The one that got away...Super Ideal vs Diamond Cut Measurements (table, depth, etc.)

[CarbonBling]

Hi PriceScope Land xo

I am considering an ering upgrade (stone + new setting!). I'm wondering if y'all really notice a difference with super ideal stones (WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin, etc.) or if it is just as good to find a loose stone that might be GIAxxx/AGS0 that has the same/near measurement combinations. I ask because just a few weeks ago I almost purchased a stone through JA whose measurements were exactly the same as a WhiteFlash ACA stone (there was one fraction of a degree difference on one of the angle measurements - the IdealScope looked pretty good {I think}). Sadly, I hesitated too long, and the stone sold before I could convince my husband that it was THE ONE. Our budget will allow for a WF stone, but I would have a lot more to play with for setting if I venture outside of the super-ideal world. I'm open to any and all thoughts, input... Thanks

 

[tanalasta]

The inclusions on that ideal scope are somewhat of a deal-breaker. What was it? An SI2? Or was it eye-clean?

With the "branded" a-cut-above stones, you're paying also for the service that a gemologist at the company has looked at the stone, ensured it is eye clean and cut to ideal symmetry, proportions etc...

Flaws aside, that ideal scope does look good. I prefer both IS and ASET now.

Whiteflash have their expert selection stones that are similar and don't make the cut/price premium for ACA. Even within ACA there is variability in eye-clean (some are eye clean to their definition but can be spotted with the naked eye closer up) and proportions.

Good luck with your search!

 

[tyty333]

You do know that Super Ideal branded means more than just certain angles right?
Lots of good info at Whiteflash and what it takes to be an ACA...there is more but these 2 links should get you started.
https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/
https://www.whiteflash.com/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds.aspx

Also, the other nice thing about WF is if you want to trade up some day their policy is that you can trade in for another diamond of equal or greater value.
Other places like JA I believe are 2x your original stone. Better than nothing but not great.

 

[CarbonBling]

The inclusions on that ideal scope are somewhat of a deal-breaker. What was it? An SI2? Or was it eye-clean?

With the "branded" a-cut-above stones, you're paying also for the service that a gemologist at the company has looked at the stone, ensured it is eye clean and cut to ideal symmetry, proportions etc...

Flaws aside, that ideal scope does look good. I prefer both IS and ASET now.

Whiteflash have their expert selection stones that are similar and don't make the cut/price premium for ACA. Even within ACA there is variability in eye-clean (some are eye clean to their definition but can be spotted with the naked eye closer up) and proportions.

Good luck with your search!

Agreed, I asked for ASET, but JA said they only do ASET on their fancy shapes (). That's why I hesitated (and the stone was overseas though they could have called it in for gemologist inspection). tyty333, thank you. Yes, I have spent quite a bit of time reading up on this. Just wondering how others look at it.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I had an AGS0 stone that I traded in for an ACA stone. To me, there was a definite difference between the two. However, that level of cut precision might not be as important to you - only you can answer that question. You really cannot say that because one stone has similar numbers to another that they are an apple to apple comparison. WF goes much further than that in their light performance analysis. I don't think the above posted image compares to the WF images. I would love to tell you that there was no difference and that I sent the WF stone back but that simply didn't happen. The difference was appreciable to me and the additional cost was as well. I am much more about a well cut stone than I am about a setting but again, that might not be true for all.

 

[SimoneDi]

I would honestly take this as a sign - go with the ACA MGR recently traded in her "generic" AGS000 for an ACA and she wrote about it: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mgr-did-what-traded-her-diamond.228242/page-4
She posted some nice comparison pics that you can look at. I would also check BGD, CBI and VC to see if they have stones that could be contenders. I am very biased toward ideal H&A stones, so yes, I do think that they are different and worth it!

Edit: MGR posted while I was posting, so just read above

 

[bmfang]

If you are willing to put in the time and effort negotiating with vendors like JA for scope images, then by all means buy using preferred specs that many of us have posted about here on PS for stones with super-ideal proportions.

But if not, buying from a PS forum recommended vendor that sells their own branded super-ideal stones is far more preferable. WF's upgrade policy is the most flexible of the lot, followed by BGD in my books.

 

[CarbonBling]

Thanks all for the input everyone!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My H&A stones are from WF, but Good Old Gold has some, too, and was not listed in the vendors above that carry them. They have the same upgrade policy as WF, I believe.

That original stone probably had clarity issues that would have ruled it out.

 

[Dancing Fire]

IMO, you must compare a regular ideal cut and a top ideal H&A cut under many different type of lighting conditions. I'm always willing to pay the extra 5%? for an H&A stone.

 

[CarbonBling]

Thanks DS2006 and Dancing Fire. Yes, I forgot to mention GOG.

 

[OoohShiny]

Don't forget @Wink at High Performance Diamonds with his Crafted by Infinity stones - I believe they have one of the best upgrade / buyback policies, something like 80% of the original value if you need to use the latter?!

 

[Titan7]

My wife has a couple AGS0 dimaonds, upgraded her wedding ring to a WF ACA, big difference! If you have an eye for detail and want the best I think only one of the super ideal H&A cuts from any of the PS vendors would be a better way to go.

 

[koolio2017]

Hi PriceScope Land xo

I am considering an ering upgrade (stone + new setting!). I'm wondering if y'all really notice a difference with super ideal stones (WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin, etc.) or if it is just as good to find a loose stone that might be GIAxxx/AGS0 that has the same/near measurement combinations. I ask because just a few weeks ago I almost purchased a stone through JA whose measurements were exactly the same as a WhiteFlash ACA stone (there was one fraction of a degree difference on one of the angle measurements - the IdealScope looked pretty good {I think}). Sadly, I hesitated too long, and the stone sold before I could convince my husband that it was THE ONE. Our budget will allow for a WF stone, but I would have a lot more to play with for setting if I venture outside of the super-ideal world. I'm open to any and all thoughts, input... Thanks

Just because it has the same measurements does not mean the cut is equal. I had this same problem buying by the numbers with BN---E VS1 2.14 triple X with ideal proportions. I had to return it because there was some optical asymmetry that bothered me alot. I ended up getting an ACA instead which does not have that and sparkled much more than the GIA stone.

Here's my original post from a couple months ago...it tells you that even a GIA stone rated triple X with great numbers does not mean it's a great stone:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...eed-opinion-on-diamond-and-idealscope.230701/

If this is a big purchase for you....make sure you're totally happy with it. I thought I could buy it blind just using numbers but that's a very difficult endeavor. The truth is...if you want quality---you will have to pay for it. I am sure there are GIA stones that may be as good as ACA stones floating out there somewhere... I have spent 3-4 months looking for them and they are not that common at all. Oh and forget about finding a random perfect Hearts and Arrows. I am sure the vendors would know if he has a true H&A stone and would demand a premium for it. You might get extremely lucky and find one but it's probably not worth the hassle of buying and returning.

 

[CarbonBling]

Thanks everyone! All good info, good reminders, good insight. Thanks for sharing xo I'll keep ya posted. I told my hubs that I'm gonna turn up the heat on this purchase in the next month or so. He just smiled....