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msmei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
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Hi All, I'm new to this forum and hope the experts here can help me.

November this year would mark my 20th wedding anniversary, and my husband and I have been shopping around for a diamond solitaire. We have narrowed down to two. I'm very undecided between the 2 as both have their +s and -s.

Diamond A
Carat: 0.61
Colour: D
Clarity: VS2
Cut: 3EX

Diamond B
Carat: 0.73
Colour: E
Clarity: VS2
Cut: VG for cut, EX for polish, EX for symmetry

Both are GIA certified. I've run them both through the HCA and Diamond B comes up 0.6, although spread was listed as VG only. Can't quite remember for Diamond A but I know it was within the Excellent category.

Could anyone help me make a very informed decision? As silly as this may sound, deciding between these two has had me feeling overwhelmed the past few days... :(

Thank you in advance for your input and time
 
Welcome!
I'm not an "expert" but based on what I know these two sound very similar other than the carrot weight... what are your concerns or pro/cons between these two diamonds? Are they the same cut?
 
Can you post links to the stones? Personally I would drop the color to G and go a bit bigger.
 
the only thing between a vg cut and an ex cut is some TINY measurement or angle that shoves it away from ex. like, table is 63 instead of 62, pavilion depth greater than 80 degrees, or crown angle not 35.5 or less, ANYTHING! certificates grade cut based on measurements, girdle width, etc, to show ideal light performance but it is minor. GO FOR THE E VS2!!!!!! Mounted you'll never notice and you won't look back.
 
I would disagree and say that there is usually something wrong with a "very good" cut. But in order to help you, we need all the measurements for each stone. If I had to choose from the information listed only, my choice would be for the excellent cut stone. But there are thousands and thousands of diamonds out there, and I would not limit myself to choosing between those particular two. I'd be looking for an F or G VS2 GIA Excellent cut a little larger than those.
 
I know that sometimes when diamond cutters measure the dimensions of the stones, if they measure one side a certain way and GIA measures it another, GIA rounds these factors up or down by .2 or .5 degrees. Now how can anybody be sure there is something really wrong with a VG cut? We couldn't possibly know without seeing it because sometimes the suppliers simply don't have the patience for GIA to recheck the cut grade. I'd vote yes, lets see more specs before deciding that, but don't you think a .73ct would be nicer for an anniversary than a .60ct?
 
Thank you for taking time out to answer my query. I appreciate all your feedback.

My main peeve is that I don't want to look back and have buyer's remorse when friends (well-meaning as they may be) say 'you should not have compromised on cut. Compromise on the other 'C's yes, but Cut, no.' So that's my main concern :) The price difference between the two is approximately USD300 based on today's currency exchange. Unfortunately I can't place them next to each other to make a visual judgement, as they're from different jewellers.

A little more info on the solitaires:

Diamond A (0.73)
Table: 57%
Crown: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Girdle: thin-slightly thick (I think the extra info they listed was 3% facet?)
Total Depth: 60.5%
Crown Angle: 34.5 deg
Pavilion Angle: 40.4 deg
Cut: VG

Diamond B (0.6)
Table: 56%
Crown: (don't have this piece of info)
Pavilion Depth: 43%
Girdle: thin-slightly thick
Total Depth: 61.4%
Crown Angle: 34 deg
Pavilion Angle: (I couldn't get an exact number as at this moment but it's above 40 deg)
Cut: 3EX

Both have the H&A when viewed under the scope.

I agree with angietime that perhaps it's just a small factor that has bumped it from an EX cut to a VG. But it's also this same factor that it has not made the 'cut' (pardon the pun) that has me holding back.

tyty333, going bigger is good but I'm 5'2" and have small hands so bigger might just be too overwhelming ;)) Will save that for my 30th anniversary. A pendant perhaps? lol

Once again, I thank you all for your input so far :))
 
Do the vendors offer refunds? Can you buy one and take it to the other jeweler and compare them side by side? Have you seen both in different lighting? Does A go noticeably darker as you pull it closer to your face? If not, I would probably go with A.
 
Hi thb

The vendors in this country do not offer refunds. In fact, once I buy the diamond and leave their premise, should I go back to upgrade to another diamond, the original price drops by 30-35% :((

Diamond A doesn't go noticeably darker, BUT, when I hold it about 6-10" away, I can see faint dark lines spreading out from the middle point (the culet?) towards the girdle? I don't know what the technical term is so I'm not sure how to describe it here. They kinda look the same shape as the pavilion facets(?)

The jeweller just came back to me with the Pavilion Angle for diamond B. It's 40.6
Both diamonds do not have fluorescence and both register 0.6 on HCA.
 
I believe that's just bad photography, or photographed with higher contrast to highlight the HandA.http://www.gia.edu/research-resources/cut-microsite-pdfs/estimating_cut_grade_chart_lowres.pdf

You can see its because the pavilion angle is 42.5 on diamond A, which is over 41.8

THAT is not going to make a visual difference...plus as I said before, GIA measures the pavilion on one side of the diamond, the cutter measured on another, sometimes given a different gemologist those numbers can change. they could have measured it along the thick part of the girdle rather than the thin part, etc. PLEASE don't ever be disappointed by a VG cut! You won't have a microscope on it at all times and mounted I know you won't see any black flashes. Real human beings cut these diamonds, and I think its a miracle they come out so consistent considering that. My cushion is Good polish, FAIR symmetry and I worked for a diamond dealer for a year! If my stone had not been the exception to the rule it wouldn't have appealed to use, but it sparkled so much more than I've seen better made stones do...

and I personally like faceted girdles rather than polished ones...less of a cheap cutting method and is also making the E color look whiter than it would as a polished girdled stone.
 
msmei|1341823674|3230912 said:
Hi thb

The vendors in this country do not offer refunds. In fact, once I buy the diamond and leave their premise, should I go back to upgrade to another diamond, the original price drops by 30-35% :((

Diamond A doesn't go noticeably darker, BUT, when I hold it about 6-10" away, I can see faint dark lines spreading out from the middle point (the culet?) towards the girdle? I don't know what the technical term is so I'm not sure how to describe it here. They kinda look the same shape as the pavilion facets(?)

The jeweller just came back to me with the Pavilion Angle for diamond B. It's 40.6
Both diamonds do not have fluorescence and both register 0.6 on HCA.
Click to expand...

IMO the numbers of the two stones are so close that they can be essentially the same for all we know, considering GIA"s averaging and rounding. Perhaps get an IdealScope if you are really curious, but at the end of the day you have to rely on your eyes.

Does what A does bother you? Does B do what A does as well? Is it less noticeable? Round stones with shallower pavilion angles like A is more likely to reflect more of your head (make the facets go dark) as you pull the stone closer to your face.
 
but we're talking about an EX vs a VG, not an EX vs a GOOD, its not going to make a difference!

I had compared a .73ct G I1 EX cut VG polish EX symmetry to my .89ct K VS1 CUSHION GD polish FR symmetry

You tell me why my cushion cut out-sparkled the round! My vintage cushion has a 50% round table to its little rectangular cute self, and my cushion is good polish fair symmetry. You are asking about whether 0.7 degrees makes you get dark streaks, at this point you sound convinced that all exexex's are beautiful. I don't believe they all are, but Hearts and Arrows couldn't really ever be anything but beautiful no matter the VG or EX cut. IDK if you wanna spend $300 less and get a diamond you feel is worth that amount than go for it. I just personally would get the larger stone.

My suggestion, look at them again...if you can go to a window, see if you still see black streaks. Sometimes I see darker sparks from H&A diamonds just by the style of the cut being more precise and wider spread than normal diamond facets in the pavilion.
 
FYI angietime, GIA does not grade cushions for cut. Cushions also have a much wider variety of cuts that work vs modern round brilliants. The inclusions in an I1 may also inhibit the brilliance of the stone and as such is not really a fair comparison.
 
I think the dark streaks that she is referring to may be the arrow images produced in a well cut round. If that is the case, that is a normal occurrence in an ideal cut stone.

Pavillion angles over 41 get dinged on the HCA. There is a reason for that; it's not fair to the poster to just gloss over that and tell her that it doesn't matter. It makes a difference and whether or not it matters to her is up to her.

Rounds and cushions are two completely different diamond cuts - both beautiful but you cannot compare them.

I think that I would maybe consider starting my search again. Unless you feel that you must have D-E color, it is certainly safe for you to go to F-G color to find a larger stone. I understand your desire to keep it on the smaller side but diamonds have a way of shrinking on the hand very quickly. We'd love to help you get the largest stone with the best cut possible in your budget.

Would you consider or would it be possible for you to purchase a stone from the internet in the United States? Just wanted to ask so that maybe myself or someone else could show you some possible contenders.
 
I will just say that this whole forum is to advocate for well cut diamonds, and I am not going to be recommending a stone with a 40.4 degree pavilion angle. Obviously people on the street are not going to know or care what the cut grade of your stone is. But an excellent cut stone should perform better and will have more value if you ever decide to sell it and upgrade. I would say that you would have a much better chance of selling an excellent cut stone for a better price if you listed on pre-loved.

I'd much rather have a stone in the .70 range, but I wouldn't settle for vg cut when you can buy an excellent cut stone.
 
look, I know there's no cut grade on a cushion, but even a round stone could never be excellent cut with a fair symmetry grade, that is factored in first of all.

Secondly, the I1 was not the issue. The round was all choppy cuts, didn't have a style to the cutting that made it sparkle. I saw a .60ct I loved, but it was so tiny comparing the two. That's why I'm a little more hesitant to recommend a exexex .60ct, and yes my finger size is 3/4 of a size larger, but we are really nitpicking here. If you want to buy the smaller stone then great, but I can't see spending $300 less for .13ct loss!
 
and furthermore, I feel if any of you can tell from a .7 degree crown angle difference that a VG cut looks different than an EX, become a gemologist, because that's completely beyond my scope of reality. I don't mean to get frustrated but for real, I don't like that I really did come on this particular post to give advise after pregrading thousands of diamonds last year working for a supplier and I was hardly wrong in my assessments. I just don't get it guys...small and pretty or big with a not shabby certificate...its not my choice but please don't disregard what I'm saying. If the difference bothers you then you know what to choose. But in terms of value I'd get the 0.73ct and talk to a trustworthy diamond cutter Good Old Gold has one. Costs $100 or so to recut the crown if it makes you happy.
 
I think there is some confusion here--the pavilion angle on diamond A (the 0.73 carat) is *not* over 41, it's only 40.4 degrees like DS mentioned, or 42.5%. The reason why it's gotten a VG cut grade instead of excellent is because of the slightly shallow pavilion angle. As a result, the 0.73 might show some obstruction (go darkish) when viewed up close or when the wearer's body/head casts a shadow on the stone. These kind of stones make better pendants than rings generally. Best to get it checked out by an appraiser to make sure there are no obstruction issues.
 
You're right, IDK why I kept saying crown angle, but again ladies, I'm amazed you think a VG cut is anything outside of outstanding and I can't say I've ever seen a stone go dark unless it had a Good cut or worse. Sorry, I'm nodding out with that.
 
Hi all, finally had time to log in after work and saw your replies. The last thing I want is for my question to cause frustration to anyone....

I agree with angietime that the VG cut doesn't make the diamond any less lovely/better than one with an EX cut. Had I thought it was I wouldn't have put the title of this topic as 'undecided', rather it might have been 'Which Is Better'. And angietime is also right in the fact that it's a very good buy for just an additional USD300.

At the same time I also agree with diamondseeker2006 that an EX cut diamond will have more value should I decide to sell or upgrade later. And this is especially true in my country where jewellers will sell VG grade cuts, but will hesitate in buying back/accepting for upgrade (this was the opinion I got when I asked several jewellers whilst shopping for my 'perfect' diamond).

For me, buying this diamond is a big step in my life. I've never ever spent that much of my hubby's money before on jewellery. Granted that he wants to give it to me and he was the one that set the budget, but my background/upbringing/culture holds me back from spending so much without getting back the best that I can find.

And hence, I'm back to square one....undecided :loopy: :)) They're BOTH lovely diamonds.

I'm taking MissGotRocks' advice and starting my search over but I'm not comfortable buying online. I'm also considering lowering the colour to G (if really necessary) to increase the carat weight to 0.70 since she said that diamonds have a way of shrinking very quickly on the hand... :lol:

I value all your opinions and I thank you for taking time out to help me make an informed choice. :love:
 
As mentioned in my previous post, I've begun my search over and have come across a 0.83, G, SI1 at a local jeweler.

The numbers on this diamond are:
Dimensions: 5.99-6.01 x 3.74
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 55%
CA: 35 deg
CH: 15.5%
PA: 40.8deg
PD: 43%
SL: 55%
LH: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3.5%)
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal
Cut: EX
Polish: VG
Symmetry: EX
Fluorescence: None

I have asked the jeweler to hold it for me so that I can drive down to their showroom this weekend to view the diamond. May I know what the experienced PSers and experts on this forum think of this stone?
 
Thoughts, anyone? Please? This ring is going to mark a milestone in our lives (20 years of marriage) and I'm hoping the kind folks on this forum could direct me in the right direction.

Many thanks in advance =)
 
Looks promising from the numbers.
 
I hope in the showroom this stone has a good life to it and that this'll be you're one... Today I went by my jeweler's booth and he had a customer who is a fireman there shopping for a diamond. He said he was up 24 hours thinking about what his friend said about diamond color, that because he was picking a 1.21 J EX EX EX he was crazy don't go less than H because you're stone will look too dark and her friends will know blablabla...

So, I got to look with him at F-I color options, all SI-VS, all EX EX EX to see if it made a difference in the money. And I'm telling you because of the style this diamond cutter had facetted this modern round J stone, we all kept going back to it saying but that one sparkles more...even when other diamond certificates said the same angles and similar tables etc.

It really comes down to an in person encounter when you compare stone to stone, unless you are forced to trust your diamond education and shop online, I think you seem to have found a great diamond salesperson who is willing to show you a variety. Keep your search open until you fall in love with the stone...not necessarily the cert.
 
Thank you thbmok and angietime for your replies =)

Angietime: The sales assistants have been great, but they're all from different vendors. I've been calling up several local stores with my requirements and this one came back, so I'll be popping over this evening to have a look. There will probably be other options coming in soon from the other vendors whom I've asked to search for me. I appreciate your view that a stone that's not 3EX doesn't mean it isn't as good as a 3EX in it's optics performance. So I've kinda changed my mindset and am now looking at other stones as long as the CUT is graded EX (am I on the right track?)

I have some newbie questions which will probably show my ignorance :confused: but I'm hoping you can set me straight.
(1) Will the polish grade VG affect the beauty of the diamond in any way?
(2) Would you consider a depth of 62.4% deep?
(3) And if so, would the diamond then face up slightly smaller than a 0.83 should?
 
Another stone surfaced while I was posting. It's a 0.80ct, G, VS2, GIA 3EX

Dimensions & proportions are as follows:

Measurements: 5.90-5.94x3.68
Depth: 62.2%
Table: 58%
CA: 35.5 deg
CH: 15%
PA: 40.8 deg
PD: 43%
SL: 55%
LH: 80%
Girdle: Med-Slightly Thick (faceted) 4%
Clarity characteristics: Crystal
Fluorescence: None

I ran the numbers through HCA and it came back 2.8. The HCA being an eliminator tool (from what I've learnt on this forum), does it mean I should disregard this diamond because it scored above 2? The previous diamond (the 0.83, 2EX) scored 1.6

My apologies for all the questions. The myriads of parameters are confounding me! :loopy: :mrgreen:
 
OP,

I love this quote you said :) such a wonderful sentiment.

"For me, buying this diamond is a big step in my life. I've never ever spent that much of my hubby's money before on jewellery. Granted that he wants to give it to me and he was the one that set the budget, but my background/upbringing/culture holds me back from spending so much without getting back the best that I can find."

You will find a beautiful diamond that you will cherish and you deserve!!! :))

I think this latest diamond is worth at least more consideration! I am sure others will chime in with their thoughts!
 
Hi 2023, thanks for your moral support of my search for a 'perfect' diamond, without too much burden on my hubby's wallet :bigsmile:

I went to view the 0.83ct, G, SI1 today. I liked the size and didn't mind the colour. In fact, I found that I kinda like it's 'warmer'(?) colour. It was clean to the eye. But under the 10X loupe, I could see the small polish grains that must have dropped the polish grade to VG. But I'm okay with that.

I looked at the diamond under the H&A scope and the hearts turned up nicely. But strangely, when I looked at the arrows, though arrow heads and it's base aligned, they seemed to lean slightly to the right...everyone of them. Does that make sense? Is that even possible? Or did I view it wrong. The diamond was placed properly, not tilted or anything like that and the scope was placed level over it.

Under the showroom lights (which were plenty!), the diamond sparkled. Took it out to the sunlight (not very strong sun, slightly overcast) and I was a little disappointed. I had brought along another diamond just to compare...a 0.71ct/G/VS1 (also EX cut, VG polish, EX symmetry) but that one showed a little more life.

I will be going to view the 0.80/G/VS2 tomorrow. That shop is located within a shopping complex so I'm doubtful I will be able to view the diamond under sunlight.
 
Hello PSers. It's been about 3 weeks since I posted on this forum to seek advice and....hubby and I have finally picked out my diamond! :appl: I'd like to record my thanks to everyone who has given his/her input and advice and also to the Pricescope forum in general for supplying me with a wealth of info to help me make my final decision.

I came across the stone at a jewelry expo recently held in my area. Taking advice from PSers, I downgraded the colour to G, clarity to SI1, but maintained the 3EX requirement and got me a 0.81ctw stone that was under my hubby's budget even with setting (a simple solitaire setting) :D The stone doesn't score too well on the HCA (2.7) but looked beautiful to me when I inspected it (but then all diamonds look beautiful to my untrained eye :lol: ). It was also 'eye clean' to me. Hubby was out of town so I requested they hold the stone for one day. The next day hubby and I went back to have a look. The SA brought out 2 stones, one a 0.85 and the one I'd selected without telling hubby which was which. He looked at both for a while and picked mine! I asked him why, he said it sparkled more! Lol! He was happy with the price and the thing that probably closed the deal with him is that we know the origin of the stone. It's mined in Canada (Diavik mine I think) and is called Nordic Fire. I know the branding shouldn't matter but it's a bonus ;))

More importantly....although I 'found' the stone, hubby approved it and it'll be the one to represent our 20th anniversary. Sorry for getting too mushy :lol: With the balance of the budget, we'll very likely get a plain band for him to mark the occasion. Both bands will have the date of our anniversary and our initials engraved on them.

I'll be getting the ring next week. Am so excited!

Once again Thank You Pricescope!
 
Congratulations! I'm so happy you found the right stone for you. Honestly, under 3 on the HCA is not a bad score. They just need to be evaluated more carefully. If your eyes picked it out of the line up and you love it, then I'm sure it's a gorgeous stone!
 
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