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VS1 clarity but black spots - help!?

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mbf365

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
24
Hi all,

We have a diamond on hold at Blue Nile that is exactly what we're looking for. The only problem is that the magnified view of the stone is freaking us out a bit. It's a VS1 clarity so in theory, we should not see any of the inclusions in real life. However, the inclusions and pinpoints do seem to be quite dark compared to those in other VS1 diamonds that we've seen.

Check out the diamond here (and scroll down past the message at the top, as I mentioned, we have this one on hold):
https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD09929777

Thoughts? Should we look for a cleaner VS1?

Thanks in advance!
 
You will never see any of that. It is a grossly magnified image. All VS1's are eye clean. If this particular VS1 isn't "mind clean" to you, then you may need to go to VVS or IF. But if you're only worried about being able to see inclusions in real life, then you could go down to VS2 (or even some SI) and save some cash and/or get a larger stone.
 
Thanks for your response.

In an ideal world, I would like a mind-clean diamond, but realistically, we'd have to go down in color or carat to make that happen.

What is your opinion on G vs. H color? There is a diamond that's very similar to this one except it's a VVS2 (so would be mind-clean!) but it's an H color. I'm a little worried I'll be disappointed with the H once I get it ... on the flip side, it's also $500 cheaper, which is obviously nice!
 
No possibility of seeing that with the eye, and it would be difficult with a 10x loupe. You have no worries with VS1. You'll see H color far more easily than you'd see these inclusions.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
No possibility of seeing that with the eye, and it would be difficult with a 10x loupe. You have no worries with VS1. You'll see H color far more easily than you'd see these inclusions.
Click to expand...

Agreed! Spend your money on things you can appreciate. The eye can see the difference in colors, but cannot tell the difference in a VVS1 or a VS2 (sometimes even in an SI that's eye clean). And, really, the VS1 isn't totally clean... if you magnify it enough, you'll see the "scary" inclusions. You just have to ask yourself how many people will be viewing your diamond with a microscope or even a loupe, for that matter. I'd venture to guess the answer is none.

Don't spend money on something you can't appreciate. I'd go G/VS2. Well, I'd go lower than that, bc I'm a size whore... but that's a whole other thread. ;-)
 
mbf365 said:
Thanks for your response.

In an ideal world, I would like a mind-clean diamond, but realistically, we'd have to go down in color or carat to make that happen.

What is your opinion on G vs. H color? There is a diamond that's very similar to this one except it's a VVS2 (so would be mind-clean!) but it's an H color. I'm a little worried I'll be disappointed with the H once I get it ... on the flip side, it's also $500 cheaper, which is obviously nice!
Click to expand...

My opinion is that H is white... period. If I were choosing between G and H, I'd get the largest H I could find that was eye clean. This is what I would do... but I am not you. I have a 3.33 ct I/SI2 and it's white enough for me, given the size. Again, my priority was size over color. As long as you your stone is well cut, your decision will simply depend on your color sensitivity and preference factored in with the size you hope to reach in combination with your budget.
 
Oh, I agree that H is a nice color! I was just saying of the two choices of G VS1 or H VVS, I'd take the G if both were equal in cut! But whether the the price difference is worth it depends on budget.
 
I know those inclusions look big and scary in the super-magnified pics and videos. But honestly? You’d have trouble finding those even with a 10x loupe, much less with your naked eye. I agree with everyone else that spending the extra money for anything beyond eye-clean is pretty much unnecessary. You’d be better off to spend your dollars for a larger size and/or higher color grade if those things are important to you.
 
Irishgrrrl said:
I know those inclusions look big and scary in the super-magnified pics and videos. But honestly? You’d have trouble finding those even with a 10x loupe, much less with your naked eye. I agree with everyone else that spending the extra money for anything beyond eye-clean is pretty much unnecessary. You’d be better off to spend your dollars for a larger size and/or higher color grade if those things are important to you.
Click to expand...

This EXACTLY!!! My holy grail would be an H/SI2 that was completely eye clean... and the size of a door knob. Just teasing, but you know what I mean. Honestly, my I is super white -- I feel it must be a "high" I. I'd do I color again if it meant getting noticeably more coverage than in an H.

...and it likely would. ;-)
 
msop04 said:
This EXACTLY!!! My holy grail would be an H/SI2 that was completely eye clean... and the size of a door knob. Just teasing, but you know what I mean. Honestly, my I is super white -- I feel it must be a "high" I. I'd do I color again if it meant getting more noticeably more coverage than in an H.

...and it likely would. ;-)
Click to expand...

We have the same priorities! LOL! I’d go as low in clarity as possible, and I’d go as low as an L/M in an antique cut. Gimme that SIZE!!! :love:
 
Irishgrrrl said:
We have the same priorities! LOL! I’d go as low in clarity as possible, and I’d go as low as an L/M in an antique cut. Gimme that SIZE!!! :love:
Click to expand...

Girrrrrlllll, YAAAAAASSSSSS!!! In an antique, I'd go to at least K or L! Hell, maybe lower if the size/price was right... if I know myself at all. #sizewhoresunite :wavey:;)2
 
Thanks for weighing in everyone :) I'm definitely feeling better about the magnified inclusions!

I don't want to complicate things further BUT we did just notice another diamond that came available on the site that is VERY similar, but with even less noticeable inclusions.
https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond...MONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=sameTab

My boyfriend is a bit obsessed with using the HCA tool and when he plugged it in, it scored a 1. Is that ok? We did read somewhere that diamonds that score 1 or lower on that scale are actually not the best and that we should be looking for ones that score between 1.1 and 2.

So many factors to think about! Thank goodness there are forums like this as none of our friends/family know anything about diamonds!
 
msop04 said:
Girrrrrlllll, YAAAAAASSSSSS!!! In an antique, I'd go to at least K or L! Hell, maybe lower if the size/price was right... if I know myself at all. #sizewhoresunite :wavey:;)2
Click to expand...

#sizewhores4lyfe :lol:
 
mbf365 said:
Thanks for weighing in everyone :) I'm definitely feeling better about the magnified inclusions!

I don't want to complicate things further BUT we did just notice another diamond that came available on the site that is VERY similar, but with even less noticeable inclusions.
https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond...MONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=sameTab
Click to expand...

The HCA is not a selection tool. It is a rejection tool. Anything under 2.0 warrants further consideration. Both those stones are 60/60's (which I like). I like the look of the 1.12 better. It looks to have more defined arrows. ...but really, you're splitting hairs.

I like sub 1.0 HCA stones with complimentary angles bc they typically face up larger. If you look at the explanation on the HCA for both stones, the 1.11 ct (HCA 1.5) only received EX marks in fire and light return, whereas the 1.12 (HCA 1.0) got EX on all four factors (fire, light return, spread, and scintillation).

ETA: ANYTHING under 2.0 goes... 1.5 is not better than 0.7, and vice versa
 
mbf365 said:
Thanks for weighing in everyone :) I'm definitely feeling better about the magnified inclusions!

I don't want to complicate things further BUT we did just notice another diamond that came available on the site that is VERY similar, but with even less noticeable inclusions.
https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond...MONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=sameTab

My boyfriend is a bit obsessed with using the HCA tool and when he plugged it in, it scored a 1. Is that ok? We did read somewhere that diamonds that score 1 or lower on that scale are actually not the best and that we should be looking for ones that score between 1.1 and 2.

So many factors to think about! Thank goodness there are forums like this as none of our friends/family know anything about diamonds!
Click to expand...

Looks like they’re both G/VS1, and almost exactly the same carat weight so very comparable in those respects. Looks like the first one is priced a bit better than the second, but will face up a touch smaller. I’ll leave the HCA assessment to those who are more familiar with it than I am, since I’m more of a fancy shape enthusiast.

Does one of them catch your eye more than the other? We often talk about how you should “buy the stone that speaks to you.” Do you feel that way about either of these? In other words, is your gut leading you towards one more than the other?

Edited because I can’t math today. :wall:
 
Last edited:
Wow! You all are so helpful!

I agree with what a few of you have said about spending the extra money for anything beyond eye-clean is pretty much unnecessary. My "gut" is telling me that color is important and that I should rule out any H stones so we've done that now. G for the win!

I'm sorry to complicate things even further, but we have one more stone we're considering (I know, it's got to stop at some point). This stone is PERFECTION. It feels like the one. But it's priced a little higher (go figures) and there is also no video of this stone (but it looks absolutely perfect on paper in terms of cut, carat, color and clarity).

https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD09407706

This one seems to have excellent proportions, almost no inclusions on the table, a great spread and is the G color that I want. But ... it is more expensive. Is it worth it? Please tell me your thoughts! I promise this is the last time I'll ask haha!
 
mbf365 said:
Wow! You all are so helpful!

I agree with what a few of you have said about spending the extra money for anything beyond eye-clean is pretty much unnecessary. My "gut" is telling me that color is important and that I should rule out any H stones so we've done that now. G for the win!

I'm sorry to complicate things even further, but we have one more stone we're considering (I know, it's got to stop at some point). This stone is PERFECTION. It feels like the one. But it's priced a little higher (go figures) and there is also no video of this stone (but it looks absolutely perfect on paper in terms of cut, carat, color and clarity).

https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD09407706

This one seems to have excellent proportions, almost no inclusions on the table, a great spread and is the G color that I want. But ... it is more expensive. Is it worth it? Please tell me your thoughts! I promise this is the last time I'll ask haha!
Click to expand...

The statement I bolded above tells me all I need to know. Your heart is telling you that this is your stone. If your budget can stretch enough, then I’d go with this one. Maybe set it in a relatively simple (and thus more affordable) solitaire for now and then upgrade the setting for a future anniversary if you want to. Less money spent on the setting right now = more of your budget available to spend on the stone. :))

ETA: Don’t ever feel bad about asking questions! We’ve ALL been there, trust me! ;)2
 
There's no such thing as the perfect diamond without pictures!. It'll probably be fine, but I would never buy without a photo. Two identical specs on paper could look remarkably different, remember these values are averages, not absolute
 
gm89uk said:
There's no such thing as the perfect diamond without pictures!. It'll probably be fine, but I would never buy without a photo. Two identical specs on paper could look remarkably different, remember these values are averages, not absolute
Click to expand...

Good point. I’d ask BN to provide pics and video if possible.
 
mbf365 said:
Thanks for weighing in everyone :) I'm definitely feeling better about the magnified inclusions!

I don't want to complicate things further BUT we did just notice another diamond that came available on the site that is VERY similar, but with even less noticeable inclusions.
https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond...MONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=sameTab

My boyfriend is a bit obsessed with using the HCA tool and when he plugged it in, it scored a 1. Is that ok? We did read somewhere that diamonds that score 1 or lower on that scale are actually not the best and that we should be looking for ones that score between 1.1 and 2.

So many factors to think about! Thank goodness there are forums like this as none of our friends/family know anything about diamonds!
Click to expand...

As a member of the trade, I may not comment on individual diamonds and have in fact not followed either link. I want to comment on your comment about the HCA.

When you read somewhere about stones that score 1 or under are actually not the best, I wish to say that what you read was flat out wrong. The HCA is not designed to decide that a diamond at 1.9 is not quite as good as a diamond at 1.5 or is better than a diamond at 0.8. Those who try to say it is, are, quite simply, mistaken. Garry Holloway, who created the HCA (Holloway Cut Advisor), created it as a rejection/followup tool. Diamonds that score over 2.0 can be largely rejected out of hand if you are looking for a super cut. If the diamond is 2.0 or under, it is worthy of a followup look go see if it meets your requirements.

That is all that it is designed to do. Anything more than that is a short cut that may or may not work. If you accept the short cut you will buy some bad stones and miss some incredible stones. Too bad, as proper follow up will lead you to a great stone, the search having been made easier by proper use of the HCA tool.

Wink

P.S. Proof reading this, I realize that it might sound slightly harsh. Please know my tone of voice is meant to be helpful. I really want you to find the diamond that is right for you.
 
OP
If it is in your head and will always be in your head about that inclusion, and if you buy the stone you will always be looking for it, then the solution would be not to buy that stone but to move on. You have every right, after paying the money for the stone to be 100% happy, and not have second thoughts, it is a big deal. If you do decide to move on, the experts on this forum can find you what seems to be called around here, a "mind clean" diamond. The experts on this forum use ASETS, HCA tables, etc. Good luck.

PS. The HCA results are not a selection tool but rather a rejection tool.
 
Hi all! I'm back :hand:.

We've taken your advice about clarity and done some further research of our own and are feeling confident in the final two stones that we're deciding between. Now that we've put our worries about clarity to bed (we're confident VS1 is going to be eye and mind clean enough for us!) I want your opinions on the better stone outside of just clarity. We feel good about both of them, it's a matter of finally pulling the trigger on one. They are very similar in specs, with the 1.15 priced a bit higher ($550 CAD more). There is only a stock image of the 1.15 online but they sent us a photo and it looks great.

Thoughts??

1.15: https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD09407706
Triple X
G
VS1
$11,050 CAD

1.11: https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD09929777
Triple X
G
VS1
$10,509 CAD

I am completely torn and am by no means a diamond expert. Is there a clear winner??
 
mbf365 said:
Hi all! I'm back :hand:.

We've taken your advice about clarity and done some further research of our own and are feeling confident in the final two stones that we're deciding between. Now that we've put our worries about clarity to bed (we're confident VS1 is going to be eye and mind clean enough for us!) I want your opinions on the better stone outside of just clarity. We feel good about both of them, it's a matter of finally pulling the trigger on one. They are very similar in specs, with the 1.15 priced a bit higher ($550 CAD more). There is only a stock image of the 1.15 online but they sent us a photo and it looks great.

Thoughts??

1.15: https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD09407706
Triple X
G
VS1
$11,050 CAD

1.11: https://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD09929777
Triple X
G
VS1
$10,509 CAD

I am completely torn and am by no means a diamond expert. Is there a clear winner??
Click to expand...

Both should be great, I love the second one and me being nitpicky would like an image of the first just to judge the overall cut precision and to see how well the angles work, but you could certainly pick the cheaper one, it's a beauty as far as I can see. Some might prefer the 57 to the 58 table but you wouldn't notice any visual difference.

On paper both have enormous potential.
 
I’m with @Lorelei ... I really like the look of the 1.11 stone... and it costs less. There ya go! ;))
 
Thanks @Lorelei and @msop04!

We love the look of the 1.11 as well and the only reason we were still considering the 1.15 is because it has a cleaner table. But with both stones being VS1 ... I don't think we should really be taking that into account given that we won't see inclusions in either of them without a loupe anyway.

Would you agree?
 
mbf365 said:
Thanks @Lorelei and @msop04!

We love the look of the 1.11 as well and the only reason we were still considering the 1.15 is because it has a cleaner table. But with both stones being VS1 ... I don't think we should really be taking that into account given that we won't see inclusions in either of them without a loupe anyway.

Would you agree?
Click to expand...

I would indeed agree! Also bear in mind that in reality, the stone will be around the size of a pencil eraser and even with really young eyes, you'd never see inclusions unaided.
 
Wink

The HCA page now has a bar graph against the results which places scores of 1 and under as being better as PENDANT stones. This is what the OP is referring to probably.
 
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