thinking about www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com !!!read this!!!

[pricescope]

Hi Steve,

I'm sorry that PS forum doesn't appear unbiased for you.

This thread came up right at that time when some vendors who use to post on other forums organized campaign to smear Pricescope, its advertisers, and their suppliers. They paint Pricescope as anti jewelers’ website where several paid shills badmouth B&M jewelers.

That is the reason of reaction of regular members to this post. I wish you could stop by more often so you would know better what’s going on.

I feel really bad to hear the same words from you who I always put as an example of great B&M jeweler

I think you own the forum members an apology.

 

[StevL]

Leonid,

I just stopped in and read the first couple post as I don't have the time to make thousands of post in a year or less. You know that.

I read this one thread that was on top and I'm not believe what I just read?

I'm sorry for not reading the entire forum and following each thread you referred to.

But I'm not sorry for the light that was painted on the one thread that I read.

Every reseller of any product or service has an agenda if they are posting on any public forum... Including me!

Lets be adults and realize this isn't a perfect internet either.

Gone golfing, I'll look in later.

 

[strmrdr]

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On 4/26/2004 2:49:29 AM phinest27 wrote:

Should i go to the BBB online?


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About what?
They wouldnt even take the complaint.

DCD is not reponsible for the local appraisers hours nor for you missing your appointment.
It makes perfect sence that He would not leave his diamonds at an appraisers. I suprised that the appraiser agreed to keep them in the first place.

The only blame here is on you for not making your appointment.
I know the BBB will not care much about that.

 

[fire&ice]

Steve, to understand the present, one must understand the past. This thread was history; yet, the poster *chose* to bump the thread instead of moving on.

Also, Do you think a consumer should report you to the better business bureau because you may not be open to view stones a certain day? Should they slam you on PS & report you to the BBB because you wouldn't send a stone blind to *any* appraiser? Seems unreasonable to me.

I don't take to kindly to anyone who has a price for one person & another price for another. I keep track of sales in my business & try to keep my pricing competitive to the market. I don't have a price for someone who doesn't own a computer & another who scours ebay & auction pricing. My price is my price. And, my business is *way* more subjective than the diamond world.

 

[elmo]

Also, I may be wrong, but has the original post been subsequently edited? I remember thinking when I read this that the person didn't understand how the internet diamond business works and wondered what they were upset about.

 

[niceice]

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On 4/26/2004 2:49:29 AM phinest27 wrote:

Still not sold on dirtcheap, reasoning: DCD will only send diamonds to an approved vendor/apprasier. When i was a child my mother told me that when i was in public or at a friend's home that i not only represented myself, but her and my family.

1) In perspective, DCD is represented by all its vendors, salespeople, and LOCALS who do viewings.
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Herein we believe lies a bit of the misunderstanding... By "approved appraisers" none of us selling on-line is referring to the fact that we are affiliated by an appraiser, but rather that the appraiser's credit and good standing within the gemological community has been verified and thus "approved". However, these people are not acting as agents of any of us, they are in fact separate companies acting on their own volition and by their own standards. Thus they remain impartial and independent which is why on occasion an appraiser will disagree with the opinion of the laboratory or the seller, if they were part of our operations, they wouldn't disagree with a thing. Does this make sense to you? Or should we try to explain it another way?

 

[mhtv]

"After Jim confirmed that you are a real customer, I received demands from B&M jewelers demanding me to apologize for suspecting you to be a jeweler. It’s like I used a bad word or something..."

weak attempt to dodge the real issue! the issue is that you chose to make a false accusation about the PERSON instead of sticking to the point. and you did so because the point was counter to your personal bias. when someone makes an effective point that deflates your opinion, you have a habit of going off-point, and going PERSONAL.

it's simple. if instead of sticking with the point, you make a remark about the PERSON (such as conjecture about their "real" identity), that IS PERSONAL.

doing it at all is inappropriate, but when you do it selectively...to those who post comments or facts that tend to deflate your points or opinions, or are in the least bit inconvenient to your opionions on a subject, then that reveals your bias... and by extension, the forum's bias.

it's bad enough when a mere registered user employs such tactics. but when the owner of the forum does this regularly, it deligitimizes the forum.

it appears that the forum is not simply biased....it is a actually a tool for advancing the biases thru manipulations of the forum discussions by the forum owner.

 

[mhtv]

"This thread came up right at that time when some vendors who use to post on other forums organized campaign to smear Pricescope, its advertisers, and their suppliers. They paint Pricescope as anti jewelers’ website where several paid shills badmouth B&M jewelers."

"organized campaign"???? who organized a campaign??? what form did this organization take?? did they have meetings? form a committee?? do you have actual evidence of the organizations smear plans??? LOL!!!!

or is it just the same as your accusation against the OP....you don't like the facts being posted, so you resort to accusations instead of sticking with the point?

again, a vewry weak try to divert from the points that you can't handle.

 

[hoorray]

Mhtv: What deligitimizes the forum is inflamatory posts like this that have nothing to do with the original poster's questions or points. If you want to have a screaming match, please do it somewhere else. Either on another forum or in private through PM. If you will read through this thread and most others, you will find that most of the posters are trying to stay on topic and help the original poster. You're posts are obviously just trying to derail this forum, and I, for one, would prefer you do it somewhere else.

 

[pricescope]

Mhtv:

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'organized campaign'????
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Yes.

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who organized a campaign???
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Brad from DBOF

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what form did this organization take??
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Mailing campaign to thousands of jewelers to inform them about wholesalers who allow listing their diamonds on Pricescope in order to press them not to do that and thus restrict selling diamonds in the internet at low margin.

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do you have actual evidence of the organizations smear plans??? LOL!!!!
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Yes. Good bye.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Good night, sweet prince.

You've finally pissed Leonid off.

 

[pricescope]

Steven, thank you for very balanced post.

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The point that Brad is trying to make is not that internet retailers are evil, but that the wholesalers to the B&M trade are also selling direct to the public (many times at lower than wholesale prices)...
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As far as I know there are no wholesalers who advertise their diamonds at wholesale price on Pricescope and therefore sell directly to consumers. Companies that list their diamonds on Pricescope and their websites are e-tailers who sell to the public and do not sell to the trade.

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The 'campaign' is not against E-Tailers, but to force the wholesalers to be honest about who they sell to.. Would you buy from your competition or would you prefer to buy from someone that doesn't try to sell to your customers??
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This is not the case, Steve. There is no secret that hundreds of wholesalers and manufacturers list their inventories on several B2B networks. Some of them allow e-commerce sites to download and list their diamonds in the internet. E–commerce sites (including BlueNile, Mondera and others) offer these diamonds to the public at higher than wholesale price but their margin can indeed be lower than it used to be in retail. Retailers can use the same inventory and buy these diamonds at the same wholesale prices as other e-commerce companies.

It is not the case when wholesalers sell retail at the same price they offer it to their retailers. The way this campaign is organized is to force wholesalers to prohibit listing their diamonds on the E-commerce sites, which is simply an attempt to restrict the fair trade and protect someone’s profit.

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Personally, I've seen it before.. The good B&Ms will continue to be good, and grow, and find new markets..
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Amen to that. We would love to see more independent B&M jewelers here.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 4/26/2004 7:48:15 PM mhtv wrote:


do you have actual evidence of the organizations smear plans??? LOL!!!!

----

I have very black & white evidence on my computer screen that you have nothing to share except to bad mouth most people on this forum.

I'm curious. Have you ever tried to help a consumer on this board?

 

[StevL]

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On 4/26/2004 12:02:13 PM fire&ice wrote:

Do you think a consumer should report you to the better business bureau because you may not be open to view stones a certain day? Should they slam you on PS & report you to the BBB because you wouldn't send a stone blind to *any* appraiser? Seems unreasonable to me.

I don't take to kindly to anyone who has a price for one person & another price for another. ----------------

A. It isn't my place to tell anyone what they should do or not do. I don't believe this is correct (if all the facts are even true) but everyone handles things differently.

Many consumers have posted about transactions good and bad, nothing is wrong with this. You (we/us) have to make sense out of a post and decide if it is reasonable (to you/me/us).

Why slam a local jeweler we know nothing about... they could be one of the good ones (I don't know either) but they are not guilty of anything yet.

B. How one prices things in their own business is their own business, if you don't like it vote with your dollars and shop elsewhere. I don't remember seeing anything except his prices fell more in line with what they found on the net, maybe it was only a few hundred difference. Many people on the web offer a discount for wire or check; this is a unfair discount to many. If you can't afford to pay cash, or you want the security of a credit card you should pay more? Doesn't make sense to me.

I also know of a couple times where internet vendors lowered their price based on what the competition did, very same thing as this B&M did. I think this is done very often in all types of businesses (B&M and Internet).

As a business owner you know you must adjust your business as times change. I have changed our business model several times over the past couple decades.

 

[pricescope]

----------------
Ok, now - who wants to determine just how far we've gone off topic??

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A little

Just one really small comment:

----
...I have compared certed stones before that were listed on websites and also in wholesale only areas and seen the exact stone listed cheaper at the e-tailer site..
---------

I've also been told about a few instances when the same stone form the same wholesaler was listed on different B2B networks at different prices. It could be a human error or some other reasons but it shouldn't be the reason to start a witch-hunt.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 4/27/2004 12:12:15 PM StevL wrote:

----------------
On 4/26/2004 12:02:13 PM fire&ice wrote:

Do you think a consumer should report you to the better business bureau because you may not be open to view stones a certain day? Should they slam you on PS & report you to the BBB because you wouldn't send a stone blind to *any* appraiser? Seems unreasonable to me.

I don't take to kindly to anyone who has a price for one person & another price for another. ----------------

A. It isn't my place to tell anyone what they should do or not do. I don't believe this is correct (if all the facts are even true) but everyone handles things differently.

Why slam a local jeweler we know nothing about... they could be one of the good ones (I don't know either) but they are not guilty of anything yet.

B. How one prices things in their own business is their own business, if you don't like it vote with your dollars and shop elsewhere. I don't remember seeing anything except his prices fell more in line with what they found on the net, maybe it was only a few hundred difference.
----------------

I'm thinking that you didn't understand what this person was saying. He's thinking about reporting DCD to the Better Business Bureau *because* 1. He did not state on his website that he does not ship over the weekend. 2. DCD would only send the stones to appraisers that they know (i.e. good standing w/ good credit - and they know won't run off w/ the stones).

Why in the world is either of these policies unreasonable *enough* to report to the BBB? Sorry, I see akin to reporting someone to the BBB if they don't open when it is convenient to them.

Yes, I would take my business away from anyone who quotes two separate prices for the *same* thing. This is not a case of "price matching". To paraphrase - the jeweler had a pricing list. These were the prices being quoted to the individual as the price. He mentions he is shopping on the net & all of a sudden those are the retail prices & he *discounts* his stones. The way I understood the transaction, it struck a nerve. I didn't get the feeling that this was about"preferred" pricing or price matching. He should have been competitive from the beginning. Yes, that is the way I do business. I am above board; and, I don't play games. I appreciate (spend my money) with people who do the same.

This thread has much less to do with the jeweler this person choose to work with after unsuccessful attempt w/ DCD. But, more to do with the unreasonable demands expected of DCD & subsequent threat to report to the BBB.

 

[StevL]

My last comment on this thread... I hate getting into these threads, I should have passed this one up.

I understand completely that he wants to report this to the BBB. I just don't know enough of the facts (other than posted) and it still isn't my choice of what he should or shouldn't do.

I don't think it is the correct choice based on the post, but it's not my choice!

I was on the BBB review board at one time long ago. It can be very eye opening what people will and do complain about. Some people are much more sensitive than others about the smallest things... but those things are very important to them. Let them speak if they feel the need, Jim will respond and nothing will ever happen

Why?

The BBB hasn't any teeth! They can't do a darn thing about any complaint. They just moderate, nothing more, nothing less.

They will put a black mark by your name (if they think you are guilty). I have none with the BBB, but would one or two black marks steer most people away from anyone that deals with hundreds of people a year... don't think so knowing how people can be.

You can't please everyone everytime, impossible.

Time to get ready to see Shania, hope you all have a great evening!