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VS2 eyeclean or not?

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
I am looking at purchasing this diamond secondhand. The seller can't tell me whether it is eyeclean or not, and his pictures online are not good enough to see and he doesn't have a macro lens. I am trying to figure out if this stone is eyeclean or not as the clarity setting inclusion is a huge inclusion in the middle of the table. I'm attaching a picture of the clarity plot. What do you guys think? I don't have an "eagle eye" by the way. I am a normal person, not someone who sees gemstones on a daily basis. I'm trying to get it somewhere in the 40-50 below range.

Round diamond 1.38ct GIA Diamond gia report 2161130991
From Gia report check DATE OF ISSUE May 9, 2014
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements 7.08 - 7.12 x 4.43 mm
Carat Weight 1.38 carat
Color Grade J
Clarity Grade VS2
Cut Grade Excellent

PROPORTIONS
Depth 62.4 %
Table 58 %
Crow Angle 36.0°
Crown Height 15.5%
Pavilion Angle 41.2°
Pavilion Depth 43.5%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle Medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None

FINISH
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

Fluorescence Faint

Clarity Characteristics
Crystal, Needle, Cloud

COMMENTS
Additional clouds are not shown.
Pinpoints are not shown.


Cut: Excellent printimages_0.jpg
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3,809
Most importantly, this diamond is not well cut at all. The angles are not complimentary and it will likely have leakage with that high of a crown angle coupled with the steep pavilion angle. Not a recipe for a good performer. I'd strongly advise you consider other stones.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.
table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

To answer your question, though, it's possible it could be eye clean from a certain distance since it's a VS2. Could you ask whether the crystals are black or white? Problem is, once you spot them...will you be able to "unsee" them, especially if it's a poorly cut stone?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
I agree with ac117. That is not a diamond I would consider because of the cut. You could do a 35.5 crown angle with a 40.6 pavilion angle, but this is far out of the range I consider safe. I also would not consider buying when the seller can't tell you if it is eyeclean! There is no other way to determine that other than to see it.
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
Ok I have moved on to a new diamond. What do you guys think of this one? Per the seller: It faces up larger than 1.3 carats, is completely eye clean and is very bright and white. It has hearts and arrows symmetry and extraordinary fire. He has it listed as an ideal cut.

GIA REPORT NUMBER 2146167391
DATE OF ISSUE Oct. 27, 2012
DIAMOND GRADING REPORT
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements 7.11 - 7.14 x 4.24 mm
Carat Weight 1.30 carat
Color Grade I
Clarity Grade VS2
Cut Grade Excellent

PROPORTIONS
Depth 59.5 %
Table 60 %
Crown Angle 33.0°
Crown Height 13.0%
Pavilion Angle 41.0°
Pavilion Depth 43.5%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet None

FINISH

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

Fluorescence None

Clarity Characteristics Cloud, Feather, Crystal, Needle

COMMENTS
Additional clouds are not shown.
Pinpoints are not shown.

3_184.jpg 2_248.jpg 1_474.jpg 4_110.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
I wouldn't consider it ideal cut, but it is a nice 60/60 style stone which is what makes it have the good spread. I think this one has potential.

I found the ring. It is a good deal including the platinum setting.
 

dan1230

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
26
Apologies if this is against forum policy but where are you looking at for used diamonds?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
dan1230|1472242737|4070335 said:
Apologies if this is against forum policy but where are you looking at for used diamonds?
I'll be glad to recommend some places for you, but I won't list the particular place he is looking until he has a chance to complete his purchase. I didn't see anything else there worth recommending, just so you know!

Many people here sell diamonds and rings to upgrade or whatever, so loupetroop.com is a great place to look because you do come across PS vendor diamonds now and then. There are a couple of jewelry items listed now with fine diamonds under a carat.
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
I am looking to purchase this stone secondhand. It looks like the twinning wisps will be eyeclean, the girdle is towards the smaller of the ideal girdle range, the crown angle is high at 36 degrees, and this seller won't post any ideal scope/aset images (it is a secondhand transaction). But the price I am getting for the stone would be alright if the stone was an excellent light performer and even if it wasn't and ideal or near ideal cut. Does anyone have an opinion on this type of stone?

GIA REPORT NUMBER
2156779716

DATE OF ISSUE
Oct. 2, 2013

DIAMOND GRADING REPORT
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements 6.85 - 6.88 x 4.26 mm
Carat Weight 1.22 carat
Color Grade I
Clarity Grade SI1
Cut Grade Excellent
PROPORTIONS

Depth 62.1 %
Table 56 %
Crown Angle 36.0°
Crown Height 16.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.6°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None

FINISH

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

Fluorescence None


Clarity Characteristics Twinning Wisp, Feather

COMMENTS
Additional twinning wisps are not shown.
Surface graining is not shown.

INSCRIPTION(S)
GIA 2156779716

HCA information:

Selected: 62.1% depth, 56% table, 36° crown angle, 40.6° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.8 - Excellent
within FIC range

_38101.jpg

_38102.jpg
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,314
n64bomb|1472401320|4070893 said:
I am looking to purchase this stone secondhand. It looks like the twinning wisps will be eyeclean, the girdle is towards the smaller of the ideal girdle range, the crown angle is high at 36 degrees, and this seller won't post any ideal scope/aset images (it is a secondhand transaction). But the price I am getting for the stone would be alright if the stone was an excellent light performer and even if it wasn't and ideal or near ideal cut. Does anyone have an opinion on this type of stone?

GIA REPORT NUMBER
2156779716

DATE OF ISSUE
Oct. 2, 2013

DIAMOND GRADING REPORT
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements 6.85 - 6.88 x 4.26 mm
Carat Weight 1.22 carat
Color Grade I
Clarity Grade SI1
Cut Grade Excellent
PROPORTIONS

Depth 62.1 %
Table 56 %
Crown Angle 36.0°
Crown Height 16.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.6°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet None

FINISH

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

Fluorescence None


Clarity Characteristics Twinning Wisp, Feather

COMMENTS
Additional twinning wisps are not shown.
Surface graining is not shown.
As a trades person I cannot comment specifically on another merchant's diamond. So the following comments pertain to any diamond with the same cert parameters.

Assuming you have a return period, it is strongly advised that you consult with a qualified third party expert before you are locked in. You are putting alot of focus on cut quality (good thinking!), but clarity features can sometimes negate even the best cutting by scattering light.

An Si1 with twinning wisps as the grade setter, coupled with additional wisps and graining under comments, presents a higher than average chance that the stone will be slightly sleepy. This can be a subtle effect and difficult for someone without a lot of experience looking at diamonds to detect. But if present, this will be a permanent characteristic of the diamond that will undermine the light performance you would otherwise have enjoyed by buying a well cut diamond.
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
Here is the clarity plot. I thought I attached it earlier. I had to enlarge it a lot so it is fuzzy :). That is the best quality I could get it. Not sure if this helps. It seems like the wisps are lined up parallel to each other.

11.jpeg
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
Also I am buying on a site that is a 3rd party and escrows my money and the seller sends it to the 3rd party and they have a gia graduate gemologist with 30 years experience review it before it is released to me.

These are things listed on the website that the independent gemologist checks and can reject a stone
1. The cut, clarity, carat or color is different than that listed
2. The general appearance or shape is different from what is listed
3. The item is different from pictures posted on the listing
4. Our gemologist determines that the diamond contains inclusion(s) that make the diamond highly susceptible to breakage.

Maybe I can make an offer that is contingent on the stone not being hazy, or the seller can provide more pictures. Right now I'm asking for more pictures in different lighting. Thanks for all the help so far :)
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,314
n64bomb|1472406178|4070924 said:
Also I am buying on a site that is a 3rd party and escrows my money and the seller sends it to the 3rd party and they have a gia graduate gemologist with 30 years experience review it before it is released to me.

These are things listed on the website that the independent gemologist checks and can reject a stone
1. The cut, clarity, carat or color is different than that listed
2. The general appearance or shape is different from what is listed
3. The item is different from pictures posted on the listing
4. Our gemologist determines that the diamond contains inclusion(s) that make the diamond highly susceptible to breakage.

Maybe I can make an offer that is contingent on the stone not being hazy, or the seller can provide more pictures. Right now I'm asking for more pictures in different lighting. Thanks for all the help so far :)
That sounds reasonable in general. I don't know exactly how that works or who is actually paying for the gemological services, but I would feel better if the gemologist was working only for you. Particularly in light of this particular characteristic which is more of a judgement call, but an important one.

A VS grade with the same characteristics would be a lot less prone to this concern, in which case I probably would not have posted cautionary advice.
 

SeekingClarity

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Messages
133
bryan.boyne.gg said:
n64bomb|1472406178|4070924 said:
Also I am buying on a site that is a 3rd party and escrows my money and the seller sends it to the 3rd party and they have a gia graduate gemologist with 30 years experience review it before it is released to me.

These are things listed on the website that the independent gemologist checks and can reject a stone
1. The cut, clarity, carat or color is different than that listed
2. The general appearance or shape is different from what is listed
3. The item is different from pictures posted on the listing
4. Our gemologist determines that the diamond contains inclusion(s) that make the diamond highly susceptible to breakage.

Maybe I can make an offer that is contingent on the stone not being hazy, or the seller can provide more pictures. Right now I'm asking for more pictures in different lighting. Thanks for all the help so far :)
That sounds reasonable in general. I don't know exactly how that works or who is actually paying for the gemological services, but I would feel better if the gemologist was working only for you. Particularly in light of this particular characteristic which is more of a judgement call, but an important one.

A VS grade with the same characteristics would be a lot less prone to this concern, in which case I probably would not have posted cautionary advice.
Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread!

Just wanted to thank Texas Leaguer for that clarification, as I've just purchased a VC ideal heart VS2 with twinning wisps and surface graining in the comments and was concerned about it being sleepy as noted above.


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