Upgrade to Better Quality Similar Size Worth It?

[rgladiator]

I bought my wife's engagement ring back in 1999 and I've been thinking about surprising her with an upgrade. I'm wondering if getting a similar carat weight but better quality would be worth it? Would improving the cut, symmetry, proportions, etc. add enough sparkle and fire or do I really need to go to a larger stone as well to make a significant difference?

To give you an idea here is what I remember about the stone. I don't have the GIA report with me right now but these should be in the ballpark.

Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 1.24
Color: I
Clarity: SI1 or SI2 (don't remember exactly)
Cut Grade: I don't think they did this back then
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good

I'll try and fill in more details later.

 

[brellymom]

Assuming she's okay with a new stone (no sentimental hesitation), I would not have any problem getting a better cut even if the same size - and if she's color sensitive and you were able to move up in color and/or clarity at the same time - i'd go for it. I think a better cut even if the same size will be noticeable and therefore a win! Let us know what you decide - what fun!

 

[04diamond<3]

I bought my wife's engagement ring back in 1999 and I've been thinking about surprising her with an upgrade. I'm wondering if getting a similar carat weight but better quality would be worth it? Would improving the cut, symmetry, proportions, etc. add enough sparkle and fire or do I really need to go to a larger stone as well to make a significant difference?

To give you an idea here is what I remember about the stone. I don't have the GIA report with me right now but these should be in the ballpark.

Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 1.24
Color: I
Clarity: SI1 or SI2 (don't remember exactly)
Cut Grade: I don't think they did this back then
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good

I'll try and fill in more details later.

Absolutely!!!! What a great idea! I love it when guys come in and want to surprise their wives with an upgrade!!!! What's your budget? What size were you looking for? Once we know this we can help with ideas. Will you be getting a new setting to? Something simple or temporary? That's also a sweet idea, let her choose the setting! She'll be floored I'm sure!

 

[Roxy]

I bought my wife's engagement ring back in 1999 and I've been thinking about surprising her with an upgrade. I'm wondering if getting a similar carat weight but better quality would be worth it? Would improving the cut, symmetry, proportions, etc. add enough sparkle and fire or do I really need to go to a larger stone as well to make a significant difference?

To give you an idea here is what I remember about the stone. I don't have the GIA report with me right now but these should be in the ballpark.

Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 1.24
Color: I
Clarity: SI1 or SI2 (don't remember exactly)
Cut Grade: I don't think they did this back then
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good

I'll try and fill in more details later.

Assuming she's okay with a new stone (no sentimental hesitation), I would not have any problem getting a better cut even if the same size - and if she's color sensitive and you were able to move up in color and/or clarity at the same time - i'd go for it. I think a better cut even if the same size will be noticeable and therefore a win! Let us know what you decide - what fun!

I LOVE this idea! Go for it!! I agree w/ Brellymom, definitely go up in color, because even just one level higher to "H" will look much whiter than her current "I" because a superior cut diamond faces up whiter. Also, size-wise you want to focus on the dimensions of the stone as well as the carat weight. So start w/ the measurements of her current stone & try to get something w/ slightly larger dimensions. So not only will the new rock measure a little larger (& superior cut stones usually provide a larger spread), the dazzling light return will also play a role in the appearance of overall size (the bigger, the better). Wow, she's a lucky lady. Please have her post before & after pics. This is so exciting!!

 

[chrono]

I've done this before - kept the same carat weight thereabouts but improved on the cut and never ever regretted it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would try to go up a little in every spec. Definitely GIA excellent cut, maybe h color, vs2 or si1 clarity, and I'd try to make it into the 1.3 to 1.4 range while you're at it!

 

[chrono]

Yup, if you can swing it, up the colour and clarity from I to H, SI2 to SI1 while you are at it too.

 

[FancyDiamond]

I would upgrade as follows:

from
Carat Weight: 1.24
Color: I
Clarity: SI1 or SI2 (don't remember exactly)
Cut Grade: I don't think they did this back then
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good

to
Carat Weight: at least 1.45
Color: Same, I
Clarity: eye-clean VS2 or SI1
Cut Grade: ideal cut (including polish and symmetry)

because what are most readily observed
1. size and cut
2. color
3. clarity

 

[ame]

I would not do anything as a surprise at all, I would include her in this decision. Tell her you want to surprise her with an upgrade, and that is the surprise, that it's an upgrade. Let her choose the specs. She might want a different shape altogether now.

 

[rgladiator]

To give a little background, we've been talking about doing a vow renewal / re-commitment ceremony next year. We started with getting something simple such as his and her rings with our birthstones and maybe the kid's birthstone as well. This led to a discussion on how she'd really like to upgrade her wedding band to something fancier because she often can't wear her engagement ring at work. I asked, "Would you want to upgrade your engagement ring as well?" She said "Sure." "Don't you want to keep your ring for sentimental value?" "Yes but if I can get a two carrat diamond... ha ha ha." She said that knowing full well that two carrats are out of our budget but it got me thinking. She likes her engagement band and getting a similar sized and better quality diamond would fit nicely. It would also allow us to possibly upgrade both her wedding band and engagement ring with a new set. I'm trying to keep the total at around $14 -15,000 including setting. Many of the settings we've looked at were in the $2-4,000 range. This is when I thought an upgrade diamond with much better quality but not necessarily a lot bigger could fit in the budget. I know she would be shocked in the best way to get a whole new set. Also, I know for 100% certainty that she only wants round.

 

[LaraOnline]

Ooh this is very exciting!!

Would it be totally crazy to search for AGS0 stones only? This would sort the cut question out!
Start by looking at AGS0 stones in your current weight, color, clarity, and take it from there...
Tbh once I had cut sorted, I would consider a small increase in size next then look at improving the other specs.

But...it's very personal lol.
Has your wife made any comments regarding her ring, such as she loves it but....
...wishes there was slightly more diamond....

Or loves the size, but wishes the color was better? Etc that might help you set your parameters.

Time frames might mean you can't insist on AGS only though of course.

Personally I'd love an AGS graded stone ....

ETA: oops, I see size is on the table then lol

 

[SB621]

I would not do anything as a surprise at all, I would include her in this decision. Tell her you want to surprise her with an upgrade, and that is the surprise, that it's an upgrade. Let her choose the specs. She might want a different shape altogether now.

I think this is a very excellent point! I know when my DH proposed he got me a D, RB diamond. It was beautiful, but ulimately I just like lower colored diamonds. If I could change it now I would probably do a K in an asscher or emerald cut. I like incorporate your wife in and seeing what she has to say.

 

[Lula]

To give a little background, we've been talking about doing a vow renewal / re-commitment ceremony next year. We started with getting something simple such as his and her rings with our birthstones and maybe the kid's birthstone as well. This led to a discussion on how she'd really like to upgrade her wedding band to something fancier because she often can't wear her engagement ring at work. I asked, "Would you want to upgrade your engagement ring as well?" She said "Sure." "Don't you want to keep your ring for sentimental value?" "Yes but if I can get a two carrat diamond... ha ha ha." She said that knowing full well that two carrats are out of our budget but it got me thinking. She likes her engagement band and getting a similar sized and better quality diamond would fit nicely. It would also allow us to possibly upgrade both her wedding band and engagement ring with a new set. I'm trying to keep the total at around $14 -15,000 including setting. Many of the settings we've looked at were in the $2-4,000 range. This is when I thought an upgrade diamond with much better quality but not necessarily a lot bigger could fit in the budget. I know she would be shocked in the best way to get a whole new set. Also, I know for 100% certainty that she only wants round.

Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary and vow renewal! I think you should think about going up in size a bit. If she's happy with the current color and clarity, she'd be happy with an H color and SI clarity. Don't waste your money on a branded stone -- focus on getting a well-cut GIA XXX diamond, and bump up the carat weight as much as your budget allows.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465250.asp
This one scores 1.7 on the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA) a screening tool we use around here to narrow the field of potentially well-cut stones (a score of under 2.0 means the stone is worth getting more information on). This diamond may not be eye clean; you'd have to ask James Allen's opinion on that, and take a look at it yourself to make sure it looks clean to you. But it's well within your budget. Make sure to put any stone recommended here on hold ASAP (it's free) if you're interested in getting more information on it, to prevent lurkers on this site from stealing it out from under you.

 

[Rosebloom]

To give a little background, we've been talking about doing a vow renewal / re-commitment ceremony next year. We started with getting something simple such as his and her rings with our birthstones and maybe the kid's birthstone as well. This led to a discussion on how she'd really like to upgrade her wedding band to something fancier because she often can't wear her engagement ring at work. I asked, "Would you want to upgrade your engagement ring as well?" She said "Sure." "Don't you want to keep your ring for sentimental value?" "Yes but if I can get a two carrat diamond... ha ha ha." She said that knowing full well that two carrats are out of our budget but it got me thinking. She likes her engagement band and getting a similar sized and better quality diamond would fit nicely. It would also allow us to possibly upgrade both her wedding band and engagement ring with a new set. I'm trying to keep the total at around $14 -15,000 including setting. Many of the settings we've looked at were in the $2-4,000 range. This is when I thought an upgrade diamond with much better quality but not necessarily a lot bigger could fit in the budget. I know she would be shocked in the best way to get a whole new set. Also, I know for 100% certainty that she only wants round.

Sounds to me like she'd be thrilled with a larger stone with ideal cut. Personally I'd keep the I color if it doesn't bother her and do an eye clean stone. Some settings can accommodate a larger diamond with a new head so that may be an option. Good luck!

 

[ame]

I like that she is not totally in the dark but I STILL think she should be involved in the selection. I think when she has the ability to see things in person it might change what is important to her. She might like a warmer stone, or might not notice inclusions as much. But I think this should be a team effort if at all possible. It's a nice sentiment to surprise her with it, I just think in practice she might want to be involved.

 

[rgladiator]

I like that she is not totally in the dark but I STILL think she should be involved in the selection. I think when she has the ability to see things in person it might change what is important to her. She might like a warmer stone, or might not notice inclusions as much. But I think this should be a team effort if at all possible. It's a nice sentiment to surprise her with it, I just think in practice she might want to be involved.

I'm not disagreeing. The good thing is I'm not in a huge rush. She just started looking at websites of local jewelers to pick out settings and bands. I brought up the idea of maybe getting her diamond put in a new setting so she could get the new wedding band that would match. After she's narrowed things down we will go to the jewelers and I'll have her look at other stones. You know, because we are already here and it's fun to look at nice things. This should give me a really good idea.

FYI: so far her favorite settings are http://www.markschneiderdesign.com/engagement-rings/vintage-engagement-rings/forever-engagement-ring and http://www.zimmerbrothers.com/bridal/jabel/3/diamond-engagement-ring/1534/

 

[Lula]

I like that she is not totally in the dark but I STILL think she should be involved in the selection. I think when she has the ability to see things in person it might change what is important to her. She might like a warmer stone, or might not notice inclusions as much. But I think this should be a team effort if at all possible. It's a nice sentiment to surprise her with it, I just think in practice she might want to be involved.

I'm not disagreeing. The good thing is I'm not in a huge rush. She just started looking at websites of local jewelers to pick out settings and bands. I brought up the idea of maybe getting her diamond put in a new setting so she could get the new wedding band that would match. After she's narrowed things down we will go to the jewelers and I'll have her look at other stones. You know, because we are already here and it's fun to look at nice things. This should give me a really good idea.

FYI: so far her favorite settings are http://www.markschneiderdesign.com/engagement-rings/vintage-engagement-rings/forever-engagement-ring and http://www.zimmerbrothers.com/bridal/jabel/3/diamond-engagement-ring/1534/

I like the Mark Schneider setting very much. Have you and she seen this setting in person? Will your local jeweler set a stone that you bring in, or will you be required to buy the stone from them?
Another stone suggestion http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1493578.asp just to give you some idea of what is available from a respected online vendor in your budget.

 

[ame]

Couple more. I am not a fan of 60/60
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1380416.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1533289.asp

not sure about eye cleanliness.

Others:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.522-J-SI1-Round-Diamond-AGS-BL-104062571030

this looks awesome
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.532-J-SI1-Round-Diamond-AGS-BL-104062571042

 

[Phoenix]

Congrats on your upcoming renewal ceremony. How sweet!

Tell me, is your budget inclusive of the setting for the ering only or does it include the wedding band? Also, is it 100% firm? I agree with Ame that your wife should partipate in the decision-making process. You could have a few stones sent out to you or your appraiser so she can decide what she'd like. I have a few options for you to choose from.

i) a BGD "blue": you could stick to I and the fluor would make the stone much whiter. This one is reserved but they replenish their stock I think every couple of months. You could also ask them to keep an eye out for something of your specs. I am including it in here to show that this one/ or something like it is within/ near your budget and would knock her socks out!

With 5% PS and wire discounts, the price is $14,245:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.620-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104062571032

For fluor though, I'd suggest that you go with medium blue if she's not used to it or is not aware of it. Even for me, who have quite a few diamonds and have seen lots and lots, the med blue fluor "tinge" is hardly noticeable except that it makes a colour look whiter than it is, particularly useful in stones from I onwards. A med blue stone of similar specs should cost about the same.

ii) You said your wife would like a 2ct, this is close to it and I'd bet that it's eyeclean (I have an Si2 from BGD that is completely eyeclean and most pple - even the professsionals - think it's closer to an Si1):

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.713-h-si2-round-diamond-ags-104062571034

iii) Same price as option ii above. I don't like *this* particular one (as it appears to have a large-ish crystal at or near the table), but again you could ask them to reserve something similar for you in their upcoming shipment(s). It is absolulely white (if this is what she'd prefer) and is a good combination of colour and clarity, albeit a bit smaller than the two above.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.427-g-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104061142001#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/0/

Note that all these stones are super-ideal cut and so they'll face up white or be white; they'll also look large for their carat weight (compared to poorly cut stones or even compared to some GIA excellent/ VG cut stones).

 

[rgladiator]

Congrats on your upcoming renewal ceremony. How sweet!

Tell me, is your budget inclusive of the setting for the ering only or does it include the wedding band? Also, is it 100% firm? I agree with Ame that your wife should partipate in the decision-making process. You could have a few stones sent out to you or your appraiser so she can decide what she'd like. I have a few options for you to choose from.

Not 100% firm but the settings my wife is now leaning towards have gone from the 2-3K range up to the 4-5K range which is putting a lot of pressure on the diamond price.

 

[rgladiator]

I like the Mark Schneider setting very much. Have you and she seen this setting in person? Will your local jeweler set a stone that you bring in, or will you be required to buy the stone from them?

Going to look tomorrow and ask that question. I'm betting they will be happy to mount my stone but I will verify. I've bought several things from them over the years so I doubt if I'll have too much problem. Well, it's almost 1AM so I'm going to bed.

 

[Rosebloom]

Congrats on your upcoming renewal ceremony. How sweet!

Tell me, is your budget inclusive of the setting for the ering only or does it include the wedding band? Also, is it 100% firm? I agree with Ame that your wife should partipate in the decision-making process. You could have a few stones sent out to you or your appraiser so she can decide what she'd like. I have a few options for you to choose from.

Not 100% firm but the settings my wife is now leaning towards have gone from the 2-3K range up to the 4-5K range which is putting a lot of pressure on the diamond price.

Another thing to think about - if it were me and I knew a bigger diamond was possible, I'd quickly fall in love with a $1,500 setting so I'd have more to spend on the rock!

 

[rgladiator]

Here are 3 diamonds I put on hold. Any feedback? I won't actually talk to anyone until Monday when they are back in the office so I have time to pick different ones if something better comes along.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465250.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1515348.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1524589.asp

 

[Roxy]

Here are 3 diamonds I put on hold. Any feedback? I won't actually talk to anyone until Monday when they are back in the office so I have time to pick different ones if something better comes along.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465250.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1515348.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1524589.asp

I think #2 gets first place & #3 would come in second (& I'm someone who prefers icy rocks, so I usually go for the higher color). In this case though, the initial info is pointing to #2 and I'd just ask the vendor for pics from every angle so I could assess the tint (unfortunately I'm color sensitive )! Personally, I wouldn't pursue #1 at all once I saw "med blue" fluorescence but that's purely a personal choice. A lot of people like fluorescence.

Both 2 & 3 have excellent HCA scores: #2=0.8 & #3=1.4 and they're both appx the same ct wt at 1.60 & 1.61. However, as I mentioned to you in my earlier post, don't get hung up on carat wt, look at the actual MEASUREMENTS of the stones when comparing one w/ another. So here again, #2 wins out w/ dimensions = 7.65x7.61 vs #3 which measures 7.46x7.47. And yes, every fraction of every mm makes a difference in the mind of a PSer .

Last, but not at all least, since #2 has higher clarity at VS2 that should give you a slight peace of mind, but for both VS2 & SI1 you'll need to double-check w/ the vendor to confirm they're eye-clean. I'm just a consumer so I hope this is helpful, and I'm sure the experts & long-time PSers will have a bunch of additional suggestions. I'm SO EXCITED for your wife, you're really gonna take her breath away!! .

 

[rgladiator]

I've verified with my local jeweler that they have no problem putting my stone in one of their settings. The wife and I spent about 2.5 hours there picking out a setting and she found the one she likes. I also had my jeweler give us some diamond education. He brought out a set of GIA color graded stones to show the differences between G-J, demonstrated differences between quality of cuts, etc. She didn't like the yellowness of the J but also admitted when a J wasn't sitting right next to an H or I she couldn't tell the difference. I could still tell the difference but I'm funny like that. She saw a couple of "Heart Star" diamonds that were only a little bigger but significantly better cut and was blown away by how "clear and sparkly they were." The thing is after seeing some of these high end stones my wife started hinting that some day an upgrade would be nice.

Ok, I'll stop my story telling now. The point is I know I'm on the right track!


Side note: This may be old news here but I found the GIA has a free iPhone app that explains the 4c's, has a place for notes, and allows you to verify report numbers.

 

[rgladiator]

I think I've narrowed my selection down to these 3. Any opinions?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1538554.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1475328.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1491857.asp

What I like about them is they upgrade everything without stretching my budget too far. Bigger size, better color, better cut, better clarity.

 

[Lula]

I think I've narrowed my selection down to these 3. Any opinions?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1538554.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1475328.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1491857.asp

What I like about them is they upgrade everything without stretching my budget too far. Bigger size, better color, better cut, better clarity.

You did a great job choosing three contenders -- and I see you've got them on hold, too. Bravo. I think H is a great color choice, given what you wrote above.

You could narrow your choices down to two if there's a big jump in price for the VS1 stone versus the two VS2 stone.

Also, while each of these diamonds achieves the AGS 0 cut grade, and are similar in size, color and clarity, they will have different personalities:

#3 is the "safe" choice. Its proportions are closest to what you see recommended most often on PS.
#2 is a bit deep and the table is a bit small for my tastes. This diamond may throw off a lot of fire, but may look dark-ish and lack brilliance due to the high crown, small table, and the depth of the stone. I say "may" because each diamond is different, and this stone has longer lower girdles (79) which may influence the look of the stone.
#1 is a 60/60 diamond, which gets you a lot of face-up size for the stone's weight (compare the diameters of the three stones to see what I mean). Many people on PS are not fans of 60/60 diamonds. In my view, if they are well-cut, they can be beautiful and very bright diamonds.

So your choice really comes down to your and your wife's eyesight and personal preference. The JA gemologist will give you his/her honest assessment of the stones. When he/she does, you can post the feedback here if you'd like more input.

 

[rgladiator]

Well, I pulled the trigger. Here is the short story:

I ended up telling my wife exactly what I had planned. I explained everything I've learned as best I could and she gave me her specific criteria for what would make her happy. She wanted me to pick out the final diamond without her so it would be a "surprise". We reviewed some diamonds at various online sites to make sure I had a good idea of what she wanted. I ended up going a bit over budget but this is what I will be receiving:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1514737.asp

I think this will knock her socks off, make her put on new socks, and knock those off as well. Maybe I'll start calling her socky. (No, I really wouldn't call her that)

Thanks everyone for your input, both those of you who commented here and those who added all the information on this site that I've learned from!

 

[Christina...]

It would knock more than my socks off! Did I really just say that?? I think that your wife is going to be beyond thrilled with her new rings! Congrats on the upcoming anniversary and the vow renewals!

 

[Enerchi]

Well, I pulled the trigger. Here is the short story:

I ended up telling my wife exactly what I had planned. I explained everything I've learned as best I could and she gave me her specific criteria for what would make her happy. She wanted me to pick out the final diamond without her so it would be a "surprise". We reviewed some diamonds at various online sites to make sure I had a good idea of what she wanted. I ended up going a bit over budget but this is what I will be receiving:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1514737.asp

I think this will knock her socks off, make her put on new socks, and knock those off as well. Maybe I'll start calling her socky. (No, I really wouldn't call her that)

Thanks everyone for your input, both those of you who commented here and those who added all the information on this site that I've learned from!

WHOA!! Too late to the party, but rgladiator, you DONE GOOD, MAN!!!
VERY nice diamond - that's quite the jump in size, colour and quality - good one!! You are a hero among husbands (but if you call her socky, you just fell to the bottom of the barrel on that one! )