Vaccinations-has anyone declined any?

[janinegirly]

The vaccinations-autism link discussion is a well known topic--and I know the general pros and cons of both sides. But I''m curious if anyone has actually turned down any vaccinations after researching the issues?
I saw Jenny Macarthy on Larry King, and some of what she says seems one-sided, but on the other hand she (and the doctors on the panel who agreed with her) have some good points about the # of vaccinations skyrocketing in the past 20 yrs. But I still haven''t actually met anyone who''s turned down some vaccinations or heard how mothers who agree with the Jenny Macarthy camp are even supposed to decipher between vaccinations which are absoultely crucial vs. excessive ones.

Out of curiousity does Canada also have a heavy vaccination schedule? I know we have alot of Canandians on this site, and if the theory of pharmaceuticals influencing the # of vaccinations is true, then one would be led to believe the same does not hold true in similarly developed countries like Canada,etc.

 

[neatfreak]

Personally I would never choose NOT to vaccinate my children. We depend on herd immunity to protect children who aren't vaccinated in the US but since many parents are now choosing not to vaccinate we are seeing resurgence of diseases that supposedly were eradicated in the US. And kids are dying as a result.

Some people may disagree but I think it's irresponsible not to vaccinate your children. I can understand that some people may want to space them out-but not doing it entirely just doesn't make sense to me when there have been no established medical links between the vaccinations and autism.

ETA: I should add that yes, Canada does have a vaccination schedule that is very similar to the US.

 

[janinegirly]

I don''t think anyone would entertain the idea of not vaccinating--I think some people are talking about spacing them out or asking for a similar schedule to pre-1990 (when they were about 1/4 as many shots required). However, I''ve never actually met anyone who did this...(space them out or decline recently added vaccinations).

Five shots at a time at 2, 4, 6 mo''s does seem like a lot to me, but like you, I''d never decline them--at least at this point in time, based on what I know now.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/6/2009 11:49:57 AM
Author: janinegirly
I don't think anyone would entertain the idea of not vaccinating

Sadly, there is a whole movement of people who are not vaccinating children these days. It's often in affluent areas actually because they count on other children's immunity to protect their own kids and it's usually the same crowd that only buys organic everything, shops exclusively at Whole Foods, don't let their kids eat cake at birthday parties, are well educated, etc. (not that there is anything wrong with those things-just painting the picture of who is doing this). But now there are so many not doing it that the diseases are coming back because there isn't a big enough "herd" at some schools anymore.

Here's an article on it from the LA Times just last week:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immunization29-2009mar29,0,3148179.story

Just google around there are many articles on this topic recently because many parents are choosing not to vaccinate at all.

 

[Pandora II]

Massive in my area of London - we only have about a 60% take-up rate.

As a result we had a measles epidemic last year, 15 kids ended up in hospital, two of whom died and 1 was left with severe brain damage.

Our child will be vaccinated with the triple-jab (individual ones are not really an option in the UK) at the appropriate time and have all other immunisations. There is no herd immunity at all right now.

(Also having had chickenpox and a very bad case of mumps as a child, I''d like to avoid that too!)

All the doctors I know (and that''s a lot considering most of DH''s and my families are doctors plus loads of our friends) have vaccinated their children with no qualms at all.

Dr Wakefield''s research has not been backed-up at all - he caused a lot of fear and some children probably died because of him.

 

[janinegirly]

Thanks for the link. Well that is pretty disturbing--especially since MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) is the one of the vaccinations the higher courts have actualy looked at and found it to have no link to autism. Plus it's been around for over 20 years (when rise in autism started) so logic would say it's not the cause for the spike.

The Jenny Mcartney camp was also saying it's not the MMR they're disputing but new vac's like Rotavirus. Vaccinations for disesases which are extremely rare in countries with basic good hygiene conditions, clean water,etc. And vaccinations heavily promoted by big pharmaceutical companies.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Ditto neatfreak on everything - as an immunologist/infectious disease expert, it makes me crazy to think about parents not vaccinating their children.

Also, on a personal note, I would love to think that improved vaccination schedules might save kids both in their childhood and also later in life from some nasty diseases. I had whooping cough (pertussis) a couple of years ago (at age 24), and it was HORRIBLE - I was so sick, for months, and could barely breathe without hacking so hard I pulled muscles and almost threw up. Turns out there is now a vaccine you can get as a booster later in life, but most doctors didn''t start offering it until recently.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/6/2009 12:15:46 PM
Author: janinegirly
Thanks for the link. Well that is pretty disturbing--especially since MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) is the one of the vaccinations the higher courts have actualy looked at and found it to have no link to autism. Plus it's been around for over 20 years (when rise in autism started) so logic would say it's not the cause for the spike.


The Jenny Mcartney camp was also saying it's not the MMR they're disputing but new vac's like Rotavirus. Vaccinations for disesases which are extremely rare in countries with basic good hygiene conditions, clean water,etc. And vaccinations heavily promoted by big pharmaceutical companies.

All Jenny McCarthy is to me is a former playboy model. She's not a doctor, has no medical training, and really IMO has no idea what she is talking about. I think she's really in over her head and unless she starts getting credible medical experts to agree with her I will be staying far away from any of her claims personally.

The other thing that's interesting about her son...she had a VERY difficult labor and IIRC her son lost oxygen for some amount of time. And she doesn't think that THAT might have to do with his developmental disabilities? She doesn't seem to understand that developmental disabilities often take awhile to notice in kids-hence why Evan didn't have problems until he was older.

I don't understand why she has such pull with people personally. It's like taking ring buying advice from the sales clerk at Zales-no idea what they are talking about but somehow convincing many people they do.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

somewhat ignorant non-parent here...Are vaccines given on an a la carte basis? can you really pick and choose which ones you want or do they just decide you''re going to get them all?

 

[janinegirly]

I agree she''s not exactly a credible spokesperson. But she is backed by at least a few from the medical community and it doesn''t hurt to follow through her camp''s argument if nothing else just to see if it holds any water. In general it does make sense to me to distrust any business/$$ mixed with medical professsion. Or at least question it.

 

[luvmyhalo]

My daughter is 2 and I haven''t declined any vaccinations but I DO spread them out. At her 12 mo. appt, she got several at once and it was really taxing on her little body. Since then, I have spread them out a few months apart and she''s done much better this way.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/6/2009 12:35:22 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
somewhat ignorant non-parent here...Are vaccines given on an a la carte basis? can you really pick and choose which ones you want or do they just decide you're going to get them all?

It's your child...generally you can do what you want-but they will recommend against it.

But there is no problem generally with spreading them out a bit-it's just refusing them altogether that they recommend against.

 

[ChinaCat]

Glad you started this topic, Janine. It''s been a matter of conversation amongst my friends lately. I have one friend who is considering delaying all vaccinations until after 6 months and doing the delayed/reduced schedule as well. She is very intelligent, but I can''t really get my head around her arguments. In her case, however, her DH is very against any shots before 6 months at all, and would prefer no shots. His family is as well, I don''t think any of the nieces/nephews have gotten shots- except for the oldest one who has severe problems, that I think they may think was tied to shots. I don''t really know the whole story. She is really struggling with trying to figure out the right thing to do.

I just haven''t heard any justification that sways me. I am curious about the increased amount of shots and would consider perhaps not getting 6-8 shots at once, as long as the only negative would be an inconvenience for me time-wise as far as more doctor visits. But I absolutely will vaccinate my kids.

I do feel for people who have been affected by autism in their families, and understand wanting to find a link.

Neat- funny Jenny McCarthy analogy! Again, I applaud anyone who is drawing more attention to any cause or disease, but I think it can be dangerous when one doesn''t know what they are talking about.

I also would be interested in anyone out there who is doing the delayed/no shot thing. Please don''t be afraid to come out and share your views. I hope this thread can stay positive and informative and no one should feel judged by saying their piece.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 4/6/2009 12:39:41 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 4/6/2009 12:35:22 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

somewhat ignorant non-parent here...Are vaccines given on an a la carte basis? can you really pick and choose which ones you want or do they just decide you''re going to get them all?

It''s your child...generally you can do what you want-but they will recommend against it.


But there is no problem generally with spreading them out a bit-it''s just refusing them altogether that they recommend against.

I meant more declining the random rare ones like the Rotavirus. I''m 100% in the necessary vaccine camp but I don''t want to bombard my child with unnecessary ones. There''s nothing wrong with prophylactic vaccination prior to traveling to areas of concern.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 4/6/2009 12:39:41 PM
Author: luvmyhalo
My daughter is 2 and I haven''t declined any vaccinations but I DO spread them out. At her 12 mo. appt, she got several at once and it was really taxing on her little body. Since then, I have spread them out a few months apart and she''s done much better this way.

Ditto - I did the same thing with DS who is now 2 and a half. I also waited & did the MMR during appointments when he wasn''t getting any other vaccines. He was completely vaccinated by age 2, instead of 18 months, like most kids - it just took us a little longer to catch up. It was OK for us because he''s not in day care, so he didn''t need to get them on schedule in order to attend. We actually got all of them "on time" instead of MMR, which I did about 6 months late.

 

[Jas12]

Janine --there are many good books on this topic. Might be worth looking into. Yes, candada has a pretty extensive vaccination schedule. Not sure if it is identical however.
It was a hard one for me. In the end i turned down Rottavirus (i just thought it was too new) and delayed the others. I have not gone in for the MMR yet and my son is almost a year, but i most likely will.

Q for any Dr''s/nurses reading this: I just had shingles and was nursing my son during the outbreak. He did not contract Chicken pox and i wonder if he developed any secondary immunity thru either BF or exposure?? Should he still get vaccinated? Anyone have any idea?

 

[qtiekiki]

I don''t know anyone who had/will go on a delayed vaccination schedule, but I constantly read it in posts on thebump. As long as the baby is not in daycare or around other babies/kids, I think it''s fine and it''s the parents'' choice. Once they are among other kids, I think it''s irresponsible because the parents are putting their kids and other people''s kids in danger.

As far as the link between certain vaccines and autism, the topic is constroverial. That''s why there''s doctors backing up Jenny McCartney. Keep in mind, the autistic characteristics show up around the same time that vaccines are administrated. Does that mean vaccination lead to autism? Not necessarily. Neither is the opposite true. It''s one of those topics that will never have a concrete "answer".

I think it''s totally crazy for parents to refuse MMR vaccination. I can see refusing varicella (chicken pox), but MMR. Parents really needs to read up on the diseases before refusing. Unfortunately that''s just not the case.

 

[mela lu]

Date: 4/6/2009 12:42:11 PM
Author: ChinaCat
I also would be interested in anyone out there who is doing the delayed/no shot thing. Please don't be afraid to come out and share your views. I hope this thread can stay positive and informative and no one should feel judged by saying their piece.

I ditto what ChinaCat said. I'd love to hear about people's experience with delayed schedules and which, if any, they have declined and why.

My SIL has declined quite a few for her 3 kids, but I have yet to sit down and get the details with her. Its on my list of things to do! lol

ETA: I'm Canadian. FWIW.

 

[janinegirly]

How do you go about spacing out vaccinations--do you bring it up with your pedi who works on a 2ndary schedule? Or is it up to the mother to come up with their own version.

I think I''d like to space them out more. She''s already had everything up to 6 mo''s, but I did feel uncomfortable with the # she had. Plus she screamed every time, before the needle even hit (as if she knew), which makes me want her to at least have less in each visit.

Rotavirus is one I''m not 100% sure about, but she''s already received all shots. And just by coincidence she never got Hep B (didn''t receive it w/first doctor and then we moved, so next doctor had thought we already received it,etc. Anyway, he wanted me to add it, but I just couldnt'' give her yet another shot when she''d already had 5 shots, so said I''d rather wait).

 

[Burk]

Janine~We''ve delayed some for various reasons and have always just had open discussions with T''s pedi and worked it out with him and the nurses. I would say talk to Chloe''s doctor.

 

[qtiekiki]

I take it back that I don''t know anyone with a delayed vaccination schedule. SIL has our nephew get two shots at a time, so he was getting two shots every month from 2 months to 6 months. I am not sure what her plan for the 12 months shots are. Her reason has nothing to do with autism, but she thinks it lessens the chance of a fever.

Janine
Seems like most moms come up with their own schedule. I would suggest talking to pedi if he is supportive, then u can come up with a schedule together. I know some offices are not supportive.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Okay, I deleted my longer post mostly because I bet I'll be one of very few who have postponed vaccinations and my kids are 6 & 8 and we're still waiting a few more years. I could spend hours debating this here, but don't have the time this week due to moving. I don't want to go round and round on the issue.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I agree Neatfreak.
I am a nurse and have studied the different diseases and the immunizations. All three of our kids have been vaccinated and they do get the flu shot every year. My 6 year old has infection induced asthma and getting the flu (even a cold) is no picnic for him.

 

[curlygirl]

Ditto everything neatfreak said!

We've never declined or spaced out the vaccinations with either child. I figure it's easier to get them over with at once rather than making multiple trips to the pedi's office--I fear that they will associate the doctor's office with the place that they get shots and it will be baaaaaad! I've been lucky so far that my children haven't had any adverse effects from the vaccines and have found that a little preventive baby Tylenol before going to the doctor may have helped.

I'm actually going to defend the Rotavirus vaccine. First of all, it's oral so it doesn't hurt your child. Second of all, Lily contracted Rotavirus and because she had been vaccinated, it saved her (and us!) a trip to the emergency room. It was a "minor" case of it and although I was annoyed that she got it all, I learned that the vaccine doesn't necessarily prevent it but it certainly does lessen the severity.

Ultimately, it is the parents' decision about how they want to handle the spacing of the shots but I guess there is a reason why they are planned out the way they are. I'm not a doctor but since our pediatrician has children of her own, I pretty much follow her advice--if it's good enough for her kids, it's good enough for mine! That doesn't mean I'm ignorant and don't read about these cases, I just choose to believe that my doctor would not purposefully do something that will hurt my children.

 

[iluvcarats]

Last year when my daughter was 9 I declined to give her Gardasil for two reasons.
1. It is new, and I wanted to research it first.
2. She was 9, and at an age where she wanted to know what her shots were for, and she wasn''t emotionally ready to comprehend STDs.
I will probably give it to her, but not for a few more years. There have been some reports of bad reactions to it, and I want to wait a little longer because of that too.

 

[AmberWaves]

I also agree with NF. As a very major asthma sufferer, anytime I''d get even a cough or cold I''d have to have adrenaline shots and be put on nebulizer treatments. I got chicken pox when I was 18 and nearly died. My parents were hippies and believed the body takes care of itself. Until I was hospitalized 7 or so times by the time I was seven, one instance I was a minute away from dying in the car. It was at that point they saw the need to keep my body healthy- and not just with bulghur wheat and bee pollen!

I dunno, if I can avoid having my child subjected to the terrible illnesses I had growing up, I''m all for it. In the end, because of all my asthma and allergic issues, I was stuck with a needle MANY MANY times more than a vaccination.

 

[mela lu]

Date: 4/6/2009 1:50:36 PM
Author: iluvcarats
Last year when my daughter was 9 I declined to give her Gardasil for two reasons.

1. It is new, and I wanted to research it first.

2. She was 9, and at an age where she wanted to know what her shots were for, and she wasn't emotionally ready to comprehend STDs.

I will probably give it to her, but not for a few more years. There have been some reports of bad reactions to it, and I want to wait a little longer because of that too.

This is one vaccination I'm not 100% sold on either. I have time before my kid(s) enter this phase of their lives, but this is a good example of one I *may* decline.

In your case iluvcarats, I see your point. It is SO new - that scares me a little. I'm in healthcare marketing, so I tend to be very very skeptical of the way things are marketed - and I tend to do my own research a lot before buying into any Pharmaceutical offering.

That said, I'm still not sure about this topic in general. I'm still in my own exploratory phase.

I've never had the flu shot. I trust my body and it's immune system...and I'm very rarely sick. This doesn't mean I wont' give it to my kids though. I probably will because of their environments.

I just wrote a lot without saying anything. haha. Maybe I should take that song's advice "You say it best when you say nothing at all". haha. Sorry for the rambling.

 

[VegasAngel]

I didnt decline any, but I did not want my daughter to get the varicella vaccine. Wish I would have stood my ground on that one.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/6/2009 2:05:16 PM
Author: mela lu

Date: 4/6/2009 1:50:36 PM

Author: iluvcarats

Last year when my daughter was 9 I declined to give her Gardasil for two reasons.


1. It is new, and I wanted to research it first.


2. She was 9, and at an age where she wanted to know what her shots were for, and she wasn''t emotionally ready to comprehend STDs.


I will probably give it to her, but not for a few more years. There have been some reports of bad reactions to it, and I want to wait a little longer because of that too.

This is one vaccination I''m not 100% sold on either. I have time before my kid(s) enter this phase of their lives, but this is a good example of one I *may* decline.


In your case iluvcarats, I see your point. It is SO new - that scares me a little. I''m in healthcare marketing, so I tend to be very very skeptical of the way things are marketed - and I tend to do my own research a lot before buying into any Pharmaceutical offering.


That said, I''m still not sure about this topic in general. I''m still in my own exploratory phase.

Just to be clear there is a BIG difference between Gardasil and the other vacs we are talking about. All the other ones are REQUIRED to attend school in many places and thus are routine vaccines (most places have waivers for parents who say no) whereas Gardasil is NOT REQUIRED. It''s a choice and even the CDC is not recommending it be made mandatory.

So while you may be offered it, it isn''t seen as the same routine vaccines every kid gets unless you object. You have to select it.

 

[janinegirly]

curly, thanks for sharing--that''s part of the reason i started this thread--to hear real life experiences. You''re right that rotavirus is an oral vaccination. However Chloe still tried fight it and gurgle it out! Both times she also had a fever, so that''s part of the reason I hate shot times!

In the end, I''m sure I''ll have her have the full schedule, but it''s interesting to hear what others have done (including those who delayed/declined).