Thoughts on those two 1 ct. VS2's?

[Wallyhenry]

Hello All,

I was hoping for some opinions on these 2 stones for an engagement ring:

Stone 1- 1 ct G VS2:
Priced at $6500 USD
6.47-6.5 x 3.9 mm
triple excellent
No fluorescence
Currently there are no ideal scopes, ASET or H&A images. There is a video that I couldn't manage to upload..



Stone 2 - 1.01 ct H VS2:
Priced at $6900 USD
6.45-6.46x3.99 mm
triple excellent
No fluorescence
On the notes for this one it states that the clarity is upgraded.



Thanks in advance!

 

[tyty333]

The second one would be my choice. Higher crown with corresponding lower pavilion and smaller table...very nice. They will both be "nice" stones.
The first one will tend towards white light return with the lower crown/bigger table and the second one should produce more fire with the higher
crown.

Have you seen these stones in person?

Edit...the first stone is a BIC stone and the second stone is a TIC stone.
This link provides more information on the two.
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm

 

[rockysalamander]

On stone 2, you say "On the notes for this one it states that the clarity is upgraded." What did you take this to mean? Is this a clarity enhanced aka fracture filled stone?

 

[Wallyhenry]

@tyty333 thanks for your thoughts... I read the education and some forums about BIC vs TIC but I couldn’t relate to how much of a visual difference this translates to. Have you had any experience comparing the two “cuts” in person? Is it true that most BIC cuts are better for earrings or would there be any integrity issues with BIC in stone 1 because of the lower crown angle (would it look more flat)?

Is the second stone worth the extra cost (and a downgrade in color from G to H) just for the TIC aspect?

I haven’t seen either stone in person. Just images/videos. I managed to track down the H&A for the first stone (1 ct G VS2):



@rockysalamander the way “clarity upgraded” for stone 2 was explained to me was that the jeweler inspected it and thought that despite the report saying VS2 for clarity he thought it looked better. So hypothetically the price point should be for VS2 when it looks like VS1 or above... I’ll check with the jeweler if the clarity was enhanced. That’s an excellent point. Your insights are much appreciated!

What are your thoughts after looking at the H&A for stone 1?

 

[whitewave]

Clarity enhanced is a definite no.

 

[Wallyhenry]

Clarity enhanced is a definite no.

The wording was “upgraded clarity” I’m checking if it has been artificially enhanced in some way. Can you elaborate as to why this would make it a definite no?

 

[whitewave]

The wording was “upgraded clarity” I’m checking if it has been artificially enhanced in some way. Can you elaborate as to why this would make it a definite no?

Human intervention fixing a crack... generally speaking, it is a no. The people in the trade would have to give opinions on specific issues...

 

[rockysalamander]

They use an epoxy like substance to fill a void or crack. That void can be natural, but make rhe stone I2 or3 or lower, or they drill out black carbon.They have significant durability issues. They should be sold for hundress not thousands of dollars.

 

[rockysalamander]

http://selenediam.com/OurGrading.aspx

Maybe a trade member can comment on this grading system.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Not likely to be clarity enhanced. If they are Triple Ex that indicates they have GIA reports.

"upgraded clarity" typically means that the manufacturer got higher grade than expected from the lab.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

http://selenediam.com/OurGrading.aspx

Maybe a trade member can comment on this grading system.

This is a communication system that is similar to what many manufacturers are using today to describe diamonds in greater detail than what is available on the lab cert alone.

 

[Wallyhenry]

@rockysalamander Thanks for the link! Great find! @Texas Leaguer that's precisely where this information was obtained from. This quote is from the clarity section on the link:

"Additional comment for Certified stone.
1.If our (SDGS) Clarity grading is VS-2 and laboratory gives us SI-1 certificate, we have to specify the, exclusive clarity in the comment column.2.If our (SDGS) clarity grading is SI-1 and the laboratory gives us a VS-2 certificate, we have to specify the upgraded clarity in the comment column."

On the report for the 1.01 H VS2 it said "upgraded clarity"

Based on the above, does this mean that the VS2 from the GIA report was actually observed by SDGS as SI-1? i.e. upon inspection by third party it turned out to be actually worse than what was mentioned on GIA report? Am I interpreting this correctly?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

@rockysalamander Thanks for the link! Great find! @Texas Leaguer that's precisely where this information was obtained from. This quote is from the clarity section on the link:

"Additional comment for Certified stone.
1.If our (SDGS) Clarity grading is VS-2 and laboratory gives us SI-1 certificate, we have to specify the, exclusive clarity in the comment column.2.If our (SDGS) clarity grading is SI-1 and the laboratory gives us a VS-2 certificate, we have to specify the upgraded clarity in the comment column."

On the report for the 1.01 H VS2 it said "upgraded clarity"

Based on the above, does this mean that the VS2 from the GIA report was actually observed by SDGS as SI-1? i.e. upon inspection by third party it turned out to be actually worse than what was mentioned on GIA report? Am I interpreting this correctly?

It means the manufacture thought it was probably and Si1 but it got a favorable grade at GIA. In other words, it's probably a borderline VS2.

 

[Wallyhenry]

@Texas Leaguer that’s great information! It was explained to me as a borderline VS1 by the jeweler. I wonder if the jeweler was confused about the wording....

So based on the above what are your thoughts about pursuing either one of these stones? Should I keep looking?

 

[rockysalamander]

Between these two, I'd take #2, the TIC stone for the reasons in the info. materials. To me, yes, I would pay more for the "look" I prefer. Unless you or you intended are very color sensitive, you will be highly unlikely to see tint on an H. "Most" people notice is starting at GIA I.

But, if budget allowed (assuming around $7k), I'd rather buy one of these for the slight increase in size and super-ideal performance.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802924.htm, $7154

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816375.htm, $7049
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3833705.htm, $7102

 

[Wallyhenry]

Between these two, I'd take #2, the TIC stone for the reasons in the info. materials. To me, yes, I would pay more for the "look" I prefer. Unless you or you intended are very color sensitive, you will be highly unlikely to see tint on an H. "Most" people notice is starting at GIA I.

But, if budget allowed (assuming around $7k), I'd rather buy one of these for the slight increase in size and super-ideal performance.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802924.htm, $7154

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816375.htm, $7049
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3833705.htm, $7102

Unfortunate for me, she has a sensitivity to yellow tinge in the stones. When we went to tiffany's and looked at a Tiffany's "H". She could certainly see the yellow in the diamond.

Those are some nice stones, but unfortunately outside my budget (which is $6500 USD).

For the sake of argument, what makes those 3 stones "better" than say one of the two below which are much cheaper with better specs and ideal-super ideal cuts:

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.03-ct-G-VS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D40244310 "Affinity" cut which is equivalent to super ideal $6161

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3879590.htm $6226

 

[rockysalamander]

Below are the answers to your questions. But, the point I was trying to make, apparently poorly, was that it is not realistic to hold a non-super ideal diamond to the same light performance as a super-ideal. The stone you posted is better than many on the market, but has some leakage and asymmetry. Since you have not seen the stone, it is hard to say if your eyes will detect that or not. If you want the guarantee performance like you see in WF, BGD and HPD -- then a super-ideal may be for you. Of, if you can find a WF Expert Selection, JA True Hearts, some B2C or any of the other 'selected ones' they may have all the images you need up front.

On color, while your GF could see the color on a H -- did she find it unpleasant? A lot of us have diamonds with tint and it does not bother us, even if we see it. In fact, some of us specifically like warmer diamonds.

Here are some more options to consider if you want to continue on the non-super ideal pathway. All of these will require images to help determine if they are better (or worse) than your choices. JA will only give you 3 images from a single email address.

• https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3391834 (strong flour, so just ask JA gemologist to check for milkiness/oiliness, but this is bigger and has good numbers)
• https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3224383 (seems like a very bright and lively stone in the video, good numbers, ask gemologist about flour and clouds)

I'm not sure BN will give out ASET or IS if they stone is not in house or paid for, but it is worth asking.

• https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09204681
• https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08953565

No more images needed,
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ags-bl-104095241009#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/0/
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816365.htm (super-ideal)

What is SuperIdeal (start reading here: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...actually-better-than-vs2.232674/#post-4202177 -- post 14-22

Adiamore Affinity is not super-ideal. They are simply a selection of diamonds from the open market that meet certain criteria (Polish & Symmetry Ideal on AGSL or EX by GIA). Its pure marketing bull as they do nothing more than rely on GIA and AGS cut grading. I've yet to see a stone with that label that is a true H&A. The stone you selected may be better or worse than the ones you posted. The numbers look good, so it is worth pursuing if they will provide images and videa (ideally).

The WF diamonds you linked to is from virtual inventory. It is also not super ideal. It will be similar to your #1 with a larger table and shallow crown generating more white-light vs. fire. The stone will need to be reviewed by a gemologist due to the Clouds and internal graining to be sure they don't affect performance. WF may be able to get an IS or ASET, but the stone is overseas so you'll have to ask.