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Thoughts on these two similar H VS2 1.2ct rounds?

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
Hi PS experts!

Like many others beginning their ER search, I've stumbled upon this forum several months ago and have poured through many threads to learn more. I've learned A LOT of interesting things from everyone here. In the last two months, two decent candidates that meet our general criteria. After looking in store and finding out all the diamonds that we looked at had quite poor GIA scores, I gave the jeweler my preferred proportions and they got back to me with these two.

Both are round brilliant cut stones with H, VS2, EX/EX/EX. The 1.22ct fits within the proportion parameters but I'm not loving the HCA score of 2.9. It is better than the other stones I looked at which were between a 3-4. Also, I'm worried about the cloudy inclusion; I will be comparing the two in-person next week. The 1.21ct has a much better HCA score (1.7) but a larger table size than what I've seen as recommended, so I'm worried about it looking like a flat top. The setting will be custom setting (cathedral setting with 6 claw prongs and three melee diamonds on each side).

My partner doesn't understand my obsession with wanting to get something that's the best bang for our buck, so he wants me to make a decision soon instead of going back and forth with the jeweler more than I already have. I hate having regrets with large purchases and want a diamond that is both eye-clean AND mind-clean. Hence me making this post - hopefully one of these two will have PS experts' blessing!

Assuming both stones are eye-clean in person, which one would you prefer? Individually, are either of them decent options, or should I heavily push to look at more options than I already have? Thanks in advance!

Diamond #1: 1.22 carat, H, VS2, EX/EX/EX (GIA link), $11680 CAD
Depth61.5 %
Table58 %
Crown Angle34.0°
Crown Height14.5%
Pavilion Angle41.2°
Pavilion Depth44.0%
Star Length50%
Lower Half80%
GirdleMedium, Faceted, 3.5%
CuletNone

Diamond #2: 1.21 carat, H, VS2, EX/EX/EX (GIA link), $11390 CAD
Depth59.3 %
Table61 %
Crown Angle32.5°
Crown Height12.5%
Pavilion Angle40.8°
Pavilion Depth43.0%
Star Length45%
Lower Half75%
GirdleMedium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
CuletNone


giacomparison.png
HCAcomparison.png
 

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
to be honest I wouldn't choose either of these (sorry!) Are you open to purchasing online?
May I ask why you wouldn't choose either? And if you were forced to choose one, which you'd go with?

We'd prefer not to purchase online for personal reasons.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,374
May I ask why you wouldn't choose either? And if you were forced to choose one, which you'd go with?

We'd prefer not to purchase online for personal reasons.
If forced to pick one, I would choose the one with the better HCA score I think, but it would be tough. Since we can't see either of these stones, I worry about the very low crown angle and the table being bigger than the depth on the 2nd one (I think this will end up not performing well in person). And the 1st one has a pavillion angle that is overly steep at 41.2.
 

anangel

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
601
HCA score on 1 is poor.
On two, there is a whole host of issues- diamond is shallow, table is huge with a shallow crown angle, so yes, it will be a flat top.
keep shopping
 

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
If forced to pick one, I would choose the one with the better HCA score I think, but it would be tough. Since we can't see either of these stones, I worry about the very low crown angle and the table being bigger than the depth on the 2nd one (I think this will end up not performing well in person). And the 1st one has a pavillion angle that is overly steep at 41.2.
HCA score on 1 is poor.
On two, there is a whole host of issues- diamond is shallow, table is huge with a shallow crown angle, so yes, it will be a flat top.
keep shopping
Thank you for the honesty, anangel and seaurchin!

I feel bad going back and forth with my jeweler. Is it gauche to bring up the HCA score and the concerns when I ask them to look for other options? I have felt bad already for asking them to look for stones with certain proportions.
 

anangel

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
601
Thank you for the honesty, anangel and seaurchin!

I feel bad going back and forth with my jeweler. Is it gauche to bring up the HCA score and the concerns when I ask them to look for other options? I have felt bad already for asking them to look for stones with certain proportions.
Why do you feel bad asking? If you’re not comfortable with the jeweler, you should find another you do feel comfortable with. This is a major purchase; Would you feel bad asking an auto broker to find you a car with less miles or in a different color? This is not that different- what you want exists, you just need someone to help you find it.
 

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
Why do you feel bad asking? If you’re not comfortable with the jeweler, you should find another you do feel comfortable with. This is a major purchase; Would you feel bad asking an auto broker to find you a car with less miles or in a different color? This is not that different- what you want exists, you just need someone to help you find it.
Very true! The jeweler has been nothing but pleasant in our correspondence. Perhaps COVID has impacted their supply and availability as all of what they've shown me has been between HCA score of 2-4 except for the flat top (Diamond #2). :confused2:
 

stonehunter20

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
316
if you wanted to get "the best bang for our buck", my understanding is that any carat weight that is slightly shy of the next tier will give you that. for example, if you go for something like 0.9x ct or 1.9x ct, or maybe even 1.4x ct? diamonds with such ct weights give you the "the best bang for our buck" because once the weight cross over 1ct, 2ct or even maybe 1.5ct, the price jumps significantly.
 

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
if you wanted to get "the best bang for our buck", my understanding is that any carat weight that is slightly shy of the next tier will give you that. for example, if you go for something like 0.9x ct or 1.9x ct, or maybe even 1.4x ct? diamonds with such ct weights give you the "the best bang for our buck" because once the weight cross over 1ct, 2ct or even maybe 1.5ct, the price jumps significantly.
Yes, I did factor that into consideration. Based on the budget, 1.2 ct is about the highest size we can go with the color and clarity, and I'd prefer as big of a centre stone as possible because my fingers are wider than the average lady :P2 We looked at a 0.9ct (because of what you said), but I think a 1.2ct looks better aesthetically on me. Thank you for the suggestion though!
 

Snowdrop13

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,006

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
I really hate to point this out BUT if you want “bang for buck” then for less money you could have a larger stone in a super ideal cut

Unfortunately in Canadian dollars, it works out to be about $3000 over our budget. It looks lovely though!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,341
Thank you for the honesty, anangel and seaurchin!

I feel bad going back and forth with my jeweler. Is it gauche to bring up the HCA score and the concerns when I ask them to look for other options? I have felt bad already for asking them to look for stones with certain proportions.
What proportions did you ask for?
 

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
What proportions did you ask for?
The recommended ones from various threads here and online (i.e. table % of 54-57, depth % of 61-63, crown angle of 34-35°, and pavilion angle of 40.6-41.0°). The one they sent me in response (Diamond #1) fits everything but the PA... Diamond #2 was something that we looked at before I asked them to be more particular.

I've emailed them requesting they look for other options that fit my parameters. Hopefully they'll find something; they did mention their supply has been low and will reach out to their suppliers for suitable ones.
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
364
Unfortunately in Canadian dollars, it works out to be about $3000 over our budget. It looks lovely though!
Where in Canada are you from ?

Martin @ USA Certed Diamonds is based out of Toronto and a recommended vendor on this forum. Are you tied to your local jeweler? If not I recommend you reach out to Martin he will work with your budget and find you an amazing performing stone with ideal parameters.
 

cakeeatingcat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
10
Where in Canada are you from ?

Martin @ USA Certed Diamonds is based out of Toronto and a recommended vendor on this forum. Are you tied to your local jeweler? If not I recommend you reach out to Martin he will work with your budget and find you an amazing performing stone with ideal parameters.
We're out in BC and are pretty set with the jeweler as my partner strongly prefers to purchase our ring in a brick and mortar stores to support the local economy. As well, he has vetoed making such a large purchase online due to past experiences with scams and shipping issues. Maybe I can wear him down over time if this jeweler ends up being too limited... :think:
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
364
We're out in BC and are pretty set with the jeweler as my partner strongly prefers to purchase our ring in a brick and mortar stores to support the local economy. As well, he has vetoed making such a large purchase online due to past experiences with scams and shipping issues. Maybe I can wear him down over time if this jeweler ends up being too limited... :think:
I’m also from Canada and was originally skeptical about looking online to make a significant diamond purchase. But the truth is usually most local jewellers will not source out well cut stones and the price will be inflated. With any big purchase in life you do your homework and research and want to feel like you got a quality item at a good price.

If you stick to these ideal parameters I recommend will keep you in the safe zone.

Table : 54 - 58
Depth : 60 - 62.3
Crown : 34 - 35
Pavillion: 40.6 - 40.9

Note.... with a shallow Crown Angle like 34 you want to pair that with a Pavillion Angle like 40.8 to 40.9 and vice versa a Crown with 35 you pair that with a Pavillion of 40.6
These angles are complimentary.

Nothing wrong with dealing with a local Jeweler if they can source a quality diamond with excellent light performance. First step is to present this information to your local jeweler and if they can find you a quality diamond the second step would be to ask for advanced images like Aset/Idealscope and a video of the diamond. Come back here and post the information here so the experts can tell you if you have a winner.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,601
It is your money and you are the customer. If he can't or won't find something that meets your requirements, you just have to move on. There are thousands of testimonials here on PS about buying online from certain well known vendors. Don't get boxed in with a jeweler or the idea of supporting a small business. We all like to do that if possible - as long as we would be getting what we want. There are probably more horror stories here to be found about getting locked into a jeweler, friend of the family jeweler, etc. than there are dissatisfied customers buying online. Upgrade policies are important too - you may think you will never want to do it but we've all said that a time or two - lol!
 
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