Trilogy project : choose diamond - surface graining on diamond E IF ?

[Eloan]

Hi guys and girls

Excuses me for my mistakes in english i'm french
I need your help because, i'm looking for a trilogy diamond and I'm lost because I have 2 possibilities and I really need you

Choice 1: A store in germany
They offers a trilogy (platinum 950 settings) for 3000€ with total of 0.80 CT and GIA certificates!
- 1 central stone 1x 0,40 Ct diamond color E - IF - triple EX - GIA certificate I have 11 GIA certificates to choose
- 2 lateral stones 2x0.20ct diamond color G-VS (no choice)
---> Price is very good BUT I can't see the diamonds, I have to choose only between 11 GIA certificates (3 EX, no fluorescence)I checked the 11 diamonds, none are in this range : table 54-57/ Depth 61.62.5/ Crown 34-35 / Pavillon angle 40.6-41
I can't pay for a lot HCA I found this one it score 1.2 HCA BUT I need your help because it's written Surface graining : https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2316082156

---------> Question : Is the surface graining is a problem with E IF diamond ? what is the risk ?

Choice2: Buying diamonds and CRAFT here
I met a very good crafter, but he took me 1000€ for the settings using my own gold white, and only the claws will be in platine. So it let me ... only 2000€ french taxes included for 3 diamonds of my choice... (around 1600 $ on bluenile website)
I'm looking for diamonds color D E and IF or VVS ?

Warning: I can only buy on Blue Nile (I have taxes difficulties with others)
With taxes, it's the same that if I have only 1600$ on bluenile.com website

Choice 1 seems the best price, but I can't be sure about the diamonds
Choice 2 It's difficult to find diamonds in this range of price too ...

Thanks you for your advices

 

[OoohShiny]

Bonjour!

Surface Graining is usually far too small to be visible - it should therefore not affect performance (as I understand it).


Do you require Colourless (D-E-F) and very high clarity (IF, VVS) for cultural reasons?

G and H colour stones are still very white, and VS1 is 'eye-clean' to most people with good vision (with some VS2 and SI stones also being eye-clean but maybe difficult to find).

You could save money or increase size if you widened your search to D-H and IF-VS1/VS2

 

[lovedogs]

Bonjour!

Surface Graining is usually far too small to be visible - it should therefore not affect performance (as I understand it).


Do you require Colourless (D-E-F) and very high clarity (IF, VVS) for cultural reasons?

G and H colour stones are still very white, and VS1 is 'eye-clean' to most people with good vision (with some VS2 and SI stones also being eye-clean but maybe difficult to find).

You could save money or increase size if you widened your search to D-H and IF-VS1/VS2

This!

 

[Eloan]

Hi

thanks you for your replys !

I don't want to increase the size , I'm really happy with a 0.40/0.45
This trilogy will represent 3 people I loved, who are in heaven now... My Dad let me money to have a ring, he didn't have enough time to choose for me. I have to choose myself.

That will be the most expansive jewellry I own.

My husband proposed me with a 0.30 diamond, I don't want to have bigger than 0.45.
As my budget is 3000€ , I choose to have a beautiful white, and something as pure as possible to remeber people I lost.

I'm okay for VS, or VVS !! But the german store has only G VS or E IF, so I choose E IF.
Regards,

 

[sledge]

Appreciate the follow up on color/clarity requirements.

I'm okay with whatever size you choose. I would just keep this in mind -- the smaller the stone, the less critical the color & clarity. Of course, in smaller stones, sometimes the price difference between a G/VS and E/IF is pretty minimal as well.

Regarding Option 1:
58 table, 61.5 depth, 34 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

These proportions are pretty good. FYI, it scores a HCA of 1.1.



It's hard to do a full diamond analysis on a certificate only, but the proportions tell me the stone has good promise of being a good performer. It will likely favor a little more white light return vs rainbow light (fire) due to the large table and shallow crown. However, the steeper pavilion & 75 LGF will help provide a little more fire.

While you get a little more white light return with the larger table & shallower crown, you also pick up a little extra spread. So it should be on the larger side of other stones measuring in the same carat range.

I personally would have an issue not being able to see a picture or video prior to buying. What is the return policy in case it's a dud in real life? Remember, proportions only give us an indication of performance. Actual precision (or lack thereof) faceting can make or break a diamond. Getting advanced images like an idealscope or ASET would help determine if there is any major leakages in the stone.

 

[OoohShiny]

If you are looking for amazing diamonds in Europe, you should check out Crafted by Infinity -
http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/

They have a European base in Antwerp and their listed supplier for Europe is Fortrez:
http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/web/locations-europe/index.html
http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/search/

Paul Slegers is the Managing Director and is on this forum.
John Pollard, the USA representative, is also a regular contributor.
Wink from High Performance Diamonds (who are the main USA vendor, as I understand it) is a Trade member on this forum.

The HPD website has better pictures and videos than Fortrez. (@Wink - I love the new videos, and the Chris Ploof range is an excellent addition!)

They have some diamonds that may be of interest for your 0.4 centre stone:

http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/10587/detail.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10587
F VVS1

http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/10582/detail.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10582
E VVS1

http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/10580/detail.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10580
F VVS1

They do not usually cut diamonds under 0.25ct but they might be able to custom-cut for you

Wink also does lovely rings - he might be able to design something for you!:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/jewelry/jewelry-detail/49/trilogie.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/jewelry/jewelry-detail/52/trellis.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/jewelry/jewelry-detail/66/5-stone-trellis-ring.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/jewelry/jewelry-detail/43/classic-platinum.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/jewelry/jewelry-detail/7/maude-platinum.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/jewelry/jewelry-detail/4/metropolis-platinum-.htm
(Some of those are more than your budget, but you can ask possible prices.)


It sounds like I am being paid by HPD/CBI but I am not - I purchased a CBI stone for my wife and it is lovely, and I think you should consider them if you want 'the best'!

 

[Eloan]

@sledge : Thank you very much for this analyse ! is it an issue for you the comment on the GIA certificate "Surface Graining, Minor Details of Polish" should I be concern and worried about surface graining ?

I will ask for the return policy tomorrow !

@OoohShiny : I didn't know this website!!! I will be on it starting now for a lot of hours see you tomorrow

 

[OoohShiny]

You will need to look for AGS000 stones with the little red 'i' logo on Fortrez, but the HPD website lists all the CBI stones - all the CBI vendors have access to the same, worldwide inventory

 

[lovedogs]

You will need to look for AGS000 stones with the little red 'i' logo on Fortrez, but the HPD website lists all the CBI stones - all the CBI vendors have access to the same, worldwide inventory

I love this idea. CBI is the best of the best (or at least top 3) so perfect for a special piece.

 

[Eloan]

I'm looking for everything but it seems I don't have enough money for HP diamond I have 2000€ VAT for 3 diamonds, one is 1700€
I asked for a setting I will see the quotation.

 

[sledge]

@sledge : Thank you very much for this analyse ! is it an issue for you the comment on the GIA certificate "Surface Graining, Minor Details of Polish" should I be concern and worried about surface graining ?

I will ask for the return policy tomorrow !

The comments are not a concern. If you aren't aware, IF = Internally Flawless. The keyword there being internally. This means that within the diamonds you won't find any flaws.

However, on the exterior (or externally) of the stone you may find minor surface graining and/or details of polishing. These have little consequence as they are barely detectable under magnification. If by chance, a stone were to have NO internal or external flaws, it would be marked as FL = Flawless. However, the mere act of setting a stone may create the tiniest of flaws.

I understand and respect your desire to find a perfect stone so you can honor your deceased family members; however, I would suggest backing off the clarity requirements a bit so you can hit your budget goals and make the ring a reality.

Brian Gavin Diamonds = BGD is where I bought my fiancee's stone. They have a strong reputation for quality hearts & arrow (H&A) cuts like HPD/CBI. Also WhiteFlash (WF) is another quality vendor. The advantage of CBI is they have some overseas operations. Both WF and BGD are based out of Houston, TX, USA; however, they also both ship internationally.

Honestly, all 3 are cream of the crop. Some prefer CBI, some WF and others BGD. I love'm all if I'm being honest because I like high quality stuff.

For your situation I think BGD may offer a good solution:

BGD Black 0.405 E VS2 @ $1,261 USD
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../0.405-e-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104104723103

BGD Black 0.213 F VS2 @ $459 USD
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../0.213-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104101862066

BGD Black 0.216 F VS2 @ $459 USD
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../0.216-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104100653044

Using the wire price, this puts you right at:

• $2,179 USD for all 3 stones
• 1,915€ using Google currency converter (maybe slightly higher depending where you exchange)
• Not sure VAT for your specific location but assume 20% = 1,915€ x 1.20 = 2,300€

I know this puts you a little over your 2,000€ budget for all 3 stones, but these will be top quality stones. Also, I kind of think it's cool they are part of BGD's Black series given the fact you are trying to honor deceased family. If you aren't aware, the Black series is the best of the best from BGD.

https://black.briangavindiamonds.com/

https://black.briangavindiamonds.com/about-us

 

[sledge]

Also have a look at this page. If I'm reading correctly, you get up to 7% off BGD stones right now.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/special-offers/

They've ran these specials before and honestly I find them confusing. I get they are trying to create excitement and connect, so maybe I'm a party pooper. I just like a simple discount code.

Anyhow, if you are confused about it, call Lesley at BGD. She will be able to maximize your discount and explain how it works.

 

[Eloan]

Ok I just have to control what time is in the US, because here it's 11.36 PM.
If they are able to send the diamonds from inside the EU it's ok, but if they can't ... I will have to pay 20% VAt taxes + I will need someone who take money too, to pay this taxes (200€ min) the diamonds will be blocked for that... it's very complicated.
Thanks you for all your advices it's very kind and i'm so so graceful...

 

[sledge]

Ok I just have to control what time is in the US, because here it's 11.36 PM.
If they are able to send the diamonds from inside the EU it's ok, but if they can't ... I will have to pay 20% VAt taxes + I will need someone who take money too, to pay this taxes (200€ min) the diamonds will be blocked for that... it's very complicated.
Thanks you for all your advices it's very kind and i'm so so graceful...

3/21/19, 17:56 CST.

Both WF and BGD are located and ships from the USA. To my knowledge, CBI is the only of the super ideal vendors that has LOCAL stores for international customers that may help you avoid VAT.

 

[Eloan]

Brian Gavin don't have office in Europe, and the discount doesn't work for blacks diamonds ! I will call FEDEX tomorrow to negociate... what the complete name of CBI ?
(I was in live chat with a customer support for BGD) The diamonds are wonderfuls..

 

[lovedogs]

Brian Gavin don't have office in Europe, and the discount doesn't work for blacks diamonds ! I will call FEDEX tomorrow to negociate... what the complete name of CBI ?
(I was in live chat with a customer support for BGD) The diamonds are wonderfuls..

Crafted By Infinity = CBI. The US retailer we usually talk about on here is high performance diamonds, but unthread someone linked a vendor in europe.

 

[sledge]

Crafted By Infinity = CBI. The US retailer we usually talk about on here is high performance diamonds, but unthread someone linked a vendor in europe.

I'm a car guy so I like to use car analogies.

To help better understand this, CBI is like a manufacturer (Ford, Audi, Porsche, etc). The local dealer you buy from may be called Bob's Badass Audi's and their biggest competitor is Ann's Hot Audi's located 1,000 miles away. Same car, but they service different regions.

Essentially....

CBI = the manufacturer (Audi)
HPD = a CBI dealer in the USA (Bob's BadAss Audi's)
Fortez = a CBI dealer in Belgium (Ann's Hot Audi's)

Unfortunately, searching HPD's website earlier I didn't a color/clarity/price combo that worked as well as the BGD combo I listed above.

 

[Eloan]

wohoooo I understood !!!
Tomorrow I will call belgium Fortez in the morning when we're both awake.
And I asked by email a quotation from Fedex for the taxes. The website speak about : 20% taxes + 2.5% for Fedex as "third pard" maybe I can have cheapest... i'm looking on internet. Total : 2800€

I contacted infinity craft revendors in their Irish office, and english office by mail

Next will be tomorrow, good "night"

 

[Eloan]

Well!

I am in contact with Celine from Diamondhouse.be (Belgium) who has been very kind to me and speaks french! Her house is able to sell diamonds "crafted by infinity", same base as HPD! but only with a settings. I can not buy only the diamonds.

It's ok, now I have to watch their settings.
Then .. stupid question but the AGS platinum certificate is it famous? If I want to sell the diamonds one day, will that be fine because in my country we swear only by GIA so ...

Do you think I can buy diamonds "crafted by infinity" without a look on them ?
and do you think it's worth it to spend the extra money I'm going to spend?

Thanks you !!!!!!!!!

 

[kmoro]

Well!

I am in contact with Celine from Diamondhouse.be (Belgium) who has been very kind to me and speaks french! Her house is able to sell diamonds "crafted by infinity", same base as HPD! but only with a settings. I can not buy only the diamonds.

It's ok, now I have to watch their settings.
Then .. stupid question but the AGS platinum certificate is it famous? If I want to sell the diamonds one day, will that be fine because in my country we swear only by GIA so ...

Do you think I can buy diamonds "crafted by infinity" without a look on them ?
and do you think it's worth it to spend the extra money I'm going to spend?

Thanks you !!!!!!!!!

Yay - good for you!

I think your question about AGS vs GIA is an excellent one, not stupid at all! You are right - globally speaking, the GIA certificate is the one that is recognized. The AGS certificate is mainly recognized in the USA. Generally the labs are comparable, but the world doesn’t know this, and it may cause you an issue should you choose to sell in Europe, for example. If a potential buyer is willing to do some homework, they may be able to reassure themselves that AGS is comparable to GIA. In the US, many prefer AGS because it reports on light performance. Grading is identical between AGS and GIA, except AGS will report fluorescence “negligible” where GIA will report the equivalent fluorescence “none” or “faint.” You can have the diamond graded by GIA in the future to ease a sale but the stone will have to be loose.

In my opinion, if you’re going to buy without seeing the diamond, CBI is the safest way to go - you are guaranteed to have an exceptionally beautiful diamond. I think it is well worth the extra money.

Goood luck!

 

[OoohShiny]

In my opinion, if you’re going to buy without seeing the diamond, CBI is the safest way to go - you are guaranteed to have an exceptionally beautiful diamond. I think it is well worth the extra money.

+1

I bought a CBI 'unseen' and it looked much better than I expected! They are much better than stones you find in local shops

If an AGS certificate is not trusted in Europe, you could send the stones to GIA for grading if you ever want to sell them - the cost is not too expensive.

Maybe Diamondhouse could send them to GIA now (when you buy them) so you don't have to remove them from the setting if you want to sell them later?