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This old pro would like your thoughts

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Wink, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Wink
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Wink » Feb 11, 2019
    Dear all,

    If nothing else becomes achieved here, your generous thoughts helped me get a decent night’s sleep.

    You are all making it abundantly clear that I need to change my attitude regarding verbal versus written communications. Explaining the impossibility of me, or any store, paying full retail for something bought elsewhere happened on the phone. We had several such conversations about offers for her stone and value. Likewise, her request to have the higher value on the invoice was done by phone. Mea culpa. This will change how I do things.

    The concept some of you are bringing about finding a replacement diamond and proposing that is interesting to me. I’m honestly willing to try anything which leaves us both whole. I do not want acrimony. I’d also prefer a resolution without legal counsel, although I am reading every word carefully.

    Thank you very much for the suggestions, all of them.

    Wink
     
  2. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by blueMA » Feb 11, 2019
    The money she paid is $50K. Her trade-in diamond isn't the money she paid. That transaction is rock-solid with the $70K you received for selling it which you have the paper documentation for. At most, your simple "yes" reply may have cost you the $1,500 for the trip.

    She is a swindler. You can't logic with such person. No sane individual would be asking for the full retail value of a used diamond. If any, you should be paid for the consignment fee for selling the stone on her behalf.

    Consult an attorney (consultations are usually FREE), know your right and possible legal recource, and stand your ground.
    I'm so sorry this happened to you, but I'm on the stance that I don't let someone take advantage of my good wills, even if that'll cost a few of my vacations. It comes down to the principles.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  3. blueMA
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    by blueMA » Feb 11, 2019
    You're dealing with very high value transactions, so such precaution is a must and I'm surprised you haven't felt the need until now.
    Watching Jerry Maguire might be a good refresher ;)).
     
  4. ccuheartnurse
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by ccuheartnurse » Feb 11, 2019
    Wink, so very sorry to hear you going through such a ridiculous set of circumstances. I'm not a lawyer but common sense should prevail that she gets what she paid. I can't go into Macy's to get a refund for a $75 pair of shoes ( with a receipt proving I paid $75) but demanding that I get $100 today because the shoes are no longer on sale & are regular price. :angryfire::angryfire:

    I hope you find the resolution that you seek. :))
     
    


    


  5. HappyNewLife
    Ideal_Rock

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    by HappyNewLife » Feb 11, 2019
    heck no. She should only get the $70K + the amount she actually paid for the diamond. I wouldn't hesitate to stand firm and let her come at you legally. Should her banking records be subpoenaed, it will show what she actually paid. She's ridiculous.
     
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  6. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Feb 11, 2019
    Sorry you going through this Wink, your in our prayers.
     
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  7. Laila619
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    by Laila619 » Feb 11, 2019
    Hi Wink! I do not think you need a lawyer YET.
    I would be firm with her and matter-of-factly state what her total refund will be. No more emails back and forth. Just send her the correct refund and be done with it. Wait and see what happens. Unless she declares that she's taking you to court (highly doubtful IMO), don't do anything else right now.

    I'm so sorry for your troubles. You bought a diamond back from me several years ago, and you were nothing but a professional, courteous gentleman. I suspect this customer is trying to take advantage of your kind and generous nature, and hoping you will eventually give in (just like a bratty child demanding and nagging her parents, hoping to wear them down). She is ridiculous and needs to be set straight.
     
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  8. rockysalamander
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    by rockysalamander » Feb 11, 2019
    I routinely discuss important things over the phone as my job can be quite technical. To keep a record and ensure understanding, I have long had the habit of following such conversations with an email that goes over what was discussed (the purpose of the call) and important items I want to be recorded and or are awaiting clarification from them. I'm clear in such written correspondence on things like action items, questions, and such. I have subsequently been involved in a number of hearings and enforcement matters, and these emails have served me well. Even when I misunderstood something said on the phone, the email summary and response offered the other party to that email provided a logical pathway. You can still have that personal relationship via the phone and personal visits, but you have documentation of what you said or agreed to. I am not suggesting, however, that you negotiate by email. Egads no! Simply record milestone events and summarize "fact" and "questions" along the pathway.

    This has been on my mind all day, so while we PS member cannot solve your problem, perhaps we can continue to offer comfort by your knowing we are here for you.
     
  9. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Feb 11, 2019
    It is sad that a gentleman (or lady) can no longer rely on another's word.

    It is yet another depressing situation whereby if we can't prove something with a video/picture/recording, it apparently didn't happen and/or others won't believe you :roll: which I presume is why CCTV is blanketing the world (yet actually preventing very few crimes from happening) and everyone insists on recording everything on their bloody iphones/ipads (srsly??)/dash cams...

    [/rant]
     
  10. rockysalamander
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    by rockysalamander » Feb 11, 2019
    I agree. It is quite sad that this is the world we will pass to the next generations....
     
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  11. Dancing Fire
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    by Dancing Fire » Feb 11, 2019
    Yup, When I bought my wife's 3ct stone from GOG in 2005 the appraiser insisted for me to take the stone home with me after I look at the stone in his office. :o.He said he I don't wanna be responsible for the stone. So once I got home I called Jon and told him what had happened. I think he fainted[​IMG] on the other end of the phone :lol: b/c I haven't pay for the stone yet.

    Anyway, I told Jon I'm not a crook, either I'll return your stone within the next 3 days or I'll wire you the money. Jon's mom was piss when she called to speak with me, she said.. I'll send the mafia looking for you if I don't get my stone back ..:lol:. I decided to purchase the stone and wired the money to Jon within 48 hrs. I should have kept the stone for 30 days so that Jon and his mom couldn't sleep for 30 days..:devil:
     
  12. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by blueMA » Feb 11, 2019
    :lol::lol::lol:
     
  13. bmfang
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    by bmfang » Feb 11, 2019
    After reading all the above, to say that I am incredibly pissed off at what has happened to you @Wink would be a gross understatement. Like others, I would really recommend seeking legal counsel to formulate a plan of attack/defence.

    In all things in life, one can always learn from situations. Hopefully they aren’t painful ones but this one appears to be. I am hoping and praying that your revised procedures when dealing with such large value transactions will prevent such a crook from putting you through this situation again.

    As for the swindler, they will get what’s coming to them. Karma/The Golden Rule can be a real bitch if people aren’t careful.

    You will be in my prayers for a very speedy resolution.
     
  14. kmoro
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kmoro » Feb 11, 2019
    @Wink - never enjoyable, but you can record your phone calls if you let the other party know and get their permission.

    Good luck & Please keep us posted on how this turns out!
     
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  15. Garry H (Cut Nut)
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Feb 11, 2019
    My best mate was a VP of IBM and is super smart. He taught me many years ago to be first.

    First to reply in writting outlining any conversation. Be it in a formal meeting or negotiation, or over the phone conversation.
    Even if you sway the account slightly in your favor, most times no one challenges your account and hence you have recorded the 'facts'.
     
    


    


  16. violet3
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    by violet3 » Feb 11, 2019
    This. Every word. I work in real estate, and people do weird stuff when it comes to money - this really seems like a scam to me. If you have an attorney, I'd call him/her now and I would NOT refund that extra money. This is not right, and she knows that.
     
  17. elizat
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    by elizat » Feb 11, 2019
    Lawyer here, but not in Idaho (Florida). I would stop emailing her. I would prepare a detailed but concise letter outlining her purchase, what was agreed, the figures and attach the documents as exhibits that support it. I would include what you told her as well. I would make it brief as possible, factual and firm. I would advise her that you will only refund what she actually paid, which is evidenced by the paper trail. I would then send that certified mail and regular mail. I can include a loupe Troup listing if you or your folks want more help on drafting the letter. But I would not engage with her by phone or email and I would not try to find her a new stone. This is about refunding what she spent. Not making her feel good.
     
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  18. elizat
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by elizat » Feb 11, 2019
    And when I say brief, I mean focus on facts and what the documents say, keeping any emotion or anger out. Be concise, yet appropriately detailed where it counts.
     
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  19. AprilBaby
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    by AprilBaby » Feb 11, 2019
    Give her back what she paid and cut off communication. Let her try to sue you. She hasn’t got a case.
     
  20. Laila619
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    by Laila619 » Feb 11, 2019
    Yep, exactly.

    No more talking to her. Hope everything works out, Wink.
     
  21. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Feb 12, 2019
    This really can't be emphasized enough. FWIW, I've personally found it beneficial to first write out your emotional response. Do not hold back! Complete the entire letter.

    Once you are done and proofed it to your satisfaction, delete it!

    Now write the letter a 2nd time. This time being factual and with brevity. Proof. Sleep on it if time allows. Have a trusted mentor or advisor read it. Then send.

    Sounds completely silly but I've found it to be a very effective method of written communications.

    That and I had a mentor several years back that would look like he murdered up my letters from all the red ink, lol. I still remember the pride I felt when he gave me a letter back and said good job with no mark ups. Not long after, I had others coming to me asking for help on those matters.

    Written communication can be tough, but is so important especially in today's world.
     
  22. tigertales
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    by tigertales » Feb 12, 2019
    You're under no obligation to "make whole". You haven't incurred any damages. A judge would only require that you return the cash payment and the agreed upon resale value of the diamond, not the inflated "original" value. Travel expenses were on the condition of sale, so NO obligation there. She forfeited that perk.
    In fact, one could argue you could sue her for detrimental reliance if this fiasco caused you significant business losses or other problems.

    Next move is hers. Expect a temper tantrum. But, be assured, she's all bark no bite and knows it. Line up an attorney to bolster your strength and self assurance, and if need be, to write her a 'nice' letter.


    Peace.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  23. Jimmianne
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    by Jimmianne » Feb 12, 2019
     
  24. Chris_BE
    Rough_Rock
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    by Chris_BE » Feb 12, 2019
    Dearest Wink,

    I'd like to suggest something a bit different that I can state helped me, when something similar happened to me a couple of years back and it's served me well until today......

    You are a spiritual being living in a physical body, all the answers are within you, they are your higher self or your higher mental factors such as reason, free will, memory, imagination and choice. I suggest the following 3 things for 30 days;

    1. Write down 10 things that you are grateful for every day.
    2. Send Love to 3 people or things that are causing you difficulty
    3. Take 3 Minutes of silence to ask yourself for guidance within

    Remember that you cannot change what has happened therefore forgive yourself and let go of the negativity caused by this situation and think of all the good that you have and the joy you bring to your clients with your wonderful diamonds. I have most recently made 2 rings for your beautiful diamonds and you've brought me joy without knowing....

    Proceed with confidence and live life with joy and I know that this too shall pass.

    ~Chris
     
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  25. natasha-cupcake
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    by natasha-cupcake » Feb 12, 2019
    Beautifully stated, Chris. This deserves repeating.
     
  26. Lookinagain
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    by Lookinagain » Feb 12, 2019
    This is the same advice I would have given. Do not engage anymore with this person other than sending a letter with the back up evidence of what she paid, what was emailed about the transaction and a short narrative of what transpired by telephone. Nothing more. Don't apologize, don't offer a settlement. Do not search for a new diamond for her.
    It would seem to me that any return and refund would need to be through an intermediary who can verify that the stone returned is the same one you sold to her and is undamaged. Do not refund anything until the stone is out of her hands and into the hands of the intermediary and confirmed.
    My guess is that she will not agree to take the lesser, actual paid, amount. So then there is a stalemate. She keeps the diamond and you keep the money which is where you started. If it is to move past that, she would have to initiate some court action which could cost her a lot more than what she is trying to steal from you.
     
  27. Athena10X
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    by Athena10X » Feb 12, 2019
    Wink, having personally worked with you and your amazing staff, it angers me to see others who would take advantage of your kindness and generosity. I hope this client doesn’t sour your relationships with and approach to working with the greater community that does appreciate you and your honest services, which is already hard to come by in this industry. I am with those advising you to seek legal counsel, and wish you the best in resolving this horrible matter amicably.

    Because I have not met your client, I cannot speak to her character, but I hope she realizes (if she is of sane mind) that her endeavor is borderline criminal and that she drops her heinous pursuit of swindling you. However, if she is crazy, there’s no negotiating and you may need to lawyer up. In fact, I think the mention of consulting with your lawyer may set her back.
     
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  28. LinSF
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    by LinSF » Feb 12, 2019
    This, exactly. Like others have said, you can't rationalize with a crazy person.

    I still think you are in the right entirely and can squash this is a very clear, concise communication (agree with others who have said certified mail).
     
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  29. ctsamg
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    by ctsamg » Feb 12, 2019
    You've received lots of great comments, so I don't have much to offer. It sounds like your customer is only looking at it through her lense, which is a shame.

    However, the next time you are in the mood to fly someone out, rent them a huge diamond and then pay them, I'd love to be your first call.
     
  30. LightBright
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    by LightBright » Feb 12, 2019
    Hi Wink, I just wanted to thank you for your above and beyond service to me during my CBI purchase at HPD, and say that I hope this matter ends amicably and fairly for you. You deserve better than to have your extraordinary generosity taken advantage of. All the best and hoping for a speedy and satisfactory resolution for you.
     
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