Trouble deciding between diamonds...

[MissBull]

I have been trolling your forum for awhile as I'm in the process of custom designing an engagement ring. I am NOT involved in the business of diamonds AT ALL, so I'm trusting you guys, the experts

Both of these diamonds are slightly over our budget so if we are going to splurge, I want to make sure it's worth it. Both are shape RB. The third option, of course, is NEITHER!

Sparkle and brilliance are generally most important to us. The diamond will be set as the centerpiece to a floral design and surrounded by six 0.10 princess diamonds. Ring size = 5.

Diamond #1:
GIA - Feb 2010
Measurements - 6.39 - 6.46 x 3.94 mm
Carat - 1.0
Color - G
Clarity - VS1
Cut - VG
Polish - VG
Symmetry - VG
Flourescence - Faint
Girdle - extremely thin-extremely thick (faceted)
Table - 57%
Depth - 61.3%
Marked Canadian
Price $7,700 (brick & mortar NYC)

Diamond #2:
GIA - April 2010
Measurements - 6.57-6.61 x 3.96 mm
Carat - 1.04
Color - G
Clarity - VS1
Cut - EX
Polish - EX
Symmetry - EX
Flourescence - None
Girdle - medium-slightly thick (faceted)
Table - 59%
Depth - 60.1%
Marked Canadian
Price $8,700 (brick & mortar NYC)

PLEASE HELP!

 

[stone-cold11]

Need the angles. Can you post the GIA report numbers?

 

[MissBull]

Sorry... I was hoping I included all the important info.

Diamond #1 (1.04 carat) - GIA Report 2115919958
Diamond #2 (1.0 carat) - GIA Report 2115694083

Hope that's the number you need.

 

[slg47]

1.04 carat - HCA = 1.4

Depth: 60.1%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Height: 13.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 55%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None


1.00 carat - HCA = 0.8

Depth: 61.3%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.4°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star length: 60%
Lower Half: 85%
Girdle: Extremely Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None

 

[MissBull]

Thanks slg47! What do the HCA numbers mean and how does that translate to value (based upon the prices of the diamonds)?

1.04 carat - HCA = 1.4

Depth: 60.1%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Height: 13.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 55%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None


1.00 carat - HCA = 0.8

Depth: 61.3%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.4°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star length: 60%
Lower Half: 85%
Girdle: Extremely Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None

 

[stone-cold11]

Prefer the 1.04 stone.

The cut of the 1.0 stone most likely will result in ithaving obstruction issue, a extremely thin girdle is more likely to chip, depending on where the thin part is located.

 

[slg47]

Prefer the 1.04 stone.

The cut of the 1.0 stone most likely will result in ithaving obstruction issue, a extremely thin girdle is more likely to chip, depending on where the thin part is located.

@MissBull: generally you want to look for stones that score under 2 on HCA, HCA is a blunt tool to weed out poor performers, stones that score under 2 should be taken into further consideration, however, it is possible that some great stones don't score well on HCA, if you have IS image that tells more.

@Stone-Cold: what specifically would lead to obstruction? is there an article on this, or previous thread?

 

[MissBull]

Prefer the 1.04 stone.

The cut of the 1.0 stone most likely will result in ithaving obstruction issue, a extremely thin girdle is more likely to chip, depending on where the thin part is located.

@MissBull: generally you want to look for stones that score under 2 on HCA, HCA is a blunt tool to weed out poor performers, stones that score under 2 should be taken into further consideration, however, it is possible that some great stones don't score well on HCA, if you have IS image that tells more.

@Stone-Cold: what specifically would lead to obstruction? is there an article on this, or previous thread?

@slg47: Looks like both diamonds scored pretty well on HCA. I've seen the 1.0 in person, but not the 1.04 for comparison (not even sure there would be one with my untrained eye). I'm trying to get the most bang for the buck and not overpay for something I don't really need.

@Stone-Cold: I did read about the precautions with an extremely thin girdle. I'm concerned here about daily wear... especially because this setting will sit the diamond up a bit and leave the edges exposed.

 

[slg47]

are you OK with going down to VS2 or SI1 clarity? that would save some $$, since you mentioned not overpaying for something you don't really need...but if VS1 is important to you then that's fine too

 

[tyty333]

Have you considered buying on line? Here is an example of what you could get for $7k.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809049

Well cut, has all the images to back it up, has 100% tradeup policy (if needed). A lovely stone!

Edit...
This one is on sale for $6400
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047963003

 

[MissBull]

are you OK with going down to VS2 or SI1 clarity? that would save some $$, since you mentioned not overpaying for something you don't really need...but if VS1 is important to you then that's fine too

The clarity isn't necessarily the most important thing to me. I don't wear any valuable jewelry and this will be my single piece so I'm just trying to balance the best I can get without getting ridiculous haha.

 

[slg47]

OK then maybe consider a SI1 diamond to stay in budget? an eye-clean SI1 will look the same to naked eye as VS1.

also HCA is only a rejection tool, so even though both stones score well on HCA, you can't use that to select them. I would trust stone, he has a lot of knowledge about diamonds

 

[MissBull]

Have you considered buying on line? Here is an example of what you could get for $7k.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809049

Well cut, has all the images to back it up, has 100% tradeup policy (if needed). A lovely stone!

Edit...
This one is on sale for $6400
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047963003

Those are beautiful!! And seem to be a good value for the money. A Canadian mined diamond, however, is a necessity for me (I've done a lot of research on this and made a personal decision... not looking to revisit whether the premium on a Canadian diamond is worth it or about the effects of mining in the NWT...).

 

[Dreamer_D]

Can they call in the diamond you have not seen and let you compare?

Unless you are a real cut nut, I suspect that both of these will pass muster in terms of cut quality.

BUT they will have very very different looks or flavours. On the one hand with the 1.04ct you have a 60/60 type stone with shorter lgf and on the other hand a more traditionally ideal proportioned stone wrt table and depth that has very long lgfs. This will lead to different patterns of arrows and contrast and one might appeal more to you than the other.

Only by seeing them both in person can you decide which you prefer.

To save a tonne of money you can easily drop to VS2 and still have a totally eye clean stone, and can even drop to SI1 and most likey find a totally eye clean stone with perhaps a little more effort.

 

[MissBull]

OK then maybe consider a SI1 diamond to stay in budget? an eye-clean SI1 will look the same to naked eye as VS1.

also HCA is only a rejection tool, so even though both stones score well on HCA, you can't use that to select them. I would trust stone, he has a lot of knowledge about diamonds

Appreciate the help. I'm sure both diamonds are gorgeous (to the naked eye) and maybe I can find a SI1... or just up our budget

 

[MissBull]

Can they call in the diamond you have not seen and let you compare?

Unless you are a real cut nut, I suspect that both of these will pass muster in terms of cut quality.

BUT they will have very very different looks or flavours. On the one hand with the 1.04ct you have a 60/60 type stone with shorter lgf and on the other hand a more traditionally ideal proportioned stone wrt table and depth that has very long lgfs. This will lead to different patterns of arrows and contrast and one might appeal more to you than the other.

Only by seeing them both in person can you decide which you prefer.

To save a tonne of money you can easily drop to VS2 and still have a totally eye clean stone, and can even drop to SI1 and most likey find a totally eye clean stone with perhaps a little more effort.

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to see if they can find me something more in that range. How do I know if it's eye clean? Can I tell that by the report??

I will definitely go take a look in person. I'm not a "cut nut" or even a diamond nut at all so I really have no idea what I prefer...

 

[tyty333]

Have you considered buying on line? Here is an example of what you could get for $7k.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809049

Well cut, has all the images to back it up, has 100% tradeup policy (if needed). A lovely stone!

Edit...
This one is on sale for $6400
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047963003

Those are beautiful!! And seem to be a good value for the money. A Canadian mined diamond, however, is a necessity for me (I've done a lot of research on this and made a personal decision... not looking to revisit whether the premium on a Canadian diamond is worth it or about the effects of mining in the NWT...).

Completely understand! I think one of the PS vendors sales Canadian diamonds but I'm not sure how to search for them.

 

[stone-cold11]

VS2 is relatively safe for eye-clean purposes, unless you are seriously short-sighted? Most SI1 are eye-clean, but case by case but since you can see the stones personally, determine from that.

Obstruction is something I would not want to have in a ring stone, basically it is the black of the arrows going into other facets too when you are viewing it about 1 ft away, normal viewing distance, the closer you view the stone, the more the facets will go dark especially if you are dark skin or have dark hair. Check it out yourself on that 1.00c stone, the rounding of numbers by GIA, high crown angles and good optical symm might mitigate the problem. Generally, stones with a pavilion angle of below 40.6 will need to be careful with obstruction issues.

Obstruction looks something like this GOG stone.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7468/

 

[tyty333]

Blue nile deals in canadian stones...maybe you can look for stones that you like the numbers on then ask your local
jeweler to call them in.

http://www.bluenile.com/canadian-diamonds

 

[MissBull]

@Stone-cold11: Thanks for your insight. Perhaps when I find another stone I'm interested in, I can look to you for advice... I really appreciate it.

@tyty333: That's a great idea. I'm not sure about how the relationship between retailer and wholesaler works generally but my jeweler indicated that they don't have many diamonds in the store... that they specifically request them from their wholesaler (the jeweler is well-known and recommended) and that all of Blue Nile's stones are out on the market... if that makes sense in my layman language