Trying to decide btw 3 Round Diamonds. Help Please!

[Orchidian]

Hello everyone!

I''m new to this forum and I''ve been lurking for the past several days. I''ve been trying to look for my engagement ring (yes, my fiance delegated the task to me) and I only have about a week till my engagement party. Eeeeeeeeek!

I know it sounds crazy that we already set the engagement party, but my mom insisted on doing it soon because she''s leaving soon and wants the party to happen before she leaves. So now I''m in the crazy spot of trying to find a perfect diamond.

I''ve decided I want a round diamond, between 1.5 and 2 ct, G color, VS2, with the best cut possible. I''m trying to stay below $12,000 and I''m considering delving into H. I''ve played around with the Holloway Cut Adviser and fear that its only added to my frustration.

So far I''ve found 3 rings that I''d like to get opinions on. Please be as brutally honest as possible. Also, any other diamond suggestions would be greatly welcomed!

Carat weight: 1.51
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $7,387
Depth %: 62.7%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.36 x 7.32 x 4.60 mm
Price: $11,155



Carat weight: 1.67
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Depth %: 61.1%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.63 x 7.65 x 4.67 mm
Price: $10,859



Carat weight: 1.66
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $7,269
Depth %: 60.3%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.68 x 7.71 x 4.64 mm
Price: $12,067

 

[kcoursolle]

Can you post the crown and pavillion angles? It''s hard to say much about the cut without these numbers. Also, do you have any pictures or ideal scope images of the stones?

So far, I would probably skip number 1 (a little deep), but need for information on 2 and 3.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:41:51 AM
Author: kcoursolle
Can you post the crown and pavillion angles? It''s hard to say much about the cut without these numbers. Also, do you have any pictures or ideal scope images of the stones?

So far, I would probably skip number 1 (a little deep), but need for information on 2 and 3.

Ditto KC, if you could post that info it would really help. I take it these are GIA graded? Are they from an online vendor?

 

[Orchidian]

Hello again, sorry about forgetting to include that info. Yes they are GIA graded. Here are the specs:

Carat weight: 1.51
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $7,387
Depth %: 62.7%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.36 x 7.32 x 4.60 mm
Price: $11,155
Crown: 34.5 degrees
Pavillion: 41.6 degrees

Carat weight: 1.67
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Depth %: 61.1%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.63 x 7.65 x 4.67 mm
Price: $10,859
Crown: 33 degrees
Pavillion: 41 degrees

Carat weight: 1.66
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $7,269
Depth %: 60.3%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.68 x 7.71 x 4.64 mm
Price: $12,067
Crown: 33.5 degrees
Pavillion: 40.8 degrees

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 12:42:42 PM
Author: Orchidian

Hello again, sorry about forgetting to include that info. Yes they are GIA graded. Here are the specs:

Carat weight: 1.51
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $7,387
Depth %: 62.7%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.36 x 7.32 x 4.60 mm
Price: $11,155
Crown: 34.5 degrees
Pavillion: 41.6 degrees



Carat weight: 1.67
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Depth %: 61.1%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.63 x 7.65 x 4.67 mm
Price: $10,859
Crown: 33 degrees
Pavillion: 41 degrees



Carat weight: 1.66
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Price per carat: $7,269
Depth %: 60.3%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.68 x 7.71 x 4.64 mm
Price: $12,067
Crown: 33.5 degrees
Pavillion: 40.8 degrees

Thanks!

I like the last one best, is there any chance of getting an Idealscope image of the diamond?

 

[Orchidian]

I''m so sorry but I really don''t know what an Idealscope image is. I can see the GIA certificate and the image on that--- if that''s what you mean...

 

[stone-cold11]

This is what an idealscope is and what the image looks like. http://diamonds.pricescope.com/firescope.asp

#1 is definitely out, #2 and #3 might be worth considering, meaning IS images. Is this from online vendor or from a brick store?

 

[Orchidian]

Oh, I see! Wow, that''s pretty cool. These diamonds are from online retailers and I don''t see any thing about an idealscope image offered. I just called and they said they don''t have that image available.

Is an idealscope image typically shown with online retailers?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/5/2009 1:04:40 PM
Author: Orchidian
Oh, I see! Wow, that''s pretty cool. These diamonds are from online retailers and I don''t see any thing about an idealscope image offered. I just called and they said they don''t have that image available.

Is an idealscope image typically shown with online retailers?

Not most, just a select few. I think you''d be fairly safe with the 3rd one, that gets my vote.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 12:50:58 PM
Author: Orchidian
I'm so sorry but I really don't know what an Idealscope image is. I can see the GIA certificate and the image on that--- if that's what you mean...

This explains about Idealscope images and their use.

http://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

The third one is the 'safest' out of the three especially without the above images to evaluate the diamonds.

 

[stone-cold11]

These 2 should be within your budget and requirements. JA will give you an IS image if you request them.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1210098.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1210727.asp

This is an SI1, slightly bigger, ask for an IS and also ask JA to verify it is eye-clean if you want to consider it.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1128351.asp

 

[marcy]

I would go with #3 as well.

 

[Orchidian]

The only thing I''m worried about with the 1.7 one is that it has a strong fluorescence. Do you think that would make it cloudy?

Also, the other two you kindly showed me have thin girdles, I thought that was something to stay away from because the diamond might crack, am I wrong?

 

[Orchidian]

Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:

I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:14:02 PM
Author: Orchidian
The only thing I''m worried about with the 1.7 one is that it has a strong fluorescence. Do you think that would make it cloudy?

Also, the other two you kindly showed me have thin girdles, I thought that was something to stay away from because the diamond might crack, am I wrong?

Only stay away from extremely thin girdles, thin is not a problem. Only a small percentage of strong and very strong Fluorescence affects the stones, giving an oily/hazy look. Just ask JA for verifications that it does not have these characteristics. I have 2 very strong blue fluorescence and both do not have the oily/hazy look.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:16:27 PM
Author: Orchidian
Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:

I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

Girdles - if you have a trusted vendor to check then a very thin or extremely thin is not necessarily a problem. There can be reasons which are non sinister for very thin/extremely thin and not all are a potential durability issue - a trusted vendor will be able to advise if this is ever the case. A thin girdle is fine.

Fluorescence - very rarely strong or very strong blue can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but a trusted vendor again can advise, this is unusual for fluorescence to have a negative effect.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:28:22 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/5/2009 2:16:27 PM

Author: Orchidian
Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:
I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

Girdles - if you have a trusted vendor to check then a very thin or extremely thin is not necessarily a problem. There can be reasons which are non sinister for very thin/extremely thin and not all are a potential durability issue - a trusted vendor will be able to advise if this is ever the case. A thin girdle is fine.

Fluorescence - very rarely strong or very strong blue can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but a trusted vendor again can advise, this is unusual for fluorescence to have a negative effect.

Lorelei, I think he is asking about his initial selections, why you guys prefer #3 and if it is worth the price jump over #2?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:48:07 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 4/5/2009 2:28:22 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/5/2009 2:16:27 PM

Author: Orchidian
Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:
I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

Girdles - if you have a trusted vendor to check then a very thin or extremely thin is not necessarily a problem. There can be reasons which are non sinister for very thin/extremely thin and not all are a potential durability issue - a trusted vendor will be able to advise if this is ever the case. A thin girdle is fine.

Fluorescence - very rarely strong or very strong blue can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but a trusted vendor again can advise, this is unusual for fluorescence to have a negative effect.

Lorelei, I think he is asking about his initial selections, why you guys prefer #3 and if it is worth the price jump over #2?

Yes I was just about to address that also but wanted to give my thoughts on girdles and fluorescence first.

Orchid, are the second and third diamonds from the same seller or online vendor? This would be useful to know so I can give you my thoughts on the pricing, sometimes this can affect pricing levels amongst other things.

 

[Orchidian]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:52:02 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/5/2009 2:48:07 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 4/5/2009 2:28:22 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/5/2009 2:16:27 PM

Author: Orchidian
Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:
I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

Girdles - if you have a trusted vendor to check then a very thin or extremely thin is not necessarily a problem. There can be reasons which are non sinister for very thin/extremely thin and not all are a potential durability issue - a trusted vendor will be able to advise if this is ever the case. A thin girdle is fine.

Fluorescence - very rarely strong or very strong blue can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but a trusted vendor again can advise, this is unusual for fluorescence to have a negative effect.

Lorelei, I think he is asking about his initial selections, why you guys prefer #3 and if it is worth the price jump over #2?

Yes I was just about to address that also but wanted to give my thoughts on girdles and fluorescence first.

Orchid, are the second and third diamonds from the same seller or online vendor? This would be useful to know so I can give you my thoughts on the pricing, sometimes this can affect pricing levels amongst other things.

Yes, they are all from the same online vendor. Perhaps I can send you all the vendor privately? I don''t see a private message feature on this forum. Does that exist?

Hehehe, also, I''m a girl , Stone-Cold

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 3:39:29 PM
Author: Orchidian

Date: 4/5/2009 2:52:02 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/5/2009 2:48:07 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 4/5/2009 2:28:22 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/5/2009 2:16:27 PM

Author: Orchidian
Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:
I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

Girdles - if you have a trusted vendor to check then a very thin or extremely thin is not necessarily a problem. There can be reasons which are non sinister for very thin/extremely thin and not all are a potential durability issue - a trusted vendor will be able to advise if this is ever the case. A thin girdle is fine.

Fluorescence - very rarely strong or very strong blue can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but a trusted vendor again can advise, this is unusual for fluorescence to have a negative effect.

Lorelei, I think he is asking about his initial selections, why you guys prefer #3 and if it is worth the price jump over #2?

Yes I was just about to address that also but wanted to give my thoughts on girdles and fluorescence first.

Orchid, are the second and third diamonds from the same seller or online vendor? This would be useful to know so I can give you my thoughts on the pricing, sometimes this can affect pricing levels amongst other things.

Yes, they are all from the same online vendor. Perhaps I can send you all the vendor privately? I don't see a private message feature on this forum. Does that exist?

Hehehe, also, I'm a girl , Stone-Cold

LOL! Sorry Orchid, we don't have PM's here....If you would rather not say which vendor thats fine. There could be various reasons for the price differences, it is a considerable difference in price, it would be great if we could get an Idealscope image of the first as that would give us a better idea of how the diamond looks...Is the vendor one who has the diamonds in stock or in house, or are they are large company that " drop ship" the stones?

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 4/5/2009 3:39:29 PM
Author: Orchidian
Yes, they are all from the same online vendor. Perhaps I can send you all the vendor privately? I don't see a private message feature on this forum. Does that exist?

Hehehe, also, I'm a girl , Stone-Cold

No PM available to prevent private soliciting, I think.

Sorry. , didn't notice the beginning of your post where you mentioned you are the girl looking for your own ring. :p

 

[kcoursolle]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:28:22 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/5/2009 2:16:27 PM
Author: Orchidian
Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:

I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

Girdles - if you have a trusted vendor to check then a very thin or extremely thin is not necessarily a problem. There can be reasons which are non sinister for very thin/extremely thin and not all are a potential durability issue - a trusted vendor will be able to advise if this is ever the case. A thin girdle is fine.

Fluorescence - very rarely strong or very strong blue can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but a trusted vendor again can advise, this is unusual for fluorescence to have a negative effect.

Ditto, and I wanted to add that no matter what diamond you choose you should get your ring insured so you don''t have anything to worry about in case (very rare) your diamond chips, or in case it is stolen, lost, damaged, etc.

You''ll have to decide whether it''s worth it to you to pay an additional 1k. If I had images I could say more, but I agree that based on numbers alone #3 looks a bit nicer than #2.

You may want to try to look around more though, because you could save a ton of money if you look in the SI range and work with a vendor with pictures. Many SI''s are completely eye clean and many vendors such as Whiteflash, jamesallen, goodoldgold.com will take pictures and ideal scope images and can actually look at the stone to look you know if it''s eye clean. I don''t see anything with looking around a little more!

 

[Orchidian]

I don''t mind letting you guys know they are all from Bluenile--- hehe, I''m just worried they might not be there when I''m ready to pull the trigger. When I called Bluenile, the rep didn''t know what the Ideal-Scope was.

I called Whiteflash and they are closed today. I sent them a message and hopefully they will call me back. I live in Houston, TX and I think they are located here too. I''d love to go into the store to see for myself. I can''t wait to get a call back from them.

By the way, I had nooooooooooooooo idea picking out a diamond was going to be this complicated. My mom is absolutely furious that I''m doing so much research, hehehe, she''s very different than me. But I guess it''s in my nature to try and find the best deal possible.

 

[kcoursolle]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:09:45 PM
Author: Orchidian
I don''t mind letting you guys know they are all from Bluenile--- hehe, I''m just worried they might not be there when I''m ready to pull the trigger. When I called Bluenile, the rep didn''t know what the Ideal-Scope was.

I called Whiteflash and they are closed today. I sent them a message and hopefully they will call me back. I live in Houston, TX and I think they are located here too. I''d love to go into the store to see for myself. I can''t wait to get a call back from them.

By the way, I had nooooooooooooooo idea picking out a diamond was going to be this complicated. My mom is absolutely furious that I''m doing so much research, hehehe, she''s very different than me. But I guess it''s in my nature to try and find the best deal possible.

If you live close to WF, this is *definitely* the way to go!! It would be a blast to visit WF and actually pick out a stone in person with their experts guiding you through each step. Many of us here would love the chance to do this!!! You have a very solid budget to work with as well and you can view in person SI stones and see whether you are comfortable with them.

 

[Orchidian]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:11:43 PM
Author: kcoursolle

Date: 4/5/2009 4:09:45 PM
Author: Orchidian
I don''t mind letting you guys know they are all from Bluenile--- hehe, I''m just worried they might not be there when I''m ready to pull the trigger. When I called Bluenile, the rep didn''t know what the Ideal-Scope was.

I called Whiteflash and they are closed today. I sent them a message and hopefully they will call me back. I live in Houston, TX and I think they are located here too. I''d love to go into the store to see for myself. I can''t wait to get a call back from them.

By the way, I had nooooooooooooooo idea picking out a diamond was going to be this complicated. My mom is absolutely furious that I''m doing so much research, hehehe, she''s very different than me. But I guess it''s in my nature to try and find the best deal possible.

If you live close to WF, this is *definitely* the way to go!! It would be a blast to visit WF and actually pick out a stone in person with their experts guiding you through each step. Many of us here would love the chance to do this!!! You have a very solid budget to work with as well and you can view in person SI stones and see whether you are comfortable with them.

Wow, Kcoursolle, you''ve got me even more giddy! I didn''t realize what a blessing that is, Yay!

I''m HOPING the SI will settle well with me. I''m very nit-picky and so I hope I get lucky

 

[kcoursolle]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:19:02 PM
Author: Orchidian

Date: 4/5/2009 4:11:43 PM
Author: kcoursolle

Date: 4/5/2009 4:09:45 PM
Author: Orchidian
I don''t mind letting you guys know they are all from Bluenile--- hehe, I''m just worried they might not be there when I''m ready to pull the trigger. When I called Bluenile, the rep didn''t know what the Ideal-Scope was.

I called Whiteflash and they are closed today. I sent them a message and hopefully they will call me back. I live in Houston, TX and I think they are located here too. I''d love to go into the store to see for myself. I can''t wait to get a call back from them.

By the way, I had nooooooooooooooo idea picking out a diamond was going to be this complicated. My mom is absolutely furious that I''m doing so much research, hehehe, she''s very different than me. But I guess it''s in my nature to try and find the best deal possible.

If you live close to WF, this is *definitely* the way to go!! It would be a blast to visit WF and actually pick out a stone in person with their experts guiding you through each step. Many of us here would love the chance to do this!!! You have a very solid budget to work with as well and you can view in person SI stones and see whether you are comfortable with them.

Wow, Kcoursolle, you''ve got me even more giddy! I didn''t realize what a blessing that is, Yay!

I''m HOPING the SI will settle well with me. I''m very nit-picky and so I hope I get lucky

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with lower clarity/color stones. My sweet spot is H/SI, but many here have awesome awesome J/SI stones that they love and they are an incredible value.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:09:45 PM
Author: Orchidian
I don''t mind letting you guys know they are all from Bluenile--- hehe, I''m just worried they might not be there when I''m ready to pull the trigger. When I called Bluenile, the rep didn''t know what the Ideal-Scope was.

I called Whiteflash and they are closed today. I sent them a message and hopefully they will call me back. I live in Houston, TX and I think they are located here too. I''d love to go into the store to see for myself. I can''t wait to get a call back from them.

By the way, I had nooooooooooooooo idea picking out a diamond was going to be this complicated. My mom is absolutely furious that I''m doing so much research, hehehe, she''s very different than me. But I guess it''s in my nature to try and find the best deal possible.

Ok I did wonder when you said Idealscope wasn''t a possibility. How convenient you are in Houston, then a visit to WF is definitely in order!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/5/2009 2:16:27 PM
Author: Orchidian
Ellen, Lorelei, Marcy:

I like #3 as well, but is it worth an additional approx. $1000 over #2?

My guess is, #2 is less because of the angles. They are critical to the light performance of a diamond. There is a certain range that is optimal, and once you start deviating from that range, it can, and in many cases will affect the performance. On the second stone, the crown is getting into the slighly shallow area, though that''s better for this particular pavilion angle. It''s at a very critical area where you can begin to get light leakage. Plus, GIA rounds their numbers, so the crown could be more shallow than it appears, and the pavilion slightly deeper.

So to answer your question of is it worth it, my answer would be, quite possibly. Because I''m thinking, you have 2 stones basically the same weight, same color and clarity, yet 1000 difference. That tells me BN thinks the second is lacking a bit, and priced accordingly. Light performance is everything, so I''d pay more for a better cut stone.

And I ditto the others on a thin girdle. That''s fine, mine has one and no problems.


However, seeing you''re close to WF, that might be the way to go. It''s always nice to have the luxury of eyeballing excellent cut stones, most of us don''t have that.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 4/5/2009 4:30:44 PM
Author: Ellen
My guess is, #2 is less because of the angles. They are critical to the light performance of a diamond. There is a certain range that is optimal, and once you start deviating from that range, it can, and in many cases will affect the performance. On the second stone, the crown is getting into the slighly shallow area, though that''s better for this particular pavilion angle. It''s at a very critical area where you can begin to get light leakage. Plus, GIA rounds their numbers, so the crown could be more shallow than it appears, and the pavilion slightly deeper.

So to answer your question of is it worth it, my answer would be, quite possibly. Because I''m thinking, you have 2 stones basically the same weight, same color and clarity, yet 1000 difference. That tells me BN thinks the second is lacking a bit, and priced accordingly. Light performance is everything, so I''d pay more for a better cut stone.

I believe that is not necessary, since we are dealing with a drop-shipper. I　ｂｅｌｉｅｖｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｃｕｔ　ｇｒａｄｅ　ａｒｅ　ｓｅｔ　ｂｙ　ｔｈｅ　ｏｗｎｅｒｓ　ｗｈｏ　ａｃｔｕａｌｌｙ　ｓｅｅｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｓｔｏｎｅ　ａｎｄ　ｎｏｔ　ｂｙ　ＢＮ．　　Unless both stone are own by the same cutter or jeweler, it is not really an apple to apple comparison based on the price.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/5/2009 5:19:21 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 4/5/2009 4:30:44 PM
Author: Ellen
My guess is, #2 is less because of the angles. They are critical to the light performance of a diamond. There is a certain range that is optimal, and once you start deviating from that range, it can, and in many cases will affect the performance. On the second stone, the crown is getting into the slighly shallow area, though that''s better for this particular pavilion angle. It''s at a very critical area where you can begin to get light leakage. Plus, GIA rounds their numbers, so the crown could be more shallow than it appears, and the pavilion slightly deeper.

So to answer your question of is it worth it, my answer would be, quite possibly. Because I''m thinking, you have 2 stones basically the same weight, same color and clarity, yet 1000 difference. That tells me BN thinks the second is lacking a bit, and priced accordingly. Light performance is everything, so I''d pay more for a better cut stone.

I believe that is not necessary, since we are dealing with a drop-shipper. I　ｂｅｌｉｅｖｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｃｕｔ　ｇｒａｄｅ　ａｒｅ　ｓｅｔ　ｂｙ　ｔｈｅ　ｏｗｎｅｒｓ　ｗｈｏ　ａｃｔｕａｌｌｙ　ｓｅｅｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｓｔｏｎｅ　ａｎｄ　ｎｏｔ　ｂｙ　ＢＮ．　　Unless both stone are own by the same cutter or jeweler, it is not really an apple to apple comparison based on the price.

If they are from their Signature Selection they are on site, but, we don''t know that. I was just kind of assuming here, which I shouldn''t. But, the fact remains they are what they are, and priced accordingly.The third is cut better than the second, and cut costs.