Update on world progress fixing anti-vax parents

[t-c]

Arkteia, I appreciate all of your points I really do but there is still the issue of the vaccines not being safe for ALL children as they claim. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that there are vulnerable children but we don't know until after they are vaccinated who they are. Granted it might be a very small number but that statistic doesn't really matter then when it's your kid you know?

Nothing will be safe for all and as a scientist with experience in drug development, I highly doubt that any drug company would claim that -- the FDA wouldn't let them, for one thing. There are some drugs/vaccines with long history and widely administered that may be considered safe, but if you look, they are never declared safe for all.

Some physicians may be a bit looser with their language, but what would you have done with the statistics? If, before your child had a bad reaction, the doctor said there is a 1 in 1,000,000 chance your child would have a bad reaction, how would you have interpreted that and how would you having that information change your decision, if it would change your decision? I work with statistics and it's still difficult to put it in the context of real life (i.e. what do the numbers really mean for me?).

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Nothing will be safe for all and as a scientist with experience in drug development, I highly doubt that any drug company would claim that -- the FDA wouldn't let them, for one thing. There are some drugs/vaccines with long history and widely administered that may be considered safe, but if you look, they are never declared safe for all.

Some physicians may be a bit looser with their language, but what would you have done with the statistics? If, before your child had a bad reaction, the doctor said there is a 1 in 1,000,000 chance your child would have a bad reaction, how would you have interpreted that and how would you having that information change your decision, if it would change your decision? I work with statistics and it's still difficult to put it in the context of real life (i.e. what do the numbers really mean for me?).

I hear you, I still would have gone ahead with it because in reality most children can handle the shots. Really I would have had no reason not to at that point.

 

[OoohShiny]

I hear you, I still would have gone ahead with it because in reality most children can handle the shots. Really I would have had no reason not to at that point.

I think the main thing for me is that all these combined shots must put quite a strain on the immune system - personally I'd prefer single shots spaced out over the course of, say, a few months, to give the body time to deal with each thing individually.

I know that ties back to the argument over MMR potentially causing autism (or not), but personally speaking, why not do single shots if one is in the financial position to be able to afford them?

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I think the main thing for me is that all these combined shots must put quite a strain on the immune system - personally I'd prefer single shots spaced out over the course of, say, a few months, to give the body time to deal with each thing individually.

I know that ties back to the argument over MMR potentially causing autism (or not), but personally speaking, why not do single shots if one is in the financial position to be able to afford them?

It makes so much sense to do single shots except you can't do single shots for the MMR as it is now only available as a combination (from my experience) the other combo shots I don't know if you can get them individual or not. Doctors from what I understand do not always embrace this because multiple appointments are needed making it more likely a patient will fall behind and some are real sticklers about following the exact schedule recommmended by the CDC. At least if they are given one at a time you will know if there is a problem which shot could be the culprit.

 

[lyra]

Dear Lyra,

Best of luck to you. Tell us, please, everyone who is not in that boat (yet!), what do we need to do to help out people like you. I have noticed elderly people from China wearing masks during epidemics of flu. Maybe it is a good idea. Something else that we all are missing and that could help people in your boat? Besides vaccinating our kids and ourselves, of course.

Thanks Arkteia. Get vaccinated is number one! Haha. People like me have to be pro-active about what WE do, to minimize risks. I don't go out in crowds. I don't go to places where there are sick people, like the walk-in clinic. I wash my hands religiously, as soon as I come home from being out. I change my clothes immediately too. I have a going out wardrobe, and a staying home wardrobe. I make a conscious effort not to touch my face while out. My family members get vaccinated and also avoid sick people. This is pretty hard for DH, as he travels all over the world, so that's a big risk. Basically, I mostly live like a hermit, and that's fine. I don't get sick very often, so I must be doing it mostly right. I don't shake hands or hug people either, but that's partly a personal space issue. I flee any coughing individuals immediately. I'm just hyper aware.

 

[chemgirl]

I had my son vaccinated, due to extreme pressure from the paediatrician, and whilst I'm not opposed to vaccines per se, I am against the amount of vaccines they give children in one go, and the close intervals at which they're given.

When my son was born, first vaccines were given at 6-9 weeks, then 6-9 months. MMR was given just before they started school, so around 4 years old.

I have no medical/scientific background, but I'm sceptical that there's no link between vaccinations and autism. I don't know of anyone in my age group, or my DH's, or our parents age group, who are/were autistic. I also don't know anyone in DS's age group either. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I don't know of any. I do know of several younger friends with autistic children, vaccinated since the interval of vaccinations was shortened. .

Not to be argumentative, but I do think this observation is partially due to a shift in awareness. I am in my mid 30's and several people in my peer group are only now being diagnosed with autism. These are highly functioning people in STEM careers. Most have graduate degrees. I think kids with autism weren't identified as long as they were doing well academically. Not the case anymore.

Again not trying to start an argument, just another observation about instances of autism in the past.

 

[ksinger]

Not to be argumentative, but I do think this observation is partially due to a shift in awareness. I am in my mid 30's and several people in my peer group are only now being diagnosed with autism. These are highly functioning people in STEM careers. Most have graduate degrees. I think kids with autism weren't identified as long as they were doing well academically. Not the case anymore.

Again not trying to start an argument, just another observation about instances of autism in the past.

Also not to be argumentative, but how can one tease apart how much of that is increased awareness, and how much is diagnostic inflation driven by things like broader diagnostic criteria, increased patient demands for labels, and the tight coupling of access to services with psychiatric diagnoses?

 

[chemgirl]

Also not to be argumentative, but how can one tease apart how much of that is increased awareness, and how much is diagnostic inflation driven by things like broader diagnostic criteria, increased patient demands for labels, and the tight coupling of access to services with psychiatric diagnoses?

I can't! Obviously there are multiple factors at work.

 

[luv2sparkle]

First of all let me say that all of my children were vaccinated. The number of vaccines given to children is now greatly increased. I do, however, have a problem with the government telling me that I have no choice in regards to any decision I would make regarding my parenting. The FDA approves these or any drugs and they are not out to protect the people, but the drug companies. I do not trust them. There have been far too many drugs that have come out that they approved and later found to present serious side effects sometimes with disastrous results as with the drug DES that was given to pregnant women for nausea. It was later found to cause cancer in the female children of those patients. When vaccinations were given at the levels during the 80's when my kids were vaccinated, there weren't outbreaks of these diseases. Parents might feel more encouraged to give their children vaccines if they were reverted to these levels. We could eliminated the threat of outbreaks without taking away the parents rights in deciding what is best for their own children. I know, a lot of people will say that the rights of others is greater than the rights of the individual parents but I don't agree.

 

[Arkteia]

I sometimes wonder... remember the recent Ebola scare? At that time, we were reading that the vaccine would be available only in 3 years. And feeling very scared, because there were deaths in Europe, and one here, in the US.

I wonder, if there is another epidemic of Ebola in Africa, and there is a vaccine, would people who are so adamantly protesting against current vaccinations also protest, not vaccinate themselves or their kids? Or rational thinking would still prevail?

Because in the middle of the 20th century, polio was a very, very serious illness. Remember the wheelchairs, the "iron lungs", the need to wear negative-pressure jackets. "In those with muscle weakness about 2 to 5 percent of children and 15 to 30 percent of adults die". And there is no cure - but we have vaccinations.

Just to provide a different view of the problem.

 

[Arkteia]

Thanks Arkteia. Get vaccinated is number one! Haha. People like me have to be pro-active about what WE do, to minimize risks. I don't go out in crowds. I don't go to places where there are sick people, like the walk-in clinic. I wash my hands religiously, as soon as I come home from being out. I change my clothes immediately too. I have a going out wardrobe, and a staying home wardrobe. I make a conscious effort not to touch my face while out. My family members get vaccinated and also avoid sick people. This is pretty hard for DH, as he travels all over the world, so that's a big risk. Basically, I mostly live like a hermit, and that's fine. I don't get sick very often, so I must be doing it mostly right. I don't shake hands or hug people either, but that's partly a personal space issue. I flee any coughing individuals immediately. I'm just hyper aware.

Thank you, Lyra. And stay healthy!