This 9ct OEC would cure my DSS once and for all

[Phoenix]

I came across this monstrous OEC at a recent jewellery show. I wasn't looking for a diamond, and just happened to come across it. It was HUGE and beautiful! It was love at first sight! I tried to put it out of my mind but couldn't. So here I am ...

It's a bit warmer. My eyes said a K or even an L. The vendor said J. Clarity is SI and absolutely eye-clean. No fluor though . It might need a bit of a re-polish but I couldn't see any discernible damage or chipping, just some very tiny 'bites' on the girdle. It's enormous (did I already say that, lol?! ), I reckon it must measure about 13mm in diameter or thereabout. It'd be a party piece, certainly not everyday wear (Holly is currently doing that job very nicely, bless her ). It's currently uncerted and the vendor said they'd send it to GIA for certification if I am genuinely interested.

(I'd have to have a firesale on my 3.02ct F, my two 2.30ct J's, 2.656ct H and the stuff at JbEG - and then I'd still have to top up some more and put my current projects on hold. But it'd be totally worth it not least b/c it's quite attractively priced, assuming this OEC diamond stands up to scrutiny).

Please give me your input & opinions on this diamond, particularly regarding its body colour. I didn't notice it at the time but upon seeing the profile pic, I am wondering if it's more grey than brown.

Here are some cr*ppy pics taken on my cell phone. I will ask the vendor for more (decent) pics.

So first off, some pics with flash:

 

[Phoenix]

Another pic, this time with no flash but still horrible quality . I think the "blob" at just past 6 o'clock is not an inclusion, must be a reflection of something. The diamond is also seriously in need of a thorough cleaning.

 

[Phoenix]

The 9ct OEC is on my finger next to Holly in this pic. It is much much larger than Holly, but for some reason the difference doesn't really show in this pic...must be the angles and positioning of the stones...

 

[Phoenix]

Last pic for now...profile view. See what I mean about the grey body colour? For ease of reference, Holly is a mid-H.

 

[Mico]

Wowza

 

[ForteKitty]

Hard to say what color it is under that lighting. Can you get some pictures in natural daylight? That "blob" is probably the culet reflection, but I think I may see some girdle reflection in some of the pictures.

 

[arkieb1]

Hard to say what color it is under that lighting. Can you get some pictures in natural daylight? That "blob" is probably the culet reflection, but I think I may see some girdle reflection in some of the pictures.

+ 1 I can't tell the body hue under that lighting either. There are certain types of lighting, certain types of small downlights and some fluoros for example that make all stones irrespective of colour get a yellowy greenish tint to them. You need to do it either outside or upside down next to holly against a white piece of paper folded to make an L shape. Put the stones against the fold line and take a pic.

I love the setting it is in btw!!!

 

[Phoenix]

Hard to say what color it is under that lighting. Can you get some pictures in natural daylight? That "blob" is probably the culet reflection, but I think I may see some girdle reflection in some of the pictures.

I agree about the lighting. I will ask the vendor for pictures in natural daylight (I can't take more pics myself since the vendor is located overseas). I think you may be right about the "blob". Where do you see girdle reflection though? Could you possibly pls circle it?

Thanks.

 

[arkieb1]

Maybe see if you can get them to take a couple upside down against a white piece of paper next to a couple of other stones if they have them as well, so if they have something they swear is a G or an F for example that would also help.... you will get a much better idea of tint, tone and colour against a white piece of paper and a line up of whiter coloured stones.

 

[Phoenix]

Hard to say what color it is under that lighting. Can you get some pictures in natural daylight? That "blob" is probably the culet reflection, but I think I may see some girdle reflection in some of the pictures.

+ 1 I can't tell the body hue under that lighting either. There are certain types of lighting, certain types of small downlights and some fluoros for example that make all stones irrespective of colour get a yellowy greenish tint to them. You need to do it either outside or upside down next to holly against a white piece of paper folded to make an L shape. Put the stones against the fold line and take a pic.

Alas, I can't take more pics myself! It was the last day of the jewellery show and I went there to look at emeralds, so was not prepared. Didn't take any white grading paper (have loads at home, even have a master-set too).

I shall ask the vendor to take more pics, including those of this stone next to various other colours in their collection and/or master-set. They seemed quite professional, not too pushy (had loads more antique stones - I was in Heaven!! ).

 

[Phoenix]

Maybe see if you can get them to take a couple upside down against a white piece of paper next to a couple of other stones if they have them as well, so if they have something they swear is a G or an F for example that would also help.... you will get a much better idea of tint, tone and colour against a white piece of paper and a line up of whiter coloured stones.

I will do that. Thank you.

 

[arkieb1]

Last pic for now...profile view. See what I mean about the grey body colour? For ease of reference, Holly is a mid-H.

Your H looks greyish in this pics as well, so I don't think its an accurate indication. For the record however, I have an L bordering on an M and this OEC looks less tinted than it does side on, but it looks like a similar colour in the pics under the downlights.... I'd go out on a limb and say its no lower than a low K, but you would have to get it against a white background under non yellow lighting to know for sure. My stone looks less coloured out in natural daylight btw.

 

[Phoenix]

Last pic for now...profile view. See what I mean about the grey body colour? For ease of reference, Holly is a mid-H.

Your H looks greyish in this pics as well, so I don't think its an accurate indication. For the record however, I have an L bordering on an M and this OEC looks less tinted than it does side on, but it looks like a similar colour in the pics under the downlights.... I'd go out on a limb and say its no lower than a low K, but you would have to get it against a white background under non yellow lighting to know for sure. My stone looks less coloured out in natural daylight btw.

Say it isn't so!!




Only kidding! I know Holly isn't.

I think you're right. Actually, when you look at the background, that looks greyish too, doesn't it? I'd love to see pics of your L-M if I may?

 

[Hera]

Hard to tell anything from these pics. As others have said, you need better pics, preferably up close, centered and without the lighting/flash. I agree with Fortekitty on the possible girdle reflection. It's possibly there showing itself as a slightly mushy area around the table area. Whether it's girdle reflection or tilt girdle reflection is still questionable.

If you mostly like what you see, request a lab report on it. Then, after it comes back MANY color grades lower than they said, resume the pricing negotiations.

 

[arkieb1]

Last pic for now...profile view. See what I mean about the grey body colour? For ease of reference, Holly is a mid-H.

Your H looks greyish in this pics as well, so I don't think its an accurate indication. For the record however, I have an L bordering on an M and this OEC looks less tinted than it does side on, but it looks like a similar colour in the pics under the downlights.... I'd go out on a limb and say its no lower than a low K, but you would have to get it against a white background under non yellow lighting to know for sure. My stone looks less coloured out in natural daylight btw.

Say it isn't so!!




Only kidding! I know Holly isn't.

I think you're right. Actually, when you look at the background, that looks greyish too, doesn't it? I'd love to see pics of your L-M if I may?

You and I both know Holly isn't tinted!!! So it HAS to be the lighting and background. I haven't posted any pics as yet because mine is still unset. Do you want me to put a couple onto here or is that threadjacking?

 

[Phoenix]

Hard to tell anything from these pics. As others have said, you need better pics, preferably up close, centered and without the lighting/flash. I agree with Fortekitty on the possible girdle reflection. It's possibly there showing itself as a slightly mushy area around the table area. Whether it's girdle reflection or tilt girdle reflection is still questionable.

If you mostly like what you see, request a lab report on it. Then, after it comes back MANY color grades lower than they said, resume the pricing negotiations.

Would you mind elaborating on the bolded part? I think I know what you mean by "mush" (it basically means the facets are not so clear and muddled up/ pushed against or on top of each other, is that right?), but am not sure what you and Fortekitty mean by "girdle reflection" and I still don't see it.

I loved it but I'd like to know that the cut is decent and it's not mushy. I'm not planning on selling it (if I do get it), but I'd like to ensure that it is something "sellable" should I need to.

I will ask the vendor and see what they say.

Thank you.

 

[Phoenix]

[quote="arkieb1|You and I both know Holly isn't tinted!!! So it HAS to be the lighting and background. I haven't posted any pics as yet because mine is still unset. Do you want me to put a couple onto here or is that threadjacking?[/quote]

LOL!

I'd LOVE to see some pics of yours, the more the better. Please threadjack away (well, technically it isn't b/c it's at the request of the OP - me! )

 

[Hera]

Hard to tell anything from these pics. As others have said, you need better pics, preferably up close, centered and without the lighting/flash. I agree with Fortekitty on the possible girdle reflection. It's possibly there showing itself as a slightly mushy area around the table area. Whether it's girdle reflection or tilt girdle reflection is still questionable.

If you mostly like what you see, request a lab report on it. Then, after it comes back MANY color grades lower than they said, resume the pricing negotiations.

Would you mind elaborating on the bolded part? I think I know what you mean by "mush" (it basically means the facets are not so clear and muddled up/ pushed against or on top of each other, is that right?), but am not sure what you and Fortekitty mean by "girdle reflection" and I still don't see it.

I loved it but I'd like to know that it's a decent cut and not mushy. I'm not planning on selling it (if I do get it), but I'd like to ensure that it is something "sellable" should I need to.

I will ask the vendor and see what they say.

Thank you.

I'm seeing it in picture #1 at the very bottom of the table. See that sort of gray/frosted/cloudy area? Picture #3 at the top of the table, same thing (and more possibly so than pic #1). It could just be the pictures, though.
Also, I'm having trouble making the arrows out. This could be the lighting but you definitely want to see more arrows.
Disorganized bezel facets.
Verdict will have to be postponed til you get better pics.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm seeing it in picture #1 at the very bottom of the table. See that sort of gray/frosted/cloudy area? Picture #3 at the top of the table, same thing (and more possibly so than pic #1). It could just be the pictures, though.
Also, I'm having trouble making the arrows out. This could be the lighting but you definitely want to see more arrows.
Disorganized bezel facets.
Verdict will have to be postponed til you get better pics.

Ah ok, I see what you mean now about the gray/ frosted/ cloudy area - fwiw, I don't remember any but can't be 100% sure. It might just be the pictures. This is what you mean by girdle reflection yeah?

I also see what you mean about disorganised bezel facets - this is what you mean by "mush", correct? Does "mush" also mean lack of well-defined arrows?

Again fwiw, all these pics were taken at an angle/ tilted. But I am not an expert on old cuts and haven't seen a huge number. I shall for sure ask vendor for more pics (inglg straight-on ones, not tilted) as well as certification.

Thank you again. Appreciate it.

 

[Hera]

I'm seeing it in picture #1 at the very bottom of the table. See that sort of gray/frosted/cloudy area? Picture #3 at the top of the table, same thing (and more possibly so than pic #1). It could just be the pictures, though.
Also, I'm having trouble making the arrows out. This could be the lighting but you definitely want to see more arrows.
Disorganized bezel facets.
Verdict will have to be postponed til you get better pics.

Ah ok, I see what you mean now about the gray/ frosted/ cloudy area - fwiw, I don't remember any but can't be 100% sure. It might just be the pictures. This is what you mean by girdle reflection yeah?

I also see what you mean about disorganised bezel facets - this is what you mean by "mush", correct?

Again fwiw, all these pics were taken at an angle/ tilted. But I am not an expert on old cuts and haven't seen a huge number. I shall for sure ask vendor for more pics as well as certification.

Thank you again. Appreciate it.

Yeah, if the stone's tilted then you're seeing more of a tilt girdle reflection. Some mind it and some don't. I think it's forgivable because almost all stones have it at a certain angle. What I wouldn't want to see is if you can see it when the stone is centered, facing front and not tilted.

The bezel facets are the outer facets that make a star pattern. Here's a link so you can see them:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/anatomy-of-round-brilliant-diamond
See how it's hard to make out the star pattern? Some wonk is ok and you'll just have to see how it shows itself in more pictures. It can be hard to capture them in photos.

I do agree that you are seeing general mushy faceting in the table facets. I can see a few arrows but where's the rest of them? Could be the lighting.

 

[arkieb1]

For a start it could just be bad pics because you see in the first few pics you are taking, the centre area doesn't have a clearly defined pattern nor is the facet pattern nice and crisp. It's actually kind of deja vu for me because I took some pics of my OEC and showed them to SB and had the same issue that it looks like my stone is badly cut because every pic I initially took of my stone showed this random and bad looking facet pattern and yet what my eye actually sees is a near perfect fat petalled flower that is "on" pretty well most of the time and then big chunky facets living in a slight cushion shape. The more irregularly shaped the stone is the more difficult I find it is to take a decent pic of it.

The shape of yours is off round and see how the table in your first pic is also way off centre....

I got frustrated and gave up taking pics for a while because I thought I had a pretty darn nice stone in reality but the camera wasn't showing it as such. Then I held up a loupe to my Iphone one day and suddenly I got a pic closer to what my eye sees when I look at my stone.

We need you to get some better pics of the stone to work out if in fact there is any mush and to see more of the cut or if it is just the pics. Your stone has a nice small table and lovely big high crown....

The first lot of pics I took all made the faceting on mine look like a badly cut random mess



Then I got better at it. Note I am wearing a pink fuzzy track or sweater top and dark blue pants. That is what is being picked up and reflected in the stone.



Then I suddenly discovered I could get a pic closer to what my eye sees with the loupe and the Iphone. The pink is the long sleeved top I am wearing and the blue which you can actually see my leg at the 8.00 o'clock position is being picked up and reflected out, the dark brown almost black next to my leg is the leg of a table which is also in there.... I had the not so great idea to wipe the stone down with a paper towel before pics, you can see the white fuzz stuck to it in the pic. You can see the stone has an almost greyish tint in this pic as well, but it's not grey at all in real life.

For reference this is a L borderline M coloured 11.25mm stone. It's a chameleon - it picks up and reflects whatever is in it's surroundings. Your stone looks more tinted in the first few pics you have taken but I think it's the lighting and less tinted in your side on pic.

 

[Phoenix]

Yeah, if the stone's tilted then you're seeing more of a tilt girdle reflection. Some mind it and some don't. I think it's forgivable because almost all stones have it at a certain angle. What I wouldn't want to see is if you can see it when the stone is centered, facing front and not tilted.

The bezel facets are the outer facets that make a star pattern. Here's a link so you can see them:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/anatomy-of-round-brilliant-diamond
See how it's hard to make out the star pattern? Some wonk is ok and you'll just have to see how it shows itself in more pictures. It can be hard to capture them in photos.

I do agree that you are seeing general mushy faceting in the table facets. I can see a few arrows but where's the rest of them? Could be the lighting.

I understand. It's a lot clearer now. Thank you so much.

Let's see if the new pictures come back any better.

 

[Phoenix]

Arkieb,

Wow, thank you soooo much for all the pics and detailed input on the pattern/ faceting. I see more clearly what you guys mean now.

Your stone is GORGEEEEOOUUSSS . I love how crisp it is, love the big fat petals and how it reflects the surroundings and picks up the colours. I still can't make out very well your leg nor the leg of the table - shall need to look more closely, but I love love love this effect.

Can't wait to see how you set your stone.

PS. I can't believe your stone is L-M. It looks really white to me.

PPS. I love how you said "your stone", ha ha...it's not mine (yet). I agree it has a lovely yummy tiny table and tall crown. It is definitely slightly off-round. Not sure about the off-centred table though, can't remember it/ it didn't stick out at the time. We shall see when the pics come back.

Thank you again.

 

[Mayk]

FIRE SALE!!!!! Did someone say SALE and Phoenix Jewels in the same sentence? I'M IN!!!!


Re: This 9ct OEC would cure my DSS once and for all. Thats's Just Silly Talk.....

 

[arkieb1]

Arkieb,

Wow, thank you soooo much for all the pics and detailed input on the pattern/ faceting. I see more clearly what you guys mean now.

Your stone is GORGEEEEOOUUSSS . I love how crisp it is, love the big fat petals and how it reflects the surroundings and picks up the colours. I still can't make out very well your leg nor the leg of the table - shall need to look more closely, but I love love love this effect.

Can't wait to see how you set your stone.

PS. I can't believe your stone is L-M. It looks really white to me.

PPS. I love how you said "your stone", ha ha...it's not mine (yet). I agree it has a lovely yummy tiny table and tall crown. It is definitely slightly off-round. Not sure about the off-centred table though, can't remember it/ it didn't stick out at the time. We shall see when the pics come back.

Thank you again.

Actually 98% of all the pics I have of my stone the facets are not crisp and my pics make my stone look like crappola when it real life the faceting is actually crisp and very pretty to look at. The dark blue part in the last pic inwards at the 8.00 o'clock is my leg, I have another pics which is similar and I can make out a blue leg and shock horror an ugg boot in that one as well, but I thought that was a little too ocker to put onto here... I just did a quick post about the stone in the Antique & Vintage Jewellery section, since the cat is now out of the bag. Will put it onto show me the bling when its set.

You really can't beat 9 carats, that's massive, but you should balance that with a cut you can live with as well, which is why you need some more pics.

 

[Phoenix]

FIRE SALE!!!!! Did someone say SALE and Phoenix Jewels in the same sentence? I'M IN!!!!


Re: This 9ct OEC would cure my DSS once and for all. Thats's Just Silly Talk.....

LOL!

DH is hyperventilating at the moment! Poor thing! Well, at least I'm selling the other stuff!

 

[Phoenix]

Arkieb,

Your stone is absolutely gorgeous and your photography skill is way better than mine. There are some amazing photos and photographers on PS - Kenny in particular comes to mine. I also drool over Fortekitty's pics of her beaufiful OEC. There are many many others...

Yes, 9ct would be absolutely HUGE. But agreed re the decent cut.

 

[makemepretty]

That is so pretty and a WOW size, I'd say go for it. It just has that uniqueness to it that you don't see very often.

 

[Acinom]

So pretty and impressive
When (or should I say 'if') you buy her though, it would be a pity to only wear her at parties. I think she will look marvelous with jeans

Can't wait to see what you will decide. A 9 carat OEC

 

[CharmyPoo]

I just want to add another perspective here - it may not be perfect but it could be another lifetime before you can find a true OEC at this size and color. If any of the cut is an issue, you have enough size to tweak it if it really bothers you.

It's hard to gauge crispness of the facets from these photos. Look at Holly in the hand pic - it looks like a big blur too.

Here is my OEC and even in some pics the facets may not look crisp but this is one of the most beautiful OECs I have ever seen. Zero obstruction in real life which is pretty rare. This came back as a GIA H.


Here it is under bright lights which makes everything more washed out.