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Things White People Can Do To Promote Racial Justice

Alexiszoe

Brilliant_Rock
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Just saw this piece of news:

Minnesota Officials Link Arrested Looters to White Supremacist Groups

I know quite a few people understandably do not agree with the violence. There's more to it than meets the eye here.

White supremacists groups are taking this opportunity to incite violence under the guise of pretending to be protesters, in an attempt to alienate the public from key issues here and sow further hatred and division amongst us.
 
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telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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Protests have a purpose. Funny how this cop was only charged AFTER violent protests brought attention to the issue. This cycle is repeated all throughout history.

“Destructive protests, when done with the right motives, are valid forms of political action. Additionally, if the reason people are rioting is because they are trying to protect the lives of marginalized or oppressed individuals, we should remember people’s lives hold higher value than damaged property.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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This is a huge list, Monnie, and I certainly haven't read a tenth of the books on it. I did go all the way through it, though, because I have been reading a book recommended by my brother and before I wrote about it I wanted to see if it was already on your list. I may have missed it, but I do not think it is. It is called Waking Up White by Debby Irving. My brother and I are both social workers. (He is also a retired attorney who worked for HUD.) We have got good intentions towards the poor and racial minorities. He recommended this book to me, however, because the author really goes on a voyage of self-discovery.

Intensive reading list:

 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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I love this family’s attitude to the situation. Their restaurant is just a building. If business owners are more upset about the murder, why aren’t others?
People are more important than property.

7EB0269C-9FF6-4C40-8171-0FC731A36843.jpeg
Here is their post from FB. Sounds like supporting these protests may be very good for business

5803F46B-01B8-4EC4-AC42-44AF6AF16232.jpeg
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
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I read this on Facebook:

If seeing people looting stores makes you more upset than

watching a cop kill a black man, please work on yourself.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I read this on Facebook:

If seeing people looting stores makes you more upset than

watching a cop kill a black man, please work on yourself.
Oh for gods sake.
Yeah, that’s it.
You nailed me.


If cutesy snarkisms like this reflect the median maturity of the average American it’s no wonder we’ve got societal problems.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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I’m no longer going to comment about property damage in this thread. But I do think this is why we need BLM. I went back to an old thread and found this meme I’d previously shared. Terrible how relevant it is 4 years later.

639EA7FB-F3A7-46E9-B37A-34162E39AB1B.jpeg
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
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Oh for gods sake.
Yeah, that’s it.
You nailed me.
I don’t think you’re more upset about the destruction of a small, family-owned business than you are about George Floyd’s murder. I think you’re right that you can feel empathy for both situations at the same time.

@telephone89 wasn’t applauding or celebrating the fact that that family lost their business. She was applauding their attitude about their situation and the fact that they want to turn the focus back to the importance of the protests. I don’t think she lacks empathy any more than you do.

From my POV, focusing on the looting detracts from the larger issue of violence and murder perpetrated against black people by the police. It also achieves what the instigators of those crimes want to accomplish, which is to tear us apart and get us to condemn the behavior of protesters when it’s not the protesters’ fault.

It’s not my place to say what people can or can’t post here, but I just want to make it clear that nobody is condoning the destruction of family businesses.
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
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Firsthand account from my friend in Boston. Peaceful protesters are being maced and beaten with sticks by the police. I also saw video of someone being trampled by police on horseback, but I don’t know if that was Boston too.

Please think about what we’re not being shown on the news before posting about how scary and destructive the protests appear to you.

Her account is private so I can’t share the video, but here’s a still:
B52C711B-43CB-4E36-A477-19944A85FA5B.jpeg
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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@JPie thank you! Yes I specifically mentioned their attitude, and even in their fb post say: “[the restaurant] may have felt the flames last night, but our fiery drive help to help and protect and stand with our community will never die”.

it’s extremely powerful and absolutely should be applauded IMO.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Looks like your friend’s account is private @JPie.
Edit - slow typing.

I will not condemn anyone for feeling what they feel about loss and suffering, not will I try to regulate or “peer pressure” others into expressing certain feelings about loss and suffering.

If someone is grieving for a life lost needlessly and unfairly, that’s a valid way to feel.
If someone is angry about racial division, that’s a valid way to feel.
If someone is upset about property loss, that’s a valid way to feel.
If someone is scared for the future of his community, that’s a valid way to feel.

I’m done here for real.
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
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@yssie I’ve always enjoyed reading your posts and I hope I haven’t made you feel like I’m trying to regulate what you write.

I know emotions are very raw right now and I hope all of us will continue to keep the conversation in this thread respectful even when we don’t see eye to eye. I don’t want to be responsible for giving Ella a migraine!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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@JPie I think Ella probably already has one - that we’re all contributing to! :oops:

I have been on pandemic response for several weeks - this is my first week off. I should really know better than to open political threads right now; my frayed nerves are not your fault.

I will bow out - later than optimal, but better late than never.
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
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When I see the destruction of property in these protests, my first concern is for the safety of others. It pains me to see looters bc I have to wonder what circumstances they have suffered through to make them think this behavior is ok. I’m not judging them. I am crying for them and wishing that they would not resort to such despair. For me, it’s not about the value of the destroyed property—it’s the motivation behind it that makes me cry for the destroyers.
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
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Mar 22, 2017
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586
Just saw this piece of news:

Minnesota Officials Link Arrested Looters to White Supremacist Groups

I know quite a few people understandably do not agree with the violence. There's more to it than meets the eye here.

White supremacists groups are taking this opportunity to incite violence under the guise of pretending to be protesters, in an attempt to alienate the public from key issues here and sow further hatred and division amongst us.
I just wanted to reinforce this - I have contacts through my professional network in Minneapolis, and I am hearing this repeatedly from different sources. The majority of the damage and violence is not coming from local people who are focused on the issue at hand and wished to hold a firm but peaceful demonstration - in fact, many of the local protesters are also trying to help local businesses repair damage and board windows on others to protect them. It is coming from people elsewhere in the state and from other states who have another agenda, whether it is white supremacists with an agenda that @Alexiszoe described well, those looking for an opportunity for personal economic gain through looting, or those who simply are angry at all kinds of things and were looking for an opportunity to anonymously vent that anger in whatever way felt good under the cover of chaos. Apparently the streets have been filled with cars with out-of-state plates or removed plates, especially after that initial afternoon of mostly peaceful protesting. Several people are reporting seeing fires set by heavily armed young white men.

I also agree completely with @JPie:

From my POV, focusing on the looting detracts from the larger issue of violence and murder perpetrated against black people by the police. It also achieves what the instigators of those crimes want to accomplish, which is to tear us apart and get us to condemn the behavior of protesters when it’s not the protesters’ fault.
 
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Slick1

Ideal_Rock
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I just copied and pasted this from CNN. I think they have walked back on the assertion that most of the protestors were from out of town. I think these hot spots are drawing locals and those traveling to protest. So sad..


18 min agoMore than 80% of people booked into Minneapolis

jails over the past 2 days are from Minnesota

From CNN's Casey Tolan

More than 80% of people booked into jail in Minneapolis on riot and other potentially riot-related charges over the past two days are from Minnesota, according to a CNN analysis of data from the Hennepin County Sheriff’s office.
Officials had earlier claimed that most protesters came from out of state.
Of the 51 people who were booked into jail in Hennepin County between noon Thursday and noon Saturday on riot, unlawful assembly, burglary or damage to property charges, 43 had an address listed in Minnesota.
Those charges amounted for more than half of the total jail bookings over the 48-hour period. Three of the arrestees were listed as Illinois residents, while others were from Alaska, Florida, Michigan and Missouri, and one had no address available.
It’s not possible from the data to say for sure that the charges were linked to the protests. And the data only covers people booked into jail, not necessarily all arrests. Hennepin County includes Minneapolis, but not St. Paul.
Local news channel KARE 11 had previously reported that most arrestees came from out of state.
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey said Saturday that protesters “are coming in largely from outside of the city, from outside of the region, to prey on everything we have built over the last several decades.”
And Gov. Tim Walz had suggested that 80% of protesters were from out of state, but didn’t provide data at a Saturday evening press conference to support that figure. He said some of the information came from “human intel” and he spoke of “other data points,” but didn’t provide details. “We'll see tonight, whether it's right or wrong,” he said.
St. Paul mayor Melvin Carter said Saturday morning that “every single person we arrested last night, I’m told, was from out of state,” but retracted that claim on Saturday evening, saying he “takes full responsibility” for the mistake.
 

Babyblue033

Brilliant_Rock
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Here’s a really great explanation of what’s going on in Minneapolis:

This was a good reading, to give me better perspective and insight into what's happening.

I completely agree that George Floyd's life was worth more than anyone's property.

I completely disagree that this family's inadvertent sacrifice of their livelihood - their property, their time (who's paying their bills whilst they rebuild, with COVID-19 having already decimated the greater economy?), their money (you really think insurance is going to replace everything? That's a laugh!) to riot violence has promoted or furthered anyone's health or welfare.

Let me repeat that: Them losing their business has cost them lots and achieved absolutely nothing.

Maybe this particular family can rebuild without much hardship. What about those who can't? Will you be contributing to their GoFundMes?

Don't put words in my mouth. Noone is saying that people who denounce "property damage", as you so cavalierly term it, are ignoring the "actual issue". It is in fact possible to feel outrage about systemic racism without taking that invective out on innocent people.
I have to say, I cannot agree with you more. While I'm mostly outraged by the blatant racism and one's life lost so needlessly, I am also incredibly sad that a family business has to accept the lost of their life's work because it was "for good cause". That is especially true if these looters are not part of the peaceful protesters and are causing destruction for their own agendas. What good is coming out of them losing everything then?

Not to mention, just a few days ago we were having heated discussions about the damage being done to our economy, to the small business owners especially, due to cities being closed due to the pandemic. Some of us were adamant that we needed to reopen the cities ASAP in order to save our economy. But today we are ok with a family business losing everything, who probably was already devastated by the pandemic, because it should not be a distraction from the main issue at hand. Am I the only one seeing a hypocrisy in that?

I am not saying their business is worth more than the life of a person. But I'm not ok with dismissing their loss simply because people think it is "less important". They lost their livelihood, and that is important too.

And I am outraged by the thought that small groups are using this situation to further their agendas, bringing violence and destruction to places already struggling with the global pandemic.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Everyone should stay peaceful like us Asians. .:praise:
No looting,rioting or damaging other people's properties.
 

ForteKitty

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Everyone should stay peaceful like us Asians. .:praise:
No looting,rioting or damaging other people's properties.
Are you f*in kidding me? I know plenty of Asians who went to the LA riots just to steal tvs and shit. They literally drove 20 miles just to steal.
 

Matata

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The effects of the global pandemic are not the issue in the protests. It may add to the volatility of those who have suffered bias but it is not the root cause of the suffering of imperiled marginalized groups and the ongoing and pressing issue of racism. The only opinion that matters related to the Indian restaurant that was destroyed is that of the owners. I started this thread to motivate people to become personally involved in trying to achieve solutions. We can be horrified, indignant, sad, sympathetic and it achieves nothing if we don't engage in actions that may lead to a cultural shift away from the current model of white privilege. We can opine, exercise our critical thinking skills, and offer our opinions about who we believe is more right and more wrong and it means nothing and achieves nothing if we don't engage in actions that may lead to a cultural shift away from the current model of white privilege. Engage and take action because anything less perpetuates discrimination.
 

Dancing Fire

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Are you f*in kidding me? I know plenty of Asians who went to the LA riots just to steal tvs and shit. They literally drove 20 miles just to steal.
Did they give you a good discount? I don't hang out with those type of people...:praise:
 

ForteKitty

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Everyone should stay peaceful like us Asians. .:praise:
No looting,rioting or damaging other people's properties.
You can play the model minority card all you want, but to a lot of people, you're nothing but a shooting target. Nothing but someone who doesn't belong in this country. You should get out of your bubble once in a while.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I was 12. And you can f*ck off if you think "our people" don't do anything bad.
Of course there are bad people in every race. So can you please explain to me why Asian incarceration ratios are so low?? b/c COPs don't arrest Asians for committing crimes??

 
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ForteKitty

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Of course there are bad people in every race. So can you please explain to me why Asian incarceration ratios are so low?? b/c COPs don't arrest Asians for committing crimes??

Just based on what I've personally witnessed, Asians get away with a lot more. Charged with lower offenses. Asian males are seen as docile and non-aggressive, therefore not seen as a threat, even though the opposite may be true. You don't need to throw inmate statistics at me, I worked at a jail and for the Sheriff's Department.
 

BMI

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@Matata I just want to thank you for the link (which I have now bookmarked) in your original post.
 
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the_mother_thing

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It’s really irresponsible to post misinformation about the riots/rioters that has repeatedly been refuted, e.g. that they are part of one ‘political’ group. I seriously doubt Joe Biden & Hollywood types would be donating millions to ‘bail funds’ to help them get out of jail if/when arrested if the rioters were what was stated upthread.
 
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Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sorry for derailing your thread, @Matata but I had to call out racist behavior and I'm not sorry for what I wrote. White people aren't the only racists out there, as you can clearly see.
I'm a racists b/c I'm proud of being Chinese?
 
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