Very close friend in UK owes money, is suicidal. HELP!

[whitewave]

It’s like when women come on local Fb pages and say, “my husband is looking for work. He is a painter” etc

I immediately think, why would I waste my time following up with that when he can’t even come on and say he needs work, etc.

 

[metall]

@Phoenix, I'm sorry that you've been put in the middle of your friends financial problems and the depression. It is very draining to be someone else's support system, much less their mommy, lawyer and Ms-Fix-It. Especially right now while you're not 100%. It is a terrible time to be dragged into something like that.

You've got him off to a GREAT start. Now encourage him to take the reigns in his own life, the next call or action must be FROM him FOR him. It's hard love and may not be what he WANTS, but it's what he needs. Hopefully taking that next step by himself whatever it is - getting an appointment with a GP, bringing down his cell phone payments, going to a GA meeting, making an appointment with a therapist, calling the collection's company....whatever IT is, will empower him to take the next. He took a great big step by letting someone in, it's time to move forward again, and not just hang out on that last step.

 

[Elizabeth35]

The suicide attempts and depression (or bi-polar or whatever) are the #1 issue here.

What is the protocol in UK for suicidal patients? Is there any UK equivalent to the 5150 hold in the US (I think that is what it is called)?

I am hearing him throw out one roadblock after another---and that is very concerning. But also not entirely uncommon for depressed males.

He needs to get the appropriate mental health care so that he can manage his financial situation. You can certainly be a support for him, and help him until his mental health issues are being managed. But for you to be fully in charge of his finances (unless for a short period of time for him to get help) is unreasonable and probably enabling.
You are a good friend and it is horrible to watch someone being self-destructive.
Just remember that you cannot control this situation, nor can you 'fix' him.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Honestly, from dealing with depressed friends I think you have done quite a bit to help your friend. Next is understanding and accepting that his financial situation may not be corrected anytime soon. So what to do? Support your friend and remind them that as much as it sucks to be in debt he is not the only person in the world in debt, it doesn't make him a bad person and in the future he may be out of debt. Your friend needs to learn coping skills and that comes with therapy.Your friend needs a competent therapist to help him through, but even then therapy helps people cope with their problems it does not get rid of their problems. Healing begins when people understand that we are not perfect, we make mistakes. But we do the best we can to correct past mistakes and prevent future mistakes with the understanding that missing the mark is not a terminal illness.

 

[Phoenix]

Thank you sooooo much, everyone, for chiming in and advising me of what to do.

The update now is that I've helped him to enter into a repayment plan for the debt that has gone into collection. The rest, he's started to pay back by working OT and will continue do so. Once these other debts have been paid off, the OD and the CC will be cancelled.

I hear what you're all saying about enabling him. I couldn't give him back control over the accounts as he's not capable of handling them nor is he capable of talking to the creditors. I will teach him, slowly, how to manage his finances going forward. He's also agreed to go to Gamblers Anonymous and he's also got the Samaritans' tel number in case he feels suicidal again.

Nothing is gonna change overnight. It's gonna be a very long painful process. He knows that. I am there for him but I understand that he needs to be in charge of his own life - literally as well as finance wise. I will transfer back control of his bank accounts to him once he's shown to be capable of handling the finances himself. I am hopeful that he'll be able to do this eventually. I went through several years of his bank statements and it seems that only in the past few years has he gone out of control, and that he had decent savings previously. A lot of his problems seem to stem for 2 relationships that went sour. I think he's recovering from these and he realises the effect these r/s have had both on him financially as well as emotionally. He and I do realise that he now has to get a grip and deal with the aftermath of those r/s and regain control of his own life. I can only help him so much though, the rest/ the main thing is that he has to help himself.

 

[Phoenix]

Based on personal experience...

I took out a Debt Management Plan with Pay Plan, who helped with contacting the creditors to request for my debts to be frozen, and offered them what I could pay back every month.

I had to provide a detailed monthly income and expenditures to Pay Plan in order to work out what I was able to pay back to my creditors proportionally.

All except one creditor accepted without further interest charges.

Took me a few years to clear my debts, I however I did it.

I had no critical debts (mortgage and utilities bills were up to date), only credit cards and a personal loan, and I have a good job.

Although my creditors used debt collection companies to manage my debts, none of them went to court which meant I did not have any county court judgement against me, and I was not declared bankrupt.

I contacted Pay Plan when I realised I was struggling with paying the minimum repayments on my credit card bills each month.

In the past I had asked my family to bail me out. However I felt ashamed to do it again after being told off by my ex-husband who had also helped me in the past. He said something in the line of if I was not able to support myself on my salary, then there was no hope for those earning less, etc.

I decided it was time to face this demon on my own two feet, to finally learn to manage money in my mid 40s!

I was not able to get any credit for 2 years after paying off my debts.

I swear I will not have another credit card, and only have one that is pre-paid.

The only other loan apart from the mortgage is the personal contract hire for my car.

Good luck with the OP's friend! I cannot offer any advice except to contact Citizens Advice Bureau as soon as possible to seek help.

DK

Well done for paying back all your debts and getting back on your feet.

I contacted PayPlan and a couple of other charities. They all wanted him to contact them to give authority for me to act on his behalf, as one would expect. He tried but wasn't able to do so - partly because he was working crazy hours and partly bc he's not capable of talking to them (he's not able to articulate the problems nor his finances). I've now, on his behalf, made arrangements for him to pay back his creditors - pls see my post above. Hopefully, he'll be back on his feet - at least finance wise - after a 2 or 3 years.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Calliecake]

Phoenix, Addicts tend to blame everyone and everything for their problems. The fact that he isn’t in Gambling Anonymous makes me think he isn’t holding himself accountable for his actions. The ex girlfriends didn’t make him gamble. He himself chose to gamble.

Please be careful. You can’t change him.

 

[Phoenix]

Thank you, @LJsapphire and @Austina. My friend has now changed his plan to a new one with O2. He's now paying GBP60 a month for 20GB of mobile data. He seems to think that should be sufficient. He's also promised not to watch movies on his phone to try keep his usage down as much as possible.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, Addicts tend to blame everyone and everything for their problems. The fact that he isn’t in Gambling Anonymous makes me think he isn’t holding himself accountable for his actions. The ex girlfriends didn’t make him gamble. He himself chose to gamble.

Please be careful. You can’t change him.

I understand. He's admitted he has a problem, and that he's created the problem for himself. And he's promised to go to Gamblers Anonymous. I'll continue to monitor the situation.

Thank you.

 

[Phoenix]

I know the debts feel pressing but addiction is a mental issue that needs to be addressed first. Is there a process to check him into a treatment program, maybe on the NHS, that provides counselling and medical consultation. Without treatment, the core problem is not addressed and if his debts are relieved, he will relapse again if triggered (by stress, depression). If you find the right people to talk to, they will give you the best advice about how to consolidate the debt payments at a reduced interest rate.

He's gonna go to Gamblers Anonymous and he's going to the GP to ask for referral to a psychiatrist. Pls see my post #35 above also re his finance issues.

Thank you.

 

[Phoenix]

http://www.three.co.uk/Store/SIM-hub

If he's out of his initial contract (usually 24 months over here) he can swap to a lower, SIM-only plan with the same or another provider by calling his current provider and asking to leave, and for a PAC number (so he can transfer his number across to the new provider). It is likely that they will offer him a different plan in order to try and make him stay, so he/you should do your homework on what is available.

If he's still within the contract he signed up to, he will have to pay off the remainder of the monthly payments before he can swap (because he's still paying for the handset within the monthlies).

Giffgaff may be another option - it's an internet-community-based provider with no contract period:
https://www.giffgaff.com/free-sim-cards

EDIT: Check out USwitch - they took over the Omio site that used to list and compare the best phone and SIM deals, so they have great tools on here to search for what you want/need:
https://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/


WRT mental health, he should give Mind a call - they are a dedicated mental health charity with a hotline:
https://www.mind.org.uk/


WRT IVAs, it is my understanding that those agencies who set such things up take a cut of what you are paying, and I have been advised against that myself. I think the other way of doing it is to contact each company individually and explain the situation, to request options available.

EDIT: Debt Collection agencies are scary, it can't be denied, but all they want is to be kept in the loop - contact them and talk to them, because as mentioned above, they'd rather get something than nothing, even if it takes longer. And if something changes, contact them ASAP again - it's when the debtor disappears that people start knocking on the door or they initiate court proceedings. Most companies should have decent customer services to speak to - I believe that gone are the days where you'd speak to a rottweiler of a CS person who'd do their best to screw you over, but I can't guarantee it...


It is a somewhat irritating fact that those who can least afford credit and/or are struggling to pay credit back, are those that are hit with the highest interest rates, meaning it takes them longer and they are more likely to default.

For example, if you earn ££££££ a year you can get credit for an 80k car at ~3% APR interest at the moment (AIUI). But if you work two part time jobs at the minimum wage and have £20 spare each week, but need to buy a washing machine to keep your children's clothes clean, you can pay anywhere from 50%APR by buying from a catalogue to, what, 1600%APR? (yes, 1,600 percent, or even more) on a 'Payday Loan'.


Speaking entirely personally, I have stupid amounts of debt and missed a couple of payment dates by a day or so last year, because I couldn't get to the bank to pay it (because disorganised ). Usually I get hit with a slew of 0% interest Balance Transfer offers on my credit cards after Christmas, but this year? Nothing. So I'm stuck paying c.20% interest, meaning half my payments each month go on interest alone.

If they'd give me 3% interest rates then I'd clear double each year what I can pay now, but instead, the minions are people to screw for the most amount possible because they are a 'risk' and might default .


The whole world of lending is, frankly, ****ed up.

I hope you can sort your friend out, @Phoenix - you are a good friend for helping, and he has made the first step by admitting he has a problem, so together you will get through it

Thank you so much. I am making a note of MIND. I'll let him know about it.

He's changed his O2 plan to another one already. It's helpful to know of other providers too, in case he needs to change again.

It IS crazy,yes, the interest rates they're charging. Please see my post #35 above. I've had a look at his finances and although he earns a low wage, his expenses are also very low (not accounting for the gambling). I estimate, assuming there's no relapse, that he should be out of debt within 2 or 3 years. To help him not rake up debts again, he's going to - with my help - cancel both the OD and CC facilities as soon as he can. He's also already cut up the debit card and the CC.

 

[Phoenix]

Difficulties getting a doctor's appointment are common over here now, it seems.

Some places won't book in advance and you have to ring when they open, but by 5 minutes past the hour they open, the appointments are gone and you have to try again tomorrow.

Or they will take advance bookings, but the next available slot is 3 weeks away.


It is frustrating and the NHS is an imperfect system, but it does mean that we don't have to spend the equivalent of US$1000 a month (or however much the average is in the USA) on family medical insurance that has a host of caveats and exclusions in the small print!

It's crazy how long it takes to make an appt. But I agree that at least there's a free health system in place.

 

[Phoenix]

Thank you. I have been trying to figure out how to say all of this.

Phoenix, what you need to ask him is: “what are you going to do about that?”

I also would NOT take over talks with creditors about money because what if that somehow makes you responsible for repayment?kind of like co-signing for a debt. You need to make 100% sure you aren’t setting yourself up for disaster.

Also, if he is unwilling to speak to the creditors himself, I have 0% faith he is taking repayment seriously.

I was actually concerned about this myself. I am not going to guarantee or co-sign anything. I am just merely a communication vehicle to facilitate the "dialogues" between him and his creditors to sort out suitable repayment plans. I was very careful not to give them my National Insurance number, nor have I signed anything and am not going to, either.

It's not that he's unwilling. He's just not capable. I've been on conference calls with him, together with his creditors and he's just not able to articulate his problems and his needs.

I will continue to monitor the situation. Is he's not taking ownership of the problems and ways to deal with them, then I will drop him/ he'll then be on his own. I can only help him so much.

 

[peacechick]

Thank you sooooo much, everyone, for chiming in and advising me of what to do.

The update now is that I've helped him to enter into a repayment plan for the debt that has gone into collection. The rest, he's started to pay back by working OT and will continue do so. Once these other debts have been paid off, the OD and the CC will be cancelled.

I hear what you're all saying about enabling him. I couldn't give him back control over the accounts as he's not capable of handling them nor is he capable of talking to the creditors. I will teach him, slowly, how to manage his finances going forward. He's also agreed to go to Gamblers Anonymous and he's also got the Samaritans' tel number in case he feels suicidal again.

Nothing is gonna change overnight. It's gonna be a very long painful process. He knows that. I am there for him but I understand that he needs to be in charge of his own life - literally as well as finance wise. I will transfer back control of his bank accounts to him once he's shown to be capable of handling the finances himself. I am hopeful that he'll be able to do this eventually. I went through several years of his bank statements and it seems that only in the past few years has he gone out of control, and that he had decent savings previously. A lot of his problems seem to stem for 2 relationships that went sour. I think he's recovering from these and he realises the effect these r/s have had both on him financially as well as emotionally. He and I do realise that he now has to get a grip and deal with the aftermath of those r/s and regain control of his own life. I can only help him so much though, the rest/ the main thing is that he has to help himself.

He's gonna go to Gamblers Anonymous and he's going to the GP to ask for referral to a psychiatrist. Pls see my post #35 above also re his finance issues.

Thank you.

You are a wonderful person. I think you are doing all the right things. I hope the counselling and teaching from you will give him the language to articulate himself and his needs. The long haul is to keep him attending the meetings, doing the OT and monitoring his finances regularly (if you can do it monthly, that will be enough). Please remember to take care of yourself too.

 

[HDer]

Just wanted to say that he's very very lucky to have a friend like you!

Gambling addiction is no joke. I wish your friend a speedy and permanent recovery.