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To recut or not this heirloom diamond for sale?

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Eric_in_SD

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
5
I have the following diamond I am planning to sell. I am wondering whether it is worth getting it recut before sale. It is probably about 50 years old. I have a setting for it, but it is very spindly gold and probably not worth much. I do not have a certification.

Weight is 2.22 carat.

The following are from a quick appraisal done by a jeweler:
Color: M
Clarity: VSI2 to SI1

The jeweler observed that it is moderately damaged. He also observed that it is an antiquated cut.

He felt that it would fetch around $2,000, and if properly recut, it would go for around $3,000. Recutting it would cost $300 - $500.

My question is: Should I get it certified and sell it as is?

Or should I take a chance on getting it recut and then have it certified afterward?

Or not even get it certified and save that $160?

The pictures seem to exaggerate the yellow; I took the pictures under halogen light, and the camera seems to have brought out the yellow.

Your thoughts? Many thanks in advance.

img_0878.jpg
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That is an Old European cut and we will tell you absolutely not to get it recut! It might benefit from a little rehab, though, to make it more attractive for selling. I am not sure about the extent of the damage he mentioned, but if it is just the girdle, that can be polished, probably. You will get more than that for it if the stone is in better condition. But I would only give it to a cutter who knows this cut of diamond. There are people here who have rehabbed old diamonds before, so I am sure we can make some recommendations. I can check around tomorrow with a vendor who sells these. I also think it is closer to 100 years old than 50.
 
diamondseeker2006|1425960821|3844718 said:
That is an Old European cut and we will tell you absolutely not to get it recut! It might benefit from a little rehab, though, to make it more attractive for selling. I am not sure about the extent of the damage he mentioned, but if it is just the girdle, that can be polished, probably. You will get more than that for it if the stone is in better condition. But I would only give it to a cutter who knows this cut of diamond. There are people here who have rehabbed old diamonds before, so I am sure we can make some recommendations. I can check around tomorrow with a vendor who sells these. I also think it is closer to 100 years old than 50.
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+1 Don't have it recut!!! It might be worth a lot more than you think and the appraiser believes because there are people who love an OEC. Wait and see what DS2006 says.
 
+2 to leave as-is with some rehabbing. the stone is likely 90+ years old. There are many people on this forum that can help you (single stone in LA has rehabbed some diamonds for Pricescope members). Jewels by Grace accepts consignment pieces and she will likely be able to recommend a diamond expert to repolish/rehab the diamond. I would not recommend recutting it to a modern stone- what makes it special is the current cut.
 
Did the appraiser mention what inclusions make up the clarity? I think some inclusions make it less suitable for a recut. For instance, some feathers can extend during the recut process.
 
A 2.20+ M OEC that is eyeclean will go for a lot more than that. You should send it to Grace at Jewels by Grace or Erica At Love Affair Diamonds and get them to sell it for you on consignment - they specialise in Old Cuts like this one can give you a price on rehabbing the girdle and anything else that needs to be done and get it appraised for you to make sure it is not lower in colour than an L. Even taking out their fees and the fees to get a proper valuation done on the stone and any chips taken out I think you could possibly get more than $3000.00 in your pocket unless it is way lower than an M in colour.
 
Your jeweller is smoking something. But if he's selling 2.22 for anywhere close to what he's buying them for I want his contact details!

If your diamond is as described it should easily fetch more than $2,000, even if you sell to a vendor. Similar carat, colour and clarity seem to be around $10K USD at internet vendors I'm aware of. I'm aware you don't have a cert so that's a downside. It could come back much lower in colour and clarity but if it's as you described, I'd be shocked if you couldn't get at least double what the jeweller you met with told you.

ETA: I couldn't find a quick exact comparison easily, not surprising really, but these are the diamonds I was using to compare.
LAD - 2.34 N SI1 for $9,950 http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/on-hold-2-34ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-n-si1/
JBG - 2.43 O/P VS2 for $10,900 http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-43ct-old-european-cut-diamond-est-o-p-vs2-clarity
JBG - 2.00 Q SI1 for $9,950 http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/2-00ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-q-si1
OWD - 2.01 L SI1 for $10,320 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1963&SHAPE=EU
 
Well, I'll be the dissenting voice here. If (and it's a big if) it can be re-cut, I'd get it re-cut by GOG into an August Vintage style and then consign it through them. Stones of that size/clarity/color are going for around 12k on their site, and if you don't want the stone for yourself, I'd be going for the highest sale price possible.
 
Sure, keep it the same cutting style, but polishing/rehabbing that size diamond somewhere reputable could cost $300 or more. Give it that service.

Jeweller is lowballing you. I would paypal you $3000 today, no rehab required. Probably worth double that.
 
You are getting good advice here. Unless the damage is severe and a recut would result in a SUBSTANTIALLY smaller stone, the info you are getting from the jeweler is very questionable. You should certainly get a second opinion from an expert who does not have any interest or potential interest in the stone. I agree it makes very good sense to get a consultation from someone who has experience in vintage cuts before considering a re-cut to a modern round.
 
I’m going to land in between. The difference is going have to do with your marketing strategy.

For starters, no, don’t get it cut.

If you’re going to be selling to a dealer, sell it as is and let them deal with whatever rehab may be required. They can deal with the lab too.

If you’re going to consign it to a dealer, talk to them first, let them see the stone and let them make suggestions on any work to be done. They are your partners and this is part of what you're hiring them for.

If you’re going to directly retail it, consider a polish job and a cert. You need a lot better advice than a quick, off the cuff appraisal to make this decision wisely. Grading makes a big difference. Talk to a pro, and talk to a pro who isn’t trying to buy it.

By the way, if that grading is anywhere near accurate, $2000 is very low.
 
$2k is low even if it's an I1

I agree with Neil that a repolish ( cleanup not a recut) and a trip to GIA will be your best bet regardless if you want to sell to a dealer or private individual.
 
Thanks a million, everyone, for your variety of well thought opinions. It sounds like almost regardless, it is worth the effort to polish and GIA. I live about a half an hour away from Carlsbad, so I think I will go to GIA and say hello.

The jeweler did not say anything about the nature of the inclusions. I'm a little puzzled by how much "damage" appears in the picture. To my eye, it looks pretty clean on the outside; most roughness is on the girdle.

The stone is 0.33" diameter and 0.30" high.

Can anyone recommend a place in or around San Diego to get it polished?

I'll bump the thread with the GIA results.


P.S. You all are spot on about the jeweler's conflict of interest in opinion. As soon as he started asking me how much I thought it was worth, I knew his opinions couldn't be taken too seriously. But it got me started.
 
The jeweller will always have a conflict of interest if he's trying to purchase from you. Of course he wants to buy low and sell high. And if you want to sell then the jeweller's interest is a good thing! The low-balling that jeweller did is incredible though. Rather that making you want to sell to him it probably just put you off him. As an individual I doubt you'll ever reach the price that jewellers will get with their ability to market, established business name and trust, and return policy, but that jeweller was having you on with his pricing!
 
Eric_in_SD|1426012254|3845064 said:
Thanks a million, everyone, for your variety of well thought opinions. It sounds like almost regardless, it is worth the effort to polish and GIA. I live about a half an hour away from Carlsbad, so I think I will go to GIA and say hello.

The jeweler did not say anything about the nature of the inclusions. I'm a little puzzled by how much "damage" appears in the picture. To my eye, it looks pretty clean on the outside; most roughness is on the girdle.

The stone is 0.33" diameter and 0.30" high.

Can anyone recommend a place in or around San Diego to get it polished?

I'll bump the thread with the GIA results.


P.S. You all are spot on about the jeweler's conflict of interest in opinion. As soon as he started asking me how much I thought it was worth, I knew his opinions couldn't be taken too seriously. But it got me started.
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Just to be clear, I am not sure anyone suggested a GIA report as a first step. That would be a valuable document to have after recutting to help establish the value of the stone if you are selling it. I think first is the independent expert consultation. That will get you close to what a GIA report would tell you at this stage. Plus you will get a better picture of the course you will follow from there, especially if your expert has some knowledge of the market for vintage cuts.
 
Here's what I would suggest you do. Contact Erica of Love Affair Diamonds. She is one of our vendors that specializes in antique diamonds. She also offers consignment of diamonds and jewelry and she has the lowest fees I know of. She can recommend what needs to be done to rehab the stone to get the most from the sale. Then she can get it graded (at your expense for the grading and rehab) and then offer it for sale for you.

http://loveaffairdiamonds.com/

Consignment fees and terms:

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/consignment-services/
 
Hi there! As someone who LOVES these old cuts, I too, implore that you consider NOT re-cutting the diamond!

Its my experience that a lot of people would buy an M-colored old cut than those who would an M-colored round brilliant. People are more accepting and embrace the warmth and tint in the old cuts more than they do the MRBs.

In terms of the value you were offered, I will say that I am taken aback - that is unbelievably low.

Many vendors known to PS can assist in getting the stone repolished too - several are in DT LA, which would make it convenient for you! Single Stone comes to mind.

Post-repolish, you can have the stone certed at GIA (45 mins from where you are?) straight away.

Good luck, and like the others above mentioned - you are getting great advise from these folks!
 
Thanks. I see your points. It's a vintage diamond, so I'm better off selling it through someone who specializes in such, rather than trying to sell it myself.

Los Angeles wouldn't be too bad; I drive through several times a year.

I had no idea vintage cuts were especially valued. I had read the threads on here about not recutting old diamonds, but for some reason I didn't think that applied to this stone.

Let me also see if I can get some better pictures.

Thanks again!
 
Since you're in SoCal, I'd highly recommend making a trip up to the LA area. Single Stone in LA deals with antique diamonds and settings. Ari (of Single Stone) has always been highly helpful in deciding whether or not to rehab a diamond, I believe he rehabbed Kelpie's diamond (an OEC too). Grace of Jewels by Grace is in LA as well and might be worth asking her for a rehab guy as well-- I had the culet on my OEC enlarged with her cutter as I was not pleased with the super tiny one it originally had.

After a rehab you can always get a GIA cert (I dropped my diamond off at GIA and had the same day turn around service) since you're only 30 minutes away from Carlsbad.
 
Eric_in_SD|1426022765|3845163 said:
Thanks. I see your point. It's a vintage diamond, so I'm better off selling it through someone who specializes in such, rather than trying to sell it myself.

Let me also see if I can get some better pictures.
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If you're going to consign through a dealer, be it Grace or anyone else, let them take the pictures unless you just like playing with it. As you've discovered, it's harder than it looks. =)

Also consult with them on what sorts of repairs, if any, you need to do before sending it to the lab. You save a step, a bunch of time and some lab fees if you address this first. Experience with this is part of the value they're bringing to the table.
 
Hi Eric,



IMHO...you have a choice....clean it up to a spectacular OEC or re-cut to a modern shape. In San Diego, I would recommend speaking to Ryan Krasner at Harold Stevens Diamond & Jewellery Studio or Rich Koll at Charles Koll Jewelers.
 
Oh, how about H. Moradi in La Jolla?
 
I personally think M color is going to be easier to sell in an OEC than a modern round brilliant. I would never recut it into a round brilliant unless it was so damaged that it wouldn't make sense to recut into an OEC (and hopefully that is not the case). I am hoping the rehab will keep the diamond as original as possible.
 
You've received excellent advice here. I would most certainly not recut it into an RB. A 2+ carat M range OEC will be more valuable and marketable than a smaller RB in that color range, IMO. But a little repolish to fix any nicks or damage might be helpful, if needed.

Good luck with your decision! OECs are special - I hope you keep it intact.
 
FWIW, Harold Stevens Jewelers (downtown San Diego) is having a Single Stone trunk show this Friday and Saturday... maybe call up to Single Stone and talk with Ari on Wed or Thurs and see if you could arrange a look-see apt with Single Stone/Harold Stevens on one of those trunk-show days?

http://www.haroldstevens.com/news.php?story=vintage-trunk-show-2015
 
It was fun trying but I think I need a light box.

img_0911.jpgimg_0912_0.jpg
 
HeartingDiamonds|1426021267|3845153 said:
Hi there! As someone who LOVES these old cuts, I too, implore that you consider NOT re-cutting the diamond!

Its my experience that a lot of people would buy an M-colored old cut than those who would an M-colored round brilliant. People are more accepting and embrace the warmth and tint in the old cuts more than they do the MRBs.

In terms of the value you were offered, I will say that I am taken aback - that is unbelievably low.

Many vendors known to PS can assist in getting the stone repolished too - several are in DT LA, which would make it convenient for you! Single Stone comes to mind.

Post-repolish, you can have the stone certed at GIA (45 mins from where you are?) straight away.

Good luck, and like the others above mentioned - you are getting great advise from these folks!
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I'm 100% in agreement with the above advice. There is something very special about old cut diamonds and their warmth. For me to say that, it's rare. I'm usually a no lower than an F colour kind of gal.
 
Another oldie lover here agreeing with the advice you've been given so far.

Good luck selling it, if that's what you decide to do.
 
Personally, I would cringe at even a repolish. Girdle nicks are to be expected on 100 years old stones. Some of us like our stones as-is. :)

Your stone looks like it has a nice small table and pretty cut. I'm not seeing the damage that would make me want to lose a bruted girdle or carat weight. But you should get an expert opinion.

Rather than drive, I'd send the stone to Erica at Love Affaire Dianonds or Grace at Jewels by Grace for consignment and steps towards that process which will likely involve GIA certification but possibly not a repolish. Both vendors have stellar reputations for their experience with and stewardship of old cut stones.
 
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