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This old pro would like your thoughts

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Wink, Feb 10, 2019 at 12:02 PM.

  1. marcy
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by marcy » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:08 PM
    That is really poor; sounds like she is hustling you. I feel she is only entitled to the money she actually spent and definitely should not be reimbursed for her trip to Boise.
     
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  2. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:09 PM
    So she wants you to reimburse her imaginary money that was not transacted? She sounds like a grifter.

    Do you have a receipt for the amount you sold her original diamond for? Make sure she sees that.
     
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  3. Wink
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Wink » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:12 PM
    Dear Pricescope Friends,

    Thank you for the comments received so far. I expect conflicting opinions as well, and will be equally receptive as I want to hear those thoughts. I would request that all those posting here will also be respectful of divergent opinions. This is a very educated jewelry-specific community and I appreciate all thoughts.

    It may indeed be that using the inflated amount on the invoice may ultimately torpedo me. I never suspected it would be used this way. She said in-person that she never expected to return her new diamond. She knew her old diamond must be sold immediately and could not come back. And yes, I do have the invoice and wire-confirmation showing the $70K which I received for it. I can forward those to her.

    I very much appreciate the words regarding my character. Thank you. I may wind up eating this mistake, but it was truly an honest mistake. I never intended harm.

    Wink
     
  4. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:15 PM
    By the way, I’m pretty sure she would have zero argument in court... she would MAKE money off of a return, so even if she threatens that, I wouldn’t worry about it.

    I don’t think her point would fly in court.
     
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  5. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:18 PM
    Also, her trading in her diamond for 85% value (which is great) is a separate transaction from her returning the CBI.

    She can’t connect the two. She is only reimbursed for the 85% of value and she knew that on the front end.
     
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  6. Jelly88
    Rough_Rock

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    by Jelly88 » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:25 PM
    Did she tell you why she’s decided to return the diamond?
     
  7. natasha-cupcake
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by natasha-cupcake » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:27 PM
    This woman's conduct is despicable. Who would expect to make a profit when returning merchandise? Could this have been a premeditated scam? Did this person threaten to ruin your business reputation? If so, you may be a victim of fraud and extortion. I would consult a lawyer (if you haven't already) before letting this person take any further advantage of your good nature. Sickening!
     
  8. luv2sparkle
    Ideal_Rock

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    by luv2sparkle » Feb 10, 2019 at 3:32 PM
    I am going to add my thoughts before I read all the replies. I think what she is asking of you is downright wrong. Since you paid for her trip to come to Boise and she viewed the diamond in person, the diamond should not be returnable. Upgradeable, yes, returnable no. She has no right to money not paid by her, nor money back that includes the trip. It was a one time deal that was above and beyond gracious by you Wink. I would not expect or ask for my trip to be paid if I wanted to see a diamond in person. That is her choice. Just reading this story infuriates me. Everything she did is wrong wrong wrong, and I hope that you don't give in to her demands. You were beyond fair.

    Now I will go back and read all the responses.
     
  9. smitcompton
    Ideal_Rock

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    by smitcompton » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:00 PM
    Hi,

    I do not believe the law itself allows you to become more than whole. Keep your records and send a nice e-mail, carefully worded, that you will return x amount of dollars, but that is as far as you will go. Do not give her one dollar more than she spent. The trip is on her. She will fold. She is trying to cheat. There is no question in my mind. You will not lose in court.

    You are a very nice man. Don't get taken. Not one dollar more!

    Annette
     
  10. nala
    Ideal_Rock

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    by nala » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:14 PM
    I haven’t read all the replies. But. Do you have documentation for her sale of the diamond? If so, that takes care of that part. Now if you have a receipt for what she paid, that takes care of that. Can it be that simple?
     
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  11. prs
    Shiny_Rock

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    by prs » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:22 PM
    All I can say is to make absolutely sure it's your stone you have in hand before sending any money to this person!
     
  12. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:25 PM
    Exactly right. She wants to be made more than whole, which is absurd.
     
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  13. marymm
    Ideal_Rock

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    by marymm » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:27 PM
    I am trying to imagine how the actual invoice/purchase receipt is written for this transaction. Assuming it reflects the reality of the transaction, i.e., purchase amount for new stone minus the credits for trade-in stone and for Boise travel, and that the Boise travel credit is defined in the receipt or an email as dependent on keeping the new stone, it should be a straight-forward refund amount (regardless of any "value" figure you included on the invoice).

    I agree with the many other posters, the buyer is not entitled to a refund of more than she actually paid. By your posts, neither is she entitled to keep the Boise travel credit.

    If I were you, and if I had a clear invoice documenting the terms of the purchase plus the email agreement regarding the Boise travel credit being contingent on keeping the newly purchased diamond, I'd prepare a letter enclosing a copy of the invoice, a copy of the documentation relating to the Boise travel, and a brief letter stating you understand she wishes to return the diamond, and upon receipt of the returned diamond and your examination confirming it is in the same condition as sold, you will refund her monies paid equalling $XXXXXX (which figure should be footnoted to indicate the refund amount reflects the fact the Boise travel credit no longer applies since the diamond is being returned). Mail the letter to the buyer via USPS certified/return receipt mail.

    Should the buyer not choose to avail herself of the return/refund which you proffer, she can do what she likes ... and if it does go to court, you will prevail (if the facts and documentation do indeed bear out your version of the transaction).

    Good luck.

    This a timely reminder to everyone, buyer and seller, to be certain you review purchase/invoices for accuracy and completeness, and to not move forward with transactions until the documentation matches the reality. This is particularly crucial in high-dollar and/or complicated transactions.
     
  14. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by yssie » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:31 PM
    What a ridiculous story.

    "[...] on the whole amount of money I paid for my new diamond." - you've given her that already, and her asking for more is thoroughly unreasonable.

    Please contact a lawyer Wink. I don't know what her motives are, but I do know that one can't communication rationally with an irrational person, and one can't communicate honestly with a thief.
     
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  15. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Dancing Fire » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:34 PM
    Wink
    Sorry to hear this horrible story. I wouldn't refund her a penny more than ($48,500) for the difference of your CBI., and no I wouldn't pay for her trip to ID.
    Hope everything works out for you.
     
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  16. Wewechew
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Wewechew » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:41 PM
    You need to get a lawyer involved ASAP.
     
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  17. MeowMeow
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by MeowMeow » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:45 PM
    @Wink Not a lawyer so I don't have any thoughts. Just well wishes and hope that all this gets cleared up speedily so that you no longer have to stress about this.
     
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  18. DAF
    Shiny_Rock

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    by DAF » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:50 PM
    To borrow a quote, she sounds like a swindler. She said that she wouldn't return your diamond, and she knew hers was going away right away. She asked for an inflated receipt. It sounds as though she's going to be taking the vacation here - on your dime. While I understand you have transacted with her for over 40 years, you were upfront and honest with her, as long as you have email proof of the conditions, I'd say "No way, Jose!". The deal is not unilateral, it goes both ways. She has to hold up her end of the deal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019 at 5:04 PM
  19. foxinsox
    Ideal_Rock

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    by foxinsox » Feb 10, 2019 at 4:56 PM
    @Wink I’m not in the US so won’t comment on the legal stuff but she sounds like she is hustling you. Please speak to a contracts lawyer or any sort of lawyer who is properly placed to advise you on your legal obligations. In this matter, your client is not acting in good faith. I do not think you need to continue acting as if she is now that she’s made this ridiculous claim. It will cost you less overall to engage a professional than to continue engaging with her if she’s not dealing honestly with you.
     
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  20. sparlie
    Rough_Rock

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    by sparlie » Feb 10, 2019 at 5:01 PM
    I am so sorry you have to deal with this. The saddest part of this is that you always seem like such a nice person who goes out of their way to help other people and that going forward you might not be as trusting of others. I agree that you do not owe her any additional money and that she is trying to take advantage of you and I believe she planned this all along. What a terrible person.
     
  21. Miss Marple
    Rough_Rock

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    by Miss Marple » Feb 10, 2019 at 5:03 PM
    So sorry to hear abou this situation. On its face, the customer sounds completely unreasonable. I'm assuming that the attempt to return is within the return window, so you cannot simply point to that policy and be done.

    Not legal advice, but in your shoes, I would gather any and all written communication-- whether by email, or to ext or chat. I'd organize the communications by date and time and use t to put together a succinct statement of facts. If I had to guess, there is room for a smart lawyer to make either argument based on the text of the communications, but at the end of the day it just does not make sense that you would agree to refund more than you received n the transaction.

    My reason to put together the background is to make sure that I have all the facts straight in my head. I would not be inclined to share the summary with the customer. The customer does not sound like a person who will be swayed by reason in any case. I would simply reiterate my position regarding refund amount. Unlike some other posters, I would give some thought as to whether it would be worth eating the cost of the customer's trip as a gesture of goodwill, but I would make it clear that any such gesture is nothing more than goodwill and certainly not an admission of anything.

    I would also make sure to document any future discussions with the customer. If a phone call, then follow up with an email summarizing your understanding of the discussion. It documents your position and gives the customer a chance to provide their own interpretation-- which may or may not be reasonable but at least you have it in writing at that point and can respond that you disagree.

    And as others have said, I would carefully document any return of the stone., including by taking a video of the original box and your opening of the box, checking the stone, etc.

    It's unfortunate that you're dealing with this. As an aside, I have a friend with a small business who tried to be a nice and work with a customer. The friend ended up out of pocket in an amount several times the amount in question here due to the customer's bad faith actions. Doesn't help you, but wanted to share that you would not be the first small business owner to end up in a bad situation by trying to do the right thing.
     
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  22. Lykame
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Lykame » Feb 10, 2019 at 5:19 PM
    I'm absolutely flabberghasted on your behalf, @Wink. I can only agree with everyone else - you should only be paying back what you were actually given. You're not an insurance company, you're not meant to be paying back the 'overinflated' amount. Unbelievable - I have no belief that she is doing anything other than trying to swindle you and I feel sure that what she is trying to get you to do is not within the eye of the law.

    I'm really hoping @MollyMalone will chip in - but if she is not able to (busy lady I'm very sure) - and even if she is - you really need a lawyer to support you with this. Please don't pay anything to this lady before getting legal support. You have a heart of gold - please don't let that heart further bury you in this. You may just want this situation to 'go away' but that's not the correct thing to do in this situation.

    Man do I wish we could crowdfund you - I would buy into that. :geek2:
     
  23. gm89uk
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by gm89uk » Feb 10, 2019 at 5:29 PM
    But this also works against her as there is correspondence of the agreement to change the sale price. If it was pursued, the invoice of how much she paid is different to the agreed amount. So really it could be turned on her that she owes Wink $13k...
     
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  24. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Feb 10, 2019 at 5:41 PM
    True, the entire conversation about it seems to have been documented, so it would be clear to anyone that she is trying to make money off of this, which is odd and devious.
     
  25. Swirl68
    Rough_Rock

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    by Swirl68 » Feb 10, 2019 at 5:44 PM
    I'm curious, are there any legal ramifications for inflating a trade-in price on a receipt for a customer? If you took this matter to court, could you be opening a whole can of worms for your business? (It might look as though you were helping her avoid some sales tax, for instance, and you could be in trouble for that.) She may think she has you over a barrel and you will not take it to court for this reason. Isn't this a little bit like blackmail though?
     
  26. InsecureSweetGirl
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by InsecureSweetGirl » Feb 10, 2019 at 6:03 PM
    Wishing you all the best @Wink

    I wonder how many other jewellers have been cheated by her. We should make an internet registry of people who try this so the next company can dodge them.
     
  27. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Feb 10, 2019 at 7:19 PM
    What is paid is what is paid. I'd say you are safe from such ridiculous requests!

    How long does 'buyer's remorse' last for 120K ?
     
  28. the_mother_thing
    Ideal_Rock

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    by the_mother_thing » Feb 10, 2019 at 7:29 PM
    @Wink I hate to read this thread, and that it appears someone is attempting to take advantage of your kindness. There’s so much great information & advice in this thread, so I won’t restate all of that, but I would echo those who suggest gathering up all of your documentation, emails, receipts, etc. and consulting with an attorney ASAP. I might go so far as to suggest that you inform your client you are having your attorney review the transaction, and will be back in touch following that review. This is just so that you don’t inadvertently say something to her that could be used against you in any sort of litigation if she were to pursue such. Maybe the attorney could draft up something outlining the conditions/terms of the return of the diamond, amount of money due to whom, etc., and present that to her.

    Honestly, as far-fetched as it may sound, this whole situation sounds to me like a person who’s trying to potentially launder money/diamonds. Just curious, is there some sort of database check you do when taking a diamond in that for trade to confirm it’s ‘legit’ (e.g, not stolen, etc.)? I understand if you can’t or don’t want to disclose business processes, but something about this transaction just sounds ‘orchestrated’ and triggers my spidey sense.

    Best wishes this situation is resolved expeditiously and fairly for all involved. :pray:
     
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  29. yennyfire
    Ideal_Rock

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    by yennyfire » Feb 10, 2019 at 7:52 PM
    Aww Wink...I think you’ve been given sound advice here. I just wanted to tell you that I’m sorry you’re in this position and hope that it is resolved quickly and as painlessly as possible for you.
     
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  30. Lovesparklesparle
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Lovesparklesparle » Feb 10, 2019 at 8:01 PM
    It sounds like she is a hustler and she never intended to see the purchase through. No reasonable person would ever make demands like this. I would refund her what she actually paid you not what she believes she is entitled to, and not reimburse her for the cost of the trip.

    Yes you slipped up in the email but your original contract of agreement should still hold.


    Don’t jerk your knee and give her the money whatever you do. She is counting on this. If she is serious she will need to engage a lawyer and cough up some of her own money to recover the additional money she claims to be entitled to. Then you take it from there. This will hopefully be enough of a deterrent for her and she will stop clutching at straws.

    This woman is ridiculous.
     
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