Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Thoughts on this diamond?

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
I agree that you probably don't need a SuperIdeal. There are plenty of well-cut diamonds out there that will perform almost exactly the same at a significant cost savings. Also, if you were trying to maximize size, then I would try to look for an eye-clean SI1 or *gasp* an eye-clean SI2. Yes, there are SI2s out there that will be fairly eye-clean, meaning that you could probably see a few inclusions under close observation, but you would never notice them in day-to-day life. There are many members of this board that have SI2s and love them, as it allowed them to maximize size while staying in budget. @icy_jade just purchased a G/SI2, so maybe she could chime in with her experience, but I know in previous threads that she has said she's happy with it. :) (sorry to call you out @icy_jade. You're just the most recent example so the only one I could remember haha)

I found one diamond that may fit these criteria. It looks fairly eye-clean from the video, with no inclusions under the table and most hidden under the crown facets where they are not visible. The diamond is well cut, is a large size increase over the .9 carats you've been viewing (6.7mm) and from the video it looks great. :) And best of all, it is within your budget range at $5125!
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamonds/2944130?utm_source=rarecarat.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rarecarat
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,026
Thanks @TreeScientist and @sledge you guys are fantastic. That’s a big difference in price!
I’m really torn at what to do at the moment. I’m actually starting to think that I don’t need to go down the super ideal route as my partner won’t care and that now maybe bigger will be better as long as it still looks good I just wish we had something good/Excellent to easily compare to the junk that is in the stores where I live.
Ok, if she doesn’t care I don’t think you should sacrifice size and get a super ideal.

If you are ok with the ideal of SI grade clarity that is eye clean, you can find much bigger stones within your budget. My SI2 is eye clean but I am able to see inclusions in some pics since the stone is all zoomed up. This is my biggest sacrifice in the 4Cs to get the cut (CBI diamond) and size that I wanted. I hardly notice it’s SI2 except when I take pics and that’s when it really bugs me. Otherwise really don’t see the inclusions.

From a layman perspective, size is the easiest to detect. Not sure what the folks around you propose with but I will suggest matching or exceeding them in size by a bit if you can.

Color is personal. You can be color sensitive and very tolerant, or the reverse but generally most very color sensitive folks seem to be less tolerant to yellow tints in modern round brilliant cuts. I’ll generally recommend G as a safe choice as H can be quite obviously yellow, even face up in good cuts (at least it was obvious to me). With my G I still see hints of color now and then but nothing too disturbing. I didn’t notice tints in my F diamonds but F is in the colorless range. But since you want to maximise size, G is a safe choice.

One more thing to consider is fluorescence. If you don’t mind the diamond glowing blue under UV lights, it will cost less. Personally I love such diamonds.

I think you can rely on the folks here to find you decent diamonds with good cuts that really sparkle so no need to worry about that. Good luck!

:) (sorry to call you out @icy_jade. You're just the most recent example so the only one I could remember haha)
No worries ;)2
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
While some people are happy with SI2 stones, I think the vast majority will tell you it's dangerous territory at best. Yes, unicorns exist. But also, there are plenty of stones that can bite you as well.

I think @icy_jade had a great situation. She worked with a super ideal vendor (HPD/CBI) when she bought her stone. Sure, she gets the kick ass cut. But more so, when looking at SI2 stones she had veteran eyes looking at that stone to ensure it didn't have durability issues, light performance issues and that it was as eye clean as possible. This is called "vetting".

That stringent of a vetting process isn't possible using virtual inventory where a retailer (FourMine, Adiamor, etc) is sourcing the stone from an overseas supplier. These virtual inventory retailers are mostly interested in pushing stones for the max profit possible, period. The super ideal vendors are invested in maximizing profit, their own reputation, customer satisfaction and the beauty of the stone.

Rather you decide to splurge on a super ideal or not is up to you. I am one of those guys that like to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of everything I do and own.

A few years back I was drag racing. Nothing as serious as some of my buddies, but while many people will be happy to have a 12 second quarter mile (1320') run, a 11.8 or 11.9 is even sweeter. One of my buddies happened to dip down below 7 seconds in the 1320. In a fat girl, Dodge Challenger, nonetheless. Although she's mostly stripped now for weight reduction.

My point remains, some people are okay with Honda Accords. Others want more. You have to decide where you fall.

FYI...here is a compilation of some of those runs my buddy had dipping below the 7 second range. Notice how upon launch he immediately grabs traction and delivers the power to the ground? That is very rare and the key to going that fast. Lots of money and intricate details goes into making something look that smooth & easy -- much like a super ideal diamond. ;)2

 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
While some people are happy with SI2 stones, I think the vast majority will tell you it's dangerous territory at best. Yes, unicorns exist. But also, there are plenty of stones that can bite you as well.

I think @icy_jade had a great situation. She worked with a super ideal vendor (HPD/CBI) when she bought her stone. Sure, she gets the kick ass cut. But more so, when looking at SI2 stones she had veteran eyes looking at that stone to ensure it didn't have durability issues, light performance issues and that it was as eye clean as possible. This is called "vetting".

That stringent of a vetting process isn't possible using virtual inventory where a retailer (FourMine, Adiamor, etc) is sourcing the stone from an overseas supplier. These virtual inventory retailers are mostly interested in pushing stones for the max profit possible, period. The super ideal vendors are invested in maximizing profit, their own reputation, customer satisfaction and the beauty of the stone.
If retailers like Four Mine were only interested in maximizing profit, then why do they offer some of the lowest prices above wholesale among the online retailers? The only person that sells to the public that offers lower prices is USA Certified Diamonds, and with them you don't get a return policy.

And would a company not interested in customer satisfaction have an average rating of 4.8 or 4.9/5 stars on Google Reviews (the same as WhiteFlash)?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
If retailers like Four Mine were only interested in maximizing profit, then why do they offer some of the lowest prices above wholesale among the online retailers? The only person that sells to the public that offers lower prices is USA Certified Diamonds, and with them you don't get a return policy.

And would a company not interested in customer satisfaction have an average rating of 4.8 or 4.9/5 stars on Google Reviews (the same as WhiteFlash)?
Or maybe it's because they have no unique product that offers them the inherent ability to compete on any possible level besides lowest prices.

But I'm glad to hear Google Reviews has them ranked as highly as a super ideal vendor. Clearly that validates them.
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,947
Or maybe it's because they have no unique product that offers them the inherent ability to compete on any possible level besides lowest prices.

But I'm glad to hear Google Reviews has them ranked as highly as a super ideal vendor. Clearly that validates them.
Kinda harsh.
 

krusty900

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
72
Thanks again @icy_jade , @sledge and @TreeScientist for the replies. I have a colleague bringing in her engagement ring from a previous marriage which sounds like it may be decent and have a certificate (hoping it’s gia xxx so I have something reasonable to compare to) she has even offered to sell to me in the past, so that could be a goer if the diamond is good and price is right and I can find a good Jeweler to set the diamond again in a personal setting.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
Or maybe it's because they have no unique product that offers them the inherent ability to compete on any possible level besides lowest prices.

But I'm glad to hear Google Reviews has them ranked as highly as a super ideal vendor. Clearly that validates them.
Personally, I take reviews that companies post on their own websites with a grain of salt (since they can filter them) but I put a lot of trust into reviews on Yelp and Google Reviews. You can only screw people over so many times before you'll start to get a mountain of bad reviews on those sites (just look at James Allen with 2.5 stars on Yelp...), because if there is one thing about millennials, it's that they love to b*[email protected] and complain online when they feel they've been wronged. So if a retailer has an average rating in the 4.8-5 star range on those sites after a few hundred reviews, then you can be pretty sure that they're treating their customers well, as their customers are obviously leaving the transaction feeling satisfied. I'm not sure what else validates a company more than satisfied customers, but if you can educate me I would be happy to learn.

As for having no unique product, I'm not exactly sure what is "unique" about a SuperIdeal MRB over an equally well cut non-branded MRB, other than the brand image behind said product. But I guess if a brand image allows you charge a premium for a "premium" product, then that is unique from a marketing perspective. Sure SuperIdeals are very well cut, beautiful diamonds, but you need to remember that not everyone has to have the absolute finest cut in their diamond. There are many that value other aspects of a diamond above the SuperIdeal label, such as the maximizing carat weight for a certain budget while staying at G and above color (which I agree with @icy_jade is the safest range if you want to make sure the diamond looks white under almost every viewing situation). All I'm saing if that I was given the choice between this diamond:
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamonds/2944130

And this diamond (the cheapest G+ color of a similar size I could find on WF):
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006534.htm

Well, I know where my extra $3k would be going... ;-)
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
Kinda harsh.
Admittedly I'm tired and cranky today. My apologies if it came across too harsh.

I just dont see the relevance of someone selling cheap as them not trying to maximize profit. They just have no other means to compete than dropping their pants. Any retailer playing the virtual inventory game faces the same challenge.

This can be a good thing for the consumer when shopping is dollar driven and a quality stone is found amongst multiple retailers. It puts considerable leverage in the hands of the buyer to negotiate a great deal for themselves.

On the flip side, it's the wrong type of retailer when you need specialized vetting to help ensure a good quality stone. IMO, buying a clean SI2 requires specialized vetting for reasons I already stated.

And @krusty900 I saw you posted as I was typing about your friend bring her diamond from a previous marriage. Please post pics of the stone and cert so we can help guide you and ensure its cut well. Also, even if you are okay with it, is your fiancee okay with a diamond with bad history? Many people get weird about that sort of thing, myself included.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
Thanks again @icy_jade , @sledge and @TreeScientist for the replies. I have a colleague bringing in her engagement ring from a previous marriage which sounds like it may be decent and have a certificate (hoping it’s gia xxx so I have something reasonable to compare to) she has even offered to sell to me in the past, so that could be a goer if the diamond is good and price is right and I can find a good Jeweler to set the diamond again in a personal setting.
Glad to hear! You can often get some great deals on rings from past marriages :) (a lot of people want to get rid of those bad memories as quickly as possible haha). Do you know approx. what size it is? I guess you'll find out if she brings the certificate.

Definitely post details once you view the ring. Hope it turns out to be a decent diamond, as buying a diamond second hand that you have the opportunity to view in person and then setting it in your own setting would likely be the most cost-effective way to go. :)
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
Also, even if you are okay with it, is your fiancee okay with a diamond with bad history? Many people get weird about that sort of thing, myself included.
I never really understood this. Can you elaborate on why you feel that way? I'm just genuinely curious.

You really never know a diamond's history unless you're ordering a diamond custom cut from the rough. So many of the diamonds on the market are recycled (or recut and then recycled, as was the case for many old world diamonds that were re-cut to MRBs from OECs) once the past owner dies/gets divorced that it's darn-near impossible to keep track of where a diamond came from. Honestly, I think it would be cool if my fiancé's diamond was a "recycled" diamond with some history. I love recycling everything else in my life, so why not a diamond? haha

I would kind of be put off by a used setting from a failed marriage though. But the setting is usually only a small part of the total cost of a ring anyway, so you can just scrap the setting and get a new one when purchasing second-hand. :)
 

krusty900

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
72
Will definetly post when I get a chance to look later this week. @sledge I though my gf was completely against it as I mentioned it a while ago and got into trouble, but she thought I meant just buying the ring and getting it resized, turns out she has no problem if only the diamond is used. Anyways a bit of water to pass before that becomes an option anyways. Just looking forward to hopefully looking at something half decent.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
I would agree about reviews on company sites. It doesn't mean they are fake or filtered but they have the ability. But then again, anyone with a fake email account and some will power has the ability to bloat Google and Yelp reviews as well.

Honestly I try to find forums where people bitch/praise about the company for a more unbiased look. I think if you did that here you would find FourMines is a value shop. WF does considerably more and has additional depth beyond offering cheap price and getting a stone from A to B. IDJ isn't super ideal and would have a similar reputation. So while web reviews could be honest, the depth of each company has to be considered.

It's much easier to please a toddler at McDonalds than an adult with a decent palate, just as an example.

With super ideals, it's more than a brand. It's true hearts and arrows symmetry, advanced and proprietary cutting techniques, higher level of customer service, better upgrade programs, advanced imaging, etc.

For $3k difference I would be inclined to consider GIA XXX too. They will always be less because you get less. But the extras you get may not be valued by the buyer and that's okay too. That said, it's also unfair to compare an SI2 to an SI1 and say the SI2 is a better value. Compare apples to apples at as many levels as possible and while a difference likely exists it's not quite as much as being represented.
 

krusty900

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
72
I am very much a bargain hunter, love buying things cheaper on the Internet Etc and my partner knows this. I am already salivating at the possibility of a bargain haha(but equally as happy if nothing comes of it)
 

Kaycee2018

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
381
For $3k difference I would be inclined to consider GIA XXX too. They will always be less because you get less.
I'm sorry, but this statement is unfair and not entirely true. There are GIA XXX diamonds that meet AGS 000 "super ideal" specs. They just take digging to find (and the helpful folks of this forum are more than happy to assist in that regard). @sledge , I get that you are very "pro super ideal", but there are plenty of people with GIA XXX diamonds (especially on this forum, where we've been educated on specs, HCA, etc.) that perform on par with super ideals. And there are plenty of people who would be just as happy with a GIA XXX diamond with "super ideal specs" or "near super ideal specs" rather than spend the premium on a branded super ideal diamond. A branded super ideal diamond similar to my GIA XXX goes for about 45% more than what I paid....and I for one cannot see much, if any, difference in the performance. I'd rather take the difference and go on vacation LOL. I chose to get a G color with nearly super ideal specs and I certainly don't feel like I "got less". But based on your posts about the yellow tint of your super ideal, it sounds like you got less in the color department by going with a super ideal. And that's fine...we all have to make compromises when buying diamond...most people cannot afford a D, IF, Super Ideal in the size of their choosing.

I apologize for my rant, OP. Good luck in your diamond search.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,364
If retailers like Four Mine were only interested in maximizing profit, then why do they offer some of the lowest prices above wholesale among the online retailers? The only person that sells to the public that offers lower prices is USA Certified Diamonds, and with them you don't get a return policy.

And would a company not interested in customer satisfaction have an average rating of 4.8 or 4.9/5 stars on Google Reviews (the same as WhiteFlash)?

Or maybe it's because they have no unique product that offers them the inherent ability to compete on any possible level besides lowest prices.

But I'm glad to hear Google Reviews has them ranked as highly as a super ideal vendor. Clearly that validates them.
Having done a bunch of looking at Yadav, Four Mine, etc, I don't think it's *entirely* inaccurate to say that they aren't in the business of providing tons of customer service. Their model seems to be offering extremely competitive pricing on stones (many of which are overseas without ASET/IS, etc), and many of which are sold by the time people ask about the IS/ASET and get a response back. BUT that doesn't mean that these vendors have "nothing to offer", IMHO. I think they are a great place to find deals, especially if the buyer isn't worried about upgrade policies or having people personally pull stones and provide "live" feedback. Everyone is different, and some people prioritize ease of transaction and customer service while others would take slightly less of those things in order to save some $. Neither is wrong--just different.

OP: you sound like someone who wants to find a great deal. With that in mind, I'd like to recommend that you call ID Jewelry. They have a bit of both worlds---great customer service and access to tons of inventory at great prices. They are known for working miracles with budgets and providing great products.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
30,523
All I'm saing if that I was given the choice between this diamond:
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamonds/2944130

And this diamond (the cheapest G+ color of a similar size I could find on WF):
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006534.htm

Well, I know where my extra $3k would be going... ;-)
You can't compare apples to oranges..
#1. The WF stone is SI1
#2. The WF is a H&A stone.
#3. The GIA is an SI2
#4. The GIA girdle is unfinished.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,026
Try not to get someone else’s stone unless it is someone that your gf knows and is comfortable having her hand me downs, is in happy marriage, no financial problems, and has a stunning stone.

Too much baggage otherwise. Personally I’m fine with a used stone but not in an engagement ring.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,026
I never really understood this. Can you elaborate on why you feel that way? I'm just genuinely curious.
Bad juju. Really. Not really explainable but it is what it is and engagement rings are special so all the more no. That’s why I set those conditions to the OP re happy marriage, no financial problems, etc...

And I ‘cleanse’ my preloved stuff before wearing.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
I never really understood this. Can you elaborate on why you feel that way? I'm just genuinely curious.
I agree that logically there is absolutely zero reason why it should matter. I understand that bad luck or karma isn't passed on through objects.

However, my entire life I have always got reads and "gut feelings" about different things. I learned that when I listen, things normally go my way. When I don't, things normally go bad.

So for me, I just don't want what I perceive as negative energy attached to me, my fiancee or our future together. But I also believe talking yourself up (or down) can have a very positive (or negative) effect on your life as well.


Will definetly post when I get a chance to look later this week. @sledge I though my gf was completely against it as I mentioned it a while ago and got into trouble, but she thought I meant just buying the ring and getting it resized, turns out she has no problem if only the diamond is used. Anyways a bit of water to pass before that becomes an option anyways. Just looking forward to hopefully looking at something half decent.
No judgment here. If it works for both of you, full speed ahead skipper. I was just making you aware that it does bother some people.


I'm sorry, but this statement is unfair and not entirely true. There are GIA XXX diamonds that meet AGS 000 "super ideal" specs. They just take digging to find (and the helpful folks of this forum are more than happy to assist in that regard). @sledge , I get that you are very "pro super ideal", but there are plenty of people with GIA XXX diamonds (especially on this forum, where we've been educated on specs, HCA, etc.) that perform on par with super ideals. And there are plenty of people who would be just as happy with a GIA XXX diamond with "super ideal specs" or "near super ideal specs" rather than spend the premium on a branded super ideal diamond. A branded super ideal diamond similar to my GIA XXX goes for about 45% more than what I paid....and I for one cannot see much, if any, difference in the performance. I'd rather take the difference and go on vacation LOL. I chose to get a G color with nearly super ideal specs and I certainly don't feel like I "got less". But based on your posts about the yellow tint of your super ideal, it sounds like you got less in the color department by going with a super ideal. And that's fine...we all have to make compromises when buying diamond...most people cannot afford a D, IF, Super Ideal in the size of their choosing.

I apologize for my rant, OP. Good luck in your diamond search.
I think now is a good time to clarify that a super ideal stone includes the following:
  • AGS000 certification
  • True hearts & arrow symmetry
  • Proprietary & advanced cutting techniques
Getting the right proportions and angles can yield a GIA stone that can possibly meet AGS000 certification. GIA symmetry may be great, but not a true H&A stone. And they lack any proprietary cutting techniques.

Not to mention the GIA stones listed here lack advanced imaging, advanced customer service levels, better upgrade programs, etc.

I have never once said you can't find gorgeous GIA XXX stones. In fact I've helped many people here do just that because it works best for their budget, goals and desires. But it's like the story I shared earlier on drag racing. Some people are happy 12 second quarter miles. Others understand the value in hitting 11.8 or 11.9 in the quarter.

Also, having helped a slew of people I disagree with your 45% premium on a true apples-to-apples comparison of a super ideal and GIA XXX stone with the same carat, cut & clarity and that meets AGS000 proportions.

FYI, since you brought up my fiancee's stone, let's get some truths straight. I didn't sacrifice color to stay within super ideal specs. I had the money to forge ahead but didn't feel she could see the color difference based on data I had at the time so I felt I made a good choice and didn't want to "waste" the money. Size was limited because of HER preference -- my original target was a 2 carat but she wanted 0.5 carat. I compromised at nearly 1 carat. If I would have known then what I know now I would have got a D/E color and spent the extra cash. Also I would have been much pickier on proportions, which to me, I now feel is near perfect -- 54-55 table, 34.5 crown, 40.7-40.8 pavilion & 75-76 LGF's. The stone would still have been a BGD, WF or HPD super ideal because I am the 11.8 or 11.9 quarter mile guy. So when she's ready to upgrade I'm ready to take the step with her.


Having done a bunch of looking at Yadav, Four Mine, etc, I don't think it's *entirely* inaccurate to say that they aren't in the business of providing tons of customer service. Their model seems to be offering extremely competitive pricing on stones (many of which are overseas without ASET/IS, etc), and many of which are sold by the time people ask about the IS/ASET and get a response back. BUT that doesn't mean that these vendors have "nothing to offer", IMHO. I think they are a great place to find deals, especially if the buyer isn't worried about upgrade policies or having people personally pull stones and provide "live" feedback. Everyone is different, and some people prioritize ease of transaction and customer service while others would take slightly less of those things in order to save some $. Neither is wrong--just different.

OP: you sound like someone who wants to find a great deal. With that in mind, I'd like to recommend that you call ID Jewelry. They have a bit of both worlds---great customer service and access to tons of inventory at great prices. They are known for working miracles with budgets and providing great products.
Thank you. I agree. They have considerable value to offer. Great deals can be found as long as the purchaser knows the experience they are signing up to receive and okay with it.

Buying an SI2 stone from someone that can't properly vet the stone feels like risky and like dangerous advice to me. Up the clarity and grab the best XXX well proportioned stone you can find for the cash.
 

krusty900

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
72
Fair enough @icy_jade the person involved is engaged again and I think the ring has just been sitting in a safe somewhere,I think she tried to sell it some time ago but had no luck. Would definetly confirm the gf was comfortable using the diamond. Before going ahead. Anyways, just going to check it out as it’s supposedly a good one and all we have seen so far is junk and will be interesting to see the difference.
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,947
@sledge A stone does not have to be AGS to be in super ideal territory. There are GIA stones that can fall into this category as well. There are also GIA stones that are H&A. The diamond cutter I have used (that WF recommended and who I believe does some cutting for WF) offers H&A super ideals but chooses to use GIA as their main grader because GIA is who the majority of the public trusts. And as we have seen in the last couple days- James Allen has recerted under GIA some BGD stones they brought in. Doesn’t make those stones any less super ideal.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
For fun...

WF ACA 1.108ct F SI1, $8,101 wire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986332.htm

GIA XXX 1.08ct F SI1, $6,653 wire (FourMine) or $7,515 (Taylor & Hart)
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/92448732
https://taylorandhart.com/us/diamond-search/RN-92448732-GIA-6281681204

Capture.PNG

Price adjusted for weight difference:
  • Determine lowest cost of GIA stone: $6,653
  • Determine dollars per carat of GIA stone: $6,653 / 1.08ct = $6,160.19
  • Adjusted price considering weight difference: $6,160.19 per carat x 1.108ct = $6,825.49
  • Determine cost % difference: $8,101 / $6,825.49 = 1.187, or 118.7%
  • Price increase: 118.7% - 100% = 18.7%
  • Double check work: $6,825.49 x 1.187 = $8,101.86
We saw the double check came out slightly higher because I rounded the cost % difference.

On these particular stones there is about 19% price premium for a super ideal stone.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,364
Fair enough @icy_jade the person involved is engaged again and I think the ring has just been sitting in a safe somewhere,I think she tried to sell it some time ago but had no luck. Would definetly confirm the gf was comfortable using the diamond. Before going ahead. Anyways, just going to check it out as it’s supposedly a good one and all we have seen so far is junk and will be interesting to see the difference.
I think it's great that you're open to using a previously "used" stone. And even better that you know better than to do so without the blessing of your GF ;)2

I am someone who wouldn't care about a stones' "history", but would still want to know rather than having someone pick that for me without me knowing about it.

OP: you sound like a conscientious and loving partner, and I think whatever you choose will be great.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
@sledge A stone does not have to be AGS to be in super ideal territory. There are GIA stones that can fall into this category as well. There are also GIA stones that are H&A. The diamond cutter I have used (that WF recommended and who I believe does some cutting for WF) offers H&A super ideals but chooses to use GIA as their main grader because GIA is who the majority of the public trusts. And as we have seen in the last couple days- James Allen has recerted under GIA some BGD stones they brought in. Doesn’t make those stones any less super ideal.
I think you misunderstood what I said.

I do not disagree that a GIA stone can meet AGS000 ideal properties. In fact I just wrote another post that proves this. I've done this frequently for countless people here. I am very well aware of this.

What I am disagreeing about is the term of super ideal. That term encapsulates AGS000 accreditation along with other requirements such as being a true hearts & arrows stone and having proprietary cutting techniques.

I would also agree that in the last few days we saw TWO stones be previous BGD super ideals that was re-certified as GIA stones. But come on. How many of those exist? We are talking less than 1% of the GIA population making them a very far reaching outlier at best.

You did introduce a new and interesting element with the cutter WF recommended. Let's say they always produce a true H&A stone produced to the same proprietary cutting techniques performed by WF (wouldn't that be illegal?) but yet certify as GIA.

Can I ask the painfully stupid question -- how in the hell do we know this with any amount of certainty without trusting what you said? What proof exists? A non-existent H&A image? Or non-existent ASET and idealscope images?

Don't take me wrong. I don't think you would lie to us or anything like that.

But if this person is cutting stones to that quality and then not certifying as AGS or marketing in a manner that is different to advertise the superior cut & symmetry then isn't he doing himself a disservice? More so, without those images, how can a reasonable buyer determine they are getting his superior stone with AGS000 proportions vs another GIA stone with AGS000 proportions that isn't as superbly cut or have true H&A symmetry?
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,947
I think you misunderstood what I said.

I do not disagree that a GIA stone can meet AGS000 ideal properties. In fact I just wrote another post that proves this. I've done this frequently for countless people here. I am very well aware of this.

What I am disagreeing about is the term of super ideal. That term encapsulates AGS000 accreditation along with other requirements such as being a true hearts & arrows stone and having proprietary cutting techniques.

I would also agree that in the last few days we saw TWO stones be previous BGD super ideals that was re-certified as GIA stones. But come on. How many of those exist? We are talking less than 1% of the GIA population making them a very far reaching outlier at best.

You did introduce a new and interesting element with the cutter WF recommended. Let's say they always produce a true H&A stone produced to the same proprietary cutting techniques performed by WF (wouldn't that be illegal?) but yet certify as GIA.

Can I ask the painfully stupid question -- how in the hell do we know this with any amount of certainty without trusting what you said? What proof exists? A non-existent H&A image? Or non-existent ASET and idealscope images?

Don't take me wrong. I don't think you would lie to us or anything like that.

But if this person is cutting stones to that quality and then not certifying as AGS or marketing in a manner that is different to advertise the superior cut & symmetry then isn't he doing himself a disservice? More so, without those images, how can a reasonable buyer determine they are getting his superior stone with AGS000 proportions vs another GIA stone with AGS000 proportions that isn't as superbly cut or have true H&A symmetry?
Why would it be illegal for them to cut a stone as a H&A? WF just told us the other day they buy from several cutters as long as the stones meet their cutting criteria. The cutter I’m referring to is not a retailer, 99.9% of their business is cutting for other businesses.
ETA- and with this, I am out. I’m not about to keep debating this and beating a dead horse.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
3,798
Why would it be illegal for them to cut a stone as a H&A? WF just told us the other day they buy from several cutters as long as the stones meet their cutting criteria. The cutter I’m referring to is not a retailer, 99.9% of their business is cutting for other businesses.
ETA- and with this, I am out. I’m not about to keep debating this and beating a dead horse.
:wall:

I wasn't saying it's wrong for them to cut a true H&A stone.

It was my understanding that WF employed cutters that utilized special cut techniques to give their diamonds an edge. Sort of like how HPD carefully aligns angles, etc using 3D technology to ensure their stones are of the best cut quality.

This is what I meant by proprietary cutting, which I would think would be protected so others cannot easily duplicate their magic sauce. But I could be wrong.

I'm tired too. I'm out.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,026
Fair enough @icy_jade the person involved is engaged again and I think the ring has just been sitting in a safe somewhere,I think she tried to sell it some time ago but had no luck. Would definetly confirm the gf was comfortable using the diamond. Before going ahead. Anyways, just going to check it out as it’s supposedly a good one and all we have seen so far is junk and will be interesting to see the difference.
Ok if you come back with the cert info (cert number and then perhaps pull the cert from the GIA or AGL site so that we can see the angles, inclusions etc) I’m sure someone can advise if the diamond is decent.

I use a very simple way to ‘cleanse’ my preloved stuff. Happy to share that if u do go ahead. :lol: Prob not the most ‘legit’ method but it works for me.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
This is what I meant by proprietary cutting, which I would think would be protected so others cannot easily duplicate their magic sauce. But I could be wrong.
You are wrong. So to clarify, there are several diamond cuts that are protected by patent, but the 57 facet MRB is not one of them. An H&A MRB is not considered a separate cut (or a proprietary cut), it is just an example of a perfectly executed version of the cut. For a good review of some cuts that are patented, the complicated process to patent a cut, and the difference between a brand trademark and a patented cut, here's a good article by GIA:
https://www.gia.edu/doc/Legal-Protection-for-Proprietary-Diamond-Cuts.pdf

Any diamond with a cut that is still protected under patent will likely have the patent number listed on the certificate. The 8-arrow cushion brilliant is an example of a cut that still has an active patent. See, on the certificate it says "U.S. Patent D639,202 S" under "Clouds not shown." In such a case, the patent holder has exclusive rights to the cut for the duration of the patent period, and any person wanting to cut the diamond would need to have the permission of the patent holder (and likely pay them a fee for doing so):
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.540-e-si1-cushion-diamond-ags-104065050008

There is nothing secret or proprietary about the H&A MRB cut, as it is not patented. Any highly skilled master cutter given the right rough can cut a MRB to H&A proportions if they commit the time to it. As @Wewechew said, WF and BG both source their diamonds from multiple cutters. @Texas Leaguer has said on here multiple times that they source the majority of their diamonds from a cutter that they have a special relationship with, but they also work with other cutters who can meet their exacting standards. They provide the cutters with their desired specifications, and the cutters give them the opportunity to purchase those diamonds that meet their specifications. There is nothing preventing these cutters from selling H&A diamonds to non-SuperIdeal vendors though.

CBI is the only exception among the SuperIdeal vendors that I know of, in that the CBI-trademarked diamonds all originate from a single cutting house because, well, CBI is the cutting house. Again, it's not that their process is protected by patent in any way. But the CBI cutting house only cuts CBIs, so in that way, you know you're getting a diamond cut by a house that only cuts for this specific brand and no-one else. I do think that's pretty cool, and one of the reasons I like the idea of CBIs. :)

I'm not trying to put down the SuperIdeal vendors at all. I do highly respect them for committing to selling only well-cut diamonds. And such a business model makes it easy for the average consumer to select a beautiful diamond all by themselves in a very short period of time, which is why I will continue to recommend them to any person looking to do exactly that in the future. In fact, I just recommended HPD to one of my best friends who is thinking about proposing soon and asked me where he could find a great diamond (he was the only friend I showed my fiancé's ring to before proposing, and he was very impressed with the diamond :) ). I know that he has absolutely 0 interest in learning about diamonds and just wants to get this process over and done with, and he is not limited in his budget in any way whatsoever, so I would never recommend trying to find a diamond on the open market to him. He would not have the patience for sorting through several stones (even if I recommended them to him), requesting IS images from vendors, analyzing the pros and cons of each, etc. Since HPD has the most exacting standards and the most consistency of any of the SuperIdeal vendors I've come across, I recommended them to him, as I know that you could just about pick a CBI at random within your desired color and carat range and end up with an amazing stone. In fact, that's exactly what I told him. :)
 

Kaycee2018

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
381
Also, having helped a slew of people I disagree with your 45% premium on a true apples-to-apples comparison of a super ideal and GIA XXX stone with the same carat, cut & clarity and that meets AGS000 proportions.
Sledge, I just wanted to share with you how I arrived at the approx. 45% price increase for a branded super ideal vs. a GIA XXX with near super ideal specs. Here is the most comparable super ideal I could find in my quick search, which has a price tag of around $24,000 (depending on payment method). That is nearly 45% more than the cost of my GIA ExExEx with near super ideal specs. No, the comparison is not exactly an “apples-to-apples” comparison because, as I noted, the difference accounts for paying the premium for the “branded super ideal cut” vs. a GIA XXX with near super ideal specs.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022610.htm

My GIA ExExEx: Comparable Super Ideal:
Carat 1.85 1.876
Color G G
Clarity VVS2 VS1
Flor. Faint Negligible
Depth % 61.9 61.7
Table % 57 55.7
CA 36 34.5
Crown Hght. 15.5 15.2
PA 40.5 40.6
Pavilion Dep. 42.5 42.8
Star Length 50 53
Lower Half % 75 76
Girdle Med.-Sl. Thick Thin-Sl. Thick
Cutlet None Pointed

The cost difference for the super ideal cut diamond (with a lower clarity, mind you) is not worth it for something I cannot even detect. Just as some people can’t differentiate between a G and an I color (or don’t find a tint bothersome) and don’t want to "waste" the money on a higher color, and some people are fine with an eye clean VS2 and don’t want to "waste" the money on a higher clarity, there are plenty of people who can’t tell much, if any, difference between a very nicely cut GIA XXX with super ideal specs or very near super ideal specs vs. a branded super ideal and don’t want to "waste" the money on a branded super ideal (or sacrifice color, clarity or size for one), especially when the difference is negligible to them at most.

Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand the allure of branded super ideals…some people can detect a significant difference in performance, so for them the additional cost (and/or sacrificing color, clarity and/or size) to go super ideal is worth it. Many people enjoy the mental satisfaction of knowing the cut is super ideal and, of course, super ideal vendors usually have the most generous upgrade policies. Plus they are basically guaranteed top performers, eliminating the need to vet diamonds, request additional images, run HCA scores, etc. But to imply that those who elect to go with GIA XXX diamonds "got less" is no different than implying that those who elected to go with an H color or VS2 clarity "got less". Different people have different priorities and/or aren't as sensitive to certain aspects and as long as people are educated and get what is important to them, I don't believe they "got less". This forum is great for helping folks find diamonds that meet their requirements, branded super ideals or not.

@krusty900 , it sounds like you may not be sensitive to the differences between a very nicely cut GIA XXX with very near super ideal specs vs. a branded super ideal. The folks on this forum will steer you in the right direction. If you post the certificate with the specs for the pre-loved diamond you are considering (and pics! we all love seeing pics! LOL), I am sure you will get honest feedback from the experts here. And congratulations on your impending engagement!
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top