The Day After, Reflections

[LLJsmom]

"Locker room talk" argument is so offensive. It is victim blaming and feeds into a major problem we have in this society. I don't buy into "boys will be boys" theory. There is right and wrong. No one, male or female, should be touched unless wanted. That is the ultimate boundary violation. I hoped for more. I think our country deserves more.

COMPLETELY AGREE TACORI.

 

[Tekate]

Seriously? The utter nasty shit that has been spewed here just on PS toward conservatives and you wonder why people would not say anything? The other thread that shows 23 voters for Trump, I know maybe 2 or 3 that actually posted.

Yes, the piling on mentality and bullying accusations from PSers is disheartening

I find it quite disheartening that people don't understand the liberal vote, the people who care about each other... it's quite disheartening to me to see this on Pricescope.

 

[Tekate]

As I had feared, white evangelical christians voted him into office.

http://religionnews.com/2016/11/09/religious-reactions-to-trump-win-time-to-rebuild-and-to-reconcile/

Sorry, I guess I missed the memo stating that us "white, evangelical Christians" weren't allowed a voice or vote. That we were just to supposed to sit back, shut up, stay home, and pay our taxes while not having a say in how they are spent or by whom. My bad.

And some democrats wonder WHY people voted the way they did and why our country is so divided.

I wouldn't suggest that. What I resent is their unbridled joy and praising the lord over (what they think will be) their ability to shove their tenets down the throats of everyone until we're choking on their righteousness. Their fear of "the other" so intense and their overwhelming desire to hang onto their power and infect government with religious beliefs that no longer represent the changing populace of the country. Bathroom laws anyone? Pence believing you can electrocute gays straight. Christopher Hitchens nailed it when he said "religion poisons everything."

YES!!!! I am not Christian! I am born here.. I do not want my children infected by 'religious right values' they are not mine.

 

[Tekate]

Momhappy, I do NOT understand what you are saying??? are you saying that now that TRUMPER has been elected that we, those who did NOT vote for him should surmise that he didn't mean what he said? that we 'all' should know that he was not being honest?

God help me. Seriously... I believed what he said and that is why I was against him! you can sign off and 'say' that it's going no where because you have no answer. I say to you, he's a liar then.

 

[LLJsmom]

I wish I had written this.

I don’t think you understand us right now.
I think you think this is about politics.
I think you believe this is all just sour grapes; the crocodile tears of the losing locker room with the scoreboard going against us at the buzzer.
I can only tell you that you’re wrong. This is not about losing an election. This isn’t about not winning a contest. This is about two very different ways of seeing the world.
Hillary supporters believe in a diverse America; one where religion or skin color or sexual orientation or place of birth aren’t liabilities or deficiencies or moral defects. Her campaign was one of inclusion and connection and interdependency. It was about building bridges and breaking ceilings. It was about going high.
Trump supporters believe in a very selective America; one that is largely white and straight and Christian, and the voting verified this. Donald Trump has never made any assertions otherwise. He ran a campaign of fear and exclusion and isolation—and that’s the vision of the world those who voted for him have endorsed.
They have aligned with the wall-builder and the professed p*ssy-grabber, and they have co-signed his body of work, regardless of the reasons they give for their vote:
Every horrible thing Donald Trump ever said about women or Muslims or people of color has now been validated.
Every profanity-laced press conference and every call to bully protestors and every ignorant diatribe has been endorsed.
Every piece of anti-LGBTQ legislation Mike Pence has championed has been signed-off on.
Half of our country has declared these things acceptable, noble, American.
This is the disconnect and the source of our grief today. It isn’t a political defeat that we’re lamenting, it’s a defeat for Humanity.
We’re not angry that our candidate lost. We’re angry because our candidate’s losing means this country will be less safe, less kind, and less available to a huge segment of its population, and that’s just the truth.
Those who have always felt vulnerable are now left more so. Those whose voices have been silenced will be further quieted. Those who always felt marginalized will be pushed further to the periphery. Those who feared they were seen as inferior now have confirmation in actual percentages.
Those things have essentially been campaign promises of Donald Trump, and so many of our fellow citizens have said this is what they want too.
This has never been about politics.
This is not about one candidate over the other.
It’s not about one’s ideas over another’s.
It is not blue vs. red.
It’s not her emails vs. his bad language.
It’s not her dishonesty vs. his indecency.
It’s about overt racism and hostility toward minorities.
It’s about religion being weaponized.
It’s about crassness and vulgarity and disregard for women.
It’s about a barricaded, militarized, bully nation.
It’s about an unapologetic, open-faced ugliness.
And it is not only that these things have been ratified by our nation that grieve us; all this hatred, fear, racism, bigotry, and intolerance—it’s knowing that these things have been amen-ed by our neighbors, our families, our friends, those we work with and worship alongside. That is the most horrific thing of all. We now know how close this is.
It feels like living in enemy territory being here now, and there’s no way around that. We wake up today in a home we no longer recognize. We are grieving the loss of a place we used to love but no longer do. This may be America today but it is not the America we believe in or recognize or want.
This is not about a difference of political opinion, as that’s far too small to mourn over. It’s about a fundamental difference in how we view the worth of all people—not just those who look or talk or think or vote the way we do.
Grief always laments what might have been, the future we were robbed of, the tomorrow that we won’t get to see, and that is what we walk through today. As a nation we had an opportunity to affirm the beauty of our diversity this day, to choose ideas over sound bytes, to let everyone know they had a place at the table, to be the beacon of goodness and decency we imagine that we are—and we said no.
The Scriptures say that weeping endures for a night but joy comes in the morning. We can’t see that dawn coming any time soon.
And this is why we grieve.
- John Pavlovitz

Articulated what was in my heart. Thank you Author.

 

[Tekate]

My thoughts?
A big f-you to the mainstream media that tried to force Hillary on the people.
Not Hillary and the NRA won the election.
It will be very interesting to see what Trump does as president. Who knows he may turn out to be a good president.
Where in my opinion Hillary would have never made a good president.
I want to see a woman president someday, but not just because she is a woman but because she is the best person for the job.
I have kept pretty quiet this election season because I don't care to talk about it and have many friends on both sides of the political spectrum. So this will be my comment about it.

How about some punkie pie?

So now that Trump won you feel more at liberty to insult Hillary? Bc you don't fear you will lose customers now that you know you were not alone in supporting Trump? Not good business Bc most people on this forum do not share your feelings. Just saying

My feelings too..

 

[mochiko42]

I wish I could be like others and put a happy and optimistic face on this, but I cannot. We have done away with our checks and balances; current senate will not even let Obama fill the supreme court seat.. Maybe listening to Hamilton too much, but Trump is similar to Aaron Burr; power at any cost. And it will cost all of us.

I am waiting to see the mass deportations.
I am waiting to see the Mexican Wall go up, paid by the Mexicans.
I am waiting to see Muslim ban go into effect.
I am waiting to see the US pull funding and support out of NATO and UN.
I am waiting to see the US renegade on Trade Agreements.

The above is what the new President of the USA said he will do whilst campaigning.

My husband was working at the office of a major Chinese state newspaper yesterday and he reported that his mainland Chinese colleagues were openly ecstatic that Trump won. Somewhere in Beijing Zhongnanhai (the Chinese government equivalent of the white house), Xi Jinping must be throwing a celebration party.

Wow! why do you think they were elated? Because Trump is going to slap tariffs on Chinese goods... I'm surprised because I have not read anywhere that this will be good for the Chinese.

I am not a professional China / US analyst but these are my casual observations:

1. Politics -
All high school and college students in China have to take mandatory classes extolling the virtue of Marxist philosophy and 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' (e.g. Stalin, Marxist, Maoist philosophy, Deng Xiaoping thought & principles [Deng was the one who ordered the Tiananmen square massacre in '89], and so on and so forth). It is indoctrinated in the educated and elite class that Chinese one-party rule (socialism/ communism etc) is the best way of ruling. Most of the elite and rich class are members of the Chinese Communist Party and have ties to the government and/or the military. In universities in China, being a member of the Chinese communist youth league is seen as the way to get ahead and grow your networks and influence. This means that a large segment of the educated, rich and powerful in China are conditioned and are invested in the system of one-party/non-elected/non-democratic and view strongmen as better leaders. They're taught to gravitate to strongmen like Trump, and the resulting chaos and division of the US election will seem as validation of the Chinese style of doing things and the failure/weakness of the democractic model (especially of liberal politics).

2. Culture/sexism -
China is still relatively traditional and conservative. An aggressive macho guy like Trump would seem 'stronger' than Clinton. This also meshes with the preference for strongmen politicians. While chairman Mao did indeed promote women in the workplace and he said that women 'hold up half the sky', in reality relatively few women make it to the top echelon of the Chinese Communist party, state-owned enterprise or even private companies. There are a few exceptions but it's still a very traditional conservative male-skewed society (not least in the fact that people still prefer to have male babies instead of female babies). Also Hilary is known as an experienced and savvy politician, who was very familiar with international politics. China did not like her for these reasons. Trump on the other hand is seen as easily impressed and not interested in details. Some jokes have circulated that the Chinese could just dazzle Trump with baijiu (liquor) and hookers and lavish banquets, and then he would be willing to sign anything and be Xi Jinping's new best golfing buddy. Trump is seen as a businessman who has little regard for niceties and soft topics like human rights so he would be some one that the Chinese leadership could easily work with and negotiate/manipulate.

3. Human rights and other 'soft' topics, US as a leader in the international community, the end of US global hegemony-
Hillary was known to be more outward-looking and internationally-minded in terms of politics and diplomacy. She was expected to be tougher on China on things that concern Democrats and liberals, such as Tibet, human rights, labor standards, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the current multi-national political crisis in the south China Sea, etc. Trump has hardly mentioned these topics at all and does not have a track record of displaying interest in pushing China on what the Chinese leaders and elite class regard as China's internal affairs. The Chinese are extremely sensitive on what they see as America's encroachment / involvement in its back yard (Asia Pacific) and on America sticking its nose in Chinese domestic issues. They expect Trump to be less interested in international diplomatic affairs since he wants to pull the US out of the UN, TPP, etc. This is great news for many in China, from the Chinese government and ruling class to the Chinese fishermen who are illegally entering Philippine and Vietnamese waters to catch fish. Trump's disinterest in America continuing its role as a major player in international diplomacy and global politics may translate to budget cuts for many US aid and development initiatives overseas, from USAID to Fulbright to plain old military presence in places like Japan or Korea or Africa. This means that developing and vulnerable countries will pivot to China as a benefactor and partner instead of the US. China has spent years building roads, hospitals, schools, mines, and entire towns everywhere from Angola to Vietnam. Chinese money is everywhere in the African continent and Southeast Asia, together with hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers working on Chinese construction projects (it's estimated there are 1 million Chinese migrants in Africa ). If President Trump causes the US to withdraw or reduce its role as a global superpower on the world stage, China is ready and willing to fill the gap. Vulnerable countries like Vietnam and Philippines who currently have real and immediate conflicts with China will no longer be able to rely on the support of the US (eg for years China has been illegally building military bases and artificial islands in the south China sea in what is considered to be international waters, also claimed by Vietnam and Philippines. Also China has built many hydro electric dams in the Mekong river basin upstream, reducing water supply to populations and farmers downstream in Laos and Cambodia.)

4. Economics and Trade-
China is no longer the emerging economy of 10 or 20 years ago. There are over 1 billion people in China. That's 1 billion consumers. According to McKinsey, in 2013, 256 million of them were classified as middle class. Whereas the population of the US is 318 million. Exports to the US from China have been on a downward trend for several years now and the trade surplus has been shrinking as China is now buying more and more goods and services from the US. This means that the balance of power has been shifting from the US to China. Soon the US will need China more than China needs the US. In 2015, the US exported $115 billion to China while China exported $482 billion to the US. It's still a huge gap but it has been narrowing over time. China is buying more American goods and companies and real estate than ever before while the US investment in China is slowing. (e.g. Chinese companies and individuals invested $110B-plus in American properties from 2010-2015). Frankly put, trade tariffs with the US wouldn't really scare the Chinese because exports to America are not as important it used to be. China is a lot richer and more powerful now. It's not that they like trade tariffs but they would prefer not to have a president Clinton. Also many people here figure Trump is a business man at the end of the day, he's all talk about trade tariffs etc but will fold in the end to make a deal. The best cards are in China's hands, too.

I mostly mention the reaction of the Chinese leadership and elite & educated classes before they would be most informed about the US election. The less well educated or less well off would also hear about Trump winning the election but to them it would be so far removed from their everyday life they would not give it much thought, much the same way that Jane Doe in Peoria might hear about Brexit in the news but not see or notice any difference to her everyday life.


Sorry--- this is probably more than you wanted to read!!

 

[Tekate]

I wish I could be like others and put a happy and optimistic face on this, but I cannot. We have done away with our checks and balances; current senate will not even let Obama fill the supreme court seat.. Maybe listening to Hamilton too much, but Trump is similar to Aaron Burr; power at any cost. And it will cost all of us.

I am waiting to see the mass deportations.
I am waiting to see the Mexican Wall go up, paid by the Mexicans.
I am waiting to see Muslim ban go into effect.
I am waiting to see the US pull funding and support out of NATO and UN.
I am waiting to see the US renegade on Trade Agreements.

The above is what the new President of the USA said he will do whilst campaigning.

My husband was working at the office of a major Chinese state newspaper yesterday and he reported that his mainland Chinese colleagues were openly ecstatic that Trump won. Somewhere in Beijing Zhongnanhai (the Chinese government equivalent of the white house), Xi Jinping must be throwing a celebration party.

Wow! why do you think they were elated? Because Trump is going to slap tariffs on Chinese goods... I'm surprised because I have not read anywhere that this will be good for the Chinese.

I am not a professional China / US analyst but these are my casual observations:

1. Politics -
All high school and college students in China have to take mandatory classes extolling the virtue of Marxist philosophy and 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' (e.g. Stalin, Marxist, Maoist philosophy, Deng Xiaoping thought & principles [Deng was the one who ordered the Tiananmen square massacre in '89], and so on and so forth). It is indoctrinated in the educated and elite class that Chinese one-party rule (socialism/ communism etc) is the best way of ruling. Most of the elite and rich class are members of the Chinese Communist Party and have ties to the government and/or the military. In universities in China, being a member of the Chinese communist youth league is seen as the way to get ahead and grow your networks and influence. This means that a large segment of the educated, rich and powerful in China are conditioned and are invested in the system of one-party/non-elected/non-democratic and view strongmen as better leaders. They're taught to gravitate to strongmen like Trump, and the resulting chaos and division of the US election will seem as validation of the Chinese style of doing things and the failure/weakness of the democractic model (especially of liberal politics).

2. Culture/sexism -
China is still relatively traditional and conservative. An aggressive macho guy like Trump would seem 'stronger' than Clinton. This also meshes with the preference for strongmen politicians. While chairman Mao did indeed promote women in the workplace and he said that women 'hold up half the sky', in reality relatively few women make it to the top echelon of the Chinese Communist party, state-owned enterprise or even private companies. There are a few exceptions but it's still a very traditional conservative male-skewed society (not least in the fact that people still prefer to have male babies instead of female babies). Also Hilary is known as an experienced and savvy politician, who was very familiar with international politics. China did not like her for these reasons. Trump on the other hand is seen as easily impressed and not interested in details. Some jokes have circulated that the Chinese could just dazzle Trump with baijiu (liquor) and hookers and lavish banquets, and then he would be willing to sign anything and be Xi Jinping's new best golfing buddy. Trump is seen as a businessman who has little regard for niceties and soft topics like human rights so he would be some one that the Chinese leadership could easily work with and negotiate/manipulate.

3. Human rights and other 'soft' topics, US as a leader in the international community, the end of US global hegemony-
Hillary was known to be more outward-looking and internationally-minded in terms of politics and diplomacy. She was expected to be tougher on China on things that concern Democrats and liberals, such as Tibet, human rights, labor standards, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the current multi-national political crisis in the south China Sea, etc. Trump has hardly mentioned these topics at all and does not have a track record of displaying interest in pushing China on what the Chinese leaders and elite class regard as China's internal affairs. The Chinese are extremely sensitive on what they see as America's encroachment / involvement in its back yard (Asia Pacific) and on America sticking its nose in Chinese domestic issues. They expect Trump to be less interested in international diplomatic affairs since he wants to pull the US out of the UN, TPP, etc. This is great news for many in China, from the Chinese government and ruling class to the Chinese fishermen who are illegally entering Philippine and Vietnamese waters to catch fish. Trump's disinterest in America continuing its role as a major player in international diplomacy and global politics may translate to budget cuts for many US aid and development initiatives overseas, from USAID to Fulbright to plain old military presence in places like Japan or Korea or Africa. This means that developing and vulnerable countries will pivot to China as a benefactor and partner instead of the US. China has spent years building roads, hospitals, schools, mines, and entire towns everywhere from Angola to Vietnam. Chinese money is everywhere in the African continent and Southeast Asia, together with hundreds of thousands of Chinese construction workers. If President Trump causes the US to withdraw or reduce its role as a global superpower on the world stage, China is ready and willing to fill the gap. Vulnerable countries like Vietnam and Philippines who currently have real and immediate conflicts with China will no longer be able to rely on the support of the US (eg for years China has been illegally building military bases and artificial islands in the south China sea in what is considered to be international waters, also claimed by Vietnam and Philippines. Also China has built many hydro electric dams in the Mekong river basic upstream, reducing water supply to populations and farmers downstream in Laos and Cambodia.)

4. Economics and Trade-
China is no longer the emerging economy of 10 or 20 years ago. There are over 1 billion people in China. That's 1 billion consumers. According to McKinsey, in 2013, 256 million of them were classified as middle class. Whereas the population of the US is 318 million. Exports to the US from China have been on a downward trend for several years now and the trade surplus has been shrinking as China is now buying more and more goods and services from the US. This means that the balance of power has been shifting from the US to China. Soon the US will need China more than China needs the US. In 2015, the US exported $115 billion to China while China exported $482 billion to the US. It's still a huge gap but it has been narrowing over time. China is buying more American goods and companies and real estate than ever before while the US investment in China is slowing. (e.g. Chinese companies and individuals invested $110B-plus in American properties from 2010-2015). Frankly put, trade tariffs with the US wouldn't really scare the Chinese because exports to America are not as important it used to be. China is a lot richer and more powerful now. It's not that they like trade tariffs but they would prefer not to have a president Clinton. Also many people here figure Trump is a business man at the end of the day, he's all talk about trade tariffs etc but will fold in the end to make a deal. The best cards are in China's hands, too.

I mostly mention the reaction of the Chinese leadership and elite & educated classes before they would be most informed about the US election. The less well educated or less well off would also hear about Trump winning the election but to them it would be so far removed from their everyday life they would not give it much thought, much the same way that Jane Doe in Peoria might hear about Brexit in the news but not see or notice any difference to her everyday life.


Sorry--- this is probably more than you wanted to read!!

NONE of this explains why any Chinese person would be happy with 35% tariffs Marie. Sorry.. but true, Trump is a zero friend of China.

 

[mochiko42]

I wish I could be like others and put a happy and optimistic face on this, but I cannot. We have done away with our checks and balances; current senate will not even let Obama fill the supreme court seat.. Maybe listening to Hamilton too much, but Trump is similar to Aaron Burr; power at any cost. And it will cost all of us.

I am waiting to see the mass deportations.
I am waiting to see the Mexican Wall go up, paid by the Mexicans.
I am waiting to see Muslim ban go into effect.
I am waiting to see the US pull funding and support out of NATO and UN.
I am waiting to see the US renegade on Trade Agreements.

The above is what the new President of the USA said he will do whilst campaigning.

My husband was working at the office of a major Chinese state newspaper yesterday and he reported that his mainland Chinese colleagues were openly ecstatic that Trump won. Somewhere in Beijing Zhongnanhai (the Chinese government equivalent of the white house), Xi Jinping must be throwing a celebration party.

Wow! why do you think they were elated? Because Trump is going to slap tariffs on Chinese goods... I'm surprised because I have not read anywhere that this will be good for the Chinese.

I am not a professional China / US analyst but these are my casual observations:

1. Politics -
All high school and college students in China have to take mandatory classes extolling the virtue of Marxist philosophy and 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' (e.g. Stalin, Marxist, Maoist philosophy, Deng Xiaoping thought & principles [Deng was the one who ordered the Tiananmen square massacre in '89], and so on and so forth). It is indoctrinated in the educated and elite class that Chinese one-party rule (socialism/ communism etc) is the best way of ruling. Most of the elite and rich class are members of the Chinese Communist Party and have ties to the government and/or the military. In universities in China, being a member of the Chinese communist youth league is seen as the way to get ahead and grow your networks and influence. This means that a large segment of the educated, rich and powerful in China are conditioned and are invested in the system of one-party/non-elected/non-democratic and view strongmen as better leaders. They're taught to gravitate to strongmen like Trump, and the resulting chaos and division of the US election will seem as validation of the Chinese style of doing things and the failure/weakness of the democractic model (especially of liberal politics).

2. Culture/sexism -
China is still relatively traditional and conservative. An aggressive macho guy like Trump would seem 'stronger' than Clinton. This also meshes with the preference for strongmen politicians. While chairman Mao did indeed promote women in the workplace and he said that women 'hold up half the sky', in reality relatively few women make it to the top echelon of the Chinese Communist party, state-owned enterprise or even private companies. There are a few exceptions but it's still a very traditional conservative male-skewed society (not least in the fact that people still prefer to have male babies instead of female babies). Also Hilary is known as an experienced and savvy politician, who was very familiar with international politics. China did not like her for these reasons. Trump on the other hand is seen as easily impressed and not interested in details. Some jokes have circulated that the Chinese could just dazzle Trump with baijiu (liquor) and hookers and lavish banquets, and then he would be willing to sign anything and be Xi Jinping's new best golfing buddy. Trump is seen as a businessman who has little regard for niceties and soft topics like human rights so he would be some one that the Chinese leadership could easily work with and negotiate/manipulate.

3. Human rights and other 'soft' topics, US as a leader in the international community, the end of US global hegemony-
Hillary was known to be more outward-looking and internationally-minded in terms of politics and diplomacy. She was expected to be tougher on China on things that concern Democrats and liberals, such as Tibet, human rights, labor standards, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the current multi-national political crisis in the south China Sea, etc. Trump has hardly mentioned these topics at all and does not have a track record of displaying interest in pushing China on what the Chinese leaders and elite class regard as China's internal affairs. The Chinese are extremely sensitive on what they see as America's encroachment / involvement in its back yard (Asia Pacific) and on America sticking its nose in Chinese domestic issues. They expect Trump to be less interested in international diplomatic affairs since he wants to pull the US out of the UN, TPP, etc. This is great news for many in China, from the Chinese government and ruling class to the Chinese fishermen who are illegally entering Philippine and Vietnamese waters to catch fish. Trump's disinterest in America continuing its role as a major player in international diplomacy and global politics may translate to budget cuts for many US aid and development initiatives overseas, from USAID to Fulbright to plain old military presence in places like Japan or Korea or Africa. This means that developing and vulnerable countries will pivot to China as a benefactor and partner instead of the US. China has spent years building roads, hospitals, schools, mines, and entire towns everywhere from Angola to Vietnam. Chinese money is everywhere in the African continent and Southeast Asia, together with hundreds of thousands of Chinese construction workers. If President Trump causes the US to withdraw or reduce its role as a global superpower on the world stage, China is ready and willing to fill the gap. Vulnerable countries like Vietnam and Philippines who currently have real and immediate conflicts with China will no longer be able to rely on the support of the US (eg for years China has been illegally building military bases and artificial islands in the south China sea in what is considered to be international waters, also claimed by Vietnam and Philippines. Also China has built many hydro electric dams in the Mekong river basic upstream, reducing water supply to populations and farmers downstream in Laos and Cambodia.)

4. Economics and Trade-
China is no longer the emerging economy of 10 or 20 years ago. There are over 1 billion people in China. That's 1 billion consumers. According to McKinsey, in 2013, 256 million of them were classified as middle class. Whereas the population of the US is 318 million. Exports to the US from China have been on a downward trend for several years now and the trade surplus has been shrinking as China is now buying more and more goods and services from the US. This means that the balance of power has been shifting from the US to China. Soon the US will need China more than China needs the US. In 2015, the US exported $115 billion to China while China exported $482 billion to the US. It's still a huge gap but it has been narrowing over time. China is buying more American goods and companies and real estate than ever before while the US investment in China is slowing. (e.g. Chinese companies and individuals invested $110B-plus in American properties from 2010-2015). Frankly put, trade tariffs with the US wouldn't really scare the Chinese because exports to America are not as important it used to be. China is a lot richer and more powerful now. It's not that they like trade tariffs but they would prefer not to have a president Clinton. Also many people here figure Trump is a business man at the end of the day, he's all talk about trade tariffs etc but will fold in the end to make a deal. The best cards are in China's hands, too.

I mostly mention the reaction of the Chinese leadership and elite & educated classes before they would be most informed about the US election. The less well educated or less well off would also hear about Trump winning the election but to them it would be so far removed from their everyday life they would not give it much thought, much the same way that Jane Doe in Peoria might hear about Brexit in the news but not see or notice any difference to her everyday life.


Sorry--- this is probably more than you wanted to read!!

NONE of this explains why any Chinese person would be happy with 35% tariffs Marie. Sorry.. but true, Trump is a zero friend of China.

They figure Trump will make a deal and he will not dare to slap on 35% tariff. There would be a backlash from Walmart and all the other American companies who have factories in China, in any case. And having a US president who doesn't care about Tibet or human rights or doesn't meddle in China's own affairs is seen by many here as a reasonable trade off for any tariffs that do get passed. People everywhere, no matter whether it's China or the US, are not always rational, and don't always vote or believe things that are in their own self interest. There isn't always a logical or rational explanation... If they were then you wouldn't have seen so many Latinos voting for Trump or people in the UK excited about Brexit when they would be the ones to suffer most. For many Chinese, it's not just about the money, it's about China's role and emergence as a major world superpower and the perceived decline of what they see as the American hegemonic world dominance .

 

[arkieb1]

An Australian Church posted this the day after your elections. Here even some of our most conservative members of society get it;

 

[LLJsmom]

I wish I could be like others and put a happy and optimistic face on this, but I cannot. We have done away with our checks and balances; current senate will not even let Obama fill the supreme court seat.. Maybe listening to Hamilton too much, but Trump is similar to Aaron Burr; power at any cost. And it will cost all of us.

I am waiting to see the mass deportations.
I am waiting to see the Mexican Wall go up, paid by the Mexicans.
I am waiting to see Muslim ban go into effect.
I am waiting to see the US pull funding and support out of NATO and UN.
I am waiting to see the US renegade on Trade Agreements.

The above is what the new President of the USA said he will do whilst campaigning.

My husband was working at the office of a major Chinese state newspaper yesterday and he reported that his mainland Chinese colleagues were openly ecstatic that Trump won. Somewhere in Beijing Zhongnanhai (the Chinese government equivalent of the white house), Xi Jinping must be throwing a celebration party.

Wow! why do you think they were elated? Because Trump is going to slap tariffs on Chinese goods... I'm surprised because I have not read anywhere that this will be good for the Chinese.

I am not a professional China / US analyst but these are my casual observations:

1. Politics -
All high school and college students in China have to take mandatory classes extolling the virtue of Marxist philosophy and 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' (e.g. Stalin, Marxist, Maoist philosophy, Deng Xiaoping thought & principles [Deng was the one who ordered the Tiananmen square massacre in '89], and so on and so forth). It is indoctrinated in the educated and elite class that Chinese one-party rule (socialism/ communism etc) is the best way of ruling. Most of the elite and rich class are members of the Chinese Communist Party and have ties to the government and/or the military. In universities in China, being a member of the Chinese communist youth league is seen as the way to get ahead and grow your networks and influence. This means that a large segment of the educated, rich and powerful in China are conditioned and are invested in the system of one-party/non-elected/non-democratic and view strongmen as better leaders. They're taught to gravitate to strongmen like Trump, and the resulting chaos and division of the US election will seem as validation of the Chinese style of doing things and the failure/weakness of the democractic model (especially of liberal politics).

2. Culture/sexism -
China is still relatively traditional and conservative. An aggressive macho guy like Trump would seem 'stronger' than Clinton. This also meshes with the preference for strongmen politicians. While chairman Mao did indeed promote women in the workplace and he said that women 'hold up half the sky', in reality relatively few women make it to the top echelon of the Chinese Communist party, state-owned enterprise or even private companies. There are a few exceptions but it's still a very traditional conservative male-skewed society (not least in the fact that people still prefer to have male babies instead of female babies). Also Hilary is known as an experienced and savvy politician, who was very familiar with international politics. China did not like her for these reasons. Trump on the other hand is seen as easily impressed and not interested in details. Some jokes have circulated that the Chinese could just dazzle Trump with baijiu (liquor) and hookers and lavish banquets, and then he would be willing to sign anything and be Xi Jinping's new best golfing buddy. Trump is seen as a businessman who has little regard for niceties and soft topics like human rights so he would be some one that the Chinese leadership could easily work with and negotiate/manipulate.

3. Human rights and other 'soft' topics, US as a leader in the international community, the end of US global hegemony-
Hillary was known to be more outward-looking and internationally-minded in terms of politics and diplomacy. She was expected to be tougher on China on things that concern Democrats and liberals, such as Tibet, human rights, labor standards, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the current multi-national political crisis in the south China Sea, etc. Trump has hardly mentioned these topics at all and does not have a track record of displaying interest in pushing China on what the Chinese leaders and elite class regard as China's internal affairs. The Chinese are extremely sensitive on what they see as America's encroachment / involvement in its back yard (Asia Pacific) and on America sticking its nose in Chinese domestic issues. They expect Trump to be less interested in international diplomatic affairs since he wants to pull the US out of the UN, TPP, etc. This is great news for many in China, from the Chinese government and ruling class to the Chinese fishermen who are illegally entering Philippine and Vietnamese waters to catch fish. Trump's disinterest in America continuing its role as a major player in international diplomacy and global politics may translate to budget cuts for many US aid and development initiatives overseas, from USAID to Fulbright to plain old military presence in places like Japan or Korea or Africa. This means that developing and vulnerable countries will pivot to China as a benefactor and partner instead of the US. China has spent years building roads, hospitals, schools, mines, and entire towns everywhere from Angola to Vietnam. Chinese money is everywhere in the African continent and Southeast Asia, together with hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers working on Chinese construction projects (it's estimated there are 1 million Chinese migrants in Africa ). If President Trump causes the US to withdraw or reduce its role as a global superpower on the world stage, China is ready and willing to fill the gap. Vulnerable countries like Vietnam and Philippines who currently have real and immediate conflicts with China will no longer be able to rely on the support of the US (eg for years China has been illegally building military bases and artificial islands in the south China sea in what is considered to be international waters, also claimed by Vietnam and Philippines. Also China has built many hydro electric dams in the Mekong river basin upstream, reducing water supply to populations and farmers downstream in Laos and Cambodia.)

4. Economics and Trade-
China is no longer the emerging economy of 10 or 20 years ago. There are over 1 billion people in China. That's 1 billion consumers. According to McKinsey, in 2013, 256 million of them were classified as middle class. Whereas the population of the US is 318 million. Exports to the US from China have been on a downward trend for several years now and the trade surplus has been shrinking as China is now buying more and more goods and services from the US. This means that the balance of power has been shifting from the US to China. Soon the US will need China more than China needs the US. In 2015, the US exported $115 billion to China while China exported $482 billion to the US. It's still a huge gap but it has been narrowing over time. China is buying more American goods and companies and real estate than ever before while the US investment in China is slowing. (e.g. Chinese companies and individuals invested $110B-plus in American properties from 2010-2015). Frankly put, trade tariffs with the US wouldn't really scare the Chinese because exports to America are not as important it used to be. China is a lot richer and more powerful now. It's not that they like trade tariffs but they would prefer not to have a president Clinton. Also many people here figure Trump is a business man at the end of the day, he's all talk about trade tariffs etc but will fold in the end to make a deal. The best cards are in China's hands, too.

I mostly mention the reaction of the Chinese leadership and elite & educated classes before they would be most informed about the US election. The less well educated or less well off would also hear about Trump winning the election but to them it would be so far removed from their everyday life they would not give it much thought, much the same way that Jane Doe in Peoria might hear about Brexit in the news but not see or notice any difference to her everyday life.


Sorry--- this is probably more than you wanted to read!!

Thank you mochiko42 for taking the time and energy to explain this. It seems reasonable to me. This would explain why China would prefer Trump. Tariffs? Well, I don't think that they just get slapped on because Trump wants it. Who knows what the political process will result in. I completely believe that the Chinese view Trump that way, as primarily a businessman who in the end will let the bottom line be the deciding factor. The shifting of the trade imbalance is not something I considered. (It's been a long time since I've been in a poli sci/econ class.) Not long before the US will be exporting more the China than they to the US, just based on pure population growth projections. And if the US threatens with tariffs, well, can't two play at that game, with the US being far more hurt than China with us importing more to them than they to us?

So thanks again mochiko for a very thoughtful, thought provoking and informative post. You explained it to my to my satisfaction.

 

[mochiko42]

I wish I could be like others and put a happy and optimistic face on this, but I cannot. We have done away with our checks and balances; current senate will not even let Obama fill the supreme court seat.. Maybe listening to Hamilton too much, but Trump is similar to Aaron Burr; power at any cost. And it will cost all of us.

I am waiting to see the mass deportations.
I am waiting to see the Mexican Wall go up, paid by the Mexicans.
I am waiting to see Muslim ban go into effect.
I am waiting to see the US pull funding and support out of NATO and UN.
I am waiting to see the US renegade on Trade Agreements.

The above is what the new President of the USA said he will do whilst campaigning.

My husband was working at the office of a major Chinese state newspaper yesterday and he reported that his mainland Chinese colleagues were openly ecstatic that Trump won. Somewhere in Beijing Zhongnanhai (the Chinese government equivalent of the white house), Xi Jinping must be throwing a celebration party.

Wow! why do you think they were elated? Because Trump is going to slap tariffs on Chinese goods... I'm surprised because I have not read anywhere that this will be good for the Chinese.

I am not a professional China / US analyst but these are my casual observations:

1. Politics -
All high school and college students in China have to take mandatory classes extolling the virtue of Marxist philosophy and 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' (e.g. Stalin, Marxist, Maoist philosophy, Deng Xiaoping thought & principles [Deng was the one who ordered the Tiananmen square massacre in '89], and so on and so forth). It is indoctrinated in the educated and elite class that Chinese one-party rule (socialism/ communism etc) is the best way of ruling. Most of the elite and rich class are members of the Chinese Communist Party and have ties to the government and/or the military. In universities in China, being a member of the Chinese communist youth league is seen as the way to get ahead and grow your networks and influence. This means that a large segment of the educated, rich and powerful in China are conditioned and are invested in the system of one-party/non-elected/non-democratic and view strongmen as better leaders. They're taught to gravitate to strongmen like Trump, and the resulting chaos and division of the US election will seem as validation of the Chinese style of doing things and the failure/weakness of the democractic model (especially of liberal politics).

2. Culture/sexism -
China is still relatively traditional and conservative. An aggressive macho guy like Trump would seem 'stronger' than Clinton. This also meshes with the preference for strongmen politicians. While chairman Mao did indeed promote women in the workplace and he said that women 'hold up half the sky', in reality relatively few women make it to the top echelon of the Chinese Communist party, state-owned enterprise or even private companies. There are a few exceptions but it's still a very traditional conservative male-skewed society (not least in the fact that people still prefer to have male babies instead of female babies). Also Hilary is known as an experienced and savvy politician, who was very familiar with international politics. China did not like her for these reasons. Trump on the other hand is seen as easily impressed and not interested in details. Some jokes have circulated that the Chinese could just dazzle Trump with baijiu (liquor) and hookers and lavish banquets, and then he would be willing to sign anything and be Xi Jinping's new best golfing buddy. Trump is seen as a businessman who has little regard for niceties and soft topics like human rights so he would be some one that the Chinese leadership could easily work with and negotiate/manipulate.

3. Human rights and other 'soft' topics, US as a leader in the international community, the end of US global hegemony-
Hillary was known to be more outward-looking and internationally-minded in terms of politics and diplomacy. She was expected to be tougher on China on things that concern Democrats and liberals, such as Tibet, human rights, labor standards, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the current multi-national political crisis in the south China Sea, etc. Trump has hardly mentioned these topics at all and does not have a track record of displaying interest in pushing China on what the Chinese leaders and elite class regard as China's internal affairs. The Chinese are extremely sensitive on what they see as America's encroachment / involvement in its back yard (Asia Pacific) and on America sticking its nose in Chinese domestic issues. They expect Trump to be less interested in international diplomatic affairs since he wants to pull the US out of the UN, TPP, etc. This is great news for many in China, from the Chinese government and ruling class to the Chinese fishermen who are illegally entering Philippine and Vietnamese waters to catch fish. Trump's disinterest in America continuing its role as a major player in international diplomacy and global politics may translate to budget cuts for many US aid and development initiatives overseas, from USAID to Fulbright to plain old military presence in places like Japan or Korea or Africa. This means that developing and vulnerable countries will pivot to China as a benefactor and partner instead of the US. China has spent years building roads, hospitals, schools, mines, and entire towns everywhere from Angola to Vietnam. Chinese money is everywhere in the African continent and Southeast Asia, together with hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers working on Chinese construction projects (it's estimated there are 1 million Chinese migrants in Africa ). If President Trump causes the US to withdraw or reduce its role as a global superpower on the world stage, China is ready and willing to fill the gap. Vulnerable countries like Vietnam and Philippines who currently have real and immediate conflicts with China will no longer be able to rely on the support of the US (eg for years China has been illegally building military bases and artificial islands in the south China sea in what is considered to be international waters, also claimed by Vietnam and Philippines. Also China has built many hydro electric dams in the Mekong river basin upstream, reducing water supply to populations and farmers downstream in Laos and Cambodia.)

4. Economics and Trade-
China is no longer the emerging economy of 10 or 20 years ago. There are over 1 billion people in China. That's 1 billion consumers. According to McKinsey, in 2013, 256 million of them were classified as middle class. Whereas the population of the US is 318 million. Exports to the US from China have been on a downward trend for several years now and the trade surplus has been shrinking as China is now buying more and more goods and services from the US. This means that the balance of power has been shifting from the US to China. Soon the US will need China more than China needs the US. In 2015, the US exported $115 billion to China while China exported $482 billion to the US. It's still a huge gap but it has been narrowing over time. China is buying more American goods and companies and real estate than ever before while the US investment in China is slowing. (e.g. Chinese companies and individuals invested $110B-plus in American properties from 2010-2015). Frankly put, trade tariffs with the US wouldn't really scare the Chinese because exports to America are not as important it used to be. China is a lot richer and more powerful now. It's not that they like trade tariffs but they would prefer not to have a president Clinton. Also many people here figure Trump is a business man at the end of the day, he's all talk about trade tariffs etc but will fold in the end to make a deal. The best cards are in China's hands, too.

I mostly mention the reaction of the Chinese leadership and elite & educated classes before they would be most informed about the US election. The less well educated or less well off would also hear about Trump winning the election but to them it would be so far removed from their everyday life they would not give it much thought, much the same way that Jane Doe in Peoria might hear about Brexit in the news but not see or notice any difference to her everyday life.


Sorry--- this is probably more than you wanted to read!!

Thank you mochiko42 for taking the time and energy to explain this. It seems reasonable to me. This would explain why China would prefer Trump. Tariffs? Well, I don't think that they just get slapped on because Trump wants it. Who knows what the political process will result in. I completely believe that the Chinese view Trump that way, as primarily a businessman who in the end will let the bottom line be the deciding factor. The shifting of the trade imbalance is not something I considered. (It's been a long time since I've been in a poli sci/econ class.) Not long before the US will be exporting more the China than they to the US, just based on pure population growth projections. And if the US threatens with tariffs, well, can't two play at that game, with the US being far more hurt than China?

So thanks again mochiko for a very thoughtful, thought provoking and informative post. You explained it to my to my satisfaction.

Thanks LLJsmom. I am glad it was interesting reading for you. McKinsey predicts that China's middle class will have 350 million consumers by 2022. That means Chinese companies will have a group of potential customers w/spending power that's larger than the entire population of the US within 6 years time. How vital to China will the US market be then? I don't know.

Yes, Chinese businesses are very familiar with the Trump style of bluster and extreme talking, it happens everyday in business deals here. Everyone expects it to be a bluff and that the end result would be very different after haggling and negotiation.

I guess we will have to wait and find out since some of the information coming out of the Trump camp is contradictory about US involvement overseas. He said he wanted to reduce US role in the United Nations etc but I have just read this: https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/07/donald-trumps-peace-through-strength-vision-for-the-asia-pacific/?utm_content=buffer0fe7a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

So we shall see..

 

[LLJsmom]

I wish I could be like others and put a happy and optimistic face on this, but I cannot. We have done away with our checks and balances; current senate will not even let Obama fill the supreme court seat.. Maybe listening to Hamilton too much, but Trump is similar to Aaron Burr; power at any cost. And it will cost all of us.

I am waiting to see the mass deportations.
I am waiting to see the Mexican Wall go up, paid by the Mexicans.
I am waiting to see Muslim ban go into effect.
I am waiting to see the US pull funding and support out of NATO and UN.
I am waiting to see the US renegade on Trade Agreements.

The above is what the new President of the USA said he will do whilst campaigning.

My husband was working at the office of a major Chinese state newspaper yesterday and he reported that his mainland Chinese colleagues were openly ecstatic that Trump won. Somewhere in Beijing Zhongnanhai (the Chinese government equivalent of the white house), Xi Jinping must be throwing a celebration party.

Wow! why do you think they were elated? Because Trump is going to slap tariffs on Chinese goods... I'm surprised because I have not read anywhere that this will be good for the Chinese.

I am not a professional China / US analyst but these are my casual observations:

1. Politics -
All high school and college students in China have to take mandatory classes extolling the virtue of Marxist philosophy and 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' (e.g. Stalin, Marxist, Maoist philosophy, Deng Xiaoping thought & principles [Deng was the one who ordered the Tiananmen square massacre in '89], and so on and so forth). It is indoctrinated in the educated and elite class that Chinese one-party rule (socialism/ communism etc) is the best way of ruling. Most of the elite and rich class are members of the Chinese Communist Party and have ties to the government and/or the military. In universities in China, being a member of the Chinese communist youth league is seen as the way to get ahead and grow your networks and influence. This means that a large segment of the educated, rich and powerful in China are conditioned and are invested in the system of one-party/non-elected/non-democratic and view strongmen as better leaders. They're taught to gravitate to strongmen like Trump, and the resulting chaos and division of the US election will seem as validation of the Chinese style of doing things and the failure/weakness of the democractic model (especially of liberal politics).

2. Culture/sexism -
China is still relatively traditional and conservative. An aggressive macho guy like Trump would seem 'stronger' than Clinton. This also meshes with the preference for strongmen politicians. While chairman Mao did indeed promote women in the workplace and he said that women 'hold up half the sky', in reality relatively few women make it to the top echelon of the Chinese Communist party, state-owned enterprise or even private companies. There are a few exceptions but it's still a very traditional conservative male-skewed society (not least in the fact that people still prefer to have male babies instead of female babies). Also Hilary is known as an experienced and savvy politician, who was very familiar with international politics. China did not like her for these reasons. Trump on the other hand is seen as easily impressed and not interested in details. Some jokes have circulated that the Chinese could just dazzle Trump with baijiu (liquor) and hookers and lavish banquets, and then he would be willing to sign anything and be Xi Jinping's new best golfing buddy. Trump is seen as a businessman who has little regard for niceties and soft topics like human rights so he would be some one that the Chinese leadership could easily work with and negotiate/manipulate.

3. Human rights and other 'soft' topics, US as a leader in the international community, the end of US global hegemony-
Hillary was known to be more outward-looking and internationally-minded in terms of politics and diplomacy. She was expected to be tougher on China on things that concern Democrats and liberals, such as Tibet, human rights, labor standards, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the current multi-national political crisis in the south China Sea, etc. Trump has hardly mentioned these topics at all and does not have a track record of displaying interest in pushing China on what the Chinese leaders and elite class regard as China's internal affairs. The Chinese are extremely sensitive on what they see as America's encroachment / involvement in its back yard (Asia Pacific) and on America sticking its nose in Chinese domestic issues. They expect Trump to be less interested in international diplomatic affairs since he wants to pull the US out of the UN, TPP, etc. This is great news for many in China, from the Chinese government and ruling class to the Chinese fishermen who are illegally entering Philippine and Vietnamese waters to catch fish. Trump's disinterest in America continuing its role as a major player in international diplomacy and global politics may translate to budget cuts for many US aid and development initiatives overseas, from USAID to Fulbright to plain old military presence in places like Japan or Korea or Africa. This means that developing and vulnerable countries will pivot to China as a benefactor and partner instead of the US. China has spent years building roads, hospitals, schools, mines, and entire towns everywhere from Angola to Vietnam. Chinese money is everywhere in the African continent and Southeast Asia, together with hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers working on Chinese construction projects (it's estimated there are 1 million Chinese migrants in Africa ). If President Trump causes the US to withdraw or reduce its role as a global superpower on the world stage, China is ready and willing to fill the gap. Vulnerable countries like Vietnam and Philippines who currently have real and immediate conflicts with China will no longer be able to rely on the support of the US (eg for years China has been illegally building military bases and artificial islands in the south China sea in what is considered to be international waters, also claimed by Vietnam and Philippines. Also China has built many hydro electric dams in the Mekong river basin upstream, reducing water supply to populations and farmers downstream in Laos and Cambodia.)

4. Economics and Trade-
China is no longer the emerging economy of 10 or 20 years ago. There are over 1 billion people in China. That's 1 billion consumers. According to McKinsey, in 2013, 256 million of them were classified as middle class. Whereas the population of the US is 318 million. Exports to the US from China have been on a downward trend for several years now and the trade surplus has been shrinking as China is now buying more and more goods and services from the US. This means that the balance of power has been shifting from the US to China. Soon the US will need China more than China needs the US. In 2015, the US exported $115 billion to China while China exported $482 billion to the US. It's still a huge gap but it has been narrowing over time. China is buying more American goods and companies and real estate than ever before while the US investment in China is slowing. (e.g. Chinese companies and individuals invested $110B-plus in American properties from 2010-2015). Frankly put, trade tariffs with the US wouldn't really scare the Chinese because exports to America are not as important it used to be. China is a lot richer and more powerful now. It's not that they like trade tariffs but they would prefer not to have a president Clinton. Also many people here figure Trump is a business man at the end of the day, he's all talk about trade tariffs etc but will fold in the end to make a deal. The best cards are in China's hands, too.

I mostly mention the reaction of the Chinese leadership and elite & educated classes before they would be most informed about the US election. The less well educated or less well off would also hear about Trump winning the election but to them it would be so far removed from their everyday life they would not give it much thought, much the same way that Jane Doe in Peoria might hear about Brexit in the news but not see or notice any difference to her everyday life.


Sorry--- this is probably more than you wanted to read!!

Thank you mochiko42 for taking the time and energy to explain this. It seems reasonable to me. This would explain why China would prefer Trump. Tariffs? Well, I don't think that they just get slapped on because Trump wants it. Who knows what the political process will result in. I completely believe that the Chinese view Trump that way, as primarily a businessman who in the end will let the bottom line be the deciding factor. The shifting of the trade imbalance is not something I considered. (It's been a long time since I've been in a poli sci/econ class.) Not long before the US will be exporting more the China than they to the US, just based on pure population growth projections. And if the US threatens with tariffs, well, can't two play at that game, with the US being far more hurt than China?

So thanks again mochiko for a very thoughtful, thought provoking and informative post. You explained it to my to my satisfaction.

Thanks LLJsmom. I am glad it was interesting reading for you. McKinsey predicts that China's middle class will have 350 million consumers by 2022. That means Chinese companies will have a group of potential customers w/spending power that's larger than the entire population of the US within 6 years time. How vital to China will the US market be then? I don't know.

Yes, Chinese businesses are very familiar with the Trump style of bluster and extreme talking, it happens everyday in business deals here. Everyone expects it to be a bluff and that the end result would be very different after haggling and negotiation.

I guess we will have to wait and find out since some of the information coming out of the Trump camp is contradictory about US involvement overseas. He said he wanted to reduce US role in the United Nations etc but I have just read this: https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/07/donald-trumps-peace-through-strength-vision-for-the-asia-pacific/?utm_content=buffer0fe7a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

So we shall see..

Mochiko, that is so true! And wow, I did not know the time frame for the growth of the Chinese consumer base is so short. Yes, given how they may perceive him as a businessman, I definitely can see why they would not be concerned about the rhetoric. It's quite cynical, but please correct me if I am wrong, but my interaction with Chinese has shown me that cynicism and pragmatism is very prevalent when thinking about money/business/trade. Their opinion about Donald would fit right in line with that. I think that they are right. We shall see indeed.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The Dems. still refuses to face the true facts why HC lost the election...

HC did a horrible job as SoS, so all she can do is to demonize Trump hoping americans will vote for her.

 

[Shiny_pretty_things]

Foreigner here and rare poster but thats a silly statement and irritated me enough I'm posting - which I will probably regret shortly.

Perhaps as an American you don't see it but to the rest of the world, your president elect did all the damage himself. He made racist, xenophobic statements and is clearly a sexual predator. POC were attacked at his rallies and the world watched open mouthed and horrified that he didn't step in say thats unacceptable, Americans don't behave that way.

He was caught on tape enthusiastically admitting to forcing himself on women regardless of whether they were willing or not and we sat stunned, that many of you seemed okay with that and dismissed it as 'locker room talk'. Is this really how men talk about wives, daughters and mothers in your locker rooms? Thats terrifying.

This nothing to do with HRC (and I'm a foreigner so you most certainly can't accuse me of being a democrat or republican or liberal (whatever that means), this has all to do with your president elect and his appalling behaviour. He treated your elections like a reality show and apparently many people were just fine with that.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Seriously? The utter nasty shit that has been spewed here just on PS toward conservatives and you wonder why people would not say anything? The other thread that shows 23 voters for Trump, I know maybe 2 or 3 that actually posted.

Red, You are one of the few rarities on PS...

 

[LLJsmom]

Foreigner here and rare poster but thats a silly statement and irritated me enough I'm posting - which I will probably regret shortly.

Perhaps as an American you don't see it but to the rest of the world, your president elect did all the damage himself. He made racist, xenophobic statements and is clearly a sexual predator. POC were attacked at his rallies and the world watched open mouthed and horrified that he didn't step in say thats unacceptable, Americans don't behave that way.

He was caught on tape enthusiastically admitting to forcing himself on women regardless of whether they were willing or not and we sat stunned, that many of you seemed okay with that and dismissed it as 'locker room talk'. Is this really how men talk about wives, daughters and mothers in your locker rooms? Thats terrifying.

This nothing to do with HRC (and I'm a foreigner so you most certainly can't accuse me of being a democrat or republican or liberal (whatever that means), this has all to do with your president elect and his appalling behaviour. He treated your elections like a reality show and apparently many people were just fine with that.

I can certainly see why you would look at it that way Shiny. I mostly do as well.

 

[Gypsy]

I wish I had written this.

I don’t think you understand us right now.
I think you think this is about politics.
I think you believe this is all just sour grapes; the crocodile tears of the losing locker room with the scoreboard going against us at the buzzer.
I can only tell you that you’re wrong. This is not about losing an election. This isn’t about not winning a contest. This is about two very different ways of seeing the world.
Hillary supporters believe in a diverse America; one where religion or skin color or sexual orientation or place of birth aren’t liabilities or deficiencies or moral defects. Her campaign was one of inclusion and connection and interdependency. It was about building bridges and breaking ceilings. It was about going high.
Trump supporters believe in a very selective America; one that is largely white and straight and Christian, and the voting verified this. Donald Trump has never made any assertions otherwise. He ran a campaign of fear and exclusion and isolation—and that’s the vision of the world those who voted for him have endorsed.
They have aligned with the wall-builder and the professed p*ssy-grabber, and they have co-signed his body of work, regardless of the reasons they give for their vote:
Every horrible thing Donald Trump ever said about women or Muslims or people of color has now been validated.
Every profanity-laced press conference and every call to bully protestors and every ignorant diatribe has been endorsed.
Every piece of anti-LGBTQ legislation Mike Pence has championed has been signed-off on.
Half of our country has declared these things acceptable, noble, American.
This is the disconnect and the source of our grief today. It isn’t a political defeat that we’re lamenting, it’s a defeat for Humanity.
We’re not angry that our candidate lost. We’re angry because our candidate’s losing means this country will be less safe, less kind, and less available to a huge segment of its population, and that’s just the truth.
Those who have always felt vulnerable are now left more so. Those whose voices have been silenced will be further quieted. Those who always felt marginalized will be pushed further to the periphery. Those who feared they were seen as inferior now have confirmation in actual percentages.
Those things have essentially been campaign promises of Donald Trump, and so many of our fellow citizens have said this is what they want too.
This has never been about politics.
This is not about one candidate over the other.
It’s not about one’s ideas over another’s.
It is not blue vs. red.
It’s not her emails vs. his bad language.
It’s not her dishonesty vs. his indecency.
It’s about overt racism and hostility toward minorities.
It’s about religion being weaponized.
It’s about crassness and vulgarity and disregard for women.
It’s about a barricaded, militarized, bully nation.
It’s about an unapologetic, open-faced ugliness.
And it is not only that these things have been ratified by our nation that grieve us; all this hatred, fear, racism, bigotry, and intolerance—it’s knowing that these things have been amen-ed by our neighbors, our families, our friends, those we work with and worship alongside. That is the most horrific thing of all. We now know how close this is.
It feels like living in enemy territory being here now, and there’s no way around that. We wake up today in a home we no longer recognize. We are grieving the loss of a place we used to love but no longer do. This may be America today but it is not the America we believe in or recognize or want.
This is not about a difference of political opinion, as that’s far too small to mourn over. It’s about a fundamental difference in how we view the worth of all people—not just those who look or talk or think or vote the way we do.
Grief always laments what might have been, the future we were robbed of, the tomorrow that we won’t get to see, and that is what we walk through today. As a nation we had an opportunity to affirm the beauty of our diversity this day, to choose ideas over sound bytes, to let everyone know they had a place at the table, to be the beacon of goodness and decency we imagine that we are—and we said no.
The Scriptures say that weeping endures for a night but joy comes in the morning. We can’t see that dawn coming any time soon.
And this is why we grieve.
- John Pavlovitz

Articulated what was in my heart. Thank you Author.

Me too.

 

[mochiko42]

Foreigner here and rare poster but thats a silly statement and irritated me enough I'm posting - which I will probably regret shortly.

Perhaps as an American you don't see it but to the rest of the world, your president elect did all the damage himself. He made racist, xenophobic statements and is clearly a sexual predator. POC were attacked at his rallies and the world watched open mouthed and horrified that he didn't step in say thats unacceptable, Americans don't behave that way.

He was caught on tape enthusiastically admitting to forcing himself on women regardless of whether they were willing or not and we sat stunned, that many of you seemed okay with that and dismissed it as 'locker room talk'. Is this really how men talk about wives, daughters and mothers in your locker rooms? Thats terrifying.

This nothing to do with HRC (and I'm a foreigner so you most certainly can't accuse me of being a democrat or republican or liberal (whatever that means), this has all to do with your president elect and his appalling behaviour. He treated your elections like a reality show and apparently many people were just fine with that.

I agree with most of what you said. Trump is appalling, he made a mockery of the democratic process by treating it as his own publicity machine and reality show. HRC was not an appealing candidate either, but by no means as much a trainwreck as Trump. Trump is clearly in it for the fame and power rather a genuine desire to help others or out of patriotism. I doubt he actually cares or thinks much about the average American worker who voted him into power. Friends who used to work in New York said that people in business and finance circles were wary of working with Trump because he was notorious for not making payments on time and frequently reneging on deals.

But for those who are happy about Trump's win and who demonized HRC.. don't they realize that it's not truly a win for the US? The Clintons and Trump are both part of the 1%, elite New York ruling class; they were friends longer than they have been opponents, and Trump was originally a Democrat. The election was a lose-lose situation and Trump as president is not going to be the panacea to all of America's ills when he is part of the problem in the first place.

 

[distracts]

For the ten thousandth time. MANUFACTURING JOBS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GOOD WAGES. There is nothing inherent about a manufacturing job that makes it one you can earn a living wage on. THE UNIONS DID THAT. for eff's sake people.

And manufacturing jobs are never coming back, at least not to small towns. Their loss had less to do with free trade and a lot more to do with changes in the manufacturing process such as automation. Most new manufacturing plants are going in near big cities because they need engineers to work in them, most engineers aren't going to move to small towns, and they can find the other labor they need anywhere (and those jobs no longer provide the kind of living wage you think they do, thanks to unions being gutted). All getting rid of free trade will do is make things a lot more expensive for the people living in bug**** nowhere.

So anyone who voted for Trump on the basis of hopes for the economy - ok. Good job. We'll see how that works out for you.

 

[LLJsmom]

For the ten thousandth time. MANUFACTURING JOBS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GOOD WAGES. There is nothing inherent about a manufacturing job that makes it one you can earn a living wage on. THE UNIONS DID THAT. for eff's sake people.

And manufacturing jobs are never coming back, at least not to small towns. Their loss had less to do with free trade and a lot more to do with changes in the manufacturing process such as automation. Most new manufacturing plants are going in near big cities because they need engineers to work in them, most engineers aren't going to move to small towns, and they can find the other labor they need anywhere (and those jobs no longer provide the kind of living wage you think they do, thanks to unions being gutted). All getting rid of free trade will do is make things a lot more expensive for the people living in bug**** nowhere.

So anyone who voted for Trump on the basis of hopes for the economy - ok. Good job. We'll see how that works out for you.

I was wondering how we turn back the clock on the migration of manufacturing from small towns too. US companies cannot compete with the low labor costs of other countries. That is just a fact. I wish it were so simple as to just slap tariffs and give tax incentives for companies to build here. Maybe he has figured it out. I can't. And so true about the wages from manufacturing jobs. What if you artificially inflate the market value of a manufacturing job. The goods will cost that much more, and will the public be willing to buy something that much more expensive than cheaper goods produced outside of the US? How do you prevent lower cost substitutes from being available to the consumer in the market? Trump is all about competition. I don't understand how that can be reconciled. I truly hope he has a viable plan, and good advisors. So you want to spend money on infrastructure? Where will that come from? Raising taxes? With a republican congress, will that happen? And My understanding is that he wants to cut taxes. Go into a spending deficit? I thought the Republicans were against that too? Like he said, it's not a success unless they make it happen (or something to that effect). He will need some very good advisors.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I was wondering how we turn back the clock on the migration of manufacturing from small towns too. US companies cannot compete with the low labor costs of other countries. That is just a fact. I wish it were so simple as to just slap tariffs and give tax incentives for companies to build here. Maybe he has figured it out. I can't. And so true about the wages from manufacturing jobs. What if you artificially inflate the market value of a manufacturing job. The goods will cost that much more, and will the public be willing to buy something that much more expensive than cheaper goods produced outside of the US? How do you prevent lower cost substitutes from being available to the consumer in the market? Trump is all about competition. I don't understand how that can be reconciled. I truly hope he has a viable plan, and good advisors. So you want to spend money on infrastructure? Where will that come from? Raising taxes? With a republican congress, will that happen? And My understanding is that he wants to cut taxes. Go into a spending deficit? I thought the Republicans were against that too? Like he said, it's not a success unless they make it happen (or something to that effect). He will need some very good advisors.

I have always willing to pay a higher price for american made products b/c american made products will last 3X longer than the craps made in China...i.e The american made water pump running my koi pond is 9 yrs old (running 7/24 365 days) and still going strong. Those shitty pumps made in China will not last more than 2.5 yrs.

 

[distracts]

For the ten thousandth time. MANUFACTURING JOBS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GOOD WAGES. There is nothing inherent about a manufacturing job that makes it one you can earn a living wage on. THE UNIONS DID THAT. for eff's sake people.

And manufacturing jobs are never coming back, at least not to small towns. Their loss had less to do with free trade and a lot more to do with changes in the manufacturing process such as automation. Most new manufacturing plants are going in near big cities because they need engineers to work in them, most engineers aren't going to move to small towns, and they can find the other labor they need anywhere (and those jobs no longer provide the kind of living wage you think they do, thanks to unions being gutted). All getting rid of free trade will do is make things a lot more expensive for the people living in bug**** nowhere.

So anyone who voted for Trump on the basis of hopes for the economy - ok. Good job. We'll see how that works out for you.

I was wondering how we turn back the clock on the migration of manufacturing from small towns too. US companies cannot compete with the low labor costs of other countries. That is just a fact. I wish it were so simple as to just slap tariffs and give tax incentives for companies to build here. Maybe he has figured it out. I can't. And so true about the wages from manufacturing jobs. What if you artificially inflate the market value of a manufacturing job. The goods will cost that much more, and will the public be willing to buy something that much more expensive than cheaper goods produced outside of the US? How do you prevent lower cost substitutes from being available to the consumer in the market? Trump is all about competition. I don't understand how that can be reconciled. I truly hope he has a viable plan, and good advisors. So you want to spend money on infrastructure? Where will that come from? Raising taxes? With a republican congress, will that happen? And My understanding is that he wants to cut taxes. Go into a spending deficit? I thought the Republicans were against that too? Like he said, it's not a success unless they make it happen (or something to that effect). He will need some very good advisors.

Well, you can't turn back the clock on the migration of manufacturing from small towns, unless you ban automation and most of the technological advances of the past 20 years. Which is... not going to happen. And even with that, we'd probably have to completely rework everything around the fast/disposable economy which... is also probably not going to happen, no matter how much all of us on this forum (a forum based around durable goods and paying more for quality) may wish it to. Companies profit too much from planned obsolescence.

The current economy and the coming economy are going to revolve increasingly around service jobs, and instead of pining for a past that can never be again, everyone needs to buckle down and work together to figure out how to make the jobs that Americans actually have pay living wages. Redwood mentioned in one of her posts that when the manufacturing jobs left the only jobs remaining were shitty-paying nursing-home jobs. That's true. That's true in many places - but WHY are those jobs shitty-paying? How do we make them not be? Is it not just as noble and just as necessary to care for our elderly as it is to build a car or work in steel? As the population ages, there will be MORE jobs like that, not fewer, because they cannot be replaced with robots like so many manufacturing jobs can be. That means more Americans will depend on them for their source of income. That means that unless we fix THOSE jobs, more people will be in economic distress.

The world has already changed, and no one can change it back. Evolve or die.

 

[Tekate]

I wish I could be like others and put a happy and optimistic face on this, but I cannot. We have done away with our checks and balances; current senate will not even let Obama fill the supreme court seat.. Maybe listening to Hamilton too much, but Trump is similar to Aaron Burr; power at any cost. And it will cost all of us.

I am waiting to see the mass deportations.
I am waiting to see the Mexican Wall go up, paid by the Mexicans.
I am waiting to see Muslim ban go into effect.
I am waiting to see the US pull funding and support out of NATO and UN.
I am waiting to see the US renegade on Trade Agreements.

The above is what the new President of the USA said he will do whilst campaigning.

My husband was working at the office of a major Chinese state newspaper yesterday and he reported that his mainland Chinese colleagues were openly ecstatic that Trump won. Somewhere in Beijing Zhongnanhai (the Chinese government equivalent of the white house), Xi Jinping must be throwing a celebration party.

Wow! why do you think they were elated? Because Trump is going to slap tariffs on Chinese goods... I'm surprised because I have not read anywhere that this will be good for the Chinese.

I am not a professional China / US analyst but these are my casual observations:

1. Politics -
All high school and college students in China have to take mandatory classes extolling the virtue of Marxist philosophy and 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' (e.g. Stalin, Marxist, Maoist philosophy, Deng Xiaoping thought & principles [Deng was the one who ordered the Tiananmen square massacre in '89], and so on and so forth). It is indoctrinated in the educated and elite class that Chinese one-party rule (socialism/ communism etc) is the best way of ruling. Most of the elite and rich class are members of the Chinese Communist Party and have ties to the government and/or the military. In universities in China, being a member of the Chinese communist youth league is seen as the way to get ahead and grow your networks and influence. This means that a large segment of the educated, rich and powerful in China are conditioned and are invested in the system of one-party/non-elected/non-democratic and view strongmen as better leaders. They're taught to gravitate to strongmen like Trump, and the resulting chaos and division of the US election will seem as validation of the Chinese style of doing things and the failure/weakness of the democractic model (especially of liberal politics).

2. Culture/sexism -
China is still relatively traditional and conservative. An aggressive macho guy like Trump would seem 'stronger' than Clinton. This also meshes with the preference for strongmen politicians. While chairman Mao did indeed promote women in the workplace and he said that women 'hold up half the sky', in reality relatively few women make it to the top echelon of the Chinese Communist party, state-owned enterprise or even private companies. There are a few exceptions but it's still a very traditional conservative male-skewed society (not least in the fact that people still prefer to have male babies instead of female babies). Also Hilary is known as an experienced and savvy politician, who was very familiar with international politics. China did not like her for these reasons. Trump on the other hand is seen as easily impressed and not interested in details. Some jokes have circulated that the Chinese could just dazzle Trump with baijiu (liquor) and hookers and lavish banquets, and then he would be willing to sign anything and be Xi Jinping's new best golfing buddy. Trump is seen as a businessman who has little regard for niceties and soft topics like human rights so he would be some one that the Chinese leadership could easily work with and negotiate/manipulate.

3. Human rights and other 'soft' topics, US as a leader in the international community, the end of US global hegemony-
Hillary was known to be more outward-looking and internationally-minded in terms of politics and diplomacy. She was expected to be tougher on China on things that concern Democrats and liberals, such as Tibet, human rights, labor standards, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the current multi-national political crisis in the south China Sea, etc. Trump has hardly mentioned these topics at all and does not have a track record of displaying interest in pushing China on what the Chinese leaders and elite class regard as China's internal affairs. The Chinese are extremely sensitive on what they see as America's encroachment / involvement in its back yard (Asia Pacific) and on America sticking its nose in Chinese domestic issues. They expect Trump to be less interested in international diplomatic affairs since he wants to pull the US out of the UN, TPP, etc. This is great news for many in China, from the Chinese government and ruling class to the Chinese fishermen who are illegally entering Philippine and Vietnamese waters to catch fish. Trump's disinterest in America continuing its role as a major player in international diplomacy and global politics may translate to budget cuts for many US aid and development initiatives overseas, from USAID to Fulbright to plain old military presence in places like Japan or Korea or Africa. This means that developing and vulnerable countries will pivot to China as a benefactor and partner instead of the US. China has spent years building roads, hospitals, schools, mines, and entire towns everywhere from Angola to Vietnam. Chinese money is everywhere in the African continent and Southeast Asia, together with hundreds of thousands of Chinese construction workers. If President Trump causes the US to withdraw or reduce its role as a global superpower on the world stage, China is ready and willing to fill the gap. Vulnerable countries like Vietnam and Philippines who currently have real and immediate conflicts with China will no longer be able to rely on the support of the US (eg for years China has been illegally building military bases and artificial islands in the south China sea in what is considered to be international waters, also claimed by Vietnam and Philippines. Also China has built many hydro electric dams in the Mekong river basic upstream, reducing water supply to populations and farmers downstream in Laos and Cambodia.)

4. Economics and Trade-
China is no longer the emerging economy of 10 or 20 years ago. There are over 1 billion people in China. That's 1 billion consumers. According to McKinsey, in 2013, 256 million of them were classified as middle class. Whereas the population of the US is 318 million. Exports to the US from China have been on a downward trend for several years now and the trade surplus has been shrinking as China is now buying more and more goods and services from the US. This means that the balance of power has been shifting from the US to China. Soon the US will need China more than China needs the US. In 2015, the US exported $115 billion to China while China exported $482 billion to the US. It's still a huge gap but it has been narrowing over time. China is buying more American goods and companies and real estate than ever before while the US investment in China is slowing. (e.g. Chinese companies and individuals invested $110B-plus in American properties from 2010-2015). Frankly put, trade tariffs with the US wouldn't really scare the Chinese because exports to America are not as important it used to be. China is a lot richer and more powerful now. It's not that they like trade tariffs but they would prefer not to have a president Clinton. Also many people here figure Trump is a business man at the end of the day, he's all talk about trade tariffs etc but will fold in the end to make a deal. The best cards are in China's hands, too.

I mostly mention the reaction of the Chinese leadership and elite & educated classes before they would be most informed about the US election. The less well educated or less well off would also hear about Trump winning the election but to them it would be so far removed from their everyday life they would not give it much thought, much the same way that Jane Doe in Peoria might hear about Brexit in the news but not see or notice any difference to her everyday life.


Sorry--- this is probably more than you wanted to read!!

NONE of this explains why any Chinese person would be happy with 35% tariffs Marie. Sorry.. but true, Trump is a zero friend of China.

They figure Trump will make a deal and he will not dare to slap on 35% tariff. There would be a backlash from Walmart and all the other American companies who have factories in China, in any case. And having a US president who doesn't care about Tibet or human rights or doesn't meddle in China's own affairs is seen by many here as a reasonable trade off for any tariffs that do get passed. People everywhere, no matter whether it's China or the US, are not always rational, and don't always vote or believe things that are in their own self interest. There isn't always a logical or rational explanation... If they were then you wouldn't have seen so many Latinos voting for Trump or people in the UK excited about Brexit when they would be the ones to suffer most. For many Chinese, it's not just about the money, it's about China's role and emergence as a major world superpower and the perceived decline of what they see as the American hegemonic world dominance .

Well, Trump has said he will slap a tariff on Chinese goods, do the Chinese really thing that Walmart has that much pull? Ha, they will be surprised. Trump has promised these things, Americans want him to DO these things, it seems the Chinese ruling class doesn't understand the USA... made in America means something to these people..they don't see America as Chinese do. Time will tell. The backlash against the chinese 'elite' could and probably will happen to some degree. But after seeing my 'fellow' Americans elect a scumbag I'm ready to join that ship Marie.. it's no long right or wrong, etiquette is gone, it's America first. Trump and his cronies will be happy to slap a tariff on Chinese imports. Be sure of that. Yes to the USA and being a world power.. and being dominant.. Americans don't care what is happening around them (until, sadly, it's knocking on their door).. Americans are changing, the last full gasp of the me first people have spoken.. So many Latinos? as you may know, America has had Latinos for years, Puerto Rico has sent immigrants for years.. the adage, once I got here I wanted to close the door fits here and the fact that generational Hispanic's are Americans, that was a silver lining to me, not they voted how I wished, but being an American first is a great thing in my book. So if this outcome was a surprise, be assured, China could be in for a big surprise. I agree there isn't always a rational explanation. But I do say I agree wholeheartedly with your perceived (and I'm sure correct) assessment that the USA will become more inward.. Trump has HAS got to bring jobs to the middle class who lost them or it will be 4 years and he's out. Peace!!! hopefully, not sure anymore and again I feel like I"m stuck in a world where I am being controlled by people who only care about themselves ala the Reagan years.

Time will tell. I hope I'm wrong Marie, I really do.. But I doubt it

with love to you and yours

Kate

 

[Tekate]

I was wondering how we turn back the clock on the migration of manufacturing from small towns too. US companies cannot compete with the low labor costs of other countries. That is just a fact. I wish it were so simple as to just slap tariffs and give tax incentives for companies to build here. Maybe he has figured it out. I can't. And so true about the wages from manufacturing jobs. What if you artificially inflate the market value of a manufacturing job. The goods will cost that much more, and will the public be willing to buy something that much more expensive than cheaper goods produced outside of the US? How do you prevent lower cost substitutes from being available to the consumer in the market? Trump is all about competition. I don't understand how that can be reconciled. I truly hope he has a viable plan, and good advisors. So you want to spend money on infrastructure? Where will that come from? Raising taxes? With a republican congress, will that happen? And My understanding is that he wants to cut taxes. Go into a spending deficit? I thought the Republicans were against that too? Like he said, it's not a success unless they make it happen (or something to that effect). He will need some very good advisors.

I have always willing to pay a higher price for american made products b/c american made products will last 3X longer than the craps made in China...i.e The american made water pump running my koi pond is 9 yrs old (running 7/24 365 days) and still going strong. Those shitty pumps made in China will not last more than 2.5 yrs.

Uh oh, because you can DF, those who voted for him may not be able to. I'm happy to see you can afford to pay more.. do you think all Americans are willing to pay more? I have a bridge for you.

 

[Tekate]

Distracts, automation, software, these things more than anything have taken away manufacturing jobs, all one has to do is google job loss - America - causes, and one can read this. We have Americans who want to turn back to the clock, Brits the same, a last gasp, software and automation is creeping into our healthcare, some operations can be done be robotics now.. we have to evolve or die, I've thought about this a LOT, and I agree that we, as a country need to up end service jobs, in Europe being a waiter is a career, in Italy being a front desk person at hotels, it's a career!... (yes Italy is screwed up) if Americans can't, won't, or don't want to see where automation, robotics and software is taking jobs, so be it, because Trump cannot 'bring jobs back'..American's can't afford to pay more, wealthy Americans can, under Trump the rich will be getting a nice tax cut, (ostensibly to create jobs, but study after study has shown the the rich keep their money and invest in the stock market). So we, the Brits, we are going backward.. so be it. But in Trump we have a guy who can lose billions on paper and not lose a dime.. we, the regular folks not so lucky - it's an exciting time, can Trump say to a automaker 'sorry, but you need to employ at least 2,000 Americans and pay them 16.00$ and hour? because Americans believe that it's true.. I don't think he can say that, but let's see where it all goes.. I'll be the first to say "hey the poor are working at jobs that well paying and they are training for the future if the world that the Trumpers envision.. I doubt it will happen, but I will be the first to clap!

 

[momhappy]

Momhappy, I do NOT understand what you are saying??? are you saying that now that TRUMPER has been elected that we, those who did NOT vote for him should surmise that he didn't mean what he said? that we 'all' should know that he was not being honest?

God help me. Seriously... I believed what he said and that is why I was against him! you can sign off and 'say' that it's going no where because you have no answer. I say to you, he's a liar then.

Tekate
I don't know why it's so difficult to understand because I've said the same thing over and over and over. If you don't get it or you have your own beliefs, that's fine.
Once again, I believe that campaign promises are issues that a presidential candidate would like to focus on. I suspect that yes, Trump will work towards his goals/promises, as most presidents do.
Oddly enough, this same exact topic is being discussed on the Today Show as I type this. They are breaking down each Trump campaign promise and labeling it based on how likely it is to actually get done while he's in office, so obviously, I am not the only one who recognizes that campaign promises don't always come to fruition. Take his temporary Muslim Ban, for example, the Today Show labeled it "very unlikely" to get done because it's very unpopular opinion, even among Republicans, which again, goes back to my point about things being more complicated (and it helps to explain why some campaign promises get done and some don't).
Yes, you should vote for candidates based on promises, platforms, etc., but I think most of us understand that not everything gets done for various reasons.
I've gotta' say, I'm feeling done with all of this. Trump won. Clinton lost. End of story. I was shocked, I let it sink in, and now I'm moving on. I'm not "signing off" I'm just not interested in this discussion any more and just because you haven't understood my point, doesn't mean that I don't have an answer. If you don't like my answer, that's fine too. If you want to think Trump is a liar, think Trump is a liar. I've never said that he's not a liar. I think that pretty much all politicians are liars to various degrees.

 

[siamese3]

I didn't post yesterday, but today I feel like I want to say that I hope that this election will serve as a wake up call to the media, the government, the pundits and americans as a whole. In some ways, as much as I am truly saddened by the outcome, I wonder what would have happened if Hillary had won, but only by a bit or if there had been a tie if the day after. It's hard to believe that the day would have been filled with the same graciousness that it was. The only thing that I know for sure in this world is that you can't move backward. That just isn't they way life works. So I am hopeful that diversity will continue to be embraced, people that are different will will feel safe in our world and that we will value all life.

 

[Tekate]

Momhappy, I do NOT understand what you are saying??? are you saying that now that TRUMPER has been elected that we, those who did NOT vote for him should surmise that he didn't mean what he said? that we 'all' should know that he was not being honest?

God help me. Seriously... I believed what he said and that is why I was against him! you can sign off and 'say' that it's going no where because you have no answer. I say to you, he's a liar then.

Tekate
I don't know why it's so difficult to understand because I've said the same thing over and over and over. If you don't get it or you have your own beliefs, that's fine.
Once again, I believe that campaign promises are issues that a presidential candidate would like to focus on. I suspect that yes, Trump will work towards his goals/promises, as most presidents do.
Oddly enough, this same exact topic is being discussed on the Today Show as I type this. They are breaking down each Trump campaign promise and labeling it based on how likely it is to actually get done while he's in office, so obviously, I am not the only one who recognizes that campaign promises don't always come to fruition. Take his temporary Muslim Ban, for example, the Today Show labeled it "very unlikely" to get done because it's very unpopular opinion, even among Republicans, which again, goes back to my point about things being more complicated (and it helps to explain why some campaign promises get done and some don't).
Yes, you should vote for candidates based on promises, platforms, etc., but I think most of us understand that not everything gets done for various reasons.
I've gotta' say, I'm feeling done with all of this. Trump won. Clinton lost. End of story. I was shocked, I let it sink in, and now I'm moving on. I'm not "signing off" I'm just not interested in this discussion any more and just because you haven't understood my point, doesn't mean that I don't have an answer. If you don't like my answer, that's fine too. If you want to think Trump is a liar, think Trump is a liar. I've never said that he's not a liar. I think that pretty much all politicians are liars to various degrees.

I don't understand why you do not understand that I believe Trump should live up to his rhetoric. Don't you think if Clinton had won the electoral college and became president you would feel the same? From what I read that you say, then all politicians are liars.. If you think I am not world smart, that would be wrong.. I am educated and 63 years old, I've lived through liars before, but I have always believed that a politician who is elected, on either side of the fence, has a duty to live up to what they were elected on.. Trump is a liar.. a big one.. a terrible one, his character is non existent, he has zero character, he uses women, he uses other people's money.. Your point is: 'hey he didn't mean what he said, all politician's lie, so get over it Kate" so what do I vote on? I didn't vote for Trump because of his platform and character.. so whoopie he's now president (with a trial starting next week on his Trump University, those he screwed) and he didn't mean what he said?.. gosh I've voted my conscience all my life and I've never been wrong about a republican yet. Trump won, so now you are feeling done? With winning comes the other side's thoughts, and reactions, think back to when Obama won, omg so many people, Fox news thrived, Trump thrived on stating over and over that Obama was not born here (hey hey he didn't REALLY mean it).. so with winning comes accountability.. I want Trump accountable for what he said he would do, he doesn't get a bye. I'm sorry that you don't understand my belief in accountability and belief in honesty.

 

[chrono]

Did anyone ponder this?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-business-ties-create-conflict-interest-issues-article-1.2866858

There is also an upcoming lawsuit
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/election-victory-shield-trump-legal-woes/story?id=43415273