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Vivid blue round diamond

reallyanewbie

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The table is 68% on a 1.4 carat stone, depth is 59%. The table is really large, but I take it that is the way to cut a FCD diamond. You can see the fisheye effect, but for an FCD is that a real concern ? its a very nice strong color, so you tend not to see the fish eye. Polish and sym are VG.
 

kenny

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reallyanewbie|1460479688|4018319 said:
The table is 68% on a 1.4 carat stone, depth is 59%. The table is really large, but I take it that is the way to cut a FCD diamond. You can see the fisheye effect, but for an FCD is that a real concern ? its a very nice strong color, so you tend not to see the fish eye. Polish and sym are VG.
"The way" all diamonds are cut is to maximize profit.
For a few white diamonds that means for good light performance, but for most it's for weight retention.

In the FCD world maximizing profit is all about cutting to get the strongest color grade and of course maximum weight.
Even more so than with white diamonds light performance goes out the window.
A few FCDs happen to end up with proportions that deliver good light performance but I strongly suspect that was a coincidence and more so the result of the shape of that particular piece of rough.

I do hope you are only considering FCDs that were graded by GIA.
With no GIA report I'd suspect the origin of the color is a laboratory, not the earth.
Also be on guard for sellers who call their diamond natural.
Two things can be natural, or not ... the material, and the color.
If GIA determines both to be natural a 1.4 Fancy Vivid Blue will be priced in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

When spending this kind of money you want to be SURE of the color grade you are paying for and GIA is the gold standard of FCD grading.
If the seller of a "1.4 carat Fancy Vivid Blue diamond" did not send the FCD to GIA then you can be certain that GIA would have given lower grades than those claimed by the seller or the grades assigned by another lab.
GIA-graded diamonds are not more expensive.
They are just accurately graded.
 

reallyanewbie

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Kenny, thanks for the reply.

Light performance + great color, like a needle in a haystack. I will probably look in yellow, more out there, better odds.

But if color is superb and legit , is fisheye no concern ? I know its hard to give an answer without seeing it. I just dont have good pics available now. Is it, look at the color, ignore the fisheye that you only really notice with a 10x ?
 

kenny

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reallyanewbie|1460504971|4018514 said:
Kenny, thanks for the reply.

Light performance + great color, like a needle in a haystack. I will probably look in yellow, more out there, better odds.

But if color is superb and legit , is fisheye no concern ? I know its hard to give an answer without seeing it. I just dont have good pics available now. Is it, look at the color, ignore the fisheye that you only really notice with a 10x ?
Fisheye is fisheye, FCD or white diamond.
They only way you'd not see it in an FCD is if the color/tone was very very dark/deep.
One person may overlook cut issues if the color is good enough.
But the same diamond may not be acceptable to another shopper.

What is a fact though is FCDs are cut with much less consideration for light performance than white diamonds.

Even GIA's full Colored Diamond Report does not give any proportion data beyond depth and diameter.
That means you can't use the HCA for a round. :knockout:

FWIW, here is a PS article on fisheye.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut-fish-eye-effect

There is no law against waiting till you find both color and cut that makes you happy.
You just may be waiting years and years for such an FCD.
Vendors will tell you to not wait and buy what they have in stock now ... actually they'll likely tell you that cut doesn't matter if the color makes you happy.

But yes, yellow is the most abundant FCD color, and one of the most affordable, so enjoy your safari.
 

Rockdiamond

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To be clear – we are talking about and irradiated Diamond, yes?
If the stone has a GIA report, I'd be very interested to see it.
 

ADN

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kenny|1460480700|4018333 said:
reallyanewbie|1460479688|4018319 said:
The table is 68% on a 1.4 carat stone, depth is 59%. The table is really large, but I take it that is the way to cut a FCD diamond. You can see the fisheye effect, but for an FCD is that a real concern ? its a very nice strong color, so you tend not to see the fish eye. Polish and sym are VG.

...I do hope you are only considering FCDs that were graded by GIA.
With no GIA report I'd suspect the origin of the color is a laboratory, not the earth.
Also be on guard for sellers who call their diamond natural.
Two things can be natural, or not ... the material, and the color.
If GIA determines both to be natural a 1.4 Fancy Vivid Blue will be priced in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Hi reallyanewbie - this is good advice from kenny - - - There wouldn't be a natural/untreated 1.40ct Fancy Vivid Blue on the market for less than $750k - - we just want to make sure the vendor is being completely honest, and you aren't thinking it's colour is natural.
Hope this helps
 

kenny

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Reallyanewbie, I gotta add ...
There's absolutely nothing wrong with FCDs that are not fully natural ... IF they are priced right and there is full disclosure that either the material or the color itself, or both, are not of natural origin.
What is wrong is sellers not telling customers that one or both is not natural.

I've read many posts here about sellers claiming a blue FCD is natural when it is only the material that's natural, but the color is from treatment that the seller never bothered to mention. :nono:

It's not the buyer's fault they contacted a shady seller.

Even for FCDs that are not fully natural I'd insist it has a GIA report so I'm sure of what I'm getting.
 

Dancing Fire

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Rockdiamond|1460508783|4018536 said:
To be clear – we are talking about and irradiated Diamond, yes?
If the stone has a GIA report, I'd be very interested to see it.
Mostly likely... :wink2: Unless the OP is referring to a $1mil + stone.
 

chrono

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If the stone has been treated, why not find one that has a much better cut?
 

reallyanewbie

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I appreciate the advice. On this type of item, caution as to what I am getting is paramount.

But on a side question, getting a round fcd with the light return of an ideal cut white diamond and the color saturation of a "vivid" would be like hunting unicorns ?. The better the light return, the more you sacrifice in color. Would you say, at the end of the day, if it is amazing vivid color, who cares about light return ? unless its a personal preference, I would think 99% of the buyers out there will focus on color.Of course the stone has to have some reasonable base level.
 

chrono

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In the coloured stone world, even though colour is paramount, cut still plays an important role because the light performance will affect one's appreciation of the colour. A well cut stone returns colour to the eye, whereas a poorly cut stone leaks light through and you will see shadows or even the hand/setting through the stone.

You did not ask this question and perhaps you are deliberately avoiding answering it, but diamond aficionados and collectors would only for for FCDs with come with GIA paperwork and is proven untreated.
 

reallyanewbie

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Thanks chrono

I am only referring to untreated natural fcd with gia cert. I dont think I could even begin to go into a world of treated/artificial. Granted it might be easier, because it in some sense it can be made to order.
 

kenny

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reallyanewbie|1460558778|4018721 said:
I am only referring to untreated natural fcd with gia cert. I dont think I could even begin to go into a world of treated/artificial. Granted it might be easier, because it in some sense it can be made to order.
So, apparently you really are considering purchasing a 1.4 carat Fancy Vivid Blue diamond with a GIA report stating the origin of both the material and the color is natural.
Awesome.
Wanna get married?
No?
Wanna adopt me?
No? Dang.

Seriously, I have a solution for you.
Buy that 1.4 ct FVB, and have it recut for light performance.
Tell the cutter to ignore the effect on the color strength.
You'll lose weight, money, and the color grade may fall from Fancy Vivid to Fancy Intense.

But you'll have the best of both worlds ... and since both tone and saturation absorb some light a Fancy Intense may put on a slightly brighter light show than a Fancy Vivid.
 

kenny

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reallyanewbie|1460555662|4018697 said:
... The better the light return, the more you sacrifice in color.
Not necessarily.
Not always.
I believe it more complicated than that.
 

kenny

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I'll add ... I have a few FCDs.
Some have horrible light performance and a couple have very nice light performance.
Having both in one diamond is really really cool!

An FCD with both is a needle in the haystack.
If you have the time and the money you may find it.

If you have enough money, and think unconventionally and way outside the box, you can commission one.
 

Dancing Fire

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Please post pics of this diamond with the GIA report.
 

chrono

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Dancing Fire|1460568256|4018815 said:
Please post pics of this diamond with the GIA report.
I third this request, out of curiousity and appreciation of fine FCDs.
 

Rockdiamond

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reallyanewbie|1460555662|4018697 said:
I appreciate the advice. On this type of item, caution as to what I am getting is paramount.

But on a side question, getting a round fcd with the light return of an ideal cut white diamond and the color saturation of a "vivid" would be like hunting unicorns ?. The better the light return, the more you sacrifice in color. Would you say, at the end of the day, if it is amazing vivid color, who cares about light return ? unless its a personal preference, I would think 99% of the buyers out there will focus on color.Of course the stone has to have some reasonable base level.
For maximum light return you need a mirror.
More is not necessarily better.
"Light Performance" is a totally non specific advertising term- basically it's a person's opinion.

When I'm looking at a round brilliant G color diamond, the "performance" I'm looking for a totally different than looking at a Fancy Yellow Cushion.
If the yellow has an even saturation, and less contrast ( dark areas) it could be termed to have great light perfomance, but it woudld be totally different than the light performance of the G color stone.
Is one better than the other?
Is a chicken better than a swimming pool? They're so different comparing makes little sense.

About a GIA report with the color Fancy Vivid Blue- I would very much LOVE to see it.
 

ChristineRose

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kenny|1460560775|4018740 said:
reallyanewbie|1460558778|4018721 said:
I am only referring to untreated natural fcd with gia cert. I dont think I could even begin to go into a world of treated/artificial. Granted it might be easier, because it in some sense it can be made to order.
So, apparently you really are considering purchasing a 1.4 carat Fancy Vivid Blue diamond with a GIA report stating the origin of both the material and the color is natural.
Awesome.
Wanna get married?
No?
Wanna adopt me?
No? Dang.

Seriously, I have a solution for you.
Buy that 1.4 ct FVB, and have it recut for light performance.
Tell the cutter to ignore the effect on the color strength.
You'll lose weight, money, and the color grade may fall from Fancy Vivid to Fancy Intense.

But you'll have the best of both worlds ... and since both tone and saturation absorb some light a Fancy Intense may put on a slightly brighter light show than a Fancy Vivid.
Whoa, what if it cracks?

Seriously, I'd buy a synthetic. You're not going to be wearing a $1,000,000 diamond much anyway. Have someone grow you a synthetic and cut it AGS 000 and keep the other one in a safe. Heck, get two synthetics, one cut to match the natural and one cut to AGS 000.
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="ChristineRose|

Whoa, what if it cracks?

Seriously, I'd buy a synthetic. You're not going to be wearing a $1,000,000 diamond much anyway. Have someone grow you a synthetic and cut it AGS 000 and keep the other one in a safe. Heck, get two synthetics, one cut to match the natural and one cut to AGS 000.[/quote]



Why not???... :confused: What's the point of buying a $1mil blue diamond if you not gonna wear it? A 1.40ct stone (7mm?) isn't gonna look out of place.
 

ChristineRose

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Dancing Fire|1460588427|4018990 said:
[quote="ChristineRose|

Whoa, what if it cracks?

Seriously, I'd buy a synthetic. You're not going to be wearing a $1,000,000 diamond much anyway. Have someone grow you a synthetic and cut it AGS 000 and keep the other one in a safe. Heck, get two synthetics, one cut to match the natural and one cut to AGS 000.


Why not???... :confused: What's the point of buying a $1mil blue diamond if you not gonna wear it?[/quote]

People buy $1 mil stones as investments, not to wear. They might take it out two times a year for a special event. There aren't too many people who can afford the bodyguards or the insurance, let alone the stone itself. There are exceptions, but even they have a replica made to wear out in public. A celebrity might choose to flaunt the stone and call it a career choice, but they all need bodyguards anyhow.
 

Niel

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ChristineRose|1460589014|4018991 said:
Dancing Fire|1460588427|4018990 said:
[quote="ChristineRose|

Whoa, what if it cracks?

Seriously, I'd buy a synthetic. You're not going to be wearing a $1,000,000 diamond much anyway. Have someone grow you a synthetic and cut it AGS 000 and keep the other one in a safe. Heck, get two synthetics, one cut to match the natural and one cut to AGS 000.


Why not???... :confused: What's the point of buying a $1mil blue diamond if you not gonna wear it?
People buy $1 mil stones as investments, not to wear. They might take it out two times a year for a special event. There aren't too many people who can afford the bodyguards or the insurance, let alone the stone itself. There are exceptions, but even they have a replica made to wear out in public. A celebrity might choose to flaunt the stone and call it a career choice, but they all need bodyguards anyhow.[/quote]


To be fair, the average Joe will not even know her diamond would be worth 1mil
 

ChristineRose

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True, almost nobody will know. But once one person knows it will be gossiped about, and $1 million is enough to justify some serious planning and even (in someone's mind) some serious treachery. I dunno, would you wear it to work or on a walk in the park? Would you keep it in your jewelry box when your in-laws come over for Thanksgiving?
 

kenny

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ChristineRose|1460590969|4019010 said:
True, almost nobody will know. But once one person knows it will be gossiped about, and $1 million is enough to justify some serious planning and even (in someone's mind) some serious treachery.
Discretion may be the reason the OP chooses to not post a pic or the GIA report.

I'd probably keep this one quiet too, though a 1.4 ct blue would not attract the stares and whispers that a 15 ct white of the same price would.

I've been told buyer's discretion is the reason some of the most expensive FCDs are "Call for Price".
Some high-end buyers don't wan't anyone to know anything about their baubles, and would never buy an FCD with a published price.
Perhaps this is a condition stipulated by their insurance companies.
 

Dancing Fire

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ChristineRose|1460590969|4019010 said:
True, almost nobody will know. But once one person knows it will be gossiped about, and $1 million is enough to justify some serious planning and even (in someone's mind) some serious treachery. I dunno, would you wear it to work or on a walk in the park? Would you keep it in your jewelry box when your in-laws come over for Thanksgiving?
Yes, b/c it is safer to wear a $1mil natural blue diamond than a $1mil 10ct white diamond.
 

Rockdiamond

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kenny|1460594075|4019044 said:
ChristineRose|1460590969|4019010 said:
True, almost nobody will know. But once one person knows it will be gossiped about, and $1 million is enough to justify some serious planning and even (in someone's mind) some serious treachery.
Discretion may be the reason the OP chooses to not post a pic or the GIA report.

I'd probably keep this one quiet too, though a 1.4 ct blue would not attract the stares and whispers that a 15 ct white of the same price would.

I've been told buyer's discretion is the reason some of the most expensive FCDs are "Call for Price".
Some high-end buyers don't wan't anyone to know anything about their baubles, and would never buy an FCD with a published price.
Perhaps this is a condition stipulated by their insurance companies.
I have definitely heard that as well.
But my experience is that the owner of the stone is the one controlling if the price is made public- some sellers believe it hurts them to list prices publicly- I for one find it frustrating when people are made to call to get a price.

If a site publishes prices on some high dollar items and not on others it's generally because they do not own the merchandise, and are told by the owner not to list a price.
 

ChristineRose

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I suppose if I saw a 15 ct white I'd assume it was a CZ, unless it was so bleep-ugly that it couldn't possibly be.

I think muggers and housebreakers generally just take the jewelry and let the fence straighten it out.

The real danger would come from people you know, and people who know the people you know.

As far as I can tell, insurance would be about $10,000 a year. If it needs to be sold, it would likely hold its value unless the seller is in a great hurry. There are people who can afford to burn through $10,000 a year on something like this, so I guess that would be their choice.

I could be wrong about the insurance though. Maybe the rule of thumb falls apart for a piece like this.
 

Texas Leaguer

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Reallyanewbie,
You should employ the services of a credentialed and highly experienced local expert . We can all give 'pieces' of advice remotely, but you need the kind of guidance that you cannot get from afar. You need someone who can help you put it all together.

As others have said, cut quality is judged far differently on Fancy Colors. Basically it is a question of how much "attractiveness" the cutter managed to extract from the rough while retaining max weight. It's very subjective, but also very crucial. That's why you need an expert with experience in this very specialized area of the diamond business to look at the stone with you and also help you get comfortable with the value. He will need to understand your specific goals in acquiring the diamond.
 

Rockdiamond

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+1 Bryan- it's very well advised to consult a qualified local appraiser to assist you in this.
Given that there's possibly less than 100 Vivid blue diamonds over a carat in the world, I don't know that cut quality is going to be a prime concern.
Likely there's nowhere near 100 that exist.
Currently there's four listed on the wholesale database, only one of which is over a carat.
It would be kind of funny if someone was presented with a legit Fancy Vivid Blue, and asked- can we get one with a 58 instead of a 60% table?

My advice is to be very careful reallyanewbie- good luck!!
 

ADN

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Rockdiamond|1460672425|4019408 said:
+1 Bryan- it's very well advised to consult a qualified local appraiser to assist you in this.
Given that there's possibly less than 100 Vivid blue diamonds over a carat in the world, I don't know that cut quality is going to be a prime concern.
Likely there's nowhere near 100 that exist.
Currently there's four listed on the wholesale database, only one of which is over a carat.
It would be kind of funny if someone was presented with a legit Fancy Vivid Blue, and asked- can we get one with a 58 instead of a 60% table?

My advice is to be very careful reallyanewbie- good luck!!
Kinda funny!?...I'd pay big bikkies just to be in the room to see the dealers face!... :lol:
But you'd be surprised what people ask for (actually...you probably wouldn't ;-) ) - I've lost track of how many times someone has told me "I'm looking for a diamond for an engagement ring...either a 1ct F/G SI round or a 1ct Argyle Pink?"... :D
 
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