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Trying to match a Birks ring

L

lactuaire

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
5
Hi Everyone,

here is my situation. Resident in Montreal (Canada), I am in a relationship for the last 4 years and a half. It is now time to propose. I would like to do it by the end of this month (family will be in visit in Montreal), but for time constraint, it seems that May is more logical.

I am in love with a ring that I found at Birks:
http://www.birks.com/en/featured/collections/The-Amorique-Diamond-Collection/g820/3000482566

However, as I read this forum for the past weeks, the best option is to shop online. As a Canadian resident, I have to pay Canadian taxes 15% + custom fee 5-7% on top of the price :(

Here is the best match I could found on james allen website:

A) Settings

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/wedding-ring-sets/platinum-0-73ctw-split-shank-pave-set-diamond-ring-set-7047p-7602p.html
Item#: 70477602P
Platinum 0.73ctw Split Shank Pave Engagement Ring & Y122 by Danhov Wedding Band

Price: $7,480

A1 - Specifications for Item #: 7047p

Metal: Platinum (Alloy: PT950)
# of Diamonds: 122
Minimum carat total weight: 0.73
Average color: F-G
Average clarity: VS1-VS2
Can be set with: Round 1.00 - 3.50

A2 - Specifications for Item #: 7602p

Metal: Platinum
# of Diamonds: 100
Minimum carat total weight: 0.65
Average color: F-G
Average clarity: VS1-VS2


B) Diamond:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Round-Diamond-1461941.asp
Specifications for Item #: 1461941
1.02 Carat F-VVS2 Excellent Cut Round Diamond

Price: $11,603

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.02
Cut: Excellent
Color: F
Clarity: VVS2
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 62.0%
Table: 59.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Slightly thick to very thick
Culet:
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.39*6.41*3.97


Conclusion

I am very pleased with the look and price of the setting, but I feel that it is too much for the diamond (23k all taxes included is over my initial budget 16-18k). I was looking for a diamond around 6-7k.

Do you think the combination of this setting and diamond would be great (I know it's subjective but I would like to get opinions)?
Is the diamond too small given the setting can be set with a diamond between 1.00 and 3.50.

Are the diamond's characteristics good?
Should I look at other websites to find a good diamond? Blue Nile?
Is it normal I can't calculate the HCA because the crown and pavillon % are missing?

Other comments or opinions I should be aware to help me makes a good decision?

Thanks a lot for your help, I really need it

Mark
 
Too bad you are in Montreal (I'm not referring to the Habs ;-). Not sure if there are good local designers recommended here or not. There's a few of us here in Toronto, getting our diamonds online and then bringing it to Leif Benner a local designer/goldsmith here in Toronto to make the ring. Actually I think this fellow made a very similar setting with Leif last year:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-custom-ring-experience.165294/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-custom-ring-experience.165294/[/URL]

Also I picked up my diamond GIA-XXX G, VS2, hearts&arrows, HCA=1 for $8100. I found an initial diamond on Bluenile and then called ID Jewelery in NYC where they called the diamond in and found comparables. You can get all the info for HCA, by downloading the GIA report. Obviously you will pay more for F, VVS2, though when I got my diamond independently appraised the appraiser felt it was closer to F and VS1. Did you look at diamonds in person and determined that F and VVS1 is the quality you need? I believe Birks carries GIA so it would be comparable to online.
 
I would not get that diamond. For one thing, you don't want a very thick girdle. We can look for a diamond when we find you a more reasonably priced setting. But I would suggest looking for F VS1 instead of VVS2 since it will be totally eye and loupe clean and save you some money (or allow you to go a little larger on the diamond. G color would be good if you could consider it. I will show you some other settings.
 
if you are trying to match the amorique diamond I would look at the BGD quadex or GOG princess of hearts diamonds.
 
Okay, these can be ordered in platinum, but the prices are for white gold:

http://www.gabrielengaged.com/style/ER7239W83JJ

http://www.gabrielengaged.com/style/ER6666W44JJ

http://www.gabrielengaged.com/style/ER8001W44JJ

http://www.gabrielengaged.com/style/ER7235W83JJ

http://www.gabrielengaged.com/style/ER6242W83JJ

Actually, there are so many that you may as well look through them yourself!

(I think they show the same settings for different size stones or something because on the search page there are a few of some designs. So if you are interested in one, you might have to find out which is right for your diamond.)

I think you will have trouble ordering a setting to be ready by the end of the month, though. You may have to buy a cheap, temporary setting to propose with.

Good Old Gold carries Gabriel and Co. and I think possibly ID Jewelry can get them. Both jewelers are in NY and can pick up some stones that meet your specifications and can provide you with pictures and idealscope images. Gabriel and Co is also in NYC, so this may be one of the fastest possibilities for you. However, I am going to look a little more because this setting is not hard to find.
 
compare prices-it might not be better to shop online (given the taxes)? its definitely worth comparing what you would get online vs. in the store.
 
slg47|1334458627|3171328 said:
compare prices-it might not be better to shop online (given the taxes)? its definitely worth comparing what you would get online vs. in the store.
Click to expand...

The setting he was looking at was $9200 Canadian, so I am really certain he can do better online! I am sure he can get a fine quality platinum split prong ring for under $3000 US. $9200 is insane for that setting!!!
 
diamondseeker2006|1334459724|3171343 said:
slg47|1334458627|3171328 said:
compare prices-it might not be better to shop online (given the taxes)? its definitely worth comparing what you would get online vs. in the store.
Click to expand...

The setting he was looking at was $9200 Canadian, so I am really certain he can do better online! I am sure he can get a fine quality platinum split prong ring for under $3000 US. $9200 is insane for that setting!!!
Click to expand...

oh wow, just for the setting! yes, I definitely think you can get a similar setting for a better price!

ETA this is the diamond I was talking about
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.028-h-vs2-quadex-diamond-ags-104052128053

here is a similar setting
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/split-shank-truth-platinum-5665p
 
slg47|1334460855|3171354 said:
diamondseeker2006|1334459724|3171343 said:
slg47|1334458627|3171328 said:
compare prices-it might not be better to shop online (given the taxes)? its definitely worth comparing what you would get online vs. in the store.
Click to expand...

The setting he was looking at was $9200 Canadian, so I am really certain he can do better online! I am sure he can get a fine quality platinum split prong ring for under $3000 US. $9200 is insane for that setting!!!
Click to expand...

oh wow, just for the setting! yes, I definitely think you can get a similar setting for a better price!

ETA this is the diamond I was talking about
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.028-h-vs2-quadex-diamond-ags-104052128053

here is a similar setting
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/split-shank-truth-platinum-5665p
Click to expand...

Okay, I may have misread. The price is done the way Tiffany does...they are giving the starting price for the setting with the smallest diamond, I think. Regardless, I think he can do better.
 
Thank you all for the info. I will read carefully what you have suggested.

Mark
 
I think the combo you picked is not a good use of money and I wouldn't recommend it.

I would recommend looking for a cushion cut diamond which resembles your Birks choice more. On occasion, you actually find the amorique diamond in the virtual selection but it is rare. If I remember correctly, Steven Kirsch actually found and sold one but I think it was a fluke. We can help you find a better cushion.

Secondly, you can get a much nicer split shank design custom made. I am guessing that even if you go with Leon Mege, Steven Kirsch or Victor Canera - you can get it around $5000. The end result will be nicer than the Birk's ring or the JA one you linked. You can get a matching wedding band made.
 
If you don't mind going second hand, you can get a lot more for your buck. I personally don't mind second hand diamonds ... you can very well be getting a second hand diamond from the store but you just don't know about it.

If I were you, I would buy this diamond and then get a custom made setting from Leon Mege, Steven Kirsch or Victor Canera. You can probably do it for around $10,000 to $12,000 all in. You can then use the extra money for an awesome wedding band or for the wedding.
http://diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/27899/GIA-ExEx-101-square-cushion-HVS2-14K-solitaire.html

Of see if you can buy this AVC alone ..
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/avc-in-tacori-2620rdmdp-size-7-5-t173153.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/avc-in-tacori-2620rdmdp-size-7-5-t173153.html[/URL]
http://diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/27447/113ct-AVC-in-Plat-Tacori-2620RDMP-Size-75.html
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7268/

Another option - if you buy the diamond alone
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/reduced-1-52-ct-antique-cushion-jbeg-sophie-ring-t172806.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/reduced-1-52-ct-antique-cushion-jbeg-sophie-ring-t172806.html[/URL]
http://diamondbistro.com/category/215/Loose-natural-Diamonds/listings/27604/Reduced-again!-152-ct-antique-cushion-H-VS2.html

I also think this one is an awesome deal although it is not a cushion and the setting is a bit different.
http://www.diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/28030/168-carat-diamond-engagement-ring.html

Settings
http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/solitaire-engagement-ring-pave
http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/split-shank-engagement-ring
http://www.artofplatinum.com/vault/split-shank-solitaire-pave-ring
 
From his first post, it appears that he is looking at round diamonds.
 
Ya, I can't tell if Mark likes the style of setting AND diamond or just the setting.

If you like all of it - a cushion is a great choice and Gypsy's suggestion of http://diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/27899/GIA-ExEx-101-square-cushion-HVS2-14K-solitaire.html is fantastic. If I hadn't bought my stone already, I would have seriously considering bumping up my budget to it! If you have more in your budget, I second SLG47's suggestion to check out Good Old Gold's Princess of Hearts (see my avatar) and Brian Gavin's Quadex, they are very similar to the Amorique.

For the setting, those Gabriel & Co are really nice. Good Old Gold carries Gabriel & Co. Those are so close to the Birks ring for SOOOOOO much less! Birks is incredibly overpriced, it's the canadian version of Tiffany & Co (I'm Canadian - I know!). :) They even have their own little blue boxes. :)

Mark please post your requirements for the diamond and these lovely ladies can help you more specifically, you really are in fantastic hands!
 
Looking through the GOG radiant inventory I found the following around $12k - $14k. Even if you spent $2k on a setting from Gabriel & Co - which is over the MSRP and GOG discounts the MSRP - you're a couple thou under budget! :)

Play close attention the diameter of the diamonds and measure them out a on piece of paper. Unless you've seen them in person, even a 1 ct can seem pretty darn small when you see after it's been blown up high res on your monitor!

For your comparison:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4366/ 1.71 ct radiant F SI1 - Look at the Gemex report - looks pretty nice.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9045/ - 1.7 ct cushion H SI1

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8063/ - 1.37 ct Princess of Hearts G VS1

They can make a video for you comparing your choices, which I found very helpful.

Here's a 1.3 ct H VVS2 Quadex from Brian Gavin DIamonds-http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.341-h-vvs2-quadex-diamond-ags-104049712019
That ASET looks pretty damn spectacular!

I bet TravelingGal's 1.01 ct is looking pretty good pricewise, at this point. ;)
 
Hi Everyone,

First of all, thanks for the comments. As CharmyPoo said, I realise my first combo is not a good use of money :)

It is the setting of the Birks ring that first caught my attention, and when I found a similar setting on JA website, it was specified that this particular setting could only fit round diamond... But I prefer by far cushion cut or something similar.

I have a lot of reading to do in the coming days with all these posts. My first impression is I can buy a diamond (preferably not a second hand diamond) and then get a custom made setting from one of the place you mentioned. Or more simply, I can buy a diamond from GOG and select a setting from them (Gabriel & Co brand for example). This is my favorite option since I prefer to buy the setting, the diamond and the wedding band from the same place. And by doing so, I can make an appointment to view the setting and the diamond (rather to only view it online). The 6-hour drive from MTL may be well worth it.

Are the prices from GOG considered good? I suppose it is not negotiable, am I correct (except for the setting where they discount the MSRP, as webdiva mentioned)? If I take an appointment and make a selection, how much time usually do they take to prepare the ring?

Thanks again for all the info, it is really appreciated.

Mark
 
It depends on the manufacturer. GOG is having Beverley K Make my ring with some custom changes and it'll be about 4 weeks. If you take a stock setting where just the head needs to be customized to your diamond size it may be sooner. Email Marie at Good Old Gold for more info - she was very helpful! They may also have something in stock that you like or can call in some samples, so call before you head down there.
 
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