Thoughts on this UPGRADE diamond ??

[lynne160]

Measurements: 8.09 - 8.17 x 4.93 mm

Carat Weight: 2.03

Color Grade: E

Clarity Grade: VS2

Cut Grade: Good

Proportions:

Depth: 60.6 %

Table: 57 %

Crown Angle: 37°

Crown Height: 16 %

Pavilion Angle: 39.6°

Pavilion Depth: 41.5 %

Star length: 55 %

Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Very Thin to Medium, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Good

Fluorescence: None

Comments: Clouds are not shown.

 

[lynne160]

when i enter this into the HCA the x is on the bottom of the chart..what does this mean?

 

[chrono]

OMG! You have a 1.1 FIC!

You've got a rare beauty. These stones are hard to find and will give off lots of fire. Most cut grading systems down grade these stones (as seen by the HCA chart which shows the AGS and GIA ideal boxes) so cutters will not produce them. AGS give them low grades because they need to have shallower pavilion angles

Quote:
Fiery Ideal Cuts (FIC) have more fire or spectral color and appear to have more facets and scintillation because of the increased interaction between the steeper crown facets that direct your view deeper and further into the pavilion.

For more reading:
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm

ETA
There 2 things that worry me a little:
1. Very thin girdle - being vthin means it might be more prone to chipping
2. Good symmetry - no idea how obvious the "offnesss" might be.

I would recommend an Idealscope to back up the HCA and to check the symmetry.

 

[musey]

Date: 10/4/2007 2:29:00 PM
Author: Chrono
OMG! You have a 1.1 FIC!

You''ve got a rare beauty. These stones are hard to find and will give off lots of fire. Most cut grading systems down grade these stones (as seen by the HCA chart which shows the AGS and GIA ideal boxes) so cutters will not produce them. AGS give them low grades because they need to have shallower pavilion angles


Quote:

Fiery Ideal Cuts (FIC) have more fire or spectral color and appear to have more facets and scintillation because of the increased interaction between the steeper crown facets that direct your view deeper and further into the pavilion.


For more reading:

http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm

I wanna see I wanna see!! Lynne give us a pic, purty please?

 

[lynne160]

But it isn''t ideal cut.....

 

[chrono]

What do you mean by "it's not an ideal cut"? Are you saying you are looking for an AGS 0 stone? Have you seen this E stone? What is your opinion? This fits my personal idea of ideal cut, which is why I'm asking all these questions. I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for.

FIC = Fiery Ideal cut

 

[lynne160]

the cut is not graded ideal on the gia cert it is graded as Good. Should this be a concern ? Is the diamond worth less?

 

[chrono]

GIA certs do not have "ideal"; I believe their top grading is "excellent". This stone is taking a slight hit on the GIA grading for the Very Thin girdle because it is a durability issue. Stones with a VThin girdle will never get the GIA Ex rating as explained here:
http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/06_estimating_a_cut_grade.html

As an example, here's another gorgeous diamond that received a VG rating from GIA because of a VThin girdle too.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-excellent-vs-gia-very-good.51106/

ETA
I think GIA is also giving the cut grading a ding because of the Good symmetry. I have no idea how obvious the "offnesss" might be. Therefore I would recommend an Idealscope to back up the HCA and to check the symmetry.

 

[lynne160]

thanks from all of the postings i have been reading on this website..everyone seems to purchase IDEAL cuts...

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 10/4/2007 3:31:37 PM
Author: lynne160
thanks from all of the postings i have been reading on this website..everyone seems to purchase IDEAL cuts...

HI:

Lynne, what are YOU looking for? What is important (aka parameters) to you?

cheers--Sharon

 

[lynne160]

ideally i am looking for a diamond that has fire and shines under any lighting conditions with a budget of about 30-35k

 

[chrono]

Okay, so we''ll start narrowing down what you want: Super duper excellent/ideal cut.
Budget:$30 to $35K
Carat weight?
Colour?
Clarity?

 

[Rhino]

Just reading this thread. Low scoring HCA stones that have odd proportions always interest me. I input these parameters into DiamCalc and come up with the following model attached to this post. As a daily hands of user of various technologies that grade for "light performance" and comparing their visual results I advocate to not place too much stock in any one given technology.

My professional advice is to *proceed with extreme caution*. Based on my experience comparing visual results with HCA results and DiamCalc results this stone appears to be a diamond that will perform beautifully in spot lighting environments but can be a real dog (and I mean WOOF) in more common lighting environments. So in jewlelry store lighting it would look great but take it outside in the shade or diffuse type lighting and it''ll go dead on you with poor brightness. If you havn''t already, download the free Gem Advisor software, open this model alongside a GIA Ex or AGS Ideal and compare the side by side office lighting views. You will see a difference.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[Rhino]

For your convenience here are those proportions alongside a Henry Morse ideal, inventor of the American Ideal cut (pre Tolkowsky). 35 crown angles, 41.0 pavilion angles with a 58 table. You can plainly see which is the brighter stone in these graphics which demonstrate what I''m talking about.

Peace,

 

[Rhino]

Here's the model of the Morse ideal in case you wanted to see that. In the cut quality analysis note the "dark zone" scores for each stone.

 

[chrono]

Rhino,
Thanks for the simulation. This is why I recommended an Idealscope in my earlier post to check out the stone. The HCA is just a weeding out tool, not THE tool to rely 100% on to buy diamonds. There should always be additional tests like an IScope and ASET to back it up.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/4/2007 4:18:11 PM
Author: Rhino
Here''s the model of the Morse ideal in case you wanted to see that. In the cut quality analysis note the ''dark zone'' scores for each stone.

I dun see no peeture.....

 

[Rhino]

Date: 10/4/2007 4:50:30 PM
Author: Chrono
Rhino,
Thanks for the simulation. This is why I recommended an Idealscope in my earlier post to check out the stone. The HCA is just a weeding out tool, not THE tool to rely 100% on to buy diamonds. There should always be additional tests like an IScope and ASET to back it up.

Chrono... in the comparisons the HCA suggests the darker stone and eliminates the brighter stone.

Iscope and ASET, while good information to have, have their limitations as well.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 10/4/2007 4:53:31 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/4/2007 4:18:11 PM
Author: Rhino
Here''s the model of the Morse ideal in case you wanted to see that. In the cut quality analysis note the ''dark zone'' scores for each stone.

I dun see no peeture.....

It''s in the file attachement.

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[Ellen]

Date: 10/4/2007 5:41:02 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 10/4/2007 4:53:31 PM
Author: Ellen

I dun see no peeture.....

It''s in the file attachement.

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/

I tried that, it wouldn''t work.

No biggie.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 10/4/2007 5:48:51 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/4/2007 5:41:02 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 10/4/2007 4:53:31 PM
Author: Ellen

I dun see no peeture.....

It''s in the file attachement.

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/

I tried that, it wouldn''t work.

No biggie.

Argh ... you do have Gem Advisor right?

 

[Ellen]

I did....


Duty calls... I''ll see if it somehow got uninstalled later!

 

[lynne160]

thanks RHINO...so if I want a bright diamond like the one in your comparison I should look for 35 crown 41 angle and 58 table?

 

[Rhino]

Date: 10/4/2007 6:18:52 PM
Author: lynne160
thanks RHINO...so if I want a bright diamond like the one in your comparison I should look for 35 crown 41 angle and 58 table?

35/41/58 is one of many great proportion combinations you can get that will produce a diamond that will not only look great in spot lighting but diffuse daylighting as well.

Kind regards,

 

[whatmeworry]

Date: 10/4/2007 4:15:54 PM
Author: Rhino
For your convenience here are those proportions alongside a Henry Morse ideal, inventor of the American Ideal cut (pre Tolkowsky). 35 crown angles, 41.0 pavilion angles with a 58 table. You can plainly see which is the brighter stone in these graphics which demonstrate what I''m talking about.

Peace,

Playing devil''s advocate here, is it also fair to say based on the graphics that the other stone is more firey/sparkly? Stones with odd proportions interest me too.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 10/4/2007 6:33:34 PM
Author: whatmeworry

Date: 10/4/2007 4:15:54 PM
Author: Rhino
For your convenience here are those proportions alongside a Henry Morse ideal, inventor of the American Ideal cut (pre Tolkowsky). 35 crown angles, 41.0 pavilion angles with a 58 table. You can plainly see which is the brighter stone in these graphics which demonstrate what I''m talking about.

Peace,

Playing devil''s advocate here, is it also fair to say based on the graphics that the other stone is more firey/sparkly? Stones with odd proportions interest me too.

Good question. Perhaps, but i wouldn''t attempt to predict that based on the limited info we have here.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/4/2007 4:01:27 PM
Author: Rhino
Just reading this thread. Low scoring HCA stones that have odd proportions always interest me. I input these parameters into DiamCalc and come up with the following model attached to this post. As a daily hands of user of various technologies that grade for ''light performance'' and comparing their visual results I advocate to not place too much stock in any one given technology.

My professional advice is to *proceed with extreme caution*. Based on my experience comparing visual results with HCA results and DiamCalc results this stone appears to be a diamond that will perform beautifully in spot lighting environments but can be a real dog (and I mean WOOF) in more common lighting environments. So in jewlelry store lighting it would look great but take it outside in the shade or diffuse type lighting and it''ll go dead on you with poor brightness. If you havn''t already, download the free Gem Advisor software, open this model alongside a GIA Ex or AGS Ideal and compare the side by side office lighting views. You will see a difference.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

Rhino you made a mistake.
Your simulation is nothing like the proportions posted in this thread?

Lynne I would defiinetly want more info on this stone. An ideal-scope would be good. Especially because the symmetry is in question.

I have posted a simulation here - the top one is with these proportions - the bottom has a better lower girdle lenght for stones like this - 85%. then the darkness near the center is not as bad - although the dark parts often light up with fire in these stones.

You trade some brightness for additional fire and snappy splintery scintillation. It will not look good from 6 inches -0 but would be great from 12 inches plus.
It is also approaching having a fisheye

 

[lynne160]

should i not bother with this diamond or is it worth pursuing taking into consideration my guidlelines and budget?

 

[Rhino]

I stand corrected mate.

I punched in a shallower pav angle. It''s still a stone I''d approach with caution though as the minor facets can really make or break this one. Here is a more accurate rendition. Thanks for pointing that out to me Garry.

Kind regards,

 

[Rhino]

Date: 10/4/2007 8:58:54 PM
Author: lynne160
should i not bother with this diamond or is it worth pursuing taking into consideration my guidlelines and budget?

Good question. There is where personal preferences and taste enter the picture. Personally ... I don''t like overly dark mains in a stone. If the lower girdle facets are cut too short it will really emphasize *dark* mains which some people really do not prefer. In the graphic below are 2 examples of where this stone could head in appearance based on minor facet cutting. With those proportions I''d prefer the type on the left but I would want to see and compare to an Ex/Ideal before I spent that much personally.

Peace,