted by painful images.

I hope you and whitewave forgive each other for not being perfect.

 

[whitewave]

@mrs-b @TooPatient right about Facebook. My rule is if any graphic photos or stories come across my feed, the person is unfriended with no fanfare or comment and I move on.

@Matata thank you for having my back. I can’t see what’s happening (please, god, make it stop) but it sounds like I did the right thing with ignore.

I hope everyone has a peaceful night with no drama or panic.

 

[jeaniefish]

Has anyone reported that other thread? Why is it different to someone starting a thread full or images of dead human bodies? I'm sure I know what's in that thread, because I encountered it unexpectedly on FB. It distressed me immensely.

I dont believe my comfort comes before that of an animal - frankly, I love animals more than people and am unapologetic about it. So it's not like I think all of us should be spared discomfort so we can brush the problem under the rug. I think we need to donate and advocate. But most people develop a sense of hopelessness more than a sense of activism when confronted with images such as these, and if the OP of the other thread was more educated on animal rescue, she would know that these sorts of images have been proven time and time again to be less effective at garnering support for the victims, than photos of animals living happy and wonderful lives. And if you must share details, do it in words - not with graphic images that mostly lead to a generalized hatred of mankind, nothing more.

I read a story about a middle aged, female postal worker shot dead by a man because the PO would not deliver the mail to his house due to an aggressive dog on the property. The guy went and found her on her route, they had an argument, he threatened her, she pepper sprayed him, and he shot her dead.

Then I read another story about a man who clubbed a 75 year old woman over the head with an iron pipe so he coud steal one of the pizzas she was carrying. An iron pipe? A PIZZA??

So, yeah - some people are the utter scum of the earth. A lot more people than we'd like to think, and this is nowhere more obvious than in all the various animal harvesting markets. How we treat pigs in the US, for example, should be a crime. We don't need to go to China to see animals living in abject agony. Puppy mills, for example... The list is endless.

So donate. Advocate. Start petitions. Call your local member or your senator. Rescue a dog. Sponsor an elephant. Protest the use of lab animals. By-pass Chinese products. Do something proactive - it's our responsibility.

But it can start from a place of hope, rather than utter despair.

Now go pat your dog, and make sure that at least ONE animal on the planet is having the life they all should have.

@mrs-b , the image that I used was taken directly from the HSi website. If images like that “have been proven time and time again to be less effective at garnering support” then why in the world would Humane Society International , and countless other rescue organizations even use them??? I really fail to see your logic there. Do you have the stats to back that up? If so, please forward them to HSI so that they can stop wasting precious funding on useless advertising. Also,I have been rescuing, spaying, neutering and adopting animals all of my adult life, 50 years plus. I really don‘t need any advice in that regard. What I had hoped to find on PS, were other caring human beings who would take the time to visit HSI and educate themselves on the wet markets, which is a world wide problem and , mark my words, will be the cause of another pandemic if they aren’t shut down. I also hoped to gather suggestions on other ways to help.
Thank you again to @missy ,@SandyinAnaheim , and all the other caring and compassionate PS members who offered concrete ideas and support. I never meant to cause anyone such distress. Many difficult topics have been discussed on PS . Mine was not the first difficult thread. I had no idea that there were some members here who are so emotionally fragile to the point of being just about to go over the edge. Or perhaps they just like to rant and rave and garner sympathy?
This will be my last post here. @whitewave can continue to focus her anger on me if that makes her feel better. My focus is going to be on helping these animals as much as I can. I hope that other PS members will too. It is easier to look away and ,over time, you won’t think about these things and can go back to discussing gems and such. I really wish that I could do that too but ,if we all look away until we forget, who is going to help these animals?

 

[OboeGal]

I'm not liking seeing people attacked.

I don't like seeing @whitewave treated harshly; clearly she is struggling and hurting. Regardless of how one feels about how she is handling it, she doesn't deserve to be attacked. I'm relieved that her son does not have COVID-19, I hope that her surgery goes well and is the beginning of an affirming time in her life, and I'm deeply sorry that she is struggling - I get it as I'm struggling too. I hope that she feels better very soon.

I also don't like seeing @jeaniefish attacked. Whether her approach is ideally effective or not, I cannot speak to, as I'm fairly early yet in my experience directly working in animal rescue. What does seem clear to me is she meant no harm to us Pricescopers. She, also, is struggling and in pain over the issue of animal abuse as well as practices that directly led to the current pandemic - issues I'm deeply in pain over as well. Her intentions were honorable, not malevolent, even if not everyone agrees with exactly how she went about it. It was clear to me from her title that I would be seeing or reading something deeply disturbing if I chose to click on it; my decision to do so is on me. I don't personally hold her responsible for that.

There are people in the world that deserve our ire. Those who abuse animals. Governments that lie about epidemics in their borders to the world while secretly buying up the world's supply of protective equipment. Governments that lie to their own people. People that only care about their own wealth and power and manipulate the world to take every last bit of resources for themselves. People who are actively putting others' health and lives in jeopardy to demand that their freedom to get their hair done is more important than others' lives. Serial killers. Mass murderers. Those who strip all safety and rights from others because those others are a different gender or race, or were born in a different country. Those who would try to absolutely force others to live by their religion. I could go on and on. I imagine those folks are delighted when they see those of us who are good in our hearts - like @whitewave, like @jeaniefish, like the rest of us posting here - turn on each other instead of keeping our focus on the real evil they are doing.

I ask that we each take a deep breath and keep loving each other here so that we can focus our rage - and our energy - where it really needs to go.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

@SandyinAnaheim I know what pustulant means and your post was full of puss. I didn't find any of the negativity you refer to in whitewave's posts. This is an admitted hot button for you and you lost perspective about when to simply stay quiet, because there are times when we should stay quiet in order to not fan the flames further.

I did not read jeaniefish's post but, because it appeared to contain a photo or vid of a suffering animal, I hoped it would be deleted or at least amended to remove the photo/vid. As I said earlier on, there are ways to garner support without using shock and awe. I'm in agreement with the sentiment that here, now, is not the time to be confronted by painful images.

I hope you and whitewave forgive each other for not being perfect.

Apparently you do not know what pustulant means, as the further irrelevant word you used, puss, means:

puss
(po͝os) Informal
n.
1. A cat.
2. Archaic A girl or young woman. Used as a term of endearment.
3. Offensive Slang A man regarded as weak, timid, or unmanly.

You must have meant pus. Which again, it completely irrelevant herein.

pus
(pŭs)
n.
A generally viscous, yellowish-white fluid formed in infected tissue, consisting of white blood cells, cellular debris, and necrotic tissue.

Perhaps this is a time for YOU to "simply stay quiet and not to be fanning flames" on a subject you care little for and apparently know nothing of. You SHOULD read @jeaniefish's SECOND post so you could be slightly more educated on what you think you are opining on, instead of simply being ignorant and reacting to other people's incomprehensible tantrums. Her first post was already pulled because someone else was offended because she mentioned a certain "culture" that is infamous for animal abuse.

 

[Matata]

@SandyinAnaheim....sorry for the typo I meant pus as in yellow oozing infectiously mean. I didn't see whitewave's post that was deleted.

I've been active in animal rescue, domestic animals as well as wildlife, for 35 years. I'm working with local and national animal rights groups to enact legislation giving protection to domestic animals and wildlife. I also work against animal rights groups that want to take away people's rights to have companion animals or dictate which types of animals people can share their lives with. It was my work 2 years ago that prevented BCR, the Humane Society of the US and a few other animal rights groups from successfully lobbying that California make it illegal to own Safari, Bengal, and Savannah cats. I am the registered owner of a non profit in my state dedicated to animal protection. I have been a licensed wildlife rehabber for 35 years and work closely with my state dept. of fish and wildlife on a host of issues.

I have seen every type of cruelty that can possibly be inflicted on an animal, spend at least one day a month in a major meltdown mourning the animals that die on my watch and the ones I have to euthanize and I have an abiding disrespect of those who believe that an animal's life is less valuable than a human's. I've taken a lot of heat when I've expressed that opinion when I've been interviewed by the media.

Instead of making assumptions about me based on your own ignorance, perhaps you could have asked what I specifically thought about animal cruelty and whether I had any experience with it. Instead, you persist in irrational attacks. Peace out.

 

[mrs-b]

@mrs-b , the image that I used was taken directly from the HSi website. If images like that “have been proven time and time again to be less effective at garnering support” then why in the world would Humane Society International , and countless other rescue organizations even use them??? I really fail to see your logic there. Do you have the stats to back that up? If so, please forward them to HSI so that they can stop wasting precious funding on useless advertising. Also,I have been rescuing, spaying, neutering and adopting animals all of my adult life, 50 years plus. I really don‘t need any advice in that regard. What I had hoped to find on PS, were other caring human beings who would take the time to visit HSI and educate themselves on the wet markets, which is a world wide problem and , mark my words, will be the cause of another pandemic if they aren’t shut down. I also hoped to gather suggestions on other ways to help.
Thank you again to @missy ,@SandyinAnaheim , and all the other caring and compassionate PS members who offered concrete ideas and support. I never meant to cause anyone such distress. Many difficult topics have been discussed on PS . Mine was not the first difficult thread. I had no idea that there were some members here who are so emotionally fragile to the point of being just about to go over the edge. Or perhaps they just like to rant and rave and garner sympathy?
This will be my last post here. @whitewave can continue to focus her anger on me if that makes her feel better. My focus is going to be on helping these animals as much as I can. I hope that other PS members will too. It is easier to look away and ,over time, you won’t think about these things and can go back to discussing gems and such. I really wish that I could do that too but ,if we all look away until we forget, who is going to help these animals?

Hi @jeaniefish -

I'm currently actively involved - both practically and financially - in dog rescue, big cat rescue, elephant rescue, horse and bull treatment in Europe, bear rehoming in eartern Europe - and a bunch of other things. Nobody is more committed to this cause than me. Nobody. (OK - I just read @Matata's post above. She might surpass me on this!)

Do I have the stats to hand? No. If you read my threads you'd know I'm currently in hospital for a heart attack and will be having a cath procedure to open up a blockage tomorrow. So no, I don't have the stats to hand and have no interest in contacting the HSI. But do feel free to look them up yourself - they're out there. I did the work to find them, so I'm sure you're as computer savvy as me and could find them also if you care to look long enough.

Good wishes to all of us in this important, ongoing fight for animal rights.

 

[Matata]

the image that I used was taken directly from the HSi website. If images like that “have been proven time and time again to be less effective at garnering support” then why in the world would Humane Society International , and countless other rescue organizations even use them??? I really fail to see your logic there.

They use those photos to prey on gullible people who love animals because they want money and they are fully aware of what they're doing, There are those who respond to that type of advertising and those who don't. Kelly Block heads both HSUS and HSI and has yet to gain my trust. The stench of Wayne Pacelle's legacy has yet to dissipate and the evil alliance with Big Cat Rescue, ALDF, and PETA still resonates. https://humanewatch.org/10-things-you-should-know-about-hsus/ https://humanewatch.org/wayne-pacelles-deception-continues/ If Block hasn't denounced the HSUS manifesto to end "ownership" of all domestic animals and believes that all farm animals should be set free to live a life of unicorns and rainbows roaming the great green plains of the US then she's no better than Pacelle.

I am appalled at the celebs who endorse some of these organizations. It's difficult for me to believe they (including Jane Goodall of all people) have done research into the nature of their activities and especially how the money is spent.

Gullible people swallow their lies and perpetuate them. When we had the hearing in Calif. re: cat ownership, HSUS and BCR representatives, who had formed an alliance to end ownership of all pets, came armed with their usual lies -- these cats will (direct quotes) "eat your grandmother" "will breed with wild cats and create a dangerous super species" "are dropped off in droves in shelters because they are unmanageable" "never use a litterbox" "have killed people". Well guess what ..... they had no data to support those accusations but because they repeated them every where, spent tons on false advertising, and because a lot of people never questioned whether such venerable organizations were truthful, they were successful in getting some states to ban these cats as illegal to own.

Yeah, that greatly annoyed me so I developed surveys sent to veterinarians, shelters, owners of those breeds -- a huge number of people -- well over 300,000, addressing those specific allegations as well as some others and received a statistically significant number of responses, compiled the results, did the graphs and powerpoint, assembled binders with the info and our lawyer presented it at the hearing with CA fish and game. HSUS, BCR et al representatives didn't know what to do and slunk out with their tails between their legs.

Can you tell I'm still bitter? The purpose of my rant is simply to caution that people do due diligence to determine that their money goes where they think it's going, that organizations are giving an honest portrayal of their actions, that their CEOs aren't crooks, that they don't have hidden agendas, and that those good hearted citizens aren't hoodwinked into supporting dishonest animal rights groups based on photos of animals in wretched circumstances. These large groups are not exempt from deceit and corruption.

 

[Lilith112]

My bigger issue with the post was its misinformation, namely how it misinterprets wet markets.

Wet markets exist throughout Asia-- not just China. At their most basic, wet markets are just an open market that sells daily groceries, e.g. vegetables, meat, seafood, etc. Wet markets even exist in the U.S., namely NYC Chinatown.

Shutting down every wet market would be catastrophic since they offer daily groceries at half the price of grocery stores in Asia. For various reasons, grocery stores are 1). not common and 2). seen as a Western luxury. Thus, shutting down ALL wet markets would directly hurt lower income families throughout China.

Personally, I've shopped at wet markets in China. I live in Shanghai, where the municipal government constantly conducts surprise inspections and spot checks so the wet markets here just sell normal meat-- namely duck, pork, chicken, and beef. Of course, wet markets which also sell dog & exotic meats do exist, but saying that all wet markets do is incorrect.

Moreover, the idea that it originated from the wet markets hasn't been proven yet. While most of the scientific community agrees it originated from bats, exactly how it transmitted to humans hasn't been determined yet. In fact, the current purported first patient-- based on current knowledge-- supposedly had no interaction with the wet market per this article.

TLDR, not all wet markets sell exotic meat, wet markets ensure food access for lower income families, and the causative link between wet markets and COVID-19 hasn't been found yet.

 

[voce]

For the love of GOD @whitewave, the picture is only of a mangy dog sitting in a cage awaiting its fate. You make it seem like it is being butchered alive or tortured in the moment. I could post pictures on here that would make that picture look like a birthday party.

I got the same impression as Sandy from how whitewave reacted. I mean, I can't deny animal cruelty exists, and I defend jeaniefish's right to post any content she wants, but I think it slightly offends me for jeaniefish to ask us to "please not look away" without warning of the content. Due to drama pertaining to people I love, which Dakota my energy and bandwidth to deal with further updating things, I also avoided watching whatever it was because I don't want to tip too far and become clinically depressed.

The real world is full of complex issues, and I agree with @Matata that organizations that really on graphic content that cause visceral reactions aren't always the ones best at actually furthering the cause they are calling people to support.

I will also say that I appreciate Lilith for having the courage to present what is sure to be a different and what I think is sure to be (at least in Europe language media) an unpopular perspective. Before the coronavirus hit the past six months, I who am fluent enough in Chinese to write and publish a travel essay in Chinese media had no concept of what a "wet" market referred to. As I recalled, there were supermarkets（超市）, and there were regular food markets（菜市）, and that's how I would have translated it prior to this pandemic. Supermarkets were like the Walmarts of China, carrying more products than strictly groceries, whereas the regular food markets exclusively sold food. Some "markets" were farmers laying out vegetables and eggs on the street just beneath apartment buildings, no meat involved, so I'm curious whether those open markets would be considered "wet" markets, since vegetables involve no animal cruelty. If so, I have shopped and eaten many vegetables from many such markets without seeing a single dog for sale; I recall occasionally seeing a couple chickens and fish. The chickens were never slaughtered at the market, but were available for purchase live and to be slaughtered by the customer at their home. This is my personal experience, not representative of all wet markets, but exotic animals at wet markets aren't representative of all wet markets, either.

Most of my acquaintances in China do shop at indoor supermarkets where everything is sanitary and packaged, and they do so because it's more upscale and a more pleasant shopping experience. You can reason that in Chinese cities, where the population density is so high, and real estate is more expensive per square area, the cost to maintain and operate an indoor market will drive food prices up compared to the prices at wet markets. So part of the reason wet markets are still around is income inequality, which also affects most of Southeast Asia and South Asia as well as China.

I think as a species, humans are neurologically prone to oversimplifying complex issues to satisfy the human need for a narrative. I personally aim to stay cerebral and not be emotionally affected by things I cannot change. I can hope people will evolve to be more humane, but that will take time.