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Thoughts on this stone, please.

cluelessupgrade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
24
I'm still trying to fine tune the upgrade of my e-ring from a 5-stone to 3-stone. I've learned so much through this process & just wish I'd come here before I set down this path. my DH & I made the mistake of thinking we could walk in to our local jewelry store over lunch, pick out a nice substantial center stone, tell them what design we wanted and be out of there, all for about $5K. (Everyone please feel free to stop & have the laugh this deserves!) The 1st stone we purchased was a 1.52 carat E SI3 EGL certified, which we stretched our loose budget to get. Shortly after I opened the ring, I noticed the stone appeared milky/cloudy. I read about fluorescence & the 4 Cs & concluded this diamond was crap. I learned a lot here & upgraded to a 1.66 H SI2 GIA h & a, XXX, which I loved but thought too small in proportion to my side stones. I decided to do it "right" & upgrade again. I also decided to have a new setting made, as the end stones were set too high & their sharp prongs rubbed my pinky & middle fingers on my size 4.5 finger. I pointed out to my local jeweler that the design flaw they created required me to get a new setting & I would purchase it myself but in return, wanted a good deal on a larger center stone, which they agreed.

I then bought my current stone, a 2.03 carat H SI2 GIA h & a. I was going to have a new setting made as planned (I want the trellis design & have several quotes--from Brian Gavin, IDD Jewelry & Debebians & waiting on Victor Canera). Now that I've had the new stone about a week, although it has a nice sparkle, it sometimes seems "cloudy " or "hazy " in certain lights, but I wonder if I'm just paranoid because of my first stone & the fact the cert for this mentions clouds. (However, it does NOT say that clarity is based on clouds not shown, which I know is a no-no.) We've now spent just over $19K for this stone (a tad more than our unrealistic $5k budget!) However, I now know We could have gotten a much nicer stone on-line for that price. :wall: BTW, when I bought the latest upgraded stone, the jeweler somehow lowered my end prongs & polished them so they are no longer uncomfortable, so the ring is tolerable for the moment.

Before I move forward on the trellis setting, I wanted to get thoughts on this stone. The jeweler told me it was eye-clean. I believe that's true as to regular inclusions, but I'm afraid the cloud inclusions are making it look cloudy sometimes. Before I spend the money for a custom setting, I want to be sure I'm keeping this stone. I'd love to have thoughts from you all as to whether you think I should keep this stone (does it look ok, is it a good one?) or should I upgrade? If I do upgrade, I'll need to wait about a year since I'd probably get a same size in SI1, which would probably be another $5K. My DH has been patient but now he's starting to think I have unrealistic expectations . I hope those of you who know diamonds & hear that I stared with a non-GIA cert SI3 realize that's not true. Anyway, here are the specs on my current stone:

GIA 1209881784
RB 8.15-8.20-4.97 mm
2.03 H SI2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

Here are a few pics:

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MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,190
This is a 60/60 type stone. These stones are known for their brightness more than their fire. The crown angle is a bit shallow and the pavilion angle a bit deep. Because it is GIA graded, those angles have been rounded so it's hard to know the exact average of the angles. SI2 stones can sometimes appear hazy just because of their inclusions.

If you are not happy with the stone and are still within a return period, by all means tell the jeweler you'd like to see something else. Parameters to use for well cut stones (but not 60/60 stones) are as follows:

Table 53-59
Depth no more than 62.3
Crown angle 34-35
Pavilion 40.6 - 40.9

If you are looking at GIA graded stones only, it is best to have an idealscope image so that you can see for yourself how the stone performs.

Are you able to get a full refund on a diamond and start all over again? If not, by all means feel free to post numbers here before making a final commitment to a stone.

For reference, this is a super ideal cut stone from Victor Canera. It is graded SI1 so that would account for some of the price difference. Look at the certificate, the idealscope and aset for this stone. Gives you some idea of what you might be looking for in terms of cut: https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/n15rt1-2.070-h-si1-ideal-hearts-arrows-round#cmp=prds
 

cluelessupgrade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
24
Thanks so much for taking time to offer your thoughts, MissGotRocks! Fortunately, my local jeweler does allow me to trade in my diamond at any time and get full credit towards a more expensive diamond. Unfortunately, I bet the cost of a diamond like the beautiful one you linked, although only $5K more than I spent on my current diamond, would be about $10K more at my local jeweler. (VERY, VERY expensive lesson learned!) And I think my DH, although he's been very patient, will need a little time to digest the fact that we need to spend that much more, especially if I have the new setting made, which is going to be another $2-$3K. That means our total investment in new money (beyond the cost of my original e-ring) will be around $30K, when we thought we'd spend around $5K! :shock:

My current ring is not hideous or embarrassing, and it probably is such that 99% of the people viewing it without looking at it closely would not be able to tell the difference from what an SI1 would look like, so I think I will wear it for another year and see where we are. I'll definitely keep these thoughts in mind and learn as much as I can in the meantime. And I most definitely will share the deets on any new stones I am considering to get feedback from the experts here!
Any other thoughts or comments are welcome!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,190
Your thoughts are probably well balanced and correct. Is it a dog? No. Could it be better - usually always but there are considerations along the road to diamond love to make. Your stone has good color and size and most people will only see those two attributes and be wowed!

Since the current mounting is now more comfortable and wearable, maybe you should just keep all as it is for now. Wear it a bit and see what you really think before sinking more $$ into another setting that might not accommodate another stone should you decide to upgrade down the road.

Rome wasn't built in a day and you've come a LONG way in upgrades in a short period of time. It is an expensive endeavor and while it seems like it would be a relatively easy thing to buy, it is anything but.

Meanwhile, you have a beautiful ring. Enjoy all the goodness that it holds!
 

cluelessupgrade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
24
Thanks again for your kind words. I decided to make a thread for this ring in the "Show Me the Bling" forum for now. If nothing else, I'll have pics to use as "Befores" if I do re-do it. :)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
An SI2 can certainly have clarity characteristics that would make the stone slightly cloudy and maybe even interfere with light performance. I would go strictly by the measurements that MissGotRocks posted, and I'd go with SI1 even if that meant going to a slightly smaller stone. Is there no way you can just get the original diamond back and return this one completely?
 

cluelessupgrade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
24
DiamondSeeker, I'm not sure, but I seriously doubt my other stone (the 1.66) would be available. Our local jeweler does not stock loose diamonds that large and had to order those in & I am sure was returning it to wherever she got it. I hate that I paid SO MUCH more for this stone ($6700 more) than the 1.66 and am not as happy as I was with it, though I do think the size works better overall. (it also was an SI2.)

I'm curious. Do you think it looks cloudy in some of these pics?? One reason I posted is to see if others thought that, as I was thinking it might be my paranoia! lol.

One thought I have is, I may wait until mid-year and see about upgrading to a 1.9 SI1, since I've heard being just UNDER the carat marks can save a lot of money--is that usually the case? I'm just not sure if that will hold true with our local jeweler, since all of their prices seem so inflated. I can see why local brick and mortar stores are going the way of the dodo bird! ha ha. If I do look to upgrade, I'll most definitely tell them I only want to see stones that fall within the parameters posted above, and will also post the certificates here to get feedback. I really appreciate your time on this. As much as I want to be "done" and wearing my "forever ring," I believe this is a process that I'm going to have to work through. Thanks!!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
It is true that under a carat mark can save some money, but a 1.98-1.99 isn't going to be easily found or cost much less than 2.0. However, there will be stones in the 1.8 up into the 1.9 range that would save money for sure. I would not change the setting until you get the final stone settled. And if you do decide to look at more stones, come back here and post the reports before deciding and we can help you!

Have you cleaned the diamond well to see if that makes a difference? It's just when there are a lot of inclusions such as clouds and twining wisps (and more than are shown on the plot), you may have a less crystal clear appearance when compared with a higher clarity stone.
 

cluelessupgrade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
24
Here are some pics I took today outside after it was cleaned very well. Since it doesn't have any fluorescence, I think it was reflecting the clear bright blue sky. It definitely looks clearer when it's clean, and I can't see any inclusions with my naked eyes.

And I agree with you--I won't do a new setting until I'm sure on my center stone. Thanks!

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_36193.jpg

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cluelessupgrade

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
24
Wanted to post an update and perhaps get some feedback from the experts here. I decided to go back to my local jeweler and tell them that I feel my current center stone looks cloudy under certain lighting and ask for prices on a GIA/AGS Excellent/Ideal H SI1 stone about 2cts. (I confirmed there are NO returns but I can upgrade with a full credit of what I've paid for the stone--just over $19K thus far.) Both my jeweler and more so my DH, are making me feel like I'm some picky perfectionist who will never be pleased because I'm not completely satisfied with my GIA H SI2. I could see if I were wanting something much higher in color/clarity, such as a D/E VVSI, but they're acting like I'm asking for an IF diamond!

I told my local jeweler I had concerns over both the clouds on the GI report and the angles on my current stone and gave the dimensions MissGotRocks posted above for what I felt necessary for a well-performing diamond, and also said it should score less than 2 on the HCA. The jeweler's response was that she didn't really feel that "changing a few degrees of an angle in a stone of this size and brilliance is going to create the kind of difference you believe you are going to see." She said my diamond is "absolutely gorgeous" and she felt it simply needed to be cleaned. I also asked for IS and Aset images of both my diamond and any prospective diamonds and was told they don't have those and would have to send the diamond back and have those taken at an extra cost. (This also indicates they don't have the IS or Aset scope in house.)

Where we left it is I asked her to get GIA/AGS reports of diamonds she can get and then I'll decide which I want to see. When I get those, I'll post them on here for feedback. Unfortunately, there won't be Idealscope or Aset images available. I was thinking of ordering my own kit, but I wasn't sure how long it will take to get it, and I don't want to wait weeks to make a decision either to upgrade again or try to forget about it. At this point, it's causing tension in my marriage, as my DH thinks I've become obsessed about this and am never going to be happy and am just going to keep spending a ton of money. Although I'll never say never, I really DO think once I have an SI1 diamond, I'll be able to feel more confident and content of the quality of the diamond I'm wearing. Thanks in advance to anyone who is reading!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,190
Good for you for sticking to your guns! Your husband will be happy when you are happy and satisfied with the diamond. Most people just don't understand the trivia of choosing a well cut stone but trust me when I tell you that they will appreciate the small nuances of a very well cut stone when it is on your hand. The most stubborn may not want to admit it but they will admire it for sure!

Can't wait to see your choices - hang in there - you are headed in the right direction!
 
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