The Cushion Quest

[Cehrabehra]

Wow... I''ve only been posting on this forum for two weeks and I have learned so much it''s incredible. You guys are wonderful! I want to thank each and every one of you who have helped me or taken interest in my quest.

I had an amusing and enlightening day today in my search. On the topic of cushions, I knew more than half of the jewlers I called today. And I''ve only been studying, I mean cramming, for about three weeks. I''ve been studying, I mean contemplating, for 15 years off and on. WHY do I know more than these people? I don''t get that. With cushions being one of the oldest cuts (The Regent http://famousdiamonds.tripod.com/regentdiamond.html was cut over 300 years ago! and it is said to be one of THE most brilliant large diamonds out there and yet you can''t find a reproduction regent cut ANYWHERE????) why why WHY doesn''t anyone know much about them? I''m truly perplexed. With a 300 plus year history, you''d think it wouldn''t be so obscure. But of course I know why it is... we''re all facinated by the brilliance and sparklies that the ideal rounds produce and the depths and mystery that lures an Asscher fan.

I have analyzed over 17 different cuts of cushion. I have played with them in photoshop - creating and erasing cut lines, and I can "see" where evolution has occurred since the time of the Old Mine Cut. If you look closely at the Old Mine Cut you will find a direct relationship between it and... The Regent! So, if I want something realistically quick that mostly resembles a Regent, I would choose an Old Mine Cut. I realized today that the cut I''ve been ''creating'' in my head and on paper, is in a similar way, a decendent of the Old European Cut, with influences from other cuts that I will go into more below.

Let''s consider Asschers for a minute... When I look at these beautiful Asscher cut stones, I see what Storm describes... I get a glimpse into infinity. I like that. It''s alluring to the mind as well as the eye. I like that quality and I want that quality very much. The squared and X''d lines in an Asscher are what keeps it from being *the* cut for me.

I learned today (don''t tease me!) that there are three basic cuts of stone. Brilliants, Step Cuts, and Mixed Cuts. Brilliants and Step Cuts are pretty familiar to all of us, and we see Mixed Cuts mostly in the Radiants and Princesses. But there''s another way of looking at mixed cuts. Rather than complicating the cut to produce more scintillation, how about simplifying the cut (but in a new, modern and *smart* way) down to the basics and allowing it to perform with prismatic perfection. It could be the trend of the future. You never know. Cycles and all that.

The stone design that I am working on is a marriage of ideas on Ideal Rounds, Asschers, Old European Cuts, Old Mine Cuts, and Cushions. It is very simple and I believe easy to cut, easy to analyze, and it is not affected by ratio differences. If I am correct, this cut would work for a 100 as well as it would for a 160. My cut is so simple yet rooted in history, that I believe that it is safe. But will it work? I don''t know. At the very least I think we can all agree there is room for innovation in the land of The Cushion.

The Round Influence
Perfection, Symmetry, Performance, Reliability, Light Analysis,
The Asscher Influence
Symmetry, Depth, Performance, the quality of the stone moving in graduated steps up the side of the stone, and the ability to impart thoughtful beauty without the need for scintilation.
The Old European Cut Influence
Large Prismatic and Symmetrical facet patterns that are interesting to look at even without scintilation.
The Old Mine Cut Influence
Rounded Shoulders, Culet
The Cushion Influence
Rounded Shoulders, Culet, the ability to play with length ratios, and the vast potential of, as yet, uncharted territory for one of the most historic diamond cuts on earth.

If I do this, I''ll need a master cutter, a truly interested vendor, referals to CAD people (I will travel if I need to), and some PS feedback as it develops. Anyone interested? Think I can garner some support for my little experiment here? The design is not complete. Angles need to be decided upon. Smart angles. Smart enough to support consistency should this ever be cut again. I also need to make sure the crown facets are tight with the rest of the design.

I looked back tonight on my first post here and it''s amazing the evolution that has already taken place. Fifteen years of wanting an oval... and fifteen years of being vaguely disappointed in their performance. I came here to look for an oval. Now look at me! LOL Am I insane?? If I do this, you guys can help me name the cut LOL! And then of course, I''ll name the stone

~~~~OR~~~~

Should I just get a round? hehehe... I''m kidding... but I might be able to settle on the right old mine or old european and I notice on Fay Cullen I could find one without too much problem or money... or better yet, use a vendor here to find one that I really like for possibly a better price and more enjoyable experience. I hate that word settle, but I''d be saving myself so much time and effort and money LOL

Thoughts?

 

[Cehrabehra]

For reference, here is the full sized Cushion compilation.

 

[JulieN]

so, how do you do a step cut with rounded shoulders?

also, as soon as you start playing with l/w, I would think you lose the qualities that are listed under round

and then a step cut with rounded shoulders and variable l/w while still keeping a kind symmetry that I think you're looking for is...not possible.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/13/2006 7:26:25 AM
Author: JulieN
so, how do you do a step cut with rounded shoulders?

It''s more the influence of the step cut than a replication of the step cut. I should have added that the Barion that John posted to me is also an influence.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/13/2006 7:26:25 AM
Author: JulieN
so, how do you do a step cut with rounded shoulders?

also, as soon as you start playing with l/w, I would think you lose the qualities that are listed under round

Again, the qualities under round are listed as influences, not replications. This cut is more directly old-cut inspired than ideal round inspired. I expect a different sort of "perfection". What I look at in a round is the reliability of the performance track record and the science that it is based upon. This ring will look NOTHING like an ideal round, but I''d be remiss if I did not tip my hat toward all of the light reserach done on them. The numbers for this stone will have to be different, and it is my hypothesis that the cut I''m thinking of will not be adversely affected by ratio change, providing I can get the crown and various angle numbers to mesh solidly. I''m going to work with my husband and anyone else who has an opinion on that.

IF I do this. And IF we succeed. I won''t cut the stone if I''m not *convinced* it is the right thing to do after design and CAD are complete. But I''m also seriously considering investing in that speculation at least to the point of design completion. I am still undecided. It''s a big undertaking.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/13/2006 7:26:25 AM
Author: JulieN

and then a step cut with rounded shoulders and variable l/w while still keeping a kind symmetry that I think you''re looking for is...not possible.

You''re right... it might not be possible. That is most certainly a risk. My father has a masters in art and a bachelors in physics... I have the most amazing sculpture that he made 30 years ago. Growing up with him, I''ve always had excellent spacial ability. I do NOT claim to know much more than diddly squat on light return and dispertion though, particularly on diamonds (I have a small collection of large, unusually shaped crystals and while I know their abilities are vastly different than what I can expect from my ring, they have been inspirational).

I am confident that my husband and I can take this to the point where we can make a decision on whether to test it in CAD (and frankly, we''ll likely do this regardless if we proceed to step 2. From there another decision would have to be made on whether to cut it. I''m not rushing into this... well... not as much as it might seem with me only being on here for 2 weeks LOL!! 1. Design 2 CAD 3 Cut The design costs me nothing but time. At any point prior to cut, if failure occurs, I can back out with the satisfaction I tried and perhaps inspire someone else to try something new. I feel pretty confident to say that the majority of innovations left out there in the future of the diamond, will be born of the broad and vague "Cushion Cut". It will never take the place of a round, but I firmly believe it deserves FAR more respect than it''s been given.

 

[diagem]

There are some cool pictures of Cushions i posted a while ago...


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diagem-please-tell-us-about-your-new-avatar.45713/page-2

 

[niceice]

Date: 7/13/2006 7:43:19 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/13/2006 7:26:25 AM

But I''m also seriously considering investing in that speculation at least to the point of design completion. I am still undecided. It''s a big undertaking.

And herein lies the primary challenge, while The DTC (DeBeers Diamond Trading Company) and the other diamond cartels are urging the diamond cutters to produce new, exciting, proprietary cuts, the primary focus will be on modifications of the traditional round brilliant design such as the Eighternity, Star 129, Solasfera, etc. because the majority of diamond sales are round brilliant cut diamonds and variations thereof. Fancy shape diamonds offer unique choices to people who are looking to break free from the traditional aspects of a round, but the market is still a small percentage of annual sales.

Make no mistake, the advances in cutting technology that have evolved greatly over the past decade or so are being used to produce fancy shape diamonds that are cut much more precisely than were possible or financially feasable to produce in past years, very few cutters are focusing on the creation of proprietary fancy shape diamonds because the Research & Development costs are rarely recouped as fast or as fully as they would be on the development of a more precise round brilliant cut diamond.

The fact that many people purchase on a cost per carat basis as opposed to a price for quality basis presents further challenge to the development and production of more precise cutting. The reality is that we''ve seen many brilliant diamond cutters introduce absolutely fabulous production into the market with the idea that the public will clamor for their absolutely precise production only to see them either begin to bend corners to cut cost because the public is unwilling to pay a little more for their production when it''s actually time to write a check, or see the company dwindle out of existence entirely. The reality being that the diamond buyers here on PS represent a very small percentage of the diamond buying public, the educated portion who tend to be quality focused. Online diamond and jewelry sales represent only about 1% of annual diamond and jewelry sales... When it comes to buying a diamond, people are often initially focused on all aspects of quality, but when faced with the decision between two diamonds of seemingly similar carat weight, color and clarity with seemingly minor variations in cut and precision of "minor things" like facet alignment and consistency of angle (I''m being sarcastic in my use of the term minor because to me it''s anything but...) quite often we find as sellers that the customer will elect to purchase the less expensive diamond because they can''t discern a distinct visual difference between the diamond cut to slightly looser standards and the diamond cut practically perfect - which costs more because it is cut more precisely... Precision costs time, precision results in a higher loss of diamond rough, precision costs more to market because more time is required to explain to a customer why this diamond is superior to a diamond of "slightly" lower cut quality when both look "similar" to the average inexperienced buyer under the blazing, blinding glare of jewelry store lighting. Here again, I emphasize that the more techologically savvy internet buyer is NOT the norm in the world of diamond buyers!

As further evidence of my suggestion that people tend to buy price per carat over quality and are often unwilling to pay more for a proprietary cut, note that most people will purchase a super ideal cut diamond as opposed to a variation such as the Eighternity, Star 129 or Solasfera when confronted with the higher purchase price of these diamonds which is partially the result of an attempt by the cutter to recoup their R&D costs and pay for additional cutting time and rough loss... Rest assured that we sell FAR more super ideal cut diamonds than the round brilliant hybrids and the most common reason expressed by the customer for purchasing the ideal is "I don''t see enough of a difference to justify the added cost" (and I openly admit that I''d probably make that decision most of the time myself).

So the unfortunate (financial) reality here is that you should probably be prepared to fund the R&D expense of seeing your creation come to life, even in the CAD phase (which also can incur significant expense simply because time does in fact cost money which is why practically every CAD designer that I know requires a non-refundable deposit upfront these days before taking on even the smallest project) UNLESS there is somebody here on PS with a CAD program and ample time on their hands - I''d LOVE to work this up for you myself just for the entertainment value of creating something new and having an excuse to play around in the CAD program, however the reality is that I''m truly buried with other projects that require my attention in a more immediate nature because I''m (finally) able to run the company again after waiting more than a year to break probate proceedings following the passing of my wife Robin in June of last year... Is there anybody here who has a CAD program and time to play? If so, I think it would be a kick to see this concept come to life from the shere perspective of clocking how long it took to develop, etc. I know that the more recent 5.3.1 version of Matrix has the ability to tweak facets about, but I haven''t had the time to play with it...

I hope that somebody here on PS has the time to at least CAD up a 3D prototype of your design "just for fun" because I think that people here on PS are pro-active in the improvement and development of our industry from an honest perspective of wanting to improve things... But beyond that, please understand that I''m not trying to be harsh, merely realistic by suggesting that you be prepared to pay the R&D costs if you TRULY want to see this diamond produced even one time... My explanation comes with the understanding that I have been in the room with diamond cutters when new cuts are suggested and "custom tweaking" is requested and the response is pretty much always the same "we''ll do anything that a customer wants providing that they are willing to pay for it to be developed and for all of the diamond rough required and for all of the dust which hits the floor regardless of how the production turns out until the outcome is perfect" and believe me, that can be a perilous amount of money

Speaking of perilous amounts of money, here is a little insight into what it costs for a designer to bring their goods to market... While in New York last month, I visited with a friend of mine who works for a prominent designer who we don''t carry because they do not allow their product to be sold on the internet. Their office was fabulous, absolutely beautiful and I made a comment to that effect... He responded by saying "it should be, we pay more than $25K a month for the space and we had to make all of the improvements ourselves..." I was stunned, but then again, I''ve been living in Oregon for a few years now and I guess that I''ve become accustomed to more reasonable real estate prices because let''s face it, we''re not competing with more than 10M people for space! But then he went on to explain that the cost of their booth for the recent JCK trade show in Las Vegas cost more than $250K and that was just for the booth production, design and assembly, NOT the cost of actually renting the booth space or the registration costs for exhibiting at the trade show! I won''t even get into the cost of promoting the brand with full page ads in all the popular magazines each month - so that people who fall in love with the design can try to steal it by having a local jeweler knock it off to half the quality (oops, did I say that last part out loud?) It''s all about cost.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/13/2006 10:33:56 AM
Author: niceice

Date: 7/13/2006 7:43:19 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

So the unfortunate (financial) reality here is that you should probably be prepared to fund the R&D expense of seeing your creation come to life, even in the CAD phase (which also can incur significant expense simply because time does in fact cost money which is why practically every CAD designer that I know requires a non-refundable deposit upfront these days before taking on even the smallest project)

I''m sorry if I didn''t make it clear last night... it was late er early lol I''m not interested in making a brand for anyone other than myself. If it works, the design will get ripped off and oh well. If someone else tried to brand it I''d think that was pretty shifty, but again, this is a diversion for me, not a career change LOL The reason that I would want it to be *repeatable* is more to back up the quality of my one stone, not so I could have it mass produced. I don''t know what sort of R&D there really is here... there''s me, my husband, a CAD designer, a cutter and that''s about it unless you want to include the vendor. I certainly don''t think I need to spend thousands of dollars creating light return machines designed to throw back results on MY cut only. That would be ridiculous. So... how much does CAD run? I have a friend here with a 10 year old version of CAD and I think even my husband has an old CAD program around here somewhere... dunno if it''s usable. A deposit is fine, but how much do CAD designers charge, say... per hour? I mean, it can''t be THAT much. The biggest risk is getting to the point where you look at the design and say IT''S A GO! and you buy a 3 carat diamond and hand it to a cutter and start to pray that everything will go as planned and the finished product is the result that you desired. But I''m still a long way from that. When I said I was looking for support here, I meant encouragement, feedback, interest, or at least amusement LOL I wasn''t looking for funding LOL

UNLESS there is somebody here on PS with a CAD program and ample time on their hands - I''d LOVE to work this up for you myself just for the entertainment value of creating something new and having an excuse to play around in the CAD program, however the reality is that I''m truly buried with other projects that require my attention in a more immediate nature because I''m (finally) able to run the company again after waiting more than a year to break probate proceedings following the passing of my wife Robin in June of last year... Is there anybody here who has a CAD program and time to play? If so, I think it would be a kick to see this concept come to life from the shere perspective of clocking how long it took to develop, etc. I know that the more recent 5.3.1 version of Matrix has the ability to tweak facets about, but I haven''t had the time to play with it...

Well, I''m in no BIG hurry and I live here in oregon as well... so if you''re ever bored... hehehe...

If I were the posters here, I wouldn''t volunteer to play CAD with someone unless I already knew the design was at least somewhat viable and not a crackpot idea by an idiot who wandered over to pricescope LOL And we just don''t know that yet! I don''t know that yet. I think it''s good, but I''ve been wrong before! And I have no problem being open with the cut design, when it''s ready to be shared. There is still too much to do... at this point I only have vague sorts of descriptions because what I see so clearly in my head, is just that - still in my head.

I hope that somebody here on PS has the time to at least CAD up a 3D prototype of your design ''just for fun'' because I think that people here on PS are pro-active in the improvement and development of our industry from an honest perspective of wanting to improve things... But beyond that, please understand that I''m not trying to be harsh, merely realistic by suggesting that you be prepared to pay the R&D costs if you TRULY want to see this diamond produced even one time... My explanation comes with the understanding that I have been in the room with diamond cutters when new cuts are suggested and ''custom tweaking'' is requested and the response is pretty much always the same ''we''ll do anything that a customer wants providing that they are willing to pay for it to be developed and for all of the diamond rough required and for all of the dust which hits the floor regardless of how the production turns out until the outcome is perfect'' and believe me, that can be a perilous amount of money

I don''t think that''s harsh at all, I think that''s what I expected. Now sure there''s the little fantasy of a benefactor swooping in and saying, "oh that''s so brilliant, let me make that for you" and maybe buying the rights to the cut and seeing it take off... well it''s a fantasy, but I''m not even sure it''s my fantasy. I dont know that I have a great desire to see my cut on another woman''s finger! lol!!! Nah, I''m not that selfish either... but I''m somewhere between those two. Just feeling like it is MY responsibility if I do this, my risk and my reward. I don''t know what you consider a perilous amount of money. If I were concerned about resale, sure there''d be a loss when shaving off a larger diamond into dust, but I''m not. I''m looking for at worst a bizarre little heirloom with a great story to it that I can pass to my children... at best I''m looking at a totally custom designed ring from start to finish, unique in every way and a brilliant piece of art to boot.

So....... what are perilous amounts of money? LOL I''m not going to spend a hundred thousand dollars on this. Not even close. I''m not that vain LOL!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/13/2006 10:00:22 AM
Author: DiaGem
There are some cool pictures of Cushions i posted a while ago...


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diagem-please-tell-us-about-your-new-avatar.45713/page-2

Wow! Those are AWESOME!!! I''d asked you about your avatar in my other thread (fancy guru I think) but now that I see the big pictures, that is one cool stone! See? Why does everyone want the SAME round stones... I guess for the same reason I had to have a little triangle with a question mark in it on my butt in high school LOL Though I have to admit those rounds do what they do VERY well... but so did those guess jeans LOL!

There are a few stones in there that I find very beautiful... I''m going to try to repost a couple here if you don''t mind.