The poor need to get better at being poor

[vespergirl]

I have been hearing a lot lately about people who are having financial troubles saying that they are having a hard time feeding their families. However, upon further questioning, many of these people are buying lunches and dinners at restaurants and fast food joints, instead of preparing meals at home.

For example, one family that was featured on Dr. Phil said that the mother was thankful for Subway restaurants, because they could but each family member a $5 sandwich for dinner, which is what they did most nights. The family had 6 people. That means that they were spending $30 a night on dinner, but complaining about not being able to pay their mortgage! After hearing how much money these people were wasting on fast food restaurants, I had little sympathy for them. If they had prepared their own meals, they could have saved enougheach month to make their mortgage payments.

I''m sorry, but to me, that is an incredible waste of money. You can EASILY feed a family of 4 on $5 per meal. For example, a box of pasta and a jar of marinara sauce, serving 4, can be purchased for $3 for the whole dinner. How about toast for breakfast? Salad for lunch? A head of lettuce costs $1.50. You can make a vat of soup for next to nothing! You can buy rice & beans in bulk and the whole family can eat for a week for $20. And for a nice sunday dinner, you can get a roasting chicken, some potatoes, carrots and onions for $10 and have a beautiful family meal. The way that I was raised, everything was made from scratch, and we didn''t have to have meat with every meal. My parents are from a Mediterranean country where vegetables, grains and fish that they caught was the bulk of the diet, and meat and eggs were had maybe two or three times a week. Our family doesn''t have obesity issues, nor do we struggle to afford food.

It just amazes me that some people feel entitled to luxury items every day, and then complain that they can''t make their mortgage payments. I also wonder how many of these people have cable TV and cell phones. I saw another family that was featured on Oprah that was living in a homeless shelter due to the parents'' admittedly poor budgeting and spending practices. The little girl (around 7) who was interviewed was complaining that she only owned 2 pairs of shoes. Hello, when I was a kid, I would frequently only have two pairs of shoes - everyday sneakers, and a dressy pair for church. I just don''t see having "only" 2 pairs of shoes as abject poverty.

Sorry if this comes out harsh, but it amazes me how some people are completely incabale of living within their means. I grew up in an upper-middle class household, but my parents were extremely poor immigrants, and I saw how my grandparents, and many other people of their generation lived, who lived through the Depression and WWII. It''s just kind of disgusting to me to think that we are in this financial crisis because people of modest means try to live more extravagantly than they can afford to.

OK, I''ve done my venting, I''m going to get off my soapbox now ...

 

[MoonWater]

I completely get where you're coming from vesper but I actually wonder...due to us being spoiled for so long, if many of these people even know HOW to cook. I took my Aunt out to dinner the other night and over and over she said..."They keep saying the economy is bad, what are these people doing here? There's nothing wrong with the economy." She was kidding, but you get the drift. But she's 67 years old and knows how to feed a family. I seriously think these people have no clue about any other way to eat, which is a shame (and also explains our issue with obesity in this country).

 

[neatfreak]

I agree with you in theory...but have you ever been to a grocery store in a poor neighborhood? Often there isn't even a grocery store at all, they are dealing with convenience stores if they don't have a car or can't take public transit to a store sometimes far away. And if there is a grocery store the prices are often insane and the quality of the products pretty bad. Grocery stores are usually in nice and somewhat affluent (at least comparably) neighborhoods, however fast food joints are often located very easily in poor neighborhoods. Not saying it's right, but at least a part of it is accessibility for some families.

Not defending everyone here, I completely agree with you that most people complaining are people who should be able to cook at home and save money. But as always there is a flip side to every coin for some people...it just isn't as clear cut as everyone should/can cook fresh meals at home easily.

And as to the cell phones, many poor people ONLY have cell phones, these days it's often cheaper than a landline and the prepaid phones don't require a credit check/good credit which often is required for a land line.

 

[JulieN]

seriously.

Cost for 6 if they made it themselves:
2 lbs of flour for bread: $2
Veggies for sandwiches: $4 (tomatoes being rather expensive here...)
Chicken at $1/lb on sale, that they roast themselves: $4

$10 dollars for roast chicken sandwiches for 6

 

[decodelighted]

LOL. The title of this thread really cracked me up. But I think I understand what you mean & won''t read any ill intent into it.

Bottom line for me: we''re too many generations away from the Great Depression. Maybe this "wake up call" is quite needed for our society to get a big ol'' priority check & learn some new skills. Necessity is the mother of invention, blah blah.

I''m 41 & can remember my Grandparents keeping a pile of "lightly used" napkins. (Mostly for us greasy fingered kids). I thought that was the craziest thing when I was college age. Now I get it. Now it''s "green".

My other grandparents kept stacks of deli containers & used those instead of fancy Tupperware. When we cleaned out their house, there were stacks six feet tall of them. Old cole slaw containers ... where the letters were rubbed off from so many washings.

Where I disagree a bit is I think its the "newly poor/former middle class" that''s having the hardest time. The folks who never learned the survival skills. Who never *dreamed* of having to learn them. Who probably, at some point, laughed long & hard -or worse- PITIED folks who did.

The good news is that with the web there''s a lot of information out there for the curious and truly motivated. We don''t have to walk five miles to school with no shoes like G. Grandpa Everyman. Or reinvent the budgeting/cooking wheel. We just have to be smart enough to keep seeking info & keep doing what has to be done.

The layoffs are terrible. My heart goes out to all the families who are struggling right now, regardless of how they ended up in the middle of the struggle.

 

[luckystar112]

I guess all poor neighborhoods are different. We have plenty of "discount" grocery stores that I''ve shopped at plenty of times since you can get twice the food for the same amount of money.
As for cell phones, I don''t buy it. You can get a landline for as little as $10, sometimes free if you ask just for access to emergency numbers. Any phone is really a luxury. My brother was just telling me the other day about how some guy knocked on his car window and asked him for a dollar...when my brother went into his wallet to get it, the guy''s cell phone rang! Needless to say my brother just drove off. 12 year old kids in poor neighborhoods have cell phones now. Blows my mind.
I didn''t get my first cell phone until I was 18, my DH until he was 20. Our childrent won''t be getting one....and if times are ever tight for us they will be the first things to go.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 1/27/2009 5:48:28 PM
Author: decodelighted
My other grandparents kept stacks of deli containers & used those instead of fancy Tupperware. When we cleaned out their house, there were stacks six feet tall of them. Old cole slaw containers ... where the letters were rubbed off from so many washings.

I do that even today. Both my and DH''s grandparents/parents will make us write our names on plastic cups, too.
We are such a wasteful country. I agree that we ALL need to get better are being poor.

 

[movie zombie]

while i agree with much of the OP, i do want everyone to remember that markets don''t grow unless people buy. market growth has been worshiped to the point that it is our patriotic duty to buy....whether its fast food, houses, clothing, purses, cars, etc.

having said that, my parents are depression era survivors and i do cook and i do keep deli containers for reuse.....among other things.

movie zombie

 

[MoonWater]

Also we should note how poor is poor and what kind of poor? I read a great book a few months back where the author attempted to live off of min wage in three cities. Well, the only place to live she could manage in at least one of the cities was a room in a motel. So she had no fridge or anything and therefore she couldn''t actually go grocery shopping. At one point she was on the brink and called a hotline for help, once she finally got someone on the line (after getting the run around) they tried to offer her junk food (wtf?) and perishable items she couldn''t keep because she didn''t have a fridge. In some cases families were living like this. In case anyone wants to pick it up: http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0805063897

 

[musey]

For big families it does make sense.

However, if you're single or a couple, especially in a large city (where grocery prices are jacked up) it can be more expensive to cook at home. This depends upon where you're eating of course, what your standards for food are, and what you're cooking as well. We eat chicken & steamed (frozen) veggies almost every night that we eat at home, and that's a cheap way to cook at home because you can buy in bulk and things won't go bad before you get around to eating that item again. Plus - what if you simply don't have the time to make grocery trips? You barely have time to make it to subway because you're working two jobs to support your family... how would you squeeze in a trip to the grocery store?

Also... Toast for breakfast, lettuce for lunch (??), and pasta + marinara sauce for dinner?

Doesn't sound like a very balanced diet for the youngins

Not to suggest that this is worse than fast food, which is what most of the families below the poverty line eat in my city... but there are certainly better ways to do it (bulk frozen veggies and chicken, rice - you're set!).


To luckystar's post about a phone being a luxury... very much not true. Many, many people have to have phones in order to maintain a job (especially contract workers like many poor men and women are). If I lost the internet and/or phone, I'd be in for a career change. I think that if people sat down and thought about how dependent their work life is on their phone, most would never suggest that they're a luxury!

 

[musey]

Date: 1/27/2009 5:20:49 PM
Author:vespergirl
The little girl (around 7) who was interviewed was complaining that she only owned 2 pairs of shoes. Hello, when I was a kid, I would frequently only have two pairs of shoes - everyday sneakers, and a dressy pair for church. I just don''t see having ''only'' 2 pairs of shoes as abject poverty.

How many shoes would be ''enough'' to not indicate poverty? If I had 3, was that still unfortunate or does that cross the line into blessed?

Seriously, kids grow too fast to own many pairs of shoes, anyway! Our friend''s daughter must have, like, 12 or 13 pairs of shoes in all kinds of colors and styles. Last time I was over watching her, I saw her shoe stash and couldn''t help but think... how long can she use those before she grows out of them? 4, 5 months at best?

Heck, I don''t think *I* own as many shoes as this little 3.5-year-old girl!!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 1/27/2009 7:43:48 PM
Author: MoonWater
Also we should note how poor is poor and what kind of poor? I read a great book a few months back where the author attempted to live off of min wage in three cities. Well, the only place to live she could manage in at least one of the cities was a room in a motel. So she had no fridge or anything and therefore she couldn''t actually go grocery shopping. At one point she was on the brink and called a hotline for help, once she finally got someone on the line (after getting the run around) they tried to offer her junk food (wtf?) and perishable items she couldn''t keep because she didn''t have a fridge. In some cases families were living like this. In case anyone wants to pick it up: http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0805063897

Not to get off subject, but if somebody is trying to live off of minimum wage working only 40 hours a week, then that person needs to take Dave Ramsey''s advice and get a second job delivering pizzas. I have lived on minimum wage--then after 6 months of working I got a 50 cent raise. I put that extra 50 cents in savings and literally ate beans and rice. I think "Scratch Beginnings" is a great book about how to aspire to something from nothing.

I came from one of those families where we saved tin foil and christmas presents were dolls made out of old pantyhose (which is genius if you ask me). Even my own husband got rid of his cell phone last year because he considered it a waste of money...something I tend to ask when I hear others complain about being broke is "Do you have cable?" I know very, very few people who are willing to give up their cable, which always leaves me scratching my head.

It really sucks to be poor. I''m not trying to belittle that--I know how hard it is on one''s ego, I know how overwhelmingly stressful it is. I truly believe, though, that those who are willing to do whatever it takes to improve their situation really will. Not overnight, but over time. I think feeling entitled to "things" and an unwillingness to work more than 40 hours a week makes a terrible combination.

 

[starsapphire]

Date: 1/27/2009 5:38:21 PM
Author: neatfreak
I agree with you in theory...but have you ever been to a grocery store in a poor neighborhood? Often there isn''t even a grocery store at all, they are dealing with convenience stores if they don''t have a car or can''t take public transit to a store sometimes far away. And if there is a grocery store the prices are often insane and the quality of the products pretty bad. Grocery stores are usually in nice and somewhat affluent (at least comparably) neighborhoods, however fast food joints are often located very easily in poor neighborhoods. Not saying it''s right, but at least a part of it is accessibility for some families.

Not defending everyone here, I completely agree with you that most people complaining are people who should be able to cook at home and save money. But as always there is a flip side to every coin for some people...it just isn''t as clear cut as everyone should/can cook fresh meals at home easily.

And as to the cell phones, many poor people ONLY have cell phones, these days it''s often cheaper than a landline and the prepaid phones don''t require a credit check/good credit which often is required for a land line.

Yeah, and a lot of poor people don''t have cars, and would have to only be able to get what they can carry home. You have to buy bulk stuff like rice and pasta, and then mix beans and a little bit of meat. Sometimes you have to get really creative.

 

[starsapphire]

I also knew a girl at my job that would eat lunch out everyday. She worked 2 jobs! She said she needed to do that to survive!

Maybe if we all cut back a bit, it would not be so tough. I bet people would find a lot of money available if they just stop spending on stupid unnecessary things.

 

[luckystar112]

While I definitely think that the internet and phones can be essential to someone's career (and I would hate not having either), I still consider them a luxury. If a phone is essential for a person to be able to do to their job the employer usually gives them one. For example, Comcast, AT&T, Plumbing companies and other companies usually provide their contractors with cell phones and pay for at least part of the bill. This may not be true for every job, but I would say most.
The bill for my cell phone is between $50-$70 each month. Our cable and internet total $145. I think they are all luxuries. So if someone is living at poverty level and owns any of these things, I think they may have jumbled their priorites a little bit.
That's just my opinion though. I just know that if we were ever struggling we'd get rid of it all and acquire an emergency phone with minimum features....and a converter box. Then, if I needed the net, I'd walk to the public library. It would be a far walk, but no one ever said it was supposed to be easy.

 

[musey]

Luckystar, I am an actor and a sometimes-nanny. I assure you - I could do neither with any kind of success without a phone AND internet. I am not living near poverty level (far from it), but I know personally many people who work the same job(s) that I do and are living near or below the poverty line.

I also know many temps who could not work as such without their phone AND internet - both are necessary.

What about people who work as freelance service professionals - like plumbers, carpenters, etc.? People who operate themselves as a "business."

What about people who don't have a job yet? Maybe they wouldn't need a personal phone once they're employed, but what about while they're looking for a job? (edit: Neatfreak illustrated this well below).

No one is providing any of those people with cell phones.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/27/2009 8:38:25 PM
Author: luckystar112
While I definitely think that the internet and phones can be essential to someone''s career (and I would hate not having either), I still consider them a luxury. If a phone is essential for a person to be able to do to their job the employer usually gives them one. For example, Comcast, AT&T, Plumbing companies and other companies usually provide their contractors with cell phones and pay for at least part of the bill. This may not be true for every job, but I would say most.

The bill for my cell phone is between $50-$70 each month. Our cable and internet total $145. I think they are all luxuries. So if someone is living at poverty level and owns any of these things, I think they may have jumbled their priorites a little bit.

That''s just my opinion though. I just know that if we were ever struggling we''d get rid of it all and acquire an emergency phone with minimum features....and a converter box. Then, if I needed the net, I''d walk to the public library. It would be a far walk, but no one ever said it was supposed to be easy.

Lucky, this is absolutely not true. A phone is a necessity these days to even GET a job. How is the prospective employer supposed to reach you if you don''t have a phone? Guess what, they WON''T. They''ll hire someone that is reachable. Same thing with an apartment. You''ll almost never get one without a number to reach you at. I have worked in poor communities for many years and a phone of some sort is a necessity these days to get and maintain a job.

I don''t mean any offense by this, but you are living in quite a different world if most jobs you know give their employees phones/split the bill.

 

[Haven]

I totally agree that we all need to get better at being poor, even if we aren''t poor.

It seems like we need a major paradigm shift, at least in the U.S. I can''t tell you how many friends of mine dug themselves into giant holes of debt during their first few years after college, yet they regularly went out to lunch and drove brand new cars. In fact, I probably have some friends who STILL live like this.

DH and I are working on living simply. We reuse whatever we can, I cook chicken and rice or potatoes every three days and pack it up for our lunches, etc. We''re currently on a purchasing fast and have been for several weeks, so we buy NOTHING other than necessities like groceries and toiletries. It actually feels really good. DH is warming up to it. (In fact, I haven''t done dry cleaning in months, and I don''t even miss those clothes! I''m going to give them away once I do clean them once again.)

I work with some students who receive free lunch and have all school-related fees waived, yet they own iPods and cell phones and those hoodies that are so en vogue right now. I also work with some who wear the same two outfits over and over again throughout the year, and fall asleep during first hour because they didn''t eat breakfast and they''re exhausted.

I don''t think that a little financial discomfort is a bad thing if it leads to a shift in perspective. I don''t want to see people go hungry, naked, or unprotected from the elements, but other than that, I''m all for a forced shift toward simplicity.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 1/27/2009 8:51:32 PM
Author: neatfreak


Lucky, this is absolutely not true. A phone is a necessity these days to even GET a job. How is the prospective employer supposed to reach you if you don't have a phone? Guess what, they WON'T. They'll hire someone that is reachable. Same thing with an apartment. You'll almost never get one without a number to reach you at. I have worked in poor communities for many years and a phone of some sort is a necessity these days to get and maintain a job.

I don't mean any offense by this, but you are living in quite a different world if most jobs you know give their employees phones/split the bill.

I don't disagree with you that phones are needed. But to be clear, I'm referring to cell phones.
I just went to AT&T and saw that I could get a regular landline phone with local service for $19. Unlimited minutes.
Now cell phones: Cheapest Verizon plan: $39.99 with 450 minutes
AT&T: the same
Tmobile: $39.99 with only 300 minutes (keep in mind that these are only "whenever" minutes)
Sprint: $29.99 for 200 minutes

In other words, the cost for a cell phone is usually double the cost of a landline, with only a limited amount of minutes given. So this is where my "cell phone is a luxury" opinion is coming from. I don't feel that majority of people, especially those in poverty, NEED a cell phone. It is also worth noting that these plans are for an individual, whereas a landline can be used by a whole family. So, even if a whole family had prepaid phones it would cost more than a landline.

My world right now is Houston. I worked for a plumbing company that provided phones, a friend works for At&t and is provided a phone, and I just guessed on comcast since a guy who was once here to fix my modem was on his phone the whole time and told someone that he couldn't call them back or his boss will find out when he looks at the bill.

So, I guess we can all agree to disagree.

Edited to add more info

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/27/2009 9:17:33 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 1/27/2009 8:51:32 PM

Author: neatfreak



Lucky, this is absolutely not true. A phone is a necessity these days to even GET a job. How is the prospective employer supposed to reach you if you don''t have a phone? Guess what, they WON''T. They''ll hire someone that is reachable. Same thing with an apartment. You''ll almost never get one without a number to reach you at. I have worked in poor communities for many years and a phone of some sort is a necessity these days to get and maintain a job.


I don''t mean any offense by this, but you are living in quite a different world if most jobs you know give their employees phones/split the bill.

I don''t disagree with you that phones are needed. But to be clear, I''m referring to cell phones.

I just went to AT&T and saw that I could get a regular landline phone with local service for $19. Unlimited minutes.

Now cell phones: Cheapest Verizon plan: $39.99 with 450 minutes

AT&T: the same

Tmobile: $39.99 with only 300 minutes (keep in mind that these are only ''whenever'' minutes)

Sprint: $29.99 for 200 minutes


In other words, the cost for a cell phone is usually double the cost of a landline, with only a limited amount of minutes given. So this is where my ''cell phone is a luxury'' opinion is coming from. I don''t feel that majority of people, especially those in poverty, NEED a cell phone. It is also worth noting that these plans are for an individual, whereas a landline can be used by a whole family. So, even if a whole family had prepaid phones it would cost more than a landline.


My world right now is Houston. I worked for a plumbing company that provided phones, a friend works for At&t and is provided a phone, and I just guessed on comcast since a guy who was once here to fix my modem was on his phone the whole time and told someone that he couldn''t call them back or his boss will find out when he looks at the bill.


So, I guess we can all agree to disagree.


Edited to add more info

No need to agree to disagree on the cell phone, I was stating that a phone was necessary, not a cell (unless that is all you can get) . You just said phone in your other post, not cell phone.

 

[musey]

My argument still stands against the cell phone (vs. home phone).

All the people I know personally who have need for a phone at all, have need for a cell phone specifically. We need to be reached about future work while at work. Quite often, if our response time isn't very fast (within a couple of hours), the job will undoubtedly be lost to someone else.

No, not everyone "needs" a cell phone. But in my opinion, there's no room for a blanket statement that "cell phones are a luxury," because there are many people (especially in my city and field) who do. One could say that "for some people, arguably most, cell phones are a luxury." It's hard to agree to disagree on something that one knows to be absolute fact (ie. that cell phones are absolutely vital for many careers, but not provided by employers).

 

[swimmer]

Date: 1/27/2009 8:29:04 PM
Author: starsapphire

Date: 1/27/2009 5:38:21 PM

Author: neatfreak

I agree with you in theory...but have you ever been to a grocery store in a poor neighborhood? Often there isn''t even a grocery store at all, they are dealing with convenience stores if they don''t have a car or can''t take public transit to a store sometimes far away. And if there is a grocery store the prices are often insane and the quality of the products pretty bad. Grocery stores are usually in nice and somewhat affluent (at least comparably) neighborhoods, however fast food joints are often located very easily in poor neighborhoods. Not saying it''s right, but at least a part of it is accessibility for some families.


Not defending everyone here, I completely agree with you that most people complaining are people who should be able to cook at home and save money. But as always there is a flip side to every coin for some people...it just isn''t as clear cut as everyone should/can cook fresh meals at home easily.


And as to the cell phones, many poor people ONLY have cell phones, these days it''s often cheaper than a landline and the prepaid phones don''t require a credit check/good credit which often is required for a land line.

Yeah, and a lot of poor people don''t have cars, and would have to only be able to get what they can carry home. You have to buy bulk stuff like rice and pasta, and then mix beans and a little bit of meat. Sometimes you have to get really creative.

Exactly. We live in an immigrant hood, it is "transitional" and have noticed that we can purchase groceries for so much less money out in the burbs. Near us are more expensive "bodegas" with almost no healthy/non-processed foods and ethnic restaurants (think MSG and fried) or burger chains. The strip nearest to us has tattoo parlors, churches, check cashing, an OTB, and liquor stores. Hard to find a good snack there, trust me, I have tried. How did I move to the only block of greater Boston with no Dunkies?

Remember that horrible bit on "Supersize Me" with the obese teenage girl who said she couldn''t go on a diet because she could not afford to eat at Subway 2xs a day. Insanity? or lack of education. The school lunch program never recovered from Reagan eviscerating it and few schools still have "food prep" or "cooking" where kids learn basic meal preparation. Those extras got cut in the 80s as well. I don''t think that schools can serve all of the needs of all kids, but teamed up with PE, learning how to eat properly would really help out with our obesity epidemic.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/27/2009 8:38:25 PM
Author: luckystar112
While I definitely think that the internet and phones can be essential to someone's career (and I would hate not having either), I still consider them a luxury.

Not always so, I am required under contract to have a cell phone and high speed internet for a contract that covers the gas/electric bill/car insurance/gas for the car/one of my meds + $50 for food each month.
Sure the internet and cell take a chunk out of it, $90 out of $360 each month but its money I wouldn't have otherwise.
Without that contract I wouldn't have a cell phone and would use dial up which is much cheaper.
But most months I wouldn't have enough money to cover the basic bills without it either.

Most articles on living on limited money are written by people that have never had to do so in their life.
The real world is much different.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 1/27/2009 9:59:01 PM
Author: musey
My argument still stands against the cell phone (vs. home phone).

All the people I know personally who have need for a phone at all, have need for a cell phone specifically. We need to be reached about future work while at work. Quite often, if our response time isn''t very fast (within a couple of hours), the job will undoubtedly be lost to someone else.

No, not everyone ''needs'' a cell phone. But in my opinion, there''s no room for a blanket statement that ''cell phones are a luxury,'' because there are many people (especially in my city and field) who do. One could say that ''for some people, arguably most, cell phones are a luxury.'' It''s hard to agree to disagree on something that one knows to be absolute fact (ie. that cell phones are absolutely vital for many careers, but not provided by employers).

I really don''t want to argue about this, because I can see it getting into territory about life choices and whatnot...which is not where I''m intending to go. You believe your facts, I''ll believe my facts, and we''ll leave it at that.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 1/27/2009 10:16:22 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/27/2009 8:38:25 PM
Author: luckystar112
While I definitely think that the internet and phones can be essential to someone''s career (and I would hate not having either), I still consider them a luxury.

Not always so, I am required under contract to have a cell phone and high speed internet for a contract that covers the gas/electric bill/car insurance/gas for the car + $50 for food each month.
Sure the internet and cell take a chunk out of it, $90 out of $360 each month but its money I wouldn''t have otherwise.
Without that contract I wouldn''t have a cell phone and would use dial up which is much cheaper.
But most months I wouldn''t have enough money to cover the basic bills without it either.

Most articles on living on limited money are written by people that have never had to do so in their life.
The real world is much different.

So what you''re saying, if I''m understanding correctly, is that you are reimbursed in some way for having a phone and internet?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/27/2009 10:20:13 PM
Author: luckystar112

So what you're saying, if I'm understanding correctly, is that you are reimbursed in some way for having a phone and internet?

Indirectly....
I'm not paid extra to cover it but it is required.
They basically pay my hourly rate x a set amount of hours each month.
The cost of internet and cell come out of my profit.
They usually use those hours if they use more they pay more.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 1/27/2009 8:25:23 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 1/27/2009 7:43:48 PM

Author: MoonWater

Also we should note how poor is poor and what kind of poor? I read a great book a few months back where the author attempted to live off of min wage in three cities. Well, the only place to live she could manage in at least one of the cities was a room in a motel. So she had no fridge or anything and therefore she couldn''t actually go grocery shopping. At one point she was on the brink and called a hotline for help, once she finally got someone on the line (after getting the run around) they tried to offer her junk food (wtf?) and perishable items she couldn''t keep because she didn''t have a fridge. In some cases families were living like this. In case anyone wants to pick it up: http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0805063897

Not to get off subject, but if somebody is trying to live off of minimum wage working only 40 hours a week, then that person needs to take Dave Ramsey''s advice and get a second job delivering pizzas. I have lived on minimum wage--then after 6 months of working I got a 50 cent raise. I put that extra 50 cents in savings and literally ate beans and rice. I think ''Scratch Beginnings'' is a great book about how to aspire to something from nothing.


I came from one of those families where we saved tin foil and christmas presents were dolls made out of old pantyhose (which is genius if you ask me). Even my own husband got rid of his cell phone last year because he considered it a waste of money...something I tend to ask when I hear others complain about being broke is ''Do you have cable?'' I know very, very few people who are willing to give up their cable, which always leaves me scratching my head.


It really sucks to be poor. I''m not trying to belittle that--I know how hard it is on one''s ego, I know how overwhelmingly stressful it is. I truly believe, though, that those who are willing to do whatever it takes to improve their situation really will. Not overnight, but over time. I think feeling entitled to ''things'' and an unwillingness to work more than 40 hours a week makes a terrible combination.

Perhaps you should read the book. She did get second jobs.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 1/27/2009 9:59:01 PM
Author: musey
My argument still stands against the cell phone (vs. home phone).


All the people I know personally who have need for a phone at all, have need for a cell phone specifically. We need to be reached about future work while at work. Quite often, if our response time isn''t very fast (within a couple of hours), the job will undoubtedly be lost to someone else.


No, not everyone ''needs'' a cell phone. But in my opinion, there''s no room for a blanket statement that ''cell phones are a luxury,'' because there are many people (especially in my city and field) who do. One could say that ''for some people, arguably most, cell phones are a luxury.'' It''s hard to agree to disagree on something that one knows to be absolute fact (ie. that cell phones are absolutely vital for many careers, but not provided by employers).

Or how about those folks without a reliable place to stay? A cell phone is far more useful than a landline phone when trying to get a job. You can''t exactly install a phone in your name at another person''s house when they were nice enough to let you stay. People seem to forget that many poor people are surviving with the help of others who may be willing to provide a place to sleep but little else. Then you consider those that are renting rooms from strangers or living in motels. How do they get a landline phone? Frankly I find a cell far more essential.

 

[whitetulips]

I think that food is the biggest issue here and I would love to know where somebody can find chicken for $1/lb on sale! The post about feeding six people roasted chicken sandwiches for $10 is absolutely insane to me. It takes more than just flour and water to make bread and maybe it''s because I live in Chicago, but there is no way I think I could even feed my fiance and I roasted chicken sandwiches for $10. I second the poster who said that a lot of times people don''t have cars to load a lot of groceries in at once or who don''t live near an inexpensive grocery store. I never realized how much I took my car for granted until I sold it to move here. I live 1/2 a block from whole foods but 7 blocks from a regular grocery store. 7 blocks may not seem like much but fill one grocery basket with milk and cereal and possibly food for dinner and then try to walk with it in -7 degree weather for 7 blocks. It''s hard and it is impossible to shop in bulk, which is where the money saving factor comes in. The only time that my fiance and I tried to shop for an entire week''s worth of groceries to save money we ended up having to take a cab home because we couldn''t carry all of the groceries. There went the savings we thought we were getting.

It is always easy to sit back and see how somebody could change small parts of their life to save money, but oftentimes it is a lot harder to actually make the change. When I lived in Arizona I could afford to feed myself for a whole week for 40 dollars -now I can''t afford to feed myself for 3 days on that. I have not changed my eating habits at all, only where I live.

I will say though that I do believe people live above their means. I lived without cable all through college and even for the year and a half after college until I moved in with my fiance because I couldn''t afford it. You should see the looks that people give me when I tell them I didn''t have cable for 5 1/2 years, you would think I had elected to live in a cardboard box in a third world country. Cable is a luxury, not a necessity!

 

[luckystar112]