Very negative JamesAllen.com experience

[ducfrog]

At the advice of another member, I am starting my own topic for my experience with JamesAllen.com.

I'm not affiliated with any diamond companies or JA at all, just a young guy looking for an engagement ring for my girlfriend.

I had almost the exact same incident that occurred to another member with JamesAllen.com happen to me just today. Back story, I have been searching for several weeks for an appropriate engagement ring and on Thursday of last week I saw a very suitable diamond on the JA site for a very good but not outrageously cheap price and decided to call in about it. I talked with the representative and everything seemed to be good so I placed the diamond on hold. At the same time, I asked if this was the best possible price, and the SA informed me that she would ask and let me know the next day. Come the following day, on Friday, I received a response from the SA telling me that they could do a small discount & provided me with the details of the diamond, setting, and total price for the ring. I let them know that I would review everything, keeping in the mind they agreed to hold the diamond until this Monday (1/28/2013). After everything looked good, I called the SA back on Friday evening and confirmed the order. Emails were sent to me confirming the order and bank information for where to wire the funds. Saturday morning I scheduled a bank wire transfer to a JamesAllen.com account and was told the wire transfer would go through on Monday morning.

Fast forward to Monday (today). I received an email earlier in the morning from the SA asking to confirm if I had sent funds as they did not see my transfer yet. Then in the early afternoon around 1 pm PST the wire transfer was completed, and a "Hello confirmation" email was sent to me by the SA including a shipping date of Feb. 1 for my ring. Not 20 minutes later I received an email from JA from Josh, who is apparently a manager at JA stating the following:

"I just received a notification from our diamond department stating that the GIA round brilliant cut diamond that you selected is no longer available for purchase. It appears as though the diamond was mistakenly listed as being available when your order was finalized, when in fact it had been sold prior to your purchase.In short, the listing of this diamond should have not been active when your selection was made. Given the current availability of this item, we will no longer be able to offer this diamond for sale (as you would assume). We were not made aware of this until today, as our diamond departments are closed over the weekend."

After calling them, I was told that I can buy another diamond that is slightly smaller but in similar condition for $1000 more. As you can imagine, I am very disappointed and appalled at this kind of service. I have done my diligence and read countless reviews on JA, and decided to give them a shot as they seemed to be reputable. This clearly seems like a bait and switch tactic and it leaves me with a very negative view on JamesAllen. I placed the diamond on hold on Thursday and they are saying that their diamond departments are closed over the weekend...is this to imply that they do not work on Thursday or Friday? Do they simply not check if they actually have the diamond you ordered until after they have received your money?

I find this impossible to believe and quite frankly if their diamond department was at work Monday morning, why was I not informed of this BEFORE the wire transfer went through in the afternoon? (By the way, I'm on the west coast, & JA offices are in Frederick, MD, not far from where I used to live) On east coast time, the wire transfer went though at 4:20 pm, with Josh emailing me at 4:40PM...I find it impossible to believe that the diamond department just miraculously informed him of the situation at the end of the day 20 minutes after my wire transfer went through. I wasted time and money going to the bank and scheduling a wire transfer (which of course have fees), and wasted time, energy, and most importantly relief that I had found a suitable ring.

I am still in talks with JA, however I don't believe they will be earning my business. I wanted to post this as it seems I am not the only one who has had almost the exact same experience with JamesAllen. Thanks for listening.

-A guy just trying to find a decent engagement ring

 

[Bosie]

An unfortunate experience and not too common on the forum. I think they should have told you the diamond was unavailable before the wire transfer. I would take my business elsewhere. Lots of other excellent co's on this forum. Best of luck.

 

[TC1987]

I would be livid if they had my wire transfer and the diamond had already been sold. So, they are selling virtual stones that they don't really have in-house, or what?

James Allen used to be DirtCheapDiamonds.com back in 2004-2005. JA is not my favorite vendor.

 

[Karl_K]

I dropped Jim, the head guy an email about this issue.
If you don't hear from him tomorrow call and ask for Jim Schultz.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

They are partly owned by a diamond supplier so a large number of their diamonds are available to many other vendors. Apparently their system is not doing a very good job because surely the technology is present for a stone sold or called in by someone else to be immediately pulled from the JA online inventory. I said this before and I'll say it again, they should never confirm the sale and ask for the wire transfer until that particular diamond is accounted for.

They owe you the wire transfer fees and I hope they are wiring your money back to your account in the morning!

(If you want help finding another stone, post a new thread when you are ready. )

Jim is a very nice guy and I am sure he is sorry and it couldn't be helped. But that shouldn't keep happening and it rarely happens with other vendors.

 

[Laila619]

Ugh, I'm so sorry.

 

[Christina...]

I'm a huge fan of JA and have purchased from them several times, so your story disappoints me. I would be extremely upset if this had happened to me. With the number of posters stating their concerns about making such a large purchase online, you would assume that vendors would do everything in their power to assure a smooth transaction. JA really dropped the ball on this one.

The good news is that Jim is a very nice guy and very responsive and I have no doubt that he will do everything in his power to correct this situation. Hopefully that includes investigating how this happened and assuring that it won't happen to anyone else in the future.

The only time I've actually heard of this happening before was when the stone was actually located in Isreal. Of course this doesn't excuse what happened, but I wonder if your stone was one of these and if the problem lies with stones being located overseas?

 

[Christina...]

I would be livid if they had my wire transfer and the diamond had already been sold. So, they are selling virtual stones that they don't really have in-house, or what?

James Allen used to be DirtCheapDiamonds.com back in 2004-2005. JA is not my favorite vendor.

VIrtual stones are simply a list of stones available to any vendor, in house means that the vendor actually owns the stone and has it on site, no other vendor can purchase it. JA, I believe does own some of their stones, the rest though are held by dealers. Most vendors do this to some degree, BGD has his blue and signature line 'in house' the rest he must have sent to him. WF has the ACA, and a virtual list, BN owns their signature line I believe but the rest are sitting on the same virtual list as every other vendor.

 

[Bosie]

It does not matter if the stone is in Israel, NYC or Timbuktu, if the vendor says he has the stone, then he should have the stone.
Agree with earlier poster, get your money back via wire plus your bank wire fees. Wash you hands of JA.

 

[lknvrb4]

I would be livid, the SA in my mind should have told you they did not have the diamond and if they said they would hold it until that date they should stand by that. I find more and more that people don't do as they say they are going to do. I was raised that you do what you say your going to do.

 

[chrono]

There is nothing wrong with vendors selling "virtual" diamonds; many of PS' highly recommended vendors, not just JA, sell both their own inventory and virtual diamonds (a large pool shared by many vendors). It is done to save costs (vendor doesn't have to tie up their funds) thus allowing the price of the diamond to be less than many others, and this also increases their selection of diamonds of purchase.

I've not heard of such a terrible mix-up after the funds have been transferred. At the very least, the wire fee has to be reimbursed but I think JA should step up to make better amends than that. Please keep us posted as to how JA is handling this snafu.

 

[Malbec54]

I'm sorry for your experience. It's a shame that JA failed to escalate the situation and make things right immediately by providing you with a similar stone, price etc., ---Heck, even a discount for your troubles.
Hopefully they will right the wrong and establish a new policy should this ever happen again.
I think they are a great company and had a fantastic experience with them. Definitely give them a chance to make it right. I'm confident that they won't disappoint you.

 

[TC1987]

I was being sarcastic. I know what virtual diamonds are. But I object to a vendor accepting a wire transfer for a virtual diamond that he can't actually get. I think I would be not be so sarcastic if they had made arrangements to immediately return the money, plus reimburse his fees.

 

[TC1987]

It does not matter if the stone is in Israel, NYC or Timbuktu, if the vendor says he has the stone, then he should have the stone.
...

^ That's how I see it, too. If it's not actually in-house in the USA, then I'd like for a USA vendor's site to somehow distinguish between what is or is not actually in-house.

 

[04diamond<3]

It does not matter if the stone is in Israel, NYC or Timbuktu, if the vendor says he has the stone, then he should have the stone.
...

^ That's how I see it, too. If it's not actually in-house in the USA, then I'd like for a USA vendor's site to somehow distinguish between what is or is not actually in-house.

This was never said. And TC1987 - then don't buy online. EVERY vendor has a virtual selection and they owe no one an explanation of where their stones are. If you don't buy the "IN HOUSE" stones obviously you're dealing with the virtual selection.

OP - I'm sorry you had this problem, but this really just sounds like a misscommunication issue. I would be a bit frustrated but if you want to attempt to fix something then I'd report the issue to a manager or who ever is above the last person you spoke to. It sounds like Jim was made aware of the issue and he really is a nice person that I'm more than sure will do what he can to help you out. I'm not trying to make light of your situation, but you really just need to take this issue to someone who can DO something about it. You ARE buying online so there are risks involved. However, if it were me, I would have demanded to speak to who ever's boss is of that representative you initially spoke with and asked that they do what they can to fix it and they will! You should have been told the diamond wasn't available and they should have done the research to have made sure of this prior to you even putting the stone on hold.

 

[funkytown12]

I am shocked that people are sticking up for James Allen because "Jim" is such a nice guy. or reasons like "well, you bought online and you knew it was risky, but James allen is still great..." What? Seriously? This never happens on Amazon or something. But diamonds are different, there is only ONE of each. So they can't be "backordered" or something so their sites have to be up to date or someone has to be watching their inventory more closely. You have to realize he put this diamond on HOLD!! and then PAID for it. And it was still sold to someone else. Absolutely unexceptable in my honest opinion. I understand people have had excellent experiences with them but it is these one off experiences that make you lose trust immediately. Would you do business with me if I took 20K from you and then said "sorry, we actually sold that car, but I have another one in the same color but it doesn't have leather seats that I can sell you and it is $1000 more expensive. We already have your money afterall, might as well, just do it..." I am looking to buy an engagment ring and love the James Allen website but i won't even consider them at this point. That totally freaks me out.

 

[YoungPapa]

Hi folks,

First and foremost, my apologies to ducfrog. I've been in contact with him this morning and I'm confident that we'll resolve this issue to his satisfaction today.

As to some of the other comments that were made in the thread, I can only say the following: In all of 2012, we did not lose a single sale because a diamond was unavailable. In every single instance (of which there were only a few and represented a tiny fraction of our business), the customer walked away with a beautiful diamond and was very satisfied with the measures that we were willing to take to make them whole. Our systems aren't perfect, our people aren't perfect, but our business model is solid and the exceptional error is always treated seriously and with the best interest of the client as the primary goal.

I don't expect this forum to support my company because I'm a nice guy. I expect this forum to support my company because we are good people who always take care of our customers, especially when we make mistakes.

Thank you.

 

[04diamond<3]

I am shocked that people are sticking up for James Allen because "Jim" is such a nice guy. or reasons like "well, you bought online and you knew it was risky, but James allen is still great..." What? Seriously? This never happens on Amazon or something. But diamonds are different, there is only ONE of each. So they can't be "backordered" or something so their sites have to be up to date or someone has to be watching their inventory more closely. You have to realize he put this diamond on HOLD!! and then PAID for it. And it was still sold to someone else. Absolutely unexceptable in my honest opinion. I understand people have had excellent experiences with them but it is these one off experiences that make you lose trust immediately. Would you do business with me if I took 20K from you and then said "sorry, we actually sold that car, but I have another one in the same color but it doesn't have leather seats that I can sell you and it is $1000 more expensive. We already have your money afterall, might as well, just do it..." I am looking to buy an engagment ring and love the James Allen website but i won't even consider them at this point. That totally freaks me out.

Um DUH! I'm not stupid and I read EXACTLY what happened and I think that people are over reacting and making this a bigger deal than it is. I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION - HOWEVER - This is totally why I hate when people do this. Things happen and if the company despite your best efforts or theirs didn't end up making everyone happy in the end THEN I understand you coming on here and giving your final review. This clearly was the act of one person who didn't have all their ducks in a row and should have been taken to higher management before coming on here. If this were anywhere else then that's exactly what would have happened by why not this time? Because once in over a year a mistake was made on their part? um hello, they're a business and I would LOVE to see you run a business with only ONE thing going wrong in over a year.

Your underlined portion is just ludicrous! So ONE experience - and it wasn't even a completed experience because they're STILL attempting to rectify this - out of all the positive experiences should mean they're never brought from again. That's a dumb statement.

 

[SMC]

I am shocked that people are sticking up for James Allen because "Jim" is such a nice guy. or reasons like "well, you bought online and you knew it was risky, but James allen is still great..." What? Seriously? This never happens on Amazon or something. But diamonds are different, there is only ONE of each. So they can't be "backordered" or something so their sites have to be up to date or someone has to be watching their inventory more closely. You have to realize he put this diamond on HOLD!! and then PAID for it. And it was still sold to someone else. Absolutely unexceptable in my honest opinion. I understand people have had excellent experiences with them but it is these one off experiences that make you lose trust immediately. Would you do business with me if I took 20K from you and then said "sorry, we actually sold that car, but I have another one in the same color but it doesn't have leather seats that I can sell you and it is $1000 more expensive. We already have your money afterall, might as well, just do it..." I am looking to buy an engagment ring and love the James Allen website but i won't even consider them at this point. That totally freaks me out.

I will still continue to do business with James Allen. I would be disappointed if this happens to me, but I would get my money back and start my search again. It's not like JA took the OP's money forever and didn't give it back. I agree that JA should have had a better handle on it's inventory, but at the end of the day, the OP has not actually lost anything tangible. It's not like JA has refused to give the OP his money back.

I've placed orders on other retail sites (like Banana Republic) where the item I've paid for has been found to be out of stock. If this is the case, I get my money back and find something else. I don't think that this would dissuade me from ever shopping at that retailer again, especially since I have not lost anything financially. If there's a more-than-likely chance that I get a great diamond at a reasonable price, then I'm going with JA. Yes, I think diamonds are "unique" but I don't think that they are irreplaceable. Diamonds are not soul mates. I believe that the OP will find another awesome diamond, whether or not he chooses to purchase from JA.

JA has a larger sales volume than other vendors who hold all their diamonds in-house, so the absolute number of "mess-ups" is larger (and ends up on PS). My experience with their customer service has been great so far. The benefits that JA provides (awesome website, gemologist feedback, Idealscope images, large selection - and most of all, reasonable prices on stones and settings) far outweigh the very small chance that something like this will happen. I believe that JA is trying to rectify the situation as best they can and they will learn from this incident. And we should all move on.

 

[bagaliciouslady]

I am dealing with JA right now. OP's negative experience concerns me.

Just out of curiosity, for those diamond vendors who get their diamonds from a "diamond supplier", what is their mark-up?
A local jeweler said he makes really almost nothing (he might have mentioned 5% mark up). So is it possible for us to buy directly from this "diamond supplier", i.e., cut out the middle man, how much would we save?

I have found that the same diamond with the same GIA Certificate # can be found on multiple websites offered at varying prices.
Just my personal experience.

 

[diamonds-are-friends]

well, you can get yourself a subscription at rapnet and try looking for a supplier who is willing to sell you a single stone. Can they offer you the same level of service? When I mean service here, JA takes videos of diamonds, GOG might offer diamond analysis etc...

more importantly: Even when you do find this "wholesaler", can you trust him/her?

 

[lapelirroja]

Markup from an online vendor is much less than a brick and mortar location that has more overhead costs...

 

[maccers]

I think people are forgetting that the OP is probably new to buying diamonds, period. Comments about the virtual inventory system being imperfect isn't much comfort when you aren't aware of how the virtual system works and you're about to drop a substantial amount of money for a very significant decision in your life. When I first started looking at e-rings, the idea of buying online, laying down a substantial amount of cash, was really intimidating. SO and I were really worried about how much we could trust any online vendor. If a wire transfer went through only to find out that the stone isn't available but 'there's one just like it' for an extra $1000, well, my spidey senses would be tingling and I'd be wondering if I made a mistake of using an online vendor. To be clear, I'm not saying James Allen isn't trustworthy. Now that I'm comfortable with buying diamonds online, I'm a much more educated consumer and I know there is PS as a wonderful resource, if the virtual inventory system failed me, I'd be disappointed but not overly concerned. But the difference is the level of knowledge when you're a first time buyer.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have found that the same diamond with the same GIA Certificate # can be found on multiple websites offered at varying prices.
Just my personal experience.

This is common and is a feature of the diamond marketplace.

Many consumers are not aware of the ins and outs of how the diamond market works. Some vendors buy their diamonds outright from suppliers and cutters. Those diamonds are all stored in house and are readily available for examination and photography. That business model requires a vendor to outlay a substantial investment! Such vendors often have smaller inventories and slightly higher prices, to offset the risk they take buying all those diamonds I suspect.

Another business model is that of "drop shipper", where a supplier like Blue NIle will never see the diamonds it sells (their signature line may be an exception). Instead they offer the diamond for sale and when it is bought they alert the dealer/cutter, and THAT company ships the stone to the buyer. I suspect that BN has an exlcusive contract with a few vendors to avoid the types of situations that the OP describes, which they can do because they have such a huge market share.

Jame Allen has a hybrid model I believe. As far as I know, they do not own the diamonds they sell (perhaps with the exception of the True Hearts line, but I am not sure of this), but have very ready access to most and can easily "call them in" for examination prior to sale. But they are still somewhat at the mercy of the wholesalers or vendors, who may not update their own stock lists appropriately on occassion, or may sell the diamond to someone else one minute before JA sells the stone.

I can recall a few cases like the OP decribes on PS. A couple times with JA, and I can also recall a few cases from ot her vendors as well, even vendors with in house stones! Mistakes happen. I am an old jaded diamond buyer now and don't think this is such a big deal. Either work with JA to get a resolution you are happy with, or take your money elsewhere. No company, or person, is perfect, and mistakes like this can easily happen the way the industry is set up. If you want to avoid this small risk in future, buy from vendors with in house stones and pay the added premium.

 

[ascari_2]

Huge difference between placing something on order and being given a shipping date, and being told that a vendor needs to receive full payment before attempting to order a stone.

 

[Laila619]

I am shocked that people are sticking up for James Allen because "Jim" is such a nice guy. or reasons like "well, you bought online and you knew it was risky, but James allen is still great..." What? Seriously? This never happens on Amazon or something. But diamonds are different, there is only ONE of each. So they can't be "backordered" or something so their sites have to be up to date or someone has to be watching their inventory more closely. You have to realize he put this diamond on HOLD!! and then PAID for it. And it was still sold to someone else. Absolutely unexceptable in my honest opinion. I understand people have had excellent experiences with them but it is these one off experiences that make you lose trust immediately. Would you do business with me if I took 20K from you and then said "sorry, we actually sold that car, but I have another one in the same color but it doesn't have leather seats that I can sell you and it is $1000 more expensive. We already have your money afterall, might as well, just do it..." I am looking to buy an engagment ring and love the James Allen website but i won't even consider them at this point. That totally freaks me out.

We all understand the issue, but if this is the worst thing that ever happens in one's life, they should consider themselves lucky. Things happen, and I'm sure JA will make it right or refund the money + fees.

 

[yssie]

The stone situation would have annoyed me, but I know enough about virtuals to understand what had happened, and know it's not JA's fault. My own stone sat on BN's inventory for months after WF had it pulled, set it, and sent it back to me! I have to say though, that email response from "Josh" would have infuriated me. Where's the "we're terribly sorry for the situation"? Where's the "please let us set up a time to talk by phone to discuss what we can do"? And where on earth is the "your money will be refunded in full to your account pronto"!? If avoiding the situation entirely by requiring full payment only after the stone has been received in-hand is not an option (IMO it should be) it seems that investing in an appropriately apologetic form letter would not go amiss.

I've bought from JA and been very satisfied. I did however request ISs on them, so if they weren't available I guess it'd have been noted at that checkpoint.

 

[Maisie]

Either i'm having a deja vu moment or a story almost identical to this was posted sometime last year. James Allen was the vendor then too.

Or am I losing my marbles?

ETA it wasn't exactly the same story. The price was changed after the buyer paid for the virtual stone.

ETA x 2 I knew I'd read something similar but it was in 2011. The exact same thing happened but JA found a more expensive diamond and sold it for the same price the buyer had already paid for the stone which ended up being sold already.

 

[distracts]

What? Seriously? This never happens on Amazon or something.

Uh, actually yes it does.

Just out of curiosity, for those diamond vendors who get their diamonds from a "diamond supplier", what is their mark-up?
A local jeweler said he makes really almost nothing (he might have mentioned 5% mark up). So is it possible for us to buy directly from this "diamond supplier", i.e., cut out the middle man, how much would we save?

Probably none, because the diamond supplier would add a retail markup. You are not doing bulk business with them but buying a single stone, so there is no benefit to them to giving you any kind of discount. The vendors who get discounts on diamonds from wholesalers do so because they bring in a lot of business, just like in any other wholesaling situation.

 

[YoungPapa]

Where's the "we're terribly sorry for the situation"? Where's the "please let us set up a time to talk by phone to discuss what we can do"?

Hi Yssie,

The email from Josh to the client contained both an apology and an outreach to work with him to locate a comparable diamond. Ducfrog chose to copy/paste only part of the text of that communication.

Regardless, we have reached out to ducfrog with what I believe is a fair resolution of this issue and are awaiting his response.

All the best,