To recut an OEC or not? Help!

[valmanin]

As you may know, I have an OEC on hold at OWD. I love everything about it size, color, except that I feel like the faceting could be crisper and wish the table was smaller because I think that the 52% table kind of gives more room for noticing error...if that makes any sense. It just doesn't look as lively and even as the 2.71 I had before. For reference:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/3-33-oec.188022/

Previously, I had been looking at a lovely 2.71 OEC that had gorgeous faceting and was very lively...nice small table (47%). It was too small for me though so I have ruled it out.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...honkers-could-one-of-these-be-the-one.187743/

So, basically, I wanted to combine two stones. Adam, knowing what my dilemma is, talked to his cutter, and they will take the table in a couple percentage points if I want them to. He thinks it will only lose about 5 pts. or so. I think they would sharpen everything up a bit too. This scares me, but I am also intrigued. It is hard to find a perfect stone in your price range like this. So, they wouldn't take it in from the sides I don't think...wouldn't lose any diameter. But that makes me think it will lose a lot of crown angle/height. Adam said you would barely notice and keeps saying its really not a big deal. He thinks it could just make the stone look more like the 2.71 which I like. And he has offered to do it himself...meaning I don't have to pay for it or buy the stone if I don't like it afterwards.

I am torn because while I am not a purist when it comes to antiques, I don't want to ruin a perfectly lovely OEC (even if it is not perfect enough for me). I worry that it will end up with a smaller table but lower crown and that might look weird. At the same time, I have a soft spot for 3.33 and would love it to be my stone if the mindclean issues could be cleaned up.

Information from the EGL report:
3.33 ct
9.4x9.37x5.91
Depth: 63%
Table: 52%
Crown: 17.9%
Pavillion: 41%

Thoughts?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I probably wouldn't do it. The crown heights on the two I had here were close to 20%, so I am not sure I'd want to recut the crown. Does the pavilion need recutting?

 

[valmanin]

I probably wouldn't do it. The crown heights on the two I had here were close to 20%, so I am not sure I'd want to recut the crown. Does the pavilion need recutting?

Good question? How do you know if a pavilion needs recutting?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Two reasons I would want a pavilion recut or rehabbed: facet junctions are worn and need polishing at least, facet pattern is not symmetrical. You need to have crown and pavilion angles that work together. I have asked Jonathan before about recutting a diamond into an AVR and it has to have angles that are enough to cut further. Not sure if all these guys take all that into consideration, but it does matter in the outcome (performance of the stone).

 

[mandasand]

I think if you are looking for perfection then you should get an AVR. If you recut that gorgeous OEC because it's not quite perfect then perhaps you should get a new cut antique style diamond? Just my thoughts.

I have an OEC and I love the character of my little diamond. I love that it was cut by hand. I love that it is a K color and looks gleaming white compared to the MRB I had that was a higher color. I love it's super high crown so if I ever take it to a jeweler, I would not even need to loop it to know it's mine. No, it's not perfect, but for me that is okay.

 

[yennyfire]

I think if you are looking for perfection then you should get an AVR. If you recut that gorgeous OEC because it's not quite perfect then perhaps you should get a new cut antique style diamond? Just my thoughts.

I have an OEC and I love the character of my little diamond. I love that it was cut by hand. I love that it is a K color and looks gleaming white compared to the MRB I had that was a higher color. I love it's super high crown so if I ever take it to a jeweler, I would not even need to loop it to know it's mine. No, it's not perfect, but for me that is okay.

+1 For me, part of the charm of an oec is its "imperfection". Of course, if it isn't pleasing to my eye, it's a moot point, but I love the charm of my hand cut stones. If you want H&A like perfection in an oec, go for the AVR.

 

[missy]

I'm going to take a different point of view. I too love an OEC with all of its imperfectionsl -just like people-none of us perfect and all of us unique in our own way. However, if Adam is so generously offering to make it a little more to your taste, with no risk to you at all, I see no reason not to let his bench tweak it a bit and see if it becomes the "perfect" stone for you. It still won't be perfect but it might be perfect for you after Adam's bench reworks it a little. After all, we're not talking a major rehab here. It is an extremely generous offer on Adam's part with no risk to you at all. It's almost too good to pass up if you think this might just do the trick. And without the AVR premium may I add.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Let me clarify that I would only recut an old stone that was not pleasing to my eye (poorly cut). There are several here who have OEC's with amazing cuts, and there would be zero reason to touch them. Those I would leave alone other than to do a little girdle rehab if the girdle is very thin, for example. I'd do a little polishing if there were abraded facet junctions.

But Missy is right, if they think it would benefit the stone to try to cut the crown and reduce the table size and you have no obligation, then why not? But I would think about the whole stone and decide whether it was the one for you except that the table was too big.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This is off your topic, but part of the reason I went forward with an AVR was that I didn't find that antique stones of similar quality were all that much less when sold at retail.

Example (EGL H VS1):

http://oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1254&SHAPE=EU

Are they taking a huge discount off their listed prices? Or maybe they discount larger or lower color stones more?

 

[two_little_birds]

I think if you are looking for perfection then you should get an AVR. If you recut that gorgeous OEC because it's not quite perfect then perhaps you should get a new cut antique style diamond? Just my thoughts.

I have an OEC and I love the character of my little diamond. I love that it was cut by hand. I love that it is a K color and looks gleaming white compared to the MRB I had that was a higher color. I love it's super high crown so if I ever take it to a jeweler, I would not even need to loop it to know it's mine. No, it's not perfect, but for me that is okay.

+1 For me, part of the charm of an oec is its "imperfection". Of course, if it isn't pleasing to my eye, it's a moot point, but I love the charm of my hand cut stones. If you want H&A like perfection in an oec, go for the AVR.

+2, I agree 100%

Perhaps you're not going for the AVR because of cost / size?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I suspect this change will make no difference to the optics of the diamond, since such a small change in the table size is not a big contributor to the facet patterning. I hate to see the diamond changed for no compelling reason when it already had excellent optics. You would need to tweak the pavilion and other angles to change its appearance noticably, but I also don't see the reason to do that.

That said, I think many large old cuts have already been refurbished. OWD seems to have a tonne of old cut diamonds with no girdle damage, no nicks or chips, pretty good symmetry... your decision likely makes no difference to the life of this stone.

 

[arkieb1]

Hi,

I was going to ask you if you decided to buy the 2.71, an AVR or go for the bigger 3.33. I think Jon is currently trying to cut some larger AVRs if that is at all helpful, you could ask him.... If recutting the 3.33 won't cost or pose any risk to you then maybe it is worth doing, having said that if it comes back and you still don't like it then the purists here would probably frown about messing with the character of an original OEC.

It's taken me almost a year to find a larger OEC that I am considering buying so waiting for something right to come along is another option, and even then, I am still weighing up the pros (size and price per carat) versus the cons (not as well cut or as perfectly round, less light return, etc) of it compared to buying a AVR.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, do whatever feels right for you!!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I suspect this change will make no difference to the optics of the diamond, since such a small change in the table size is not a big contributor to the facet patterning. I hate to see the diamond changed for no compelling reason when it already had excellent optics. You would need to tweak the pavilion and other angles to change its appearance noticably, but I also don't see the reason to do that.

That said, I think many large old cuts have already been refurbished. OWD seems to have a tonne of old cut diamonds with no girdle damage, no nicks or chips, pretty good symmetry... your decision likely makes no difference to the life of this stone.

Lightbulb moment....of course they probably rehab stones that need it in order to sell them! So there are no guarantees that any of the stones are untouched since they were originally cut. That should make you feel better if you do decide to do a little rehab on any old stone!

 

[ericad]

No no no no no no no no no. Please and thank you.

 

[arkieb1]

Did you consider buying the 2.71 and putting a halo around it? You get the stone you like and the size you want or is the colour of it that you didn't like?

 

[valmanin]

I have read all your comments and thank you each for your opinion. I have decided not to do anything to the 3.33. It wasn't sitting well with me anyway. Again, I'm not really a purist, but I felt kind of protective of M...such a pretty stone as it is.

I will come back and answer/respond to each of you after putting kiddos to bed.

 

[valmanin]

I think if you are looking for perfection then you should get an AVR. If you recut that gorgeous OEC because it's not quite perfect then perhaps you should get a new cut antique style diamond? Just my thoughts.

I have an OEC and I love the character of my little diamond. I love that it was cut by hand. I love that it is a K color and looks gleaming white compared to the MRB I had that was a higher color. I love it's super high crown so if I ever take it to a jeweler, I would not even need to loop it to know it's mine. No, it's not perfect, but for me that is okay.

+1 For me, part of the charm of an oec is its "imperfection". Of course, if it isn't pleasing to my eye, it's a moot point, but I love the charm of my hand cut stones. If you want H&A like perfection in an oec, go for the AVR.

+2, I agree 100%

Perhaps you're not going for the AVR because of cost / size?

Understood. I think I may have made it sound like I am looking for perfection...when I used the word perfect I just meant perfect for me. Just wanted to clarify.

I am still considering an AVR, but I do really like the old cuts. Not sure if I want that kind of perfection. Not sure if I could get one in my price range too. Jon is looking into it for me, but I feel pretty doubtful.

I love the character of old stones too...that's why I am looking at them. I do prefer them to be on the fantastically cut side though. It's a balance.

 

[valmanin]

I'm going to take a different point of view. I too love an OEC with all of its imperfectionsl -just like people-none of us perfect and all of us unique in our own way. However, if Adam is so generously offering to make it a little more to your taste, with no risk to you at all, I see no reason not to let his bench tweak it a bit and see if it becomes the "perfect" stone for you. It still won't be perfect but it might be perfect for you after Adam's bench reworks it a little. After all, we're not talking a major rehab here. It is an extremely generous offer on Adam's part with no risk to you at all. It's almost too good to pass up if you think this might just do the trick. And without the AVR premium may I add.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Thank you, Missy, for giving me the other side. I think for me the deciding factor is that it does sound like major rehab to me...although I know NOTHING about stone cutting.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Good!

As a rule I do not like to recut old stones unless there is a very good reason -- damage, fugly cut (like super duper fugly, not just imperfect).

Your right stone will come along. Better to keep looking that try to change an already gorgeous diamond to suit your own wants and needs.

 

[valmanin]

This is off your topic, but part of the reason I went forward with an AVR was that I didn't find that antique stones of similar quality were all that much less when sold at retail.

Example (EGL H VS1):

http://oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1254&SHAPE=EU

Are they taking a huge discount off their listed prices? Or maybe they discount larger or lower color stones more?

I think sometimes there is some wiggle room...probably depends on the stone.

 

[valmanin]

Good!

As a rule I do not like to recut old stones unless there is a very good reason -- damage, fugly cut (like super duper fugly, not just imperfect).

Your right stone will come along. Better to keep looking that try to change an already gorgeous diamond to suit your own wants and needs.

I agree.

I am getting a little impatient though...

 

[valmanin]

Did you consider buying the 2.71 and putting a halo around it? You get the stone you like and the size you want or is the colour of it that you didn't like?

I thought about it...for a second. I think halos are lovely but I think it's not so much the finger coverage I want as much as the large stone with big faceting.

Sounds like from your earlier post we are in the same boat. I can't wait to hear what you decide to do! You have a stone you are currently considering? Would love to hear about it.

 

[valmanin]

No no no no no no no no no. Please and thank you.

Point taken.

 

[arkieb1]

Yep, same boat indeed, I have been searching for what seems like ages. I have seen few stones that I would actually buy, but they do come along now and then. And I can't blame you for wanting a big old girl rather than a smaller stone with a halo, that is my preference as well. Of course a big old girl in a halo rocks too!!!

I currently have a stone on hold for me while it goes to GIA for certification and verification. I won't know if I will purchase it or not until that comes back so I guess it's a bit secret squirrel until then.... If decided not to buy it then waiting to see what Jon comes up with is the next option, unless the JBEG girls find something new and amazing. I will let you know more when I know what I am doing.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Gosh, you girls are making me want the larger stone again talking about the big beautiful facets!

I am totally with you on wanting a well cut OEC. I seriously love the charm of old stones but I appreciate master craftsmanship no matter the age of the stone. I think you are wise not to alter this stone as it is just not "the one" for you! There is a better one out there for you!!!

 

[arkieb1]

"Gosh, you girls are making me want the larger stone again talking about the big beautiful facets!

DS you crack me up (in a nice way). I have just spent the past few days seriously drooling at that 2.29 that you posted AND because of you, having serious doubts about the stone I have on hold as a result of that!!!! Damn fickle creatures the lot of us.

 

[missy]

I'm going to take a different point of view. I too love an OEC with all of its imperfectionsl -just like people-none of us perfect and all of us unique in our own way. However, if Adam is so generously offering to make it a little more to your taste, with no risk to you at all, I see no reason not to let his bench tweak it a bit and see if it becomes the "perfect" stone for you. It still won't be perfect but it might be perfect for you after Adam's bench reworks it a little. After all, we're not talking a major rehab here. It is an extremely generous offer on Adam's part with no risk to you at all. It's almost too good to pass up if you think this might just do the trick. And without the AVR premium may I add.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Thank you, Missy, for giving me the other side. I think for me the deciding factor is that it does sound like major rehab to me...although I know NOTHING about stone cutting.

You made the right decision then. Your perfect stone will come along valmanin. I know it will. And in the meantime enjoy the search!

 

[valmanin]

Yep, same boat indeed, I have been searching for what seems like ages. I have seen few stones that I would actually buy, but they do come along now and then. And I can't blame you for wanting a big old girl rather than a smaller stone with a halo, that is my preference as well. Of course a big old girl in a halo rocks too!!!

I currently have a stone on hold for me while it goes to GIA for certification and verification. I won't know if I will purchase it or not until that comes back so I guess it's a bit secret squirrel until then.... If decided not to buy it then waiting to see what Jon comes up with is the next option, unless the JBEG girls find something new and amazing. I will let you know more when I know what I am doing.

Well, hopefully we will both find our stones SOON! Can't wait to hear about your mystery stone.

 

[valmanin]

Gosh, you girls are making me want the larger stone again talking about the big beautiful facets!

I am totally with you on wanting a well cut OEC. I seriously love the charm of old stones but I appreciate master craftsmanship no matter the age of the stone. I think you are wise not to alter this stone as it is just not "the one" for you! There is a better one out there for you!!!

Thanks DS! I truly value your opinion. I hear you about appreciating the master craftsmanship side too. Both the antique and the newly cut are amazing in their own right!

 

[valmanin]

"Gosh, you girls are making me want the larger stone again talking about the big beautiful facets!

DS you crack me up (in a nice way). I have just spent the past few days seriously drooling at that 2.29 that you posted AND because of you, having serious doubts about the stone I have on hold as a result of that!!!! Damn fickle creatures the lot of us.

No kidding!!! I am all over the place. OEC, antique cushion, smaller, lower color, bigger, higher color, higher budget, lower budget, higher budget, true antique, AVR...AAAHHHHH!!! STop the madness.

Thank God I will be totally out of money after buying the stone because if I had some left I can't even imagine how the setting search would go.