tough dilemma. Advice please

[computerguy]

I'm dealing with a thorny problem and would like your advice about what to do. Should I spend more time on this stone, or get another one in to view?

My local diamond broker, a nice guy has brought in a stone. At the same time, I was madly reading all I could about cut, cut grades, lightscopes, brilliancescopes, sarin machines, Holloway cut advisor, etc.

I now know that I'm interested in a 0.75+ carat, Hearts and Arrows, round brilliant, D, VS2( maybe SI1) or better, AGS 000 stone.

The stone is shown below. It has most of the things I would like. It "only" has an IGI cert and partial Sarin data.

IGI cert
0.79 carats
hearts and arrows
round brilliant shape
5.95mm - 6.03mm x 3.65mm
VS1 clarity
D colour
very slight fluorescence
excellent polish and symmetry
table diameter 56.5%
crown height 15%
pavilion depth 43.5%
thin to med faceted girdle
pointed culet
"ideal cut" in comments section.

CAN$6,800. (including platinum setting of my choice) + taxes.

Sarin data (minimal):
total depth 60.9%
crown 14.9% (a bit different from the cert)
crown angle 34.5 degrees
pavilion 43.4% (a bit different from the cert)
pavilion angle: *****not available***


HCA score using percentages: 1.7 (ex light return, very good for other stuff), assuming 0.25% culet

HCA score using sarin angles: ***not available***

I haven't spent enough time looking at the stone. I have looked somewhat at it using a H&A viewer. It looks OK on the first go around. I now know what to look for in the stone. I haven't spent any time with it using an idealscope (sorry Gary!)


Here are the questions:
1) Can the pavilion angle be derived from the information above? Once derived, it can then be plugged into the HCA to get a more accurate HCA score.

2) Should I ask him to find another stone that is AGS00, H&A and start the process all over again?

3) Or, should I derive, the HCA, closely examine the diamond with a H&A viewer and an idealscope, and if I like it then send it away for an AGS cert? It might not come back as an AGS 000 stone.

4) any comments about the roundness of this stone? I've seen many other certs and few of them seem to have so much variation/range in roundness. Given the plus/minus error variations, it could be 0.06 to 0.10mm out-of-round. (0.08mm is the actual difference between the 6.03-5.95 values.)

Advice please! I hope I have done enough reading on pricescope, diamondtalk, goodoldgold, niceice, etc. so that I don't sound totally like a newbie.

Urgh. This is what I get for being a nerdy computerguy that pays way too much attention to the number-side of things. Maybe I should have just purchased that overpriced, J-colour, I3 diamond in the mall. I'd be more broke, overpaid, etc. But it would have been quicker!

 

[canadiangrrl]

Hi Computer Guy,

Firstly, breathe.

What matters most is whether or not this stone meets with your expectations, whatever they may be, and whether or not you can comfortably afford it. If you are dead-set on having AGS0 on a DQD, you should look for a stone that already has an AGS DQD. If you simply want a nice performer that sparkles and makes the intended wearer happy, this stone might do the trick. Depends entirely on what you're hoping to get out of it.

The IGI cert seems to bother you. It's true that they're not always as accurate or as reputable as AGS, GIA, or HRD. Having said that, this stone might be exactly what it appears to be on paper - you won't know unless you get it independently verified. Which I would strongly advise that you do with any stone you're going to purchase, no matter which lab issued the report.

The price isn't out of line for a Canadian B&M. You need the angles for a more accurate gauge of the stone's performance vis-a-vis the HCA, so you'll need a Sarin report if you choose to go this route.

There is a dearth of premium stones at the retail level in Canada (especially in comparison to the US.) Ironic when you think of how many of them our country contributes to the world diamond market. What this boils down to is that you may have a difficult time finding a well cut stone that meets with your expecations and doesn't break the bank. I searched high and low in Toronto before I found Pricescope, and I didn't find too many GIA/AGS ideals.

If you're questioning the performance of this stone, get an Ideal-Scope, pronto. It will very likely be easier to get an Ideal-Scope than it will be to get a Sarin run - I don't know where you're located, but Sarin or OGI machines aren't terrifically commonplace in Toronto. Besides, numbers are numbers, and they don't always tell the whole story. The Ideal-Scope accurately gauges light return and there's no mistaking a poor performer from an excellent one.

And - bottom line - you've done your homework - so use your eyes and your gut, and buy what you like from someone you trust.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hi ComputerGuy!

CanadianGrrl gave you some very good advise. She's familiar with the market in Canada and a knowledgeable consumer.

The HCA score you got using %'s is not an accurate evaluation. You really need angles to get a more precise score. With %'s, the score can be quite a bit higher than it would be using angles. If the HCA score is really 2.5 to 3, then this diamond would be, "Worth buying if the price is right."

I don't know the exchange rate, but here is a comparable, true H&A diamond for you to study. The price takes a bit of a jump, due to the .80+ premium.

http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/ags0004209209/index.htm

You've seen your diamond in person. Did it sparkle and fire? Was it pleasing to your eye? Did it speak to you? Those are questions to ask yourself. If you have any doubts, then maybe you should pass and move on. If you loved this diamond, then you might have found THE one.

 

[computerguy]

Breathe? Breathe? Breathe? I'm not uptight, really! I'm not!

(sorry, I couldn't find a better smiley.)

I was hoping for stone that had good white light and colour performance. Scintillation was not as much as a priority. The AGS000 was a good way to get a good "by the numbers" stone.

In terms of cert, I would have preferred a AGS or a GIA cert. At least it is a consistent, reliable cert. I feel the IGI cert lowers the value of the stone (compared to an AGS or GIA cert). I haven't found a good independant appraiser in Vancouver. The EGL have a lab in town and they have a Sarin machine. They can also give a cert on the stone as well as an appraisal price.

Prices. This price will not break the bank. I was hoping that from a broker (a lower overhead B&M) that it would be lower on the part of the scale.

The vendor has an IdealScope. I think I'll try it out!

canadiangrrl, thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it. Sometimes it takes someone else asking questions to bring some things to light.

 

[computerguy]

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On 1/30/2004 9:08:27 AM pqcollectibles wrote:











Hi ComputerGuy!

CanadianGrrl gave you some very good advise. She's familiar with the market in Canada and a knowledgeable consumer.

Thanks for the additional advice!

The HCA score you got using %'s is not an accurate evaluation. You really need angles to get a more precise score. With %'s, the score can be quite a bit higher than it would be using angles. If the HCA score is really 2.5 to 3, then this diamond would be, 'Worth buying if the price is right.'

I don't know the exchange rate, but here is a comparable, true H&A diamond for you to study. The price takes a bit of a jump, due to the .80+ premium.

Where are the price breaks for carat size? I thought that the price range for this diamond was 0.70 to 0.89 carats. Thus (if I am correct), the 0.79 ct and the niceice 0.811 ct are in the same price bracket (size-wize).

http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/ags0004209209/index.htm

You've seen your diamond in person. Did it sparkle and fire? Was it pleasing to your eye? Did it speak to you? Those are questions to ask yourself. If you have any doubts, then maybe you should pass and move on. If you loved this diamond, then you might have found THE one.

I think I need to spend more time with it.

RWW
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[Giangi]

The stone is certified by IGI Antwerp, which is a good lab. It's respected here in Europe. The differences between the Sarin and the cert's data is negligible, especially if you consider that IGI rounds the percentages to the nearest 0.5%. It looks like a very nice stone: well cut, clean and superwhite! I wouldn't bother sending it to the AGSL... You'd only waste time & money. An appraisal is enough.

 

[computerguy]

Yes, it is certed by IGI Antwerp.

What do you think about the dimension of the stone? Is the 0.08mm a bit out of round?

The only appraiser I saw on pricescope was the EGL lab in Vancouver (where I live). How respected and consistent are they? I know they are can do me for an appraisal. (I'm wondering who else I should use instead.)

RWW

P.S.: Is it my imagination or computer-people and engineer-people are very picky / number conscious. Too left-brained.

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On 1/30/2004 1:12:47 PM Giangi wrote:





The stone is certified by IGI Antwerp, which is a good lab. It's respected here in Europe. The differences between the Sarin and the cert's data is negligible, especially if you consider that IGI rounds the percentages to the nearest 0.5%. It looks like a very nice stone: well cut, clean and superwhite! I wouldn't bother sending it to the AGSL... You'd only waste time & money. An appraisal is enough.

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[pqcollectibles]

Hey ComputerGuy!!

There are price premiums applied to ever tenth carat jump under 1 carat. At .5, .6, .7, and so on. There is also a price premium for the desirable 3/4 carat weight, mainly do to market demand. In H&A's there are further breakdowns on price premiums. When I was searching for diamonds for earrings, I learned that there are 2 brackets in the .4 to .5 carat weights. 0.4-0.44 is one price/carat and 0.45-0.49 is another price/carat.

I didn't mean for you to buy the Nice Ice diamond. I posted the link as a comparison for you since I am not up on the exchange rate. I know you would also have to pay import and taxes as well. That diamond was the closest Ideal I could find for you for comparative purposes.

Your jeweler has and Ideal Scope. That's GREAT!!! Try looking at some CZ's and some different diamonds to get a feel for using the IS before you scope "your" diamond. You'll get some practice and you won't set up some preconceived notions of how the IS of "your" stone looks if you use it wrong the first time.

I remembered a discussion about EGL in Canada. If this isn't the right thread, you might try searching past threads for more info.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-toronto.6756/

Sounds like you are doing very well with considering all the information on this diamond prior to purchase. Good Luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[computerguy]

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On 1/30/2004 2:15:29 PM pqcollectibles wrote:











Hey ComputerGuy!!

There are price premiums applied to ever tenth carat jump under 1 carat. At .5, .6, .7, and so on. There is also a price premium for the desirable 3/4 carat weight, mainly do to market demand. In H&A's there are further breakdowns on price premiums. When I was searching for diamonds for earrings, I learned that there are 2 brackets in the .4 to .5 carat weights. 0.4-0.44 is one price/carat and 0.45-0.49 is another price/carat.

[snip] Interesting. Where did you find out about the price bracket thing? When I did a pricescope price-stat, for H&A, round cuts, it shows only a 0.70 to 0.89 price bracket. No sub-brackets were shown. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a rap-sheet.


I remembered a discussion about EGL in Canada. If this isn't the right thread, you might try searching past threads for more info.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-toronto.6756/

Thanks. I'll check it out. I'll also do a search for EGL Vancouver vs. EGL Toronto.

Sounds like you are doing very well with considering all the information on this diamond prior to purchase. Good Luck and let us know what you decide.

okeydokey. I'll also post ring picts.

RWW
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[pqcollectibles]

You are right about the pricing charts, CompGuy! I remember them being different. My bad there.

Hope you found the link about EGL Canada helpful.