Vendors - What makes for a great client?

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/14/2005 12

5:49 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Book Smart versus Street Smart: Book smart is good for definitions, but street smart comes by trial and error (costly in this endeavor), or alternately by using a street-smart guide who helps you learn the territory and avoid dangers.

(that''s where ''we'' come in)

Book Smart/Street Smart. I don''t think one understands the HUGE difference unless you are in the field w/ hands on experience of experience - whatever that expertise may be. It''s near impossible to convince the book smart that they aren''t street smart, especially if they believe their book smarts can translate.

But, having a knowledgable (able to understand the lingo & the relationship to cost, etc that the lingo will mean) does make the job easier. I have found the more knowledgable people are the less they think they know & the more they defer to the "pro".

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/14/2005 12:12

3 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
A further thought on gaining Street Smarts... By ''we'' I am referring to this PriceScope-type family of vendor/appraiser/science and consumer educators.

I think you are being kind in including consumers. I''m of the mind that a little knowledge *can* be dangerous.

 

[windowshopper]

just a thought: i know i for one know enough to be dangerous (to myself....

) but i still really dont feel confident in my decision making. imagine how the complete neophytes feel.

street smart--to me based on my experience (burned by buying a very expensive 3 plus carat E vvs diamond--poorly cut i discovered much later. When i tried to utilize the jeweler's 100% trade up policy after 5 years, they refused to return my phone calls for over a year and thus refused to honor their full trade in policy. When i tried to sell the stone was when i began my awareness of the importance of cut and began to "LEARN" about cut and how bad mine was.............) so that experience makes me completely distrustful even with the advantage of pricescope education............

book smart can make you over confident
street smart-jaded and distrustful

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/14/2005 9:56:12 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 2/14/2005 12:12

3 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
A further thought on gaining Street Smarts... By 'we' I am referring to this PriceScope-type family of vendor/appraiser/science and consumer educators.

I think you are being kind in including consumers. I'm of the mind that a little knowledge *can* be dangerous.

F&I

I intentionally used the word family, because in my opinion you can't have one without the others.

A society of just one ilk (vendors only for instance) would not constitute a "balanced" environment in which to gain the broad range of street smarts. On the real “street” you have a mix of heros, rogues and 'tweeners. All with their own angles, attitudes and approaches – and often with opposing views. PriceScope Education 101 is a collective, and whether delivering information, opinions, perspectives, arguments or humor it is the sum of the voices, not just individuals, which provides the collective balance.

Learning the ropes - street smarts – or by any other name - will of course depend on listening to a sage voice(s) of experience in the long run. However, the perspective offered in the global conversation that happens here is more powerful than any single voice.

New consumers play an important role because they ask questions which - even if posed before - need to be re-answered for the benefit of new participants and re-thought by trade pros so we have the chance to evolve or stay fresh.

Going back to Strmrdr’s original question… A valuable consumer, to me, is one who takes time to walk the beat of PS and gain this global perspective. Eventually he/she may select a guide in the form of a trusted vendor or appraiser to serve as lead counsel when making decisions on a purchase. If we’re lucky, that person will then continue to return and contribute his/her voice to the collective, making our PS family stronger and wiser.

In this way - much like "it takes a whole village to raise a child," we all serve roles here - and I hope that the children will return to tell their own stories around the campfire.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/14/2005 10:45:24 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 2/14/2005 9:56:12 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 2/14/2005 12:12

3 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
A further thought on gaining Street Smarts... By ''we'' I am referring to this PriceScope-type family of vendor/appraiser/science and consumer educators.

I think you are being kind in including consumers. I''m of the mind that a little knowledge *can* be dangerous.

A society of just one ilk (vendors only for instance) would not constitute a ''balanced'' environment in which to gain the broad range of street smarts. .

I''m in agreement that consumers do contribute much to the buying process here on PS. Consumer to consumer "chat'' is very useful in aiding one to go about the buying process.

My position was more in the lines of consumers who take the knowledge from book smarts learned here or elsewhere - and believe they know as much as an experienced jeweler. A little knowledge is dangerous. I''ve seen it happen over and over in my profession - either they don''t buy something (good deal) because a book told them the mark wasn''t right; or, they buy a fake because the mark is correct - just not real.

In the light that this relates to this thread, those consumers are the hardest to work with. Knowledge can be interpreted many ways. If you think your knowledge is hard and fast, it will be difficult to steer a client in a direction that you believe they will be happy with.

I may get several opinions on a tough diagnosis - from doctors, friends & former patients. But, at the end of the day, I would let the doctor diagnos & he would be the on doing the operation. I''m all for patient advocacy; but, the details left to experienced.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/14/2005 11:21:38 AM
Author: fire&ice

Consumer to consumer ''chat'' is very useful in aiding one to go about the buying process.

My position was more in the lines of consumers who take the knowledge from book smarts learned here or elsewhere - and believe they know as much as an experienced jeweler.[...]

In the light that this relates to this thread, those consumers are the hardest to work with

This must be that hit right on top of the nail, F&I !

I can only hope the PS listed sellers have been expecting the backclash... aside the useful peek behind the scenes and handy common language.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/14/2005 11:21:38 AM
Author: fire&ice

My position was more in the lines of consumers who take the knowledge from book smarts learned here or elsewhere - and believe they know as much as an experienced jeweler. A little knowledge is dangerous. I've seen it happen over and over in my profession -

That is assuming that the experienced jeweler knows what they are talking about.
There is an old saying in the real world some people have 20 years of experience and some have 1 years experience 20 times in 20 years and some have 20 years experence of doing the wrong thing.

There are consumers here that know more about the modern approach to diamonds than 90%+ of the jewelers out there.
Most jewelers haven’t kept up.
Why do you think they are screaming so loud and the labs are scrambling to get them some ammo to fight with?

The old days of blindly following a jeweler or any other professional are over.
The fact of the matter is that the days of blind trust from consumers are over.
I don’t know if it ever actually existed because when you talk to a lot in the older generation about buying jewelry you will often hear "I figure I probably got took 40 years ago but she wanted it so I bought it."


As for doctors I use the net to decide if i need to go see one about something or if there is a simple home remedy to try first or an otc med for it as do a ton of others.
Then I do research on any prescriptions once I get back to check for cautions or reactions with other medications.
Just makes sence :}

edit> after a pm from Feydakin he raised a point that I need to clarify.
The 90% number includes jewelers and sales people not just professional jewelers.

He also asked what percentage of consumers would I consider knowing the modern approach better than any but the top 10% of jewelers and sales people. My asnwer a tiny but growing percentage.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/14/2005 11:34:49 AM
Author: valeria101

Date: 2/14/2005 11:21:38 AM
Author: fire&ice

Consumer to consumer ''chat'' is very useful in aiding one to go about the buying process.

My position was more in the lines of consumers who take the knowledge from book smarts learned here or elsewhere - and believe they know as much as an experienced jeweler.[...]

In the light that this relates to this thread, those consumers are the hardest to work with

This must be that hit right on top of the nail, F&I !

I can only hope the PS listed sellers have been expecting the backclash... aside the useful peek behind the scenes and handy common language.

Actually for the right vendor they are easy to work with.
Read what the vendors are saying in this thread they want educated confident consumers.
Jon excels at working with them and enjoys it talk the talk with him and you get have a very enjoyable and educational conversation.
John does also.
How do I know?
Because I have these types of conversations with them a number of times a week.

If a vendor gives me enough information, I know enough about them and the price is right and the timing right the first they know of me looking might very well be an email saying "I want it where do I send the money?".
Ask Gary @ diamondexpert.com if that is true because Iv done that many times with colored gemstones from him.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/14/2005 11:43:15 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/14/2005 11:21:38 AM
Author: fire&ice

My position was more in the lines of consumers who take the knowledge from book smarts learned here or elsewhere - and believe they know as much as an experienced jeweler. A little knowledge is dangerous. I''ve seen it happen over and over in my profession -

That is assuming that the experienced jeweler knows what they are talking about.
There is an old saying in the real world some people have 20 years of experience and some have 1 years experience 20 times in 20 years and some have 20 years experence of doing the wrong thing.

There are consumers here that know more about the modern approach to diamonds than 90%+ of the jewelers out there.
Most jewelers haven’t kept up.
Why do you think they are screaming so loud and the labs are scrambling to get them some ammo to fight with?

The old days of blindly following a jeweler or any other professional are over.
The fact of the matter is that the days of blind trust from consumers are over.
I don’t know if it ever actually existed because when you talk to a lot in the older generation about buying jewelry you will often hear ''I figure I probably got took 40 years ago but she wanted it so I bought it.''


As for doctors I use the net to decide if i need to go see one about something or if there is a simple home remedy to try first or an otc med for it as do a ton of others.
Then I do research on any prescriptions once I get back to check for cautions or reactions with other medications.
Just makes sence :}

It''s not that black and white. I know of *many* jeweler''s (especially the owner/operator) that are knowledgable. Just because they don''t buy into this numbers HYPE doesn''t make them any less capable of looking at a diamond and knowing it''s a fine make. That''s experience. That''s hands on experience that NO amount of "book" smarts is going to make up for. I''ll leave the nano numbers discussion to someone else. But, until someone actually builds something from plans, they aren''t a builder.

Educated consumer - sure. Overconfident armchair expert - a royal pain to work with. I''ve seen too much of it in my profession. Sometimes they get lucky. Most of the time they get screwed via ego stroking.

A good jeweler (like anything) will be open enough via confidence to learn something from their clientel. A true expert usually doesn''t consider themselves to be experts.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/14/2005 12:12:17 PM
Author: fire&ice

Educated consumer - sure.; Overconfident armchair expert - a royal pain to work with.; I've seen too much of it in my profession.; Sometimes they get lucky.; Most of the time they get screwed via ego stroking.;

That nail must be aching by from the strikes by now F&I !

Your post reminds me a rather classic negotiation mantra: it never helps bragging about what you know...

I could not dismiss numbers off the bat. At least some amount of useful experience can be summarized by a model. For diamond cut grades... this amount appears quite substantial. There's not much choice for diamond shopping because lining up choices is so expensive. Anything compensating would be nice, I think.

Now, those grades definitely look like an arbitrary stake in the ground up to a point, and that couldn't have helped their prestige. Perhaps the new grading recipes will cure this - complex as they are.

 

[fire&ice]

Yes, that''s just it. A knowledgable & confident client will know enough to defer to the person who has the experience. A knowledgable & confident client *is* a joy to work with. An armchair expert who can not respect someone''s experience is too much work for me. And, it''s precisely those people that end up with fake Tiffany lamps - too much confidence.

And, I can always tell the jeweler who is just interested in selling. They are *always* on the same page as the client. I know someone has my back when they suggest things that may be of my interest. And, I know they have the confidence & experience to suggest such.

 

[crafftygrrl]

Windowshopper,

Have you ever thought of having your diamond recut? That way, you would have a much better diamond that you could reset or sell. I''m sure that there are many people on this forum that would be happy to help you out. Your "white elephant" (pardon the pun) could transform into a swan.

Claudia R.