Update at PrecisionGem

[Lady_Disdain]

Gene has a new parcel of Paraiba rough - I hope they heat up fine. With Gene''s cutting, they will look wonderful.

 

[T L]

It will be interesting to see how well they heat, and to what colors.

 

[sleepyspinel]

If you go on his blog area you can see a nice trillion he cut... I thought the before looked quite nice and the after is even better... has a added brightness to it

 

[hoofbeats95]

Pardon my dumb question but do you want these stones heated? I didn''t really see why he heated the one in his blog that was mentioned above. But I thought everyone wanted non-heat treated stone. Enlighten me please

 

[T L]

Date: 6/6/2009 8:56:39 PM
Author: hoofbeats95
Pardon my dumb question but do you want these stones heated? I didn''t really see why he heated the one in his blog that was mentioned above. But I thought everyone wanted non-heat treated stone. Enlighten me please

Virtually all copper bearing stones on the market today are heated. It is necessary to bring out the neon color that everyone desires. This is similar to tanzanite that comes out of the stone mostly brown and green. It is heated to get the color everyone wants. Heating these stones improves the value acutally. Non-heated copper bearing tourmalines in a super neon color are virtually non-existant, and if you do find them, they very valuable.

 

[hoofbeats95]

TL - that makes sense but I''ve read of times when people want to make sure a stone is not heated. So what prompts that? For which types of stones/scenarios is heating bad?

 

[icekid]

Date: 6/6/2009 9:19:45 PM
Author: hoofbeats95
TL - that makes sense but I''ve read of times when people want to make sure a stone is not heated. So what prompts that? For which types of stones/scenarios is heating bad?

Heating is not BAD. It''s just that it is more rare for a stone (sapphires, for example) to come out of the ground looking "perfect." So having a stone that is absolutely untreated is a trait that some people value.

Because these unheated stones are more rare, they command greater prices. Therefore someone might want to confirm that their stone is unheated if they are paying for an expensive stone that is said to be untreated.

Beryllium is a whole different story...

 

[T L]

Date: 6/6/2009 9:19:45 PM
Author: hoofbeats95
TL - that makes sense but I've read of times when people want to make sure a stone is not heated. So what prompts that? For which types of stones/scenarios is heating bad?

Gentle heat is generally an accepted practice in the trade. Most sapphires would be scrap if they weren't heated. It increases the value on some stones that normally might not be marketable otherwise. However, there are other kinds of treatments that involve heating that are unscrupulous, like beryllium diffusion, which is essentially a dyed stone.

However, if all variables are equal, carat weight, color, etc. . . then the unheated stone will be more valuable than the stone that has been treated with gentle heat. The first Brazilian paraibas found were unheated and super neon. In the colored gem world (aside from colored diamonds), their rarity and valuae is only perhaps overtaken by fine large untreated Mogok rubies, and even then I wonder. For example, a slightly included top windex blue Brazilian heated Paraiba might go for $20,000/ct. Imagine if that were a large unheated stone!!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

The one he posted from the new parcel is purtttyyy...if only it was square..

 

[Linda W]

Date: 6/6/2009 10:36:14 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
The one he posted from the new parcel is purtttyyy...if only it was square..

I like that one too, and I agree. Wish it were square.

 

[T L]

Date: 6/6/2009 10:36:14 PM
Author: MakingTheGrade
The one he posted from the new parcel is purtttyyy...if only it was square..

or an 8x8 cushion.

Oh well, can''t have everything!!

 

[Art Nouveau]

TL:

You have posted your paraibas previously, but I can''t remember if you have any Brazilian stones. I have seen paraibas from Brazil, Mozambique and Nigeria. The African stones have much better clarity, are available in bigger sizes and are much cheaper. However, as far as the ''neon'' quality goes, there is nothing like a true Brazilian paraiba. The top quality Brazilian stones are way too expensive, but do you have any idea what a Brazilian super neon stone, but with eye visible inclusions go for? Does it make a big difference in price whether it''s heated or unheated in the lower clarity stones? Just wondering, if you have a choice between an eye clean, not too saturated and not too neon Mozambique stone, or a smaller, included, but saturated and super neon Brazilian stone, what would you pick?

AN

 

[T L]

Date: 6/7/2009 1:32:19 AM
Author: Art Nouveau
TL:

You have posted your paraibas previously, but I can't remember if you have any Brazilian stones. I have seen paraibas from Brazil, Mozambique and Nigeria. The African stones have much better clarity, are available in bigger sizes and are much cheaper. However, as far as the 'neon' quality goes, there is nothing like a true Brazilian paraiba. The top quality Brazilian stones are way too expensive, but do you have any idea what a Brazilian super neon stone, but with eye visible inclusions go for? Does it make a big difference in price whether it's heated or unheated in the lower clarity stones? Just wondering, if you have a choice between an eye clean, not too saturated and not too neon Mozambique stone, or a smaller, included, but saturated and super neon Brazilian stone, what would you pick?

AN

AN,
You are absolutely correct, the African stones tend to be larger and cleaner, but are not as neon as the Brazilian find, in particular, the original strike. I have seen some quotes, and the super neon Brazilian material in sizes above one carat jump astronomically in price, especially if they're clean, the price per carat is much higher than included. I also think some dealers charge more simply because they're from Brazil, even if similar material can be found in Africa, and that I do not agree with. We're talking anywhere from $10K to $30K/ct here, and it could go up even.

I have not, to my knowledge, have seen an unheated stone for sale. That doesn't mean they do not exist, but if they did, I can't even put a price on those per carat. Richard Wise currently has a less than one carat Brazilian paraiba on his website, and it is slightly included, and I think (don't quote me on this) is around $18K. I'm not sure if it's even top neon (It could be but is difficult to tell from a picture since the neon quality is difficult to photograph).

My stones are all African. Out of them, I would say three are more neon, and the rest have a soft glow like some of the stones that Gene has been putting up on his website lately. I have a small included oval that reminds me of some of the Brazilian paraiba on PI's website, but again, just because a stone is Brazilian, doesn't make it super kryptonite neon (my terminology

). Here's a picture of it, and I think it captures the glow well, it's at the top of this page. It is very included (but it does sparkle - it's still transparent), and it has a brown inclusion, but I love the glow on this stone for what I paid. I bought a lot of stones before the African material jumped a ton in price. I could not get my stones for what I paid for them again. My African paraiba dealer friend can't even get them for me anymore. The Mozambique stones tend to be more neon than the Nigerian material, so even in Africa, you need to distinguish.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-favorite-digicam-photos.115713/page-3

Here's a youtube video with a gem/mineral collector in the trade that has three stones from the original strike that are unheated, and he talks about the rarity. You can see the three stones in this video at 4:34, and they are quite amazing. I can only imagine what they look like in person, and not in a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kiF-fz4XfE

As to your question if I would pick a Mozambique over a Brazilian. If I had the funds, I would pick a top Brazilian. However, some Brazilian stones are comprable to some Mozambique, and with less funds, I would then go for a Mozambique. I would only want a neon stone as well, from either locale, since that's why these stones are famous in the first place

.

HTH, and I assume whatever stone you get, it will be a beauty like the rest of your amazing collection.

 

[Art Nouveau]

Hi TL,

Thanks for your reply. I like the color of your glowy paraiba. I have seen a couple of 3-carat windex blue Brazilian stones and the asking price is ~$30,000 per carat. I have spoken to Richard Wise about his 0.88 carat. I don''t remember the exact price he quoted, but I believe you are in the right ball park. Even top quality Mozambique stones are going for ~$8,000 or more per carat. I am priced out of the market even for top Mozambique stones. The cheaper less saturated Mozambique stones do not have enough neon. The glow is what appeals to me in these stones. Therefore, I am considering if I should go for a more included Brazilian stone to keep the price down, except I don''t really know what the going price is for a stone more included than Richard''s. I don''t like the top windex blue color. I prefer a little more green like a turquoise color, which should also lower the price a bit. Among the stones that I have seen, some have even color and some are dichroic, showing both green and blue at the same time. I wonder if there is a difference in price between the two types of stones and which is considered more desirable. It will be interesting to see what stones Gene will have for sale after he cuts his latest rough.

AN

 

[T L]

AN,
I sent you some info.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I was at my favourite jeweller about a month ago and he showed me three original strike, included paraibas. Price tag for a 1ct: $15k. But, oh, the colour of it!

He also showed me an emerald that he had sourced and set for an arab dignitary: a 5ct, perfect green, softly glowly in white gold with 6 0.8cts step cut diamonds (top grade, of course).

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Hmmm... pretty.

 

[T L]

Date: 6/7/2009 2:07:51 PM
Author: Lady_Disdain
I was at my favourite jeweller about a month ago and he showed me three original strike, included paraibas. Price tag for a 1ct: $15k. But, oh, the colour of it!

He also showed me an emerald that he had sourced and set for an arab dignitary: a 5ct, perfect green, softly glowly in white gold with 6 0.8cts step cut diamonds (top grade, of course).

And you didn''t bring your camera!!

 

[Cind11]

Date: 6/7/2009 11:11:26 AM
Author: Art Nouveau
Hi TL,

Thanks for your reply. I like the color of your glowy paraiba. I have seen a couple of 3-carat windex blue Brazilian stones and the asking price is ~$30,000 per carat. I have spoken to Richard Wise about his 0.88 carat. I don''t remember the exact price he quoted, but I believe you are in the right ball park. Even top quality Mozambique stones are going for ~$8,000 or more per carat. I am priced out of the market even for top Mozambique stones. The cheaper less saturated Mozambique stones do not have enough neon. The glow is what appeals to me in these stones. Therefore, I am considering if I should go for a more included Brazilian stone to keep the price down, except I don''t really know what the going price is for a stone more included than Richard''s. I don''t like the top windex blue color. I prefer a little more green like a turquoise color, which should also lower the price a bit. Among the stones that I have seen, some have even color and some are dichroic, showing both green and blue at the same time. I wonder if there is a difference in price between the two types of stones and which is considered more desirable. It will be interesting to see what stones Gene will have for sale after he cuts his latest rough.

AN

Richard Wise''s Paraiba is $16,000.

 

[icekid]

Date: 6/7/2009 3:47:25 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 6/7/2009 2:07:51 PM

Author: Lady_Disdain

I was at my favourite jeweller about a month ago and he showed me three original strike, included paraibas. Price tag for a 1ct: $15k. But, oh, the colour of it!


He also showed me an emerald that he had sourced and set for an arab dignitary: a 5ct, perfect green, softly glowly in white gold with 6 0.8cts step cut diamonds (top grade, of course).

And you didn''t bring your camera!!

Seriously... I aspire to see one of these babies in person, someday!

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Date: 6/7/2009 7:56:21 PM
Author: icekid

Date: 6/7/2009 3:47:25 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 6/7/2009 2:07:51 PM

Author: Lady_Disdain

I was at my favourite jeweller about a month ago and he showed me three original strike, included paraibas. Price tag for a 1ct: $15k. But, oh, the colour of it!


He also showed me an emerald that he had sourced and set for an arab dignitary: a 5ct, perfect green, softly glowly in white gold with 6 0.8cts step cut diamonds (top grade, of course).

And you didn''t bring your camera!!

Seriously... I aspire to see one of these babies in person, someday!

Since I wasn''t really supposed to be seeing them, it would have been kind of awkward to whip out a camera.

Icekid - if you ever come to Brazil, give me a call and I will take to see some lovely Paraiba in a gemstone museum.

 

[T L]

Date: 6/7/2009 8:20:20 PM
Author: Lady_Disdain


Since I wasn''t really supposed to be seeing them, it would have been kind of awkward to whip out a camera.

Icekid - if you ever come to Brazil, give me a call and I will take to see some lovely Paraiba in a gemstone museum.

LD,
Don''t you know you''re supposed to have your camera on you at all time just in case a photo opp comes along?

 

[icekid]

Date: 6/7/2009 8:20:20 PM
Author: Lady_Disdain

Date: 6/7/2009 7:56:21 PM

Author: icekid

Date: 6/7/2009 3:47:25 PM

Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 6/7/2009 2:07:51 PM


Author: Lady_Disdain


I was at my favourite jeweller about a month ago and he showed me three original strike, included paraibas. Price tag for a 1ct: $15k. But, oh, the colour of it!



He also showed me an emerald that he had sourced and set for an arab dignitary: a 5ct, perfect green, softly glowly in white gold with 6 0.8cts step cut diamonds (top grade, of course).

And you didn''t bring your camera!!

Seriously... I aspire to see one of these babies in person, someday!

Since I wasn''t really supposed to be seeing them, it would have been kind of awkward to whip out a camera.


Icekid - if you ever come to Brazil, give me a call and I will take to see some lovely Paraiba in a gemstone museum.

L_D- Do you live in Brazil?? I promise I will take you up on it eventually

 

[Harriet]

LD, please take me too. Obrigada.

 

[mochi]

Looks like Gene changed his website around...

 

[icekid]

Date: 6/7/2009 9:18:31 PM
Author: Harriet
LD, please take me too. Obrigada.

A colored stoners field trip!!

H- I want to come see you in NY so badly. Hate my job

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 6/7/2009 9:29:54 PM
Author: mochi
Looks like Gene changed his website around...

Thanks, mochi. I just signed up.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/7/2009 9:33:08 PM
Author: icekid
A colored stoners field trip!!

H- I want to come see you in NY so badly. Hate my job

 

[Lady_Disdain]

We can all go on a mine trip: Ouro Preto for imperials, Hematita for alexandrite, Teofilo Otoni for tourmaline, Brasilia for quartz...

 

[Art Nouveau]

LD,

If you don''t mind sharing, where is this museum with the paraibas? I was in So. America for 3 weeks recently and I didn''t see a single paraiba. In fact, I didn''t see any nice color gems at all. Five years ago when I was in Manaus, H. Stern showed me 3 super neon 1 carat size Caribbean sea turquoise color paraibas. The price was $10,000 per carat, which I thought was ridiculous, so I passed. But I have never seen any stones that glow like those since. How included are the stones that you saw for $15,000 per carat?

Harriet: When you were in Tucson last February, did you see any lower clarity paraibas? If so, what were they going for?

Cind11: That sounds about what I was quoted. Harriet has seen this stone in person. Is it worth it?

AN