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Thoughts on this stone? (ASET, Ideal Scope, Pic, Specs)

K

krazygem

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
7
All,
Just wanted to get your thoughts on this stone. I have viewed stones across the color/clarity/cut range locally, but this stone would be purchased online. I am concerned doing this as a diamond needs to be "experienced" but thought I would post images and specs to the almighty PS crew to get your blessing/shun/advice.


Specs:

GIA Cert: 1189184323
Weight - 2.20 ct
Color - J
Clarity - VS2
Fluoro - MEDIUM BLUE
Triple Excellent
PRICE: $15,800 ~ I have put a downpayment on the stone and it is reserved for me (100% refundable)

Details:

Depth - 60.7%
Table - 59%
Pavillion - 44% ~41.4 deg angle
Crown - 13.5% ~ 33 deg angle
HCA Score - 3.5

Here are my concerns:

1.) Does this stone look hazy? Milky? Associate told me it was just the image (also there is dust on the table ~ black spots)
2.) HCA score is very high (but I have been told HCA is not 100% accurate as to diamond performance)?
3.) Will the MEDIUM BLUE fluoro really help with diamond color? I am nervous about the J color
4.) Hearts & Arrows - the images show hearts are not cut well (or could this be camera angle & equipment)?
5.) ASET image shows a lot of green (again, equipment or angle or lighting)?
6.) Idealscope images shows some arrows in white, is the pavilion too deep???
7.) Will the particular setting I am using help all of these issues??????? (see images below)
8.)Thoughts on light performance???
9.) Is $15,800 a good price for this stone?????

This stone is rated at GIA triple-ex, but from the images, I am wondering if it is "bottom of the rating" triple-ex. Any thoughts and advice on this would be greatly appreciated! I am a first time buyer and want to knock my girlfriends socks off!





2_183.jpghearts_11.jpgarrows_12.jpgidealscope_18.jpgaset_54.jpgscreen_shot_2014-10-24_at_12.pngscreen_shot_2014-10-09_at_9.pngscreen_shot_2014-10-09_at_9_0.png
 
This is a bit beyond my expertise, but I think this diamond exhibits what is affectionaltely known as the "ring of death". Hopefully, some of the more expert PS members will chime in.

Good luck!
 
Leakage in the IS. Crown way too low. Leaky Pancake.

NO. Not a good stone. You can do much better.
 
Yep, lots of leakage...sorry.
 
So can I do better for that amount of money? Locally it seems like the answer is no, but locally I have not asked for any of the ASET, Ideascope images; I have simply viewed stones for what they are (comparing with other color/clarity/cut). Because this stone is online, I asked for all of the bells and whistles to try and make up for not seeing in person. But; for all I know the stones I see in person may not look much different under ASET/Idealscope. Their prices however, do look very different. It seems that online is the way to go for price; but being able to see the stones locally with my own eyes and compare is great value as well......

Here's the issue:

I have also put a down payment on a stone locally; BUT it is a (hiss, scream, shock....) EGL Israel "H VS1"....which means who they heck knows what it really is. But to my untrained naked eye it looks very beautiful, sparkly, and well cut.

I also have the GIA stone on hold that I posted above. I really want a GIA stone, I know its the right move, but being able to SEE the EGL stone has been good to ease my mind.

GIA, I know what I'm getting; EGL, luck of the draw. I held the EGL stone (Graded H) up to a GIA J at the local store, and could not tell a difference; but then again; its with my untrained eye.

Just looking for some advice here. I went to the store today and it looks like a may be locked in to a setting with them, as they have already started the CAD; But I can still change the stone.

I like the EGL stone, but I don't want to regret or halfass this purchase........

I am happy to post specs of the EGL stone if anyone wants to see. Oh, and the EGL stone is cheaper, but doing the setting locally is more expensive than online; so its a give and take on what to do......
 
Look. There is a reason it's cheap.

It's a 60/60 with a bad pavillion angle. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond

60/60's are discounted because so many of them, like yours, perform poorly.

Will you get a 2.20 for the price with better performance. Maybe not. Because performance costs. Because that's what makes a diamond beautiful. But a 2 carat with excellent performance will be a better looking stone.


I'll look to see what I can find for you.
 
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.
 
 
That would be fantastic if you could find something different; I have a very analytical, over analyzing, and indecisive mind unfortunately, so I am in a quandary over making a selection. I know everyone will shun me for choosing an EGL Israel diamond locally; but I have done tons of research since then and I have not paid for the stone.

Here are the specs of the EGL Israel stone, as well as a terrible picture I snapped with my iPhone which will probably not help at all:

EGL Cert:
Weight: 2.05ct
Color - "H"
Clarity - "VS1"
Fluoro - None
Triple Excellent

Price: $12,900 (which from looking online after the fact seems very high) I have a 100% refundable deposit down

Details: 8.16 - 8.06 X 5.05 mm

Dimensions:
Depth - 62.3%
Table - 56%
Crown Height - 16%
Pavillon Height - 43%
HCA Rating - 2.7

I think I already know the answer, but am I screwing myself if I buy this stone locally? I do like having someone locally for setting, service and trade-up; but I would rather get it right the first time. Plus, no matter what; I always feel like I am being taken advantage of by people who know more than me in these "wheeler dealer" environments.....

screen_shot_2014-10-24_at_6.pngscreen_shot_2014-10-24_at_6_0.png
 
Thanks for the advice Gypsy, I just brought up the stones you found and they look very nice. Do you happen to know if B2C does custom settings? I could not find this info on the site. I will call them to check anyway. If I move forward with any of these I will also get ASET and Idealscope images posted. The first one you sent (the 2.11ct) did great on HCA! 1.4! You sure can pick'em!
 
Gypsy,
Thank you very much for doing some digging. I just got off the phone with B2C, the first stone you found (2.11) has been put on order/hold for me. I have attached images below. Thoughts?screen_shot_2014-10-24_at_7_0.pngscreen_shot_2014-10-24_at_7_2.pngscreen_shot_2014-10-24_at_7_1.pngscreen_shot_2014-10-24_at_7_3.png
 
I have some practice picking them. But here's a short cut for you: https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results

If you use the above search and pick "excellent" for HCA score only then all the stones will be under 2. It's the fastest way to find selection.

I don't see the images for the B2C stone. Can you repost?

And no on the EGL stone. HCA is not perfect. But 2.7 AND EGL is a double strike out.

Here are links to explain that better:
The HCA, good and bad: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/understanding-the-hca-better.183527/#post-3339594#p3339594']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/understanding-the-hca-better.183527/#post-3339594#p3339594[/URL]
Discussion of the EGL labs: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
Law suits over inaccuracy/fraud of EGL lab reports! [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]
Rapnet bans EGL: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/[/URL]


As for settings. Just get the original setting you wanted. All you have to do is send the lab report of the stone you buy (just the image from the B2C site) to the setting vendor. Have them make the setting and send it to B2C and B2C can set it for you. Why? They will insure the stone during setting. If for some reason B2C objects. Then you can have the stone sent to the setting vendor and they can set it. But in that case you have to get the stone insured before the setting process takes place. And that's easy. You have to get insurance either way. But if the setting vendor sets the diamond, you get the insurance before it is set. If the stone vendor sets the stone in the setting, then you can get the insurance after.

I prefer vendors other than B2C for halos. So... that's why I advise that.
 
Ok. I can see the scans now.

Can they get you an idealscope?

The ASET looks very strong. SO you don't HAVE to have the idealscope, but it is nice to have.

I'd buy it.
 
THat 2.11 J is gorgeous :love: . I would run with that if its in budget while running away from the EGL stone. You can find a local jeweler for cleaning, repairs, sizing by maybe getting your other non BIG purchase through them. Maybe build a relationship by buying a watch, a pair of earrings, a band but don't make a $12000 bad stone purchase just to have a local go to store!
 
We move every couple years (so tired of it) and I always find a decent local jeweler. It can take a bit of time time because the majority of jewelers suck, but I always find one that's good enough for cleaning, polishing and checking my pieces over. Usually stores with in house benches... Where are you? Maybe we can recommend a place?
 
Thanks for the nod of approval Gypsy and Diamondbug, great stone indeed!

That is a great search tool that PS offers! I did use it before but failed to see the HCA setting, so thanks for bringing it to attention.

I live in Dallas guys, and the EGL slug was discovered at Diamond Doctor; on impulse after seeing all the other highly priced stones among other various dealers in the metroplex. Glad I stopped lurking and asked you guys for advice, as that slug will be kicked to the curb.

That said, I still have the deposit to reclaim at Diamond Doctor; and I am trying to figure out what to do regarding the CAD images they already started ($350 CAD fee added to total ring cost):

1.) Keep the CAD files and find a new vendor to make the setting? (Gypsy you mentioned B2C is a no-go for halo settings, any suggestions?)
2.) Buy the stone on B2C and continue with Diamond Doctor for setting ($3500 in 14K white gold, 3pt stones for halo and band) - High price?
3.) Raise hell and try and get my full deposit back; then make a scene, or not.....and then go to another vendor and start fresh
4.) Eat the $350 CAD fee, be a little mad/happy I'm not getting screwed on the EGL, and proceed with another vendor

Sidenote: I am extremely paranoid about getting stone and setting from two vendors; I know its probably ridiculous to mention stone switching, as most jewelers would punch me in the face for mentioning this, I always believe "trust but verify" but with this setting; once the stone is set there is really no way to verify (other than memorizing the inclusions; except on a VVS2 which is pretty darn perfect)

Last question, you guys mentioned a good local jeweler; any ideas for Dallas? I am in the Uptown area if you are familiar; but will go anywhere for good service/customer experience. I must say that Diamond Doctor was very good on service/experience; but showing me a mis-represented stone seems predatory and I am a little put off by this.

Thanks so much for the advice and help!!
 
JEEZ. I'm not saying a custom pave halo isn't a pricey setting. It definitely IS. But considering the unknown quality of it ... I wouldn't pay it. Suck up the 350 loss and move on.

Please read this. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/[/URL]

You live in Dallas. What do you think of this setting: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/the-anita-halo-platinum-5950p And BGD

BGD is in Houston. And their quality is fantastic. That setting also allows for a flush fit band.

If you don't like that one. Then call Brilliantly Engaged. And have the stone sent to them. They can make you a perfect halo no problem. And if you want white gold (though platinum is FAR better for pave) ... you can pick any of the below and ask for a quote.
http://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/chelsea-bpid-1245-45.html
http://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/florence-bpid-1259-45.html
http://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/auden-bpid-1238-45.html

Their quality is superior than most. And that counts with pave.
 
At the end of the day, a diamond should look beautiful to you no matter which lab graded it. If you love the look of the stone graded by EGL, you should do the following:

Ask the vendor to send it to AGS for certification. It costs $200 with a turnaround time of about a week. You should offer to cover the cost of certifying with AGS. If the vendor bulks at it, then you know they are hiding something. If they agree and you get the AGS certificate back, compare the specs to other AGS graded stones and judge if you are getting a fair deal.

What I found during my diamond search is that there is usually never a 'great' deal on a diamond, only fair deals. If a diamond is discounted compared to other diamonds of the same specs, there is something that made it sell at a discount, whether it be a brown tinge, inclusions at the most visible locations, strong fluorescence, milkiness, poor optical symmetry, painting/digging, all of which are usually hard to tell by looking at a lab report, regardless of which lab.
 
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