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Very confused - Need HELP choosing stone

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
Hi guys,

So I have my eye set on this stone: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5201665026

However, when I run it through the HCA Test, it gets a result of 5.3. If I am correct, this is not the best it could be? The comment says "Probably doesn't sparkle much, but looks a good size for its carat weight." I know for a fact though that this diamond has an excellent luster as well as no milkiness (graded additional to the GIA cert).

Should I even care about this test knowing what I know?

Other info: I do not have access to/there is no ASET/idealscope images.

Three other potentials were: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2205973462 as well as https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6214009365 (not too keen on the gaining comments) and finally https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2205914129 (if I choose to go a little bigger).

Again, I can confirm all stones here have excellent luster as well as no milkiness or hues/tints whatsoever. The three other potentials are all H&A, while the one I am set on is almost a true H&A but still a little short. All images/videos have been seen by me. All looked fine.

Any advice/comments/thoughts/suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

tripleX
 

meesmom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
439
Hello!
Have you seen these diamonds in person? I dont think anyone here would tell you to ignore the HCA score, unless it was closer to 2 AND you had seen it in person and loved the performance. Im sure someone else with more knowledge will chime in soon, but a score of over 5 would be a big no for me....did you run the other stones thru the HCA yet?
 

Mekp

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
175
I'm not an expert but this is my understanding. With a shallower crown like the one you are looking at, it has the same number of facets but each will be smaller. Keep in mind, because GIA rounds off measurements, the crown could be even shallower than indicated. I understand shallow crowns inhibit fire.

In addition, I understand a score of 5.3 indicates the angles aren't complementary.

Have you seen it in person? Have you compared it to a truly ideal diamond? Even a badly cut diamond is going to have some sparkle, it just won't perform like a better cut diamond. So just because it sparkles doesn't mean it's a winner.
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
Hello!
Have you seen these diamonds in person? I dont think anyone here would tell you to ignore the HCA score, unless it was closer to 2 AND you had seen it in person and loved the performance. Im sure someone else with more knowledge will chime in soon, but a score of over 5 would be a big no for me....did you run the other stones thru the HCA yet?
I'm not an expert but this is my understanding. With a shallower crown like the one you are looking at, it has the same number of facets but each will be smaller. Keep in mind, because GIA rounds off measurements, the crown could be even shallower than indicated. I understand shallow crowns inhibit fire.

In addition, I understand a score of 5.3 indicates the angles aren't complementary.

Have you seen it in person? Have you compared it to a truly ideal diamond? Even a badly cut diamond is going to have some sparkle, it just won't perform like a better cut diamond. So just because it sparkles doesn't mean it's a winner.
Thanks! I haven't seen it in person, but have seen a 20x zoom video and image. Since I am not an expert, all looked good. In saying that, all these stones have excellent luster (first out of 5 gradings), which is what has me confused.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,282
Is there a cultural reason for such high color and clarity? None of these stones fall into the traditional "ideal" ranges. GIA XXX is very broad, and not all xxx stones are cut well. I would personally keep looking.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,282
Thanks! I haven't seen it in person, but have seen a 20x zoom video and image. Since I am not an expert, all looked good. In saying that, all these stones have excellent luster (first out of 5 gradings), which is what has me confused.
I am not sure what metric anyone is using to define "luster", but the first stone is just not well cut. Again, none fall into an ideal cut range.
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
Is there a cultural reason for such high color and clarity? None of these stones fall into the traditional "ideal" ranges. GIA XXX is very broad, and not all xxx stones are cut well. I would personally keep looking.
Not really cultural, more symbolic. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
I am not sure what metric anyone is using to define "luster", but the first stone is just not well cut. Again, none fall into an ideal cut range.
It is a large wholesaler who do their own testing on all stones they receive, Very well respected.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,282
It is a large wholesaler who do their own testing on all stones they receive, Very well respected.
I personally wouldn't trust the opinion of someone who says that they have "graded " stones for luster when there is no such grade. It's just their opinion. I completely understand the symbolism of trying to get a 'perfect' diamond, but what she will see is the fire and sparkle, not whether it's a D vs and F or a VVS versus a VS. I would drop to F/G and VS2 in order to get an ideal cut
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
I personally wouldn't trust the opinion of someone who says that they have "graded " stones for luster when there is no such grade. It's just their opinion. I completely understand the symbolism of trying to get a 'perfect' diamond, but what she will see is the fire and sparkle, not whether it's a D vs and F or a VVS versus a VS. I would drop to F/G and VS2 in order to get an ideal cut
I get that, but they are extremely well renowned for this sort of thing. It is an internal grading, so not official, but it is enough to get that grading, over a 'very good'.

Do you know what the ranges are for GIA to mark the stone as having an excellent cut? Is it very varied?

Thanks.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,282
I get that, but they are extremely well renowned for this sort of thing. It is an internal grading, so not official, but it is enough to get that grading, over a 'very good'.

Do you know what the ranges are for GIA to mark the stone as having an excellent cut? Is it very varied?

Thanks.
The ranges to get a GIA XXX are very broad, so some are amazing and others are awful. To be totally safe and increase the chances of getting an ideal cut, I would use the following (even though they are narrow ranges):
Table : 54-58 or maybe 59
Depth: 60-62.4
Crown angle: 34-35 (sometimes 35.5 is ok if pav angle is 40.6)
Pavillion angle: 40.6-40.8 (sometimes 41 is ok with crown of 34)

Run any GIA stone through the HCA ro make sure the angles are complementary. Scores under 2 indicate that angles work nicely together.
 

lydial

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
562
I had a diamond with almost identical specs. Zero fire. No color. Always looked white. I traded it in for an ideal cut.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,426
I get that, but they are extremely well renowned for this sort of thing. It is an internal grading, so not official, but it is enough to get that grading, over a 'very good'.
Do you know what the ranges are for GIA to mark the stone as having an excellent cut? Is it very varied?

Thanks.
There are Indian diamond manufacturers who have internal labs that are way better grading facilities than GIA. They do grade luster - not quite strictly enough for me on Ex to VG, but a big help.
Here is a good comparison list for GIA and AGS
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
There are Indian diamond manufacturers who have internal labs that are way better grading facilities than GIA. They do grade luster - not quite strictly enough for me on Ex to VG, but a big help.
Here is a good comparison list for GIA and AGS
Hi Garry, could you please explain what the link is showing? Sorry, I’m very new to this sort of thing! Where does this stone in particular sit? Thanks!
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
Funny coincidence - I just ran a live video on my business Facebook site with this stone as an example.
It also gets 5.3 on my HCA: and it is GIA XXX And it would face up smaller than a nice 0.90ct and have about 1/3rd less sparkle.
1594944469716.png

1594944512249.png
Was that purely a coincidence?! Or because I posted it here :) Either way, would you share your page here? I’d be curious to see the video. And is that an ASET image of the stone? How does it perform? Now when you say fave up smaller than a 0.90ct, what do you mean by that? The 1.08ct would look bigger wouldn’t it? And regarding sparkle, is 1/3 less sparkle a major decrease? Thanks so much!
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,426
Hi Garry, could you please explain what the link is showing? Sorry, I’m very new to this sort of thing! Where does this stone in particular sit? Thanks!
Take table size from..report. look up correct chart. rows and pa
Was that purely a coincidence?! Or because I posted it here :) Either way, would you share your page here? I’d be curious to see the video. And is that an ASET image of the stone? How does it perform? Now when you say fave up smaller than a 0.90ct, what do you mean by that? The 1.08ct would look bigger wouldn’t it? And regarding sparkle, is 1/3 less sparkle a major decrease? Thanks so much!
In appropriate as a trade member to promote. But if you search its not hard to find
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,282
Was that purely a coincidence?! Or because I posted it here :) Either way, would you share your page here? I’d be curious to see the video. And is that an ASET image of the stone? How does it perform? Now when you say fave up smaller than a 0.90ct, what do you mean by that? The 1.08ct would look bigger wouldn’t it? And regarding sparkle, is 1/3 less sparkle a major decrease? Thanks so much!
He is trying to nicely say that the stone is not going to perform well and will look small for its carat weight
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
He is trying to nicely say that the stone is not going to perform well and will look small for its carat weight
Thanks. It’s interesting because the HCA says it will look bigger than average for its size? In any case, I’ll keep on looking. Thanks!
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,426
I either must be blind, stupid, or both. I’ve gone through and can’t see any recent video...today obviously isn’t my day :/
I am sorry - it was a live FB video from 2 days ago - I can't find it either - so I too am blind and really stupid hahahaha. But my admin view is not the same as yours.
It is there - under events 14th July
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
I am sorry - it was a live FB video from 2 days ago - I can't find it either - so I too am blind and really stupid hahahaha. But my admin view is not the same as yours.
It is there - under events 14th July
Thanks hahaha. Much appreciated! So if I don’t have access to idealscope or ASET imagery, is it enough to use your HCA search?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,426
Thanks hahaha. Much appreciated! So if I don’t have access to idealscope or ASET imagery, is it enough to use your HCA search?
Nup - it is a rejection tool. Ideal-scope and some no how about inclusion types especially combined with flouro is enough for rounds for me.
For fancy shapes ASEt is invaluable
 

tripleX

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
43
Nup - it is a rejection tool. Ideal-scope and some no how about inclusion types especially combined with flouro is enough for rounds for me.
For fancy shapes ASEt is invaluable
Thanks very much. Back to the drawing board for me. Is there any way to get an idealscope image online if I have the photo/video of the diamond?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,426
Thanks very much. Back to the drawing board for me. Is there any way to get an idealscope image online if I have the photo/video of the diamond?
You can ask. Lots of manufacturers have them but lots of intermidiatories have no idea what they mean (or care)
 
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