Update on world progress fixing anti-vax parents

[kenny]

Good news!

https://www.vox.com/science-and-hea...cine-fines-measles-outbreaks-europe-australia

 

[Arkteia]

While the health authorities are trying to crack down on parents refusing to vaccinate their kids, another problem might be emerging...

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...ion-movement-spreading-pets-article-1.3378664

As the article says, rabies vaccinations are mandatory, but unbased claims about unsafety of vaccines in kids might scare pet owners. So if the trend is true, we might see more dystemper in dogs. And since there was an allegation about the connection between dystemper virus and human MS, God knows what will happen to humans.

I have watched the behavior of two groups, antivaxxers and believers in conspiracies. I have no way to prove it but believe that both groups score higher than average on paranoia. To me, the fact that the new HPV vaccine might decrease three types of cancer was enough to vaccinate my son, and i simply can not understand the mentality of the people who play with the health of someone dependent on them.

 

[Gussie]

I am all for freedom of choice in health matters but...BIG BUT, when my son was immunosuppressed from chemo and couldn't be vaccinated, I totally steered him clear of kids whose parents were antivax. In fact they made me angry. It is called herd immunity for a reason.

 

[Arkteia]

I am all for freedom of choice in health matters but...BIG BUT, when my son was immunosuppressed from chemo and couldn't be vaccinated, I totally steered him clear of kids whose parents were antivax. In fact they made me angry. It is called herd immunity for a reason.

I am sorry, Ceg. My mom had smoldering leukemia and I saw what chemo was and the danger of immunosuppression. I'd be angry, too.

 

[OoohShiny]

Ok, potentially daft question / train of thought coming up...


... If kids and adults who have been immunised are therefore immune to a given infection, does it matter if others don't immunise? If non-immunisers are presumably knowingly placing themselves/their kids at greater potential risk and have deemed that risk as acceptable, and that group of individuals are all together in their views and the only ones at risk (because the immunised won't get infected), surely the risk only falls on the group that finds that risk acceptable, so why should we pressurise them into immunising if the only others at risk are those who accept that risk (rather than 'innocent parties')?


EDIT: Cross-posted with the posts above, which have answered my question!!

 

[Octo2005]

Ok, potentially daft question / train of thought coming up...


... If kids and adults who have been immunised are therefore immune to a given infection, does it matter if others don't immunise? If non-immunisers are presumably knowingly placing themselves/their kids at greater potential risk and have deemed that risk as acceptable, and that group of individuals are all together in their views and the only ones at risk (because the immunised won't get infected), surely the risk only falls on the group that finds that risk acceptable, so why should we pressurise them into immunising if the only others at risk are those who accept that risk (rather than 'innocent parties')?


EDIT: Cross-posted with the posts above, which have answered my question!!

Sorry to jump in uninvited, but the nurse/mom in me was dying to reply.

That is an excellent point, except for one thing. There are many people that can't be vaccinated for other health reasons and some vaccines are not safe to be given to infants before they reach a certain age. The heard immunity is a great way of thinking about it, the weakest/compromised are best protected when the "heard" is working together. If the heard is mostly vaccinated those at risk will have a far lower chance of exposure.

That all being said, I do think that some vaccines are being pushed to hard these days.

 

[Gussie]

@OoohShiny

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I have to put my two cents in since this is a subject I feel strongly about.

If they want to start fining those who choose (for religious or personal beliefs) not to vaccinate then they will need to repeal the law in the U.S. that grants immunity to vaccine manufacturers. Fair is fair, if the vaccines are as safe as they claim then they need to put their money where their mouth is.

I also fine the thread title offensive, people who choose not to vaccinate do not need to be fixed. What needs to be fixed is the accountability and the medical community needs to recognize that there are some people due to mitochondrial or gene mutation issues that are suceptible to injury from vaccines. As it stands right now there are no tests given to determine if there is an underlying problem PRIOR to vaccination and that is criminal. So they know that there are factors that can make vaccination an extremely risky medical procedure yet they don't take the proactive steps that could possibly save someone from having an adverse outcome.

For the record, I vaccinated my first son up to the MMR, my second son has only had a vitamin K shot. Think less of me if you want, slap a label on me as a parent, pass the legislation to fine me if you wish but you are wrong to put the blame on the parents. Fix the real problem which starts with the pharmaceutical companies, then get the laws protecting them out of the picture and while you're at it give the doctors in medical school an education that is unbiased and not paid for by the same companies making the vaccines.

Let's get the playing field leveled before we start the game.

 

[t-c]

I have to put my two cents in since this is a subject I feel strongly about.

If they want to start fining those who choose (for religious or personal beliefs) not to vaccinate then they will need to repeal the law in the U.S. that grants immunity to vaccine manufacturers. Fair is fair, if the vaccines are as safe as they claim then they need to put their money where their mouth is.

I also fine the thread title offensive, people who choose not to vaccinate do not need to be fixed. What needs to be fixed is the accountability and the medical community needs to recognize that there are some people due to mitochondrial or gene mutation issues that are suceptible to injury from vaccines. As it stands right now there are no tests given to determine if there is an underlying problem PRIOR to vaccination and that is criminal. So they know that there are factors that can make vaccination an extremely risky medical procedure yet they don't take the proactive steps that could possibly save someone from having an adverse outcome.

For the record, I vaccinated my first son up to the MMR, my second son has only had a vitamin K shot. Think less of me if you want, slap a label on me as a parent, pass the legislation to fine me if you wish but you are wrong to put the blame on the parents. Fix the real problem which starts with the pharmaceutical companies, then get the laws protecting them out of the picture and while you're at it give the doctors in medical school an education that is unbiased and not paid for by the same companies making the vaccines.

Let's get the playing field leveled before we start the game.

Isn't there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program that established a Special Master (i.e. Vaccine Court) to preside over vaccine injury claims? And it seems that one can file a civil suit against the manufacturers if the Vaccine Court denies the claims. Are you asking for more than that?

What "mitochondrial or gene mutation issues [make one] suceptible (sic) to injury from vaccines"? If these are known, aren't there sequencing / hybridization / etc services that one can get to determine if these mutations are present in a child -- similar to BRCA or snp tests? Seems to me a great business to get in on as all parents will want this done for their kid before they go through the vaccination series.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Isn't there a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program that established a Special Master (i.e. Vaccine Court) to preside over vaccine injury claims? And it seems that one can file a civil suit against the manufacturers if the Vaccine Court denies the claims. Are you asking for more than that?

What "mitochondrial or gene mutation issues [make one] suceptible (sic) to injury from vaccines"? If these are known, aren't there sequencing / hybridization / etc services that one can get to determine if these mutations are present in a child -- similar to BRCA or snp tests? Seems to me a great business to get in on as all parents will want this done for their kid before they go through the vaccination series.

There is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program which is funded by an excise tax on each dose of vaccine recommended to children and pregnant women. So this is paid out of the pockets of the public and not from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. There are specific requirements that must be met to have a claim considered and it can be notoriously difficult to file a claim since doctors do not always document an adverse reaction. In addition there is a window of three years to file a claim for an injury and two years for an injury resulting in death under the NVICP. I have read conflicting information about whether a civil suit can be filed against a vaccine manufacturer.

Hannah Poling is the most well known case I know of that demonstrates the need to identify suceptible individuals prior to vaccination. The following article talks about her case and in it this excerpt:

"In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court."

The full article if anyone wants to read it:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

So even after this case they still aren't testing before vaccination, why? When I vaccinated my first son I had no idea to question if my son shouldn't be receiving some or all of the recommended vaccines because of any underlying issues. This needs to be done in the hospital as a routine procedure, no different than giving the Hep B and vitamin K shots. The parents need to be sat down and presented the information before a vaccine is even mentioned. They say in the article it was an unknown mitochondrial disorder, well that was in 2010, are we any closer to knowing what that disorder was to maybe save another child from injury?


It would also be prudent IMO to look into the MTHFR mutation to see if those individuals should also be advised against vaccination. I'm sure there may be other mutations or conditions that could cause an adverse reaction I'm only citing MTHFR because I'm most familiar with it.

For clarification I am not in any way saying or even insinuating that vaccines cause autism, there is are many injuries that can result such as asthma, allergies, sensory disorder that are chronic lifelong ailments that vaccines can contribute to that need to be looked at as possible adverse reactions and not just accepted as the new normal.

 

[Austina]

I had my son vaccinated, due to extreme pressure from the paediatrician, and whilst I'm not opposed to vaccines per se, I am against the amount of vaccines they give children in one go, and the close intervals at which they're given.

When my son was born, first vaccines were given at 6-9 weeks, then 6-9 months. MMR was given just before they started school, so around 4 years old.

I have no medical/scientific background, but I'm sceptical that there's no link between vaccinations and autism. I don't know of anyone in my age group, or my DH's, or our parents age group, who are/were autistic. I also don't know anyone in DS's age group either. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I don't know of any. I do know of several younger friends with autistic children, vaccinated since the interval of vaccinations was shortened. .

 

[lyra]

This argument is always pointless here.

I actually had measles as a kid. It was the most miserable memory I have from childhood. It changed me. I was 7 or 8 at the time. It affected my brain, and threw me into a childhood depression actually. I'll never forget what it was like, on top of the physical side, which was awful as well.

You'd think though, that it would have given me immunity, right? Well, I thought so anyway. Found out with my first pregnancy that it didn't, and they couldn't vaccinate me at that time. Might be different now, but I faced the pregnancy at risk. I did get vaccinated afterwards.

Now I'm on 2 immuno-suppressing meds for the rest of my life. So I'm at risk for everything. I have to avoid people. If I get sick, it's a major hospital visit thing. So I'm one of the people affected in several ways. You don't want your kids to get these diseases. Research, but don't just believe that you are doing the best thing by not vaccinating, because you're not. Unless there is a specific allergy or known issue, what they are facing can be life altering, and you will be responsible. I don't get why so many things seem to be going backwards as I age instead of forwards. By all means ask for accountability, and the best possible vaccines. JMO.

 

[lovedogs]

I have no medical/scientific background, but I'm sceptical that there's no link between vaccinations and autism. I don't know of anyone in my age group, or my DH's, or our parents age group, who are/were autistic. I also don't know anyone in DS's age group either. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I don't know of any. I do know of several younger friends with autistic children, vaccinated since the interval of vaccinations was shortened. .

I suggest you read up on this, because it has been proven over and over again that there is ZERO link between vaccinations and autism. The reason you don't know anyone in older generations diagnosed with ASD is for a variety of reasons--one of which being that there wasn't a good understanding of it until quite recently.

I understand the intuitive appeal of thinking that vaccinations and autism are connected, but the facts say they aren't.

 

[doberman]

I am all for freedom of choice in health matters but...BIG BUT, when my son was immunosuppressed from chemo and couldn't be vaccinated, I totally steered him clear of kids whose parents were antivax. In fact they made me angry. It is called herd immunity for a reason.

It's people like this that make me want to thin the herd.

 

[Arkteia]

There is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program which is funded by an excise tax on each dose of vaccine recommended to children and pregnant women. So this is paid out of the pockets of the public and not from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. There are specific requirements that must be met to have a claim considered and it can be notoriously difficult to file a claim since doctors do not always document an adverse reaction. In addition there is a window of three years to file a claim for an injury and two years for an injury resulting in death under the NVICP. I have read conflicting information about whether a civil suit can be filed against a vaccine manufacturer.

Hannah Poling is the most well known case I know of that demonstrates the need to identify suceptible individuals prior to vaccination. The following article talks about her case and in it this excerpt:

"In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court."

The full article if anyone wants to read it:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

So even after this case they still aren't testing before vaccination, why? When I vaccinated my first son I had no idea to question if my son shouldn't be receiving some or all of the recommended vaccines because of any underlying issues. This needs to be done in the hospital as a routine procedure, no different than giving the Hep B and vitamin K shots. The parents need to be sat down and presented the information before a vaccine is even mentioned. They say in the article it was an unknown mitochondrial disorder, well that was in 2010, are we any closer to knowing what that disorder was to maybe save another child from injury?


It would also be prudent IMO to look into the MTHFR mutation to see if those individuals should also be advised against vaccination. I'm sure there may be other mutations or conditions that could cause an adverse reaction I'm only citing MTHFR because I'm most familiar with it.

For clarification I am not in any way saying or even insinuating that vaccines cause autism, there is are many injuries that can result such as asthma, allergies, sensory disorder that are chronic lifelong ailments that vaccines can contribute to that need to be looked at as possible adverse reactions and not just accepted as the new normal.

In cases like this, one wonders what real measles, mumps or rubella infection would do to a person with underlying mitochondrial disorder. I know that measles vaccine can cause a very rare complication, sibacute sclerosing panencephalitis, but the virus itself does it, too, only more frequently!

 

[Arkteia]

I suggest you read up on this, because it has been proven over and over again that there is ZERO link between vaccinations and autism. The reason you don't know anyone in older generations diagnosed with ASD is for a variety of reasons--one of which being that there wasn't a good understanding of it until quite recently.

I understand the intuitive appeal of thinking that vaccinations and autism are connected, but the facts say they aren't.

I think they may be intuitively connected because of the age when people get vaccinated, and when the symptoms of autism become apparent. So the parents say, "my kid was developing normally, until he got that shot". It is a random coincidence which looks like a link. I think that as we learn more about autism, the timing can be explained. Also, parents are clearly unwilling to look at themselves and acknowledge, "it is me. My genes. Or my husband's genes".

 

[Arkteia]

This argument is always pointless here.

I actually had measles as a kid. It was the most miserable memory I have from childhood. It changed me. I was 7 or 8 at the time. It affected my brain, and threw me into a childhood depression actually. I'll never forget what it was like, on top of the physical side, which was awful as well.

You'd think though, that it would have given me immunity, right? Well, I thought so anyway. Found out with my first pregnancy that it didn't, and they couldn't vaccinate me at that time. Might be different now, but I faced the pregnancy at risk. I did get vaccinated afterwards.

Now I'm on 2 immuno-suppressing meds for the rest of my life. So I'm at risk for everything. I have to avoid people. If I get sick, it's a major hospital visit thing. So I'm one of the people affected in several ways. You don't want your kids to get these diseases. Research, but don't just believe that you are doing the best thing by not vaccinating, because you're not. Unless there is a specific allergy or known issue, what they are facing can be life altering, and you will be responsible. I don't get why so many things seem to be going backwards as I age instead of forwards. By all means ask for accountability, and the best possible vaccines. JMO.

I am sorry, Lyra. I am undergoing routine physical, and I plan to get shingles shot - it is earlier than indicated, but I had chickenpox as a child, and mom had shingles once. At least this could reduce the risk for people like you.

 

[Arkteia]

I had my son vaccinated, due to extreme pressure from the paediatrician, and whilst I'm not opposed to vaccines per se, I am against the amount of vaccines they give children in one go, and the close intervals at which they're given.

When my son was born, first vaccines were given at 6-9 weeks, then 6-9 months. MMR was given just before they started school, so around 4 years old.

I have no medical/scientific background, but I'm sceptical that there's no link between vaccinations and autism. I don't know of anyone in my age group, or my DH's, or our parents age group, who are/were autistic. I also don't know anyone in DS's age group either. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I don't know of any. I do know of several younger friends with autistic children, vaccinated since the interval of vaccinations was shortened. .

Oh, let me ask one question. What would be the future for a person with clinical symptoms of autism in the 50-es or 60-es? They 'd be kicked out of the army/navy because of "weird affect", and they would not be accepted to work cash register because of poor eye contact. Likely, they would be diagnosed with schizophrenia or at least schizoid personality disorder. They would live with their parents. Their chance of getting married and leaving posterity would be low. They would still exist, but you would not see them. Perhaps many were confined to state mental hospitals.

Today, we have the whole IT world. We have the ability to screen for dyslexia. We screen for auditory processing disorder. We introduce early intervention. It probably improves the outcome. And many odd, but very smart people, especially the ones obsessed with computer games, end up in IT world. Their earning potential is good. They do get married. And they have kids.

 

[Arkteia]

There is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program which is funded by an excise tax on each dose of vaccine recommended to children and pregnant women. So this is paid out of the pockets of the public and not from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. There are specific requirements that must be met to have a claim considered and it can be notoriously difficult to file a claim since doctors do not always document an adverse reaction. In addition there is a window of three years to file a claim for an injury and two years for an injury resulting in death under the NVICP. I have read conflicting information about whether a civil suit can be filed against a vaccine manufacturer.

Hannah Poling is the most well known case I know of that demonstrates the need to identify suceptible individuals prior to vaccination. The following article talks about her case and in it this excerpt:

"In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court."

The full article if anyone wants to read it:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

So even after this case they still aren't testing before vaccination, why? When I vaccinated my first son I had no idea to question if my son shouldn't be receiving some or all of the recommended vaccines because of any underlying issues. This needs to be done in the hospital as a routine procedure, no different than giving the Hep B and vitamin K shots. The parents need to be sat down and presented the information before a vaccine is even mentioned. They say in the article it was an unknown mitochondrial disorder, well that was in 2010, are we any closer to knowing what that disorder was to maybe save another child from injury?


It would also be prudent IMO to look into the MTHFR mutation to see if those individuals should also be advised against vaccination. I'm sure there may be other mutations or conditions that could cause an adverse reaction I'm only citing MTHFR because I'm most familiar with it.

For clarification I am not in any way saying or even insinuating that vaccines cause autism, there is are many injuries that can result such as asthma, allergies, sensory disorder that are chronic lifelong ailments that vaccines can contribute to that need to be looked at as possible adverse reactions and not just accepted as the new normal.

One problem is increased risk of childhood infections for your own kid.

We forgot how the world used to be before the vaccination. One of my great-grandmothers had 9 kids. 5 survived. Another one had 13. 7 survived.

I have a photo from husband's archive. His paternal grandparents at the coffin of my FIL's sister, who succumbed to childhood infection. Their faces. My FIL grew up as the only child.

Antibiotics and vaccination, these two "bad" things, dramatically reduced childhood mortality in the first world. And what about smallpox that has been eradicated, 200 years after vaccination was started? Just Google the history of smallpox, read, the numbers, and then click on the photos. It should be enough.

My biggest problem with anti-vaxxers is that they try to draw other people in their belief system.

And here is the result:

https://www.voanews.com/a/measles-hit-minnesota-somalis-amid-low-vaccination-rates/3845863.html

For some reason, Somalis in MN have higher risk of autism (perhaps it has to do with closed community and marrying within own community? Just my idea). But the push not to vaccinate was so strong, Wakefield traveled to lecture them. Now when it ended up with several kids with measles in the ICU, the local imams became more proactive, pushing people to vaccinate their kids.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Arkteia, I appreciate all of your points I really do but there is still the issue of the vaccines not being safe for ALL children as they claim. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that there are vulnerable children but we don't know until after they are vaccinated who they are. Granted it might be a very small number but that statistic doesn't really matter then when it's your kid you know?

In my case I had all the doctors and nurses very enthusiastic to give my kid the shots but when he had an apparently rare incidence of breakthrough measles and then was later found to have delays and needed therapy for his sensory disorder, those people weren't writing the checks for the therapists and driving him to his appointments weekly. You have a subset of parents out there who don't qualify for reimbursement under the vaccine fund but have to pay the price for those shots for a very long time and in some cases for life.

He had the high pitched cry and fever right after one of his shots but I didn't know that wasn't normal and most parents like me don't think to question. I question everything now.

 

[Gussie]

I think it all comes down to individuals weighing the risk of vaccinating vs. not. I bend to the side of vaccines because I believe that the result has a positive impact on eradicating disease both for the individual and society as a whole. However I also see that parents base their beliefs on what they see in their own children.

This is a very emotional topic for a lot of people who have children that have had adverse reactions that they attribute to vaccines. In fact the last time I ventured into a debate about vaccines some lunatic on Facebook told me that my son deserved to get leukemia because I let a nurse poke him with poison! Wow, I really appreciate a level headed conversation that ps offers!

@StephanieLynn, I am very sorry for you and your son. I hope that he is doing better and that the effects are not long term.

@Arkteia, I completely agree that the younger generations have not witnessed the devastating effects of diseases that are now preventable due to vaccines.

 

[Arkteia]

Arkteia, I appreciate all of your points I really do but there is still the issue of the vaccines not being safe for ALL children as they claim. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that there are vulnerable children but we don't know until after they are vaccinated who they are. Granted it might be a very small number but that statistic doesn't really matter then when it's your kid you know?

In my case I had all the doctors and nurses very enthusiastic to give my kid the shots but when he had an apparently rare incidence of breakthrough measles and then was later found to have delays and needed therapy for his sensory disorder, those people weren't writing the checks for the therapists and driving him to his appointments weekly. You have a subset of parents out there who don't qualify for reimbursement under the vaccine fund but have to pay the price for those shots for a very long time and in some cases for life.

He had the high pitched cry and fever right after one of his shots but I didn't know that wasn't normal and most parents like me don't think to question. I question everything now.

StephanieLynn, I am very sorry for what you had to get through with your kid. I had breakthrough measles, too, but luckily, in my country the vaccine was given at 7 or 8, and by that time, I had enough traits that prompted my parents to send me to school one year earlier, and they would have done it two years earlier had the school agreed. Many years later, I diagnosed myself with ADHD, and when I asked my dad who in the family could have it, he, without missing a beat, said, "of course, myself. And my dad".

If you do a very good genealogy work, like I did, you might see the traits, and even the sides that the symptoms in your kids are coming from. My younger kid has all things in the world, and I clearly can see my MIL and my dad in him.

 

[lyra]

I am sorry, Lyra. I am undergoing routine physical, and I plan to get shingles shot - it is earlier than indicated, but I had chickenpox as a child, and mom had shingles once. At least this could reduce the risk for people like you.

Arkteia, I can't get the shingles vaccine because it is a live virus and I'm on immuno-suppressant drugs. I worry about that one. I will get the pneumonia vaccine again this year. I need all the help I can get.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

StephanieLynn, I am very sorry for what you had to get through with your kid. I had breakthrough measles, too, but luckily, in my country the vaccine was given at 7 or 8, and by that time, I had enough traits that prompted my parents to send me to school one year earlier, and they would have done it two years earlier had the school agreed. Many years later, I diagnosed myself with ADHD, and when I asked my dad who in the family could have it, he, without missing a beat, said, "of course, myself. And my dad".

If you do a very good genealogy work, like I did, you might see the traits, and even the sides that the symptoms in your kids are coming from. My younger kid has all things in the world, and I clearly can see my MIL and my dad in him.

Thanks Arkteia and ceg, he is a great kid and he does struggle a bit, his coordination will always be a struggle and his attention is all over the place but he can keep pace at school and most importantly he has a good heart.

It is interesting how other countries give the shots on a different schedule. I wish the U.S. would at the very least give the MMR at a later age then it would also put it farther apart from when the autism and other related conditions are usually diagnosed. Maybe that would be more reassuring for parents.

No doubt that there is a genetic link, I'm sure he gets some of this from my husband as he has OCD. I don't know how appropriate it is to say I'm glad you recognized ADHD in yourself, but I am glad because then you can find appropriate help which is so important.

 

[Arkteia]

Arkteia, I can't get the shingles vaccine because it is a live virus and I'm on immuno-suppressant drugs. I worry about that one. I will get the pneumonia vaccine again this year. I need all the help I can get.

Dear Lyra,

Best of luck to you. Tell us, please, everyone who is not in that boat (yet!), what do we need to do to help out people like you. I have noticed elderly people from China wearing masks during epidemics of flu. Maybe it is a good idea. Something else that we all are missing and that could help people in your boat? Besides vaccinating our kids and ourselves, of course.

 

[Arkteia]

Thanks Arkteia and ceg, he is a great kid and he does struggle a bit, his coordination will always be a struggle and his attention is all over the place but he can keep pace at school and most importantly he has a good heart.

It is interesting how other countries give the shots on a different schedule. I wish the U.S. would at the very least give the MMR at a later age then it would also put it farther apart from when the autism and other related conditions are usually diagnosed. Maybe that would be more reassuring for parents.

No doubt that there is a genetic link, I'm sure he gets some of this from my husband as he has OCD. I don't know how appropriate it is to say I'm glad you recognized ADHD in yourself, but I am glad because then you can find appropriate help which is so important.

I am glad that your kid has a good heart. My younger one, surprisingly, is very social. He comes from two different gene pools, one, not too social but super successful (my dad's side), and one which is super social (my mom's side). Approximately the same in my husband's family. Long story short, he suffers academically, and badly, and it perplexes us, as no one in the family had such issues. But he is surprisingly interested in people and remembers their names and details of their lives. So having a good heart helps.

For ADD, I did not "recognize" it, rather my older kid once asked me if I thought he had it. And it was as if a lightbulb exploded. I realized that he had it, and that i had it, and he got it from me (my husband's contribution - the hyperactivity - I saw much later).

As to vaccination - you are the client. No one can prevent you from asking them to spread the vaccinations or change the calendar.

After I got my measles (it was somehow explained by the vaccine, but I think that the vaccine helped, as I got a very light form), they never gave me the second dose. Consequently, here in the US, it was found that i had no immunity towards rubella. (A very scary thing, since I already had one kid. I was lucky that in the SU herd immunity was strong. So I got separate rubella vaccine.)

I am positive that the pediatricians would rather be flexible with vaccination calendar than deal with totally unvaccinated kids.

P.S. About separate measles, mumps and rubella vaccines. Merck produced them till 2009. Stopped - I am sure the decision was both political and cost-containing. I am sure it was wrong, as instead of kids not vaccinated for measles we are now dealing with kids having no immunity for all three infections. I do hope that Merck will revive its three separate vaccines. Of the three infections, measles is probably the worst for children (half of a Native American tribe here once died from it), but congenital rubella syndrome is horrible.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Isn't it interesting that so many boys have some sort of issue, not saying it's related to the topic here but so many have some sort of learning disability or sensory or related disorder.

I know we could space them out or whatnot but in our case my older son got sick literally after every shot even when I started selecting only certain ones. The last one he received he was so sick the next day he couldn't go to school, not even exaggerating. Since we stopped vaccinating him he has missed four days of school in five years. There is something in these vaccines he just can't tolerate. As a result of what we went through with him early on we are not vaccinating my three year old. Our pediatrician will do the full schedule or selectively vaccinate or not at all but she is one of the very few in our state that will do that.

However this is just us and our experience I don't push our decision on others, I understand that people feel strongly in favor and I totally understand that as well.

 

[doberman]

There is no question that there has been a sizeable and alarming increase in cases of autism and allergies in children. Vaccines, in my opinion have absolutely nothing to do with this, they're just something administered at the age where the condition manifests itself. I do feel that the cause will be determined years from now, and I suspect that plastics will be implicated.

Just my thoughts.

 

[kenny]

There is no question that there has been a sizeable and alarming increase in cases of autism and allergies in children. Vaccines, in my opinion have absolutely nothing to do with this, they're just something administered at the age where the condition manifests itself. I do feel that the cause will be determined years from now, and I suspect that plastics will be implicated. ...

+1
That would not surprise me.
It's astonishing how much plastic we and our food is increasingly surrounded with.
As it was with tobacco, considering the zillions of dollars plastic and packaging companies have to lose it'll be a hell of a fight over scientific/medical data and exposure of hush money to politicians and lobbyists before anything changes.

 

[GliderPoss]

This is an interesting topic, obviously very emotional one too as it involves children. The simple reason vaccines are so important is for "overall herd protection". I highly recommend everyone watch this informative documentary which helps explain why people often jump to incorrect conclusions about autism & vaccines:
http://www.sbs.com.au/shows/jabbed Everyone is free to educate themselves on vaccination, I just encourage actual professional medical research to be part of that education....not just random anecdotal Google stories...