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Trump in Ohio.

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Octo2005

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I don't understand the need to lecture on privilege as if the person you are talking to does not understand the plight of the poor or disenfranchised. You don't know anything about anyone else here other than what we tell you or if you know us IRL. Voting is one particular aspect of being an American citizen that I, and many others, personally hold sacred and want to be protected from outside influence of any kind. We should absolutely make it easier to do so within the confines of being eligible. Other far poorer countries require id to vote.
It was not my intention to lecture, merely express a different point of view and express my frustrations.

I can support an ID requirement, but feel that the current system is geared towards disenfranchising many economically challenged groups.

I am for more concerned with the interference being perpetrated by outside influences, than the few voters that may not be eligible, but vote anyways. I don't feel that we are doing enough to curtail monetary influence (both foreign and domestic) and I don't feel that we are doing enough to keep the process safe from hackers.
 

telephone89

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Hi,

I'm a bit behind, but thanks Octo-mom for your reply. I wasn't just thinking about Gov't IDs which is the method most talked about in this decade. I used to have a voters ID card for many, many yrs, that was sent to me after I registered. Where I live you can register at any library at any time. Most people have drivers licenses so this does not present a problem. The Founding Fathers did not expect everyone to vote. (that's from some memory--cant prove that now) I think it is better for those not interested or aware of what the issues are to not vote. Thanks for looking up those posts for that vendor. I'm so computer illiterate.

Having things easy or given without earning is not what made America great. Voting is a right. Let people use it.

Annette
You are absolutely correct! That's because they also owned slaves and considered women as chattel. So of course they weren't allowed to vote.
 

Octo2005

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@Alex T just one example of gun ownership - I am not a big gun person. I believe in the right of ownership but have never felt the need to have one. I used to target shoot with my grandfather and it was lots of fun but I haven't done it in years. He left me an antique revolver when he died and I do cherish it even though I haven't ever fired it. With that said, we just bought a lakehouse in a very remote place. It is 30 minutes from a tiny town. If someone were to break in, 911 probably wouldn't do a bit of good. It would take at least 20-25 minutes for help to arrive. I am planning to get a handgun for my own protection. I stayed there for 4 nights by myself and I think I need it just in case. It will of course be locked up in a bedside safe and I will take a gun safety course. This is an example of why those who live in rural areas are pro 2nd amendment.
Hopefully you will never have to use it:pray:
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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It was not my intention to lecture, merely express a different point of view and express my frustrations.

I can support an ID requirement, but feel that the current system is geared towards disenfranchising many economically challenged groups.

I am for more concerned with the interference being perpetrated by outside influences, than the few voters that may not be eligible, but vote anyways. I don't feel that we are doing enough to curtail monetary influence (both foreign and domestic) and I don't feel that we are doing enough to keep the process safe from hackers.
I am glad that was not your intent. Tone is hard to discern on the internet. :wavey:

Much is done to help those who are poor and disenfranchised, but IMO for voting (and firearms) the playing field and requirements need to be level no matter one's circumstances. If I weren't a libertarian leaning person I would say that people need to pass a civics test before voting to prove that they are informed enough to do so. ;)2

If I were in charge there would be a single campaign fund that is divided among candidates equally and media ad time and space would be equal and across all forms. Once the money is gone then it's gone. I wouldn't have to see or hear ads for a year before an election either. I know I am dreaming.
 

Alex T

Ideal_Rock
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@Alex T just one example of gun ownership - I am not a big gun person. I believe in the right of ownership but have never felt the need to have one. I used to target shoot with my grandfather and it was lots of fun but I haven't done it in years. He left me an antique revolver when he died and I do cherish it even though I haven't ever fired it. With that said, we just bought a lakehouse in a very remote place. It is 30 minutes from a tiny town. If someone were to break in, 911 probably wouldn't do a bit of good. It would take at least 20-25 minutes for help to arrive. I am planning to get a handgun for my own protection. I stayed there for 4 nights by myself and I think I need it just in case. It will of course be locked up in a bedside safe and I will take a gun safety course. This is an example of why those who live in rural areas are pro 2nd amendment.
Your new home sounds absolutely blissful, but I can understand your safety concerns. Being in the UK & guns never having been a thing here, it wouldn't cross my mind to get one. Over here it would be an alarm system & a panic button. But I'm not sure there is anywhere here really THAT remote that emergency services couldn't get to you for that length of time, except perhaps some remote areas of Wales or Scotland & the Hebrides. The UK really isn't very big, thankfully!
 

the_mother_thing

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Speaking to privilege. I am only suggesting that we should try to be more cognizant of the advantages that come with levels of different socioeconomic status. It's not an excuse. It irritates me to no end when we flippantly state that it's an excuse and say "I did this or that, so everyone else should be able too", without acknowledging that but for the innate privileges that your were born into (ie..Race, religion, socioeconomic status of your family, and even where you were lucky or unlucky enough to be born) and advantages/opportunities you have earned thru socioeconomic gain, you may or may not have been able to achieve those thing.

To ignore that some start closer to the finish line and some (no matter how hard they work) will never get there, benefits no-one in our society and only contributes to the widening disconnect between the working-poor, middle and upper classes. Acknowledging that some are disadvantaged is not making an excuse. Blaming those who struggle and accusing them of not trying hard enough is not acceptable and allows us to develop a "them" vs "us" mentality.

I read an interesting book a few years back Nickel and Dime: On (not) Getting by in America by Barbara Ehrenreich. It was enlightening to say the least. The author leaves her cushy suburban life and goes undercover trying to live off of minimum wage. This edition includes the original book and the authors follow-up, done ten years later. It was eye-opening to step into the day-to-day life of the working poor and see some of the struggles that never would have occurred me.
To be clear, I didn’t say/post what you noted above (in red); I said people make different choices, prioritize things differently, etc. I’m not blaming anyone. The ‘excuses’ I referred to were the examples you highlighted, such as needing childcare, time off work, taking bus vs. car, etc. Those - IMO - are merely excuses because these are situations people contend with everyday. So, I’m genuinely curious what/how - specifically - you feel ‘the system’ is disenfranchising potential voters by requiring an ID to vote? And what ‘system’?
 

Octo2005

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To be clear, I didn’t say/post what you noted above (in red); I said people make different choices, prioritize things differently, etc. I’m not blaming anyone. The ‘excuses’ I referred to were the examples you highlighted, such as needing childcare, time off work, taking bus vs. car, etc. Those - IMO - are merely excuses because these are situations people contend with everyday. So, I’m genuinely curious what/how - specifically - you feel ‘the system’ is disenfranchising potential voters by requiring an ID to vote? And what ‘system’?
My apologies if I miss understood. My point was that some "choices" aren't really choices, but you are absolutely right many have their priorities mixed up.

I don't have a problem with voter ID laws per say, but have concerns that this can be used to exclude some eligible voters from exercising their right. Just as gerrymandering and closing polling stations/limiting hours, can have impacts on turn-out in some areas.

https://journalistsresource.org/studies/politics/elections/voter-photo-id-law-research/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 2, 2013
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5,602
@Alex T just one example of gun ownership - I am not a big gun person. I believe in the right of ownership but have never felt the need to have one. I used to target shoot with my grandfather and it was lots of fun but I haven't done it in years. He left me an antique revolver when he died and I do cherish it even though I haven't ever fired it. With that said, we just bought a lakehouse in a very remote place. It is 30 minutes from a tiny town. If someone were to break in, 911 probably wouldn't do a bit of good. It would take at least 20-25 minutes for help to arrive. I am planning to get a handgun for my own protection. I stayed there for 4 nights by myself and I think I need it just in case. It will of course be locked up in a bedside safe and I will take a gun safety course. This is an example of why those who live in rural areas are pro 2nd amendment.
I also have one of my grandfather’s firearms (Beretta Border Marshall); he was very much into firearms, helped train security & police officers, etc. It’s not my ‘go-to’ because of its size, but I do appreciate having it, given it was one of his go-to’s and he was so passionate about responsible gun ownership.

If you’re looking for a class or series of classes, I’d suggest checking out The Well Armed Woman to see if they have a chapter in your area. I like that they are all women instructors providing classes/training only for women ... from those not used to handling any sort of firearm to the very experienced. One of the non-TWAW classes I took early on was mostly men with a male instructor, and I felt like they were moving a bit fast for me and I was still learning and less familiar with some of the lingo, etc. I think - in a lot of cases - men & women view certain aspects of firearms, ownership and handling a little differently, have different approaches, concerns, etc. Even things as simple as how/where we might conceal vs. a man. Anyway ... just wanted to pass that resource along if you’re looking for one. :wavey:

This also leads me to think about why I’m not an advocate for anyone else telling me what type of firearm I can/should be able to own/use. I’ve shot a few revolvers, and I personally do not like them, am not as accurate with them, and consequently in a self-defense scenario I do not feel comfortable nor confident relying on one the same way I am/can with - for example - my Glock .380 or SW 9mm. Same goes for rifles, though I won’t elaborate on that since I refuse to be lectured on what I choose to own & why.
 

msop04

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What a small world!:wavey:

We lived in Mobile. It was over ten years ago, so I don't remember all of the details, but I do remember it being awful.

I may have been limited because I was transferring from an out-of-state license. Or maybe, I am just spoiled since I can usually go for a renewal and be done in less than 10 minutes.

P.S. It was bugging me thinking about why I would wait for so long, so I just did a quick google search and you are correct there are 5 listed for Mobile, but only 2 in Mobile proper. However, I assume at the time the reciprocal license played a part. Looking at the locations and the sprawl of the Mobile area, if you don't have a vehicle, getting there can be difficult.

To put it in perspective, I currently live in a neighboring county to a large county with one of ours states major metropolitan areas (40 minutes outside of the city). Where I live is less populated and has a mix of residential communities and rural areas - I have 6 within a 15-20 minute drive.
Small world, indeed! We live in the Bham area, but just vacationed in Gulf Shores this past weekend -- with a quick trip to Biloxi (and through Mobile). :)

I'd have to say that you were definitely spoiled with a 10 minute wait at the DMV -- dear Lord, I didn't even know that was possible!! I've had to get mine updated in Jefferson County (Birmingham) and in Shelby County (where we live now)... and I can tell you, it was no quick process for either. Bham location took every bit of 3 hours and Shelby County took about 1.5 hours. Lines are long and I don't believe the employees at either could move more slowly if they tried (let's be honest).

That said, the wait really depends on the time of day and which day of the week (I'd never dream of going in at noon... well... EVER, on a Monday morning, or a Friday afternoon). What I'm getting at is that if your business involves something like that (whether it be for an ID or whatever), it's a necessary inconvenience for everyone.

...10 minutes???!! Seriously?? (I'm envious!)
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
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@Octo2005 in these articles and studies I don't see any information on economic status of the voters that voted without id? How then can it be argued that it is the poor who are disenfranchised? If the numbers are higher in minorities is it assumed it is economic factors rather than perhaps apathy or some other reason? That seems condescending to me. Are some of their priorities different as @the_mother_thing suggested? Whatever the reasons, the numbers are quite small. The politicians on both sides of this are using a very small amount of voting circumstances to make a very big issue, whether for or against it. IMO I would rather have it than not and make getting id as easy as securely possible.
 
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Tekate

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With legal guns?


ok but note that my mistake was posting factual information in a hate fest.
Then being baited into a bit of fun.
So back to the regularly scheduled hate fest.
 

arkieb1

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@C-4 dude, the only reason the government would start shooting it's citizens is because people like you voted in a dickhead for a President. Sit quietly in your paranoid white male privilege and reflect on that.
 

Ella

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Alright folks this thread has gone sufficiently off topic, I am going to close it since everyone is done discussing things in a civilized way.
 
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