The Demon Dog won''t eat ANYTHING -- please give me some advice

[pricescope]

I am glad to see Demon is eating now.

When things settle down and you are sure it was not a bug or something else, do some "counseling" for Demon.
It''s easy, just accept that dogs are smart and understand people talking.

Let Bill ones in a time tell Demon "I''ll be back" walk out of the door and come back and say "I am back"
Over time dog will trust this promise.

....now i really sound like a nut...

 

[Kaleigh]

I say that all the time to my Bichon's Irina.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/4/2006 6:24:51 PM
Author: Mara
Rainbow I will only ever give Portia human grade dog foods...the processed brands like Iams and all the other ones in the ''grocery store'' have a huge amount of CORN and meals in them which don''t really do anything for the dog but make them fatter faster...just like humans.

I had never heard about that until Jessica Simpson got her puppy and the trainer came over and mentioned that they were using the wrong dog food

. Zoe has always done fine on Iams and is not over weight at all. She will be 6 later this year. She gets a lot of excersise so maybe that''s why

. She also has never been sick except for the one chicken incident. Who would have thought i''d learn new info about doggie''s from a diamond site.

i''m going to have a lot of research to do like finding a new vet, food etc.

 

[Mara]

MrsS...I think that most of the chunky dogs end up eating those types of foods and then NOT getting exercise!! Also people tend to not modify their dog''s diet with the seasons...so we see alot of dogs who were in shape over the summer in the park suddenly gain 5 lbs during the winter because the parents are feeding them the same thing as before but the dogs are very sedentary.

When my parents took their Beagle to the vet, she told them she had a form of animal diabetes, kind of odd, she''s older and they fed her regular random dog foods for years and also they give her alot of processed treats. The vet told them to stop giving her those types of treats and instead of use natural treats, aka carrot sticks or baked treats like we use for Portia (the Wellness biscuits seem yummy!) and she has been on California Natural for some years now.

It''s fun to learn continuously about dogs for me, what makes them tick, how they think (or don''t) and how they differ from us.

Oh and yes the separation anxiety training is a great idea...have Bill keep coming and going and greeting them each time and eventually they will get used to it. Though Greg does say that when I am gone for a few days aka traveling for work that P kind of mopes around the house and seems more needy because I am her primary caregiver and she spends the most time with me. So even though I come and go a few times a day with her, I guess she is able to tell when its a few days and I haven''t come back!

 

[XChick03]

Glad to hear he''s eating now and there was nothing medically wrong!

Changes can have a very upsetting affect on animals. And its especially hard for them when their favorite person (or people) is suddenly gone. They don''t understand that the person is coming back, just that they aren''t around anymore. Seperation anxiety can be different for every dog, and instead of refusing to eat, my lovely dog decides to destroy a roll of toilet paper and leave us "welcome home" confetti.

I think the seperation anxiety training is a great idea and good luck with it!

Btw, I also refer to my wonderful little GSD puppy as "the demon dog" because I could just swear she''s possessed at times.

 

[monarch64]

Well, tonight DH went to Petsmart for ear cleaning solution, and also returned with a bottle of "Calm Down." It''s an herbal liquid to give dogs who need to calm down, apparently. You give them 1-2 tsp. of the stuff before a stressful event (storms, road trips, vet appt., etc.) You can either give it to them straight up (yeah right) or mix it with their water ( it''s a clear liquid). I would ask if anyone''s tried it, but since it hasn''t been mentioned I will assume no one has. We''re trying it tomorrow morning, because we''ll be back and forth to the neighbor''s for their Superbowl party, and when we come and go frequently (or break the usual routine) Mr. Milo goes insane because we aren''t taking him with us! We have tried to do the sep. anx. training (leaving and coming back for different periods of time) but this seems to drive him further into the crazy department. So we''ll see if this works--I''ll let you know.

 

[Dee Jay]

Now he's eating everything BUT his dog food.

Bananna vanilla treats -- bring 'em on!

Chicken jerkey -- can't get enough!

Chicken soup -- like manna from heaven!

But dog food -- what are you, stupid???

We tried to mix treats in with his food, but he (like the green bean separating dog!) is very adept at picking out what he wants.

We're going to leave the food bowl down today and see if he finally gets around to it. But at least he's not moping around any more, so I'm thankful for that.

And we are definitely going to start saying I'll be back/I am back. Hopefully he'll catch on!

 

[Lorelei]

Great news! He was just missing his Dad! Bless him! I know it sounds strange but I always tell all my animals too if there is anything that concerns them such as we will be out for a while, when they have to go to the vet etc - it does sound weird but it works! Give it a try and I am so glad to hear he is better.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 2/5/2006 1:18:36 AM
Author: monarch64
I would ask if anyone''s tried it, but since it hasn''t been mentioned I will assume no one has.


Milo goes insane because we aren''t taking him with us! We have tried to do the sep. anx. training (leaving and coming back for different periods of time) but this seems to drive him further into the crazy department. So we''ll see if this works--I''ll let you know.

Monarch, we did have a thread about thunderstorm scare and someone mentioned that kind of treatment, let me try to dig it out for you. And have fun!

Just to make sure we are talking about the same procedure - not just leaving and coming back, but talking to your dog about it in a simple and persistent way.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 2/5/2006 9:18:48 AM
Author: Dee Jay
Now he''s eating everything BUT his dog food.

Bananna vanilla treats -- bring ''em on!

Chicken jerkey -- can''t get enough!

Chicken soup -- like manna from heaven!

But dog food -- what are you, stupid???

We tried to mix treats in with his food, but he (like the green bean separating dog!) is very adept at picking out what he wants.

We''re going to leave the food bowl down today and see if he finally gets around to it. But at least he''s not moping around any more, so I''m thankful for that.

And we are definitely going to start saying I''ll be back/I am back. Hopefully he''ll catch on!

He he he, now Demon just getting back at you, i would tell you not to leave his bowl with dog food sitting around, but i don''t. I like to spoil dogs too

 

[belle]

monarch,
i think this is the thunderstrom thread irina is referring to.

 

[Jelly]

Date: 2/5/2006 9:18:48 AM
Author: Dee Jay
Now he''s eating everything BUT his dog food.

Bananna vanilla treats -- bring ''em on!

Chicken jerkey -- can''t get enough!

Chicken soup -- like manna from heaven!

But dog food -- what are you, stupid???

We tried to mix treats in with his food, but he (like the green bean separating dog!) is very adept at picking out what he wants.

We''re going to leave the food bowl down today and see if he finally gets around to it. But at least he''s not moping around any more, so I''m thankful for that.

And we are definitely going to start saying I''ll be back/I am back. Hopefully he''ll catch on!

I''m very happy to hear that the demon dog is eating again! My dog, Jelly, is also a very picky eater. Have you tried pouring the chicken broth from the soup over his dog food?

 

[widget]

Author: Pricescope
tell Demon ''I''ll be back'' walk out of the door and come back and say ''I am back''
Over time dog will trust this promise.

Hee hee I''ve been saying that to my dogs for years! Given their stricken looks of disappointment and heartbreak, I figure "I''ll be back" to them means: "I''m abandoning you forever"...

widget

 

[pricescope]

The sure have those tools to make you feel guilty, haven't they?

Thanks belle

 

[ecf8503]

I''ve been following this thread, and I hesitate to even reply, as I don''t know what to say.

You all have made very valid points - both good and bad, re: the veterinary profession. My gut reaction is to defend our entire profession, but the truth is there are some vets out there who are better than others. I like to stay on top of current research, and I do not consider myself "bought" by any food company.

Animals can have sensitivities and sometimes true allergies to many things, just like people can. There is nothing wrong with boneless, cooked chicken - unless you are sensitive to it, which is actually a protein intolerance issue. The same could be said for hamburger, turkey, as well as various grain products. That''s why there are commercially available limited ingredient diets for animals with specific sensitivities (Duck and Green Pea, as an example).

There is nothing inherently wrong with corn either, HOWEVER - many animals are sensitive to it, and there are some companies whose products use corn as the primary carb source (Science Diet namely). That said, Mara brought up some good points re: corn - and the human food industry is a good comparison. Back in the 70''s, sugar was made prohibitively expensive to buy - on purpose - to force food companies to use domestic sources of sweeteners, namely high fructose corn syrup. (Remember Sugar Pops? Now they are Corn Pops (because they are sweetened with HFCS instead of sugar - and the corn name elicits images of "healthy" - also a marketing ploy).

There has been some research ih human nutrition suggesting that the use of HFCS is directly related to the obesity epidemic, and if one looks for and purposely avoids HFCS, that weight loss and improved cardiovascular status will follow. Even pure sugar is "healthier" for you than HFCS. In fact, Canada still uses real sugar, and if you go over the border and get a Coke it will taste very different - because it uses real sugar.

But that''s besides the point. I agree with Mara and rainbowtrout re: human grade pet foods - if you can afford them and if they are readily avaiable to you, why not use them? However - there is also nothing wrong with MOST commercially available mass products. Iams / Eukanuba (same company), Science Diet, Nutro, and Purina all make good products. Yes there are artificial colors, flavors, and preservatives in some of them (try Nutro if these worry you - they don''t use anything artificial). I also think there is a lot we don''t yet know about foods and nutrition, just like in people - science is always evolving. I do agree with the the lower carb approach, especially for cats.

Please make sure when you read a nutrition label on pet food that you realize they are NOT the same as a human food label - and purposely (although deceptively, in my opinion) so. Protiens and moisture, etc are listed in min / max percentages, so you know something is at least X%, but that''s like saying, I''m thinking of a number greater than 5. What? And don''t confuse proper medical names for essential vitamins and minerals listed on the ingredient list for "chemicals and additives" - pet foods are required by law to have certain amounts of vitamins and minerals in order to meet minimum standards for a "balanced diet".

Food in animals has as much impact on their health as our diet does on us - we will survive, we can live, on McDonalds. But is that really the healthiest choice?

I realize there are some vets out there that are better than others (having worked in an emergency clinic I can say many of the "day practice" vets whose patients we see referrals from are less than stellar). If you are ever uncomfortable with your vet''s advice or lack of concern, then find a new vet.

Good veterinarians keep up on current research and have an open mind - there is really no right or wrong way to do anything. Medicine is not a science - we learn more all the time, and as much as we know now we will know even more tomorrow. It is harder to get into vet school than it is to get into human medical school - something else to ponder. And as my husband often says, he''d "rather have a vet do surgery on him than a human doctor do surgery on one of our pets"!

Just my 2c -

Christine, D.V.M.

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks for your input Christine. There are some incredible vets out there who really go above and beyond for their clients and animals. However I feel the best thing is to be as involved in your pet''s care as you can possibly be ( as most of us are) and like with diamonds - trust and verify. Trust your vet and take their advice and follow it but don''t be afraid to question them if there is something you don''t understand and try to learn as much as you can about your dog or cat and have a basic knowledge of common injuries and disease conditions. If your pet has a chronic illness, learn as much as you can to manage it.

I have had a bad experience with vets who gave me the wrong advice with one of my animals and it made his condition needlessly worse. I had to take matters into my own hands to get this animal right again and I am very glad I knew where to go for the right help and how to manage this disease, otherwise I shudder to think what the outcome could have been. I find that having a basic knowledge is very helpful as in this way I can care for my animals better, my vet appreciates my input and questions and we can work together which has to be a good thing for all concerned.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Thanks for the post, it is good to hear what someone with an actual degree has to say!

RE: high fructose corn syrup. Yes, I have read this too--there was a big series on diabetes in the times recently in which this was brought up.

As for the food companies "buying" vets: Of course I did not mean that every veterinarian was "bought" any more than every human doctor is bought by a drug company, and I am sorry if that was how my comment was understood. There are just some interesting parallels, at least from the talk I had with my vet. I did also notice that human doctors until recently have been pretty ignorant how how diet, vitamins effect health.


My gripe with Iams is not so much what is in their food as the fact that they test it on pets. While they may treat them just fine, to me there seems something wierd and cruel to test animal products on less fortunante animals. Like "rich" animals and "poor" animals then, if that makes any sense. Also there was the fuss with PETA which, while probably hype, made me a little wary of Iams.

Personally I would prefer someone buy cheap pet food than try and make up a cat''s diet all on their own; I imagine the results could be disastrous if the supplements such as taurine are not there.

 

[Mara]

In case any dog owners are interested, I have found a great online source for buying P''s treats and chew sticks. www.nycpetsupply.com. We definitely save alot of money each month buying from them even with shipping to California. I buy P bully sticks in bulk and they are 1/3 of the price as in retail stores and the chicken strips are $20 locally and $12 online!

Here are the two things that we give her as treats and she just LOVES them in case anyone is intersted in trying them out...Human grade ingredients. Also she adores the Liver Biscotti as small training treats!

Dogswell Chicken Strips with Vitamins...there is Vitality, Happy Hips, Healthy Heart and Breathies:
http://www.nycpetsupply.com/product.php?productid=2053&cat=0&page=1

Wellness Wellbar Crunchy Peanuts and Honey oven-baked biscuits:
http://www.nycpetsupply.com/product.php?productid=1868&cat=0&page=5

And in case anyone is interested, here is her dog food, Candidae..it lists out the positives as well as the ingredient list:
http://www.nycpetsupply.com/product.php?productid=42&cat=23&page=1

 

[Dee Jay]

Still not interested in real food, but eating treats. My husband thinks I''m being suckered -- by nowThe Demon has figured out that if he holds out long enough he''ll get plenty of the *good stuff*!

Christine, thanks so much for weighing in. And please be assured that I have nothing but respect for the veterinary calling, but in this instance I just don''t think my concerns were taken very seriously. No chance you''re in Chicago is there? I would happily switch the Demon over to you for care in a heartbeat!

And Mara, thanks a lot for the links and all the good info during this ordeal.

Still hoping Dino gets hungry enough to eat some food, or else we are off tomorrow to the V-E-T (he knows the word, so I have to spell -- LOL!).

 

[Caribou]

I didn''t read through all of this....

I would make sure that nothing is wrong with him. I had a cat that suddenly stopped eating, it was because it was an exceptionally hot summer and we had no A/C so we assumed that was why. It turned out that she had feline lukemia.

When my brother and I were younger, we would go visit my dad in the summer time. We would leave pretty much the day after school got out and didn''t return until a couple days before school started up again. My mom told us that our dog, who we had since we were babies, would stop eating as soon as we left, since we were gone for 2 months, she start eating eventually but she was just so sad that we were gone. If your husband is ''demon dogs'' favorite and he''s gone it''s most likely seperation anxiety.

 

[tiger007g]

Dee Jay -

I''m glad your baby is doing better! My older dog is a very fussy eater and is a master of human-manipulation!

As a puppy, he didn''t like his food and I tried 4 or 5 different brands to get him to eat. My vet told me he was healthy and would eat when he was hungry... he went for 4 days (9 week old puppy) without eating. I would put out food, he''d sniff at it, eat a few kibbles, spit it out and walk away. I was SO worried! We discovered that he didn''t care for lamb, but loved fish or chicken-based foods. He now eats Nutro for sensitive stomachs which is made of chicken and oatmeal.

Something I''ve been doing is to freeze low-sodium broth (chicken or beef) in icecube trays. I will microwave a cube of broth diluted with a little water and pour it over his kibble. The warm broth gets absorbed into the kibble and my dog LOVES it.

My husband is frequently away for long stretches of time and the dogs definitely get depressed. Whenever he calls, I put him on speaker phone and the dogs get really excited and try to lick the phone. He talks to them for a couple of minutes and it really lifts their spirits.

 

[Dee Jay]

Ah ha!!!!!!!

When Bill picked The Demon up from doggie day care today he found out that a lot of people have reported their dogs as having stomach bugs over the past several days!

See, he''s not just neurotic! (My dog that is, not my husband - LOL!)

Bill is off to the grocery store to get some rice and Immodium.

(All this trauma and drama over a stomach buy -- sheesh!)

 

[Mara]

that''s interesting dee jay, portia was sick last week really horribly with an upset stomach...we thought maybe she ate something in the field but maybe she got the ''bug'' from another dog out in the field...we saw about 10 of her friends the night she started acting odd.

all that drama over a stomach bug, tell me about it. i was sleeping downstairs with her on the couch so i could run her out every hour to the lawn and cleaning up lovely spots on the rug for a few days! i remember thinking gosh this is good training for a sick child!

 

[fire&ice]

There is some sort of bug that is going around. Gus got it back in November. It''s pretty nasty - and my pups are regular as rain. But, it involved more than just not eating. He had terrible diareaha (very unusual for him). A simple stool sample could tell you yay or nay. Gus was on antibiotics & a chicken and pasta dinner (which he willingly ate). It took a good week for him to be back to his self.

 

[Dee Jay]

Mara - training for a sick child is right! Geez Louise...

F&I - we have no kitchen right now (remodeling is hell!) so we''re resorting to things that can be cooked in the microwave. Fortunately The Demon is wlling to eat plain microwaveable rice without any sort of chicken or other meat. It''s pretty funny though because he gets the white rice kernels stuck to his nose and has a hard time getting them off!
We''re trying one more day of rice and Immodium because everybody at doggie day care said that worked for them. And we''re soliciting our friends for vet recommendations. (I never realized that virtually everyone we know has a dog until I started calling around to see what vet they use and if they like him/her.)

The Demon is looking rather skinny, but he''s pretty perky--much more so than he was a few days ago.

Ug.

 

[pricescope]

The most absorbent (that''s what you are looking for in rice) part of rice is slimy liquid you can get from boiling plain non-polished white rice. And it has healing properties for stomach inlay disturbed tru illness.

Dee Jay, i dont think you will be able to prepare it a microwave, but you can ask for this type of rice in any Chinese restaurant or sushi place - ask for a sticky rice.

 

[Dee Jay]

PS - Thanks for the info and what a good idea! I live right by a sushi place and I'm sure they'll sell me a side of sticky rice. (Plus a little something for me too of course!)

 

[Mara]

DJ, P was looking pretty ragged and thin last week too, she takes on a ''gray'' hue when she is not feeling well, but last nite I remarked that she looked plump and white again and tomorrow is her last day of antibiotic so hopefully we are back to normal, crossing fingers.