The color is "k", but polish is "exellent" do I get it?

[Tina]

My husband and I were thinking of upgrading my ring from a carat to close to a 2 carat. I''''m not looking at getting a 2 carat b/c of the price. We saw one we liked. A 1.67 princess cut VS1 but I noticed the color was "k". But the lady was fast to point out that the polish...would that be the same as cut?...was "excellent". It did sparkle like fire. The ring that I have now is a "j" color. In the new ring I thought I could see some yellow in it but she took me out of the store in natural light to see that it was "their" lighting giving them that affect. My husband on the other hand couldnt see it. Should I pass and wait for a color that is about "h,i" range? The ring is going to cost us about $9,000 now with the k color. I love the size but I dont want to get something big just for it to look unappealing......help.

Thanks,


Tina

 

[chrono]

I would be hesitant of getting a K coloured Princess because fancies tend to show more body colour but it seems like you have seen this one outdoors and are okay with it. Polish has nothing to do with cut. I wish I could cut and paste the recommended stats for getting a wowzer PC but unfortunately I''m not that computer literate. These are the stats that should net you a pretty PC: Princess Cut Chart

 

[Kaleigh]

Hi Tina,
Welcome to PS. If you post this in the rocky talky forum you''ll get lots more replies. Good luck!

 

[chrono]

I''m going to forward this to Leonid so that he can move it Rocky Talky which should generate more responses.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Take the sales clerk up on her comment about outside light. Ask to get the diamond in natural lighting. If they have a store front window, take the ring there to look at the stone. If you have to take the ring outside, ask for someone to go with you so you can see the diamond outside.

Chrono is right that fancies tend to hold and show more body color. But there are people with well cut, lower color fancies that are very pleased with their diamonds. Perception of color really comes down to the quality of the cut and your own eyes.

Also, get as much information as you can about the specs on the diamond. Refer to the cut charts in the Tutorial so you know what to look for in better cut Princess diamonds. Here''s a link to the charts:

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc1.asp

You can also use the DIY Cut Grading system at www.gemappraisers.com to help grade the cut rating. Just tick on DIY in the left hand tool bar, select princess, and enter the specs of the diamond.

Also, there are PS Vendors who have hand selected Princess cuts in stock that have been professionally evaluated and choser for performance. For comparison purposes, here are links to 3 I found in your general size and price point ranges:

http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-924823.htm 1.58, H, VS1, Price Scope priced at $9262

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=7213288 1.5, G, SI1 $8986

http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_1_55_gvs12.htm 1.55, G, VS1 $8983 cash price

Nice Ice is another Vendor who checks every diamond they bring in before shipping to the customer. NI simply didn''t have a diamond currently available in your price/size range.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 2/10/2005 1

8:58 PM
Author:Tina
My husband and I were thinking of upgrading my ring from a carat to close to a 2 carat. I'm not looking at getting a 2 carat b/c of the price. We saw one we liked. A 1.67 princess cut VS1 but I noticed the color was 'k'. But the lady was fast to point out that the polish...would that be the same as cut?...was 'excellent'. It did sparkle like fire. The ring that I have now is a 'j' color. In the new ring I thought I could see some yellow in it but she took me out of the store in natural light to see that it was 'their' lighting giving them that affect. My husband on the other hand couldnt see it. Should I pass and wait for a color that is about 'h,i' range? The ring is going to cost us about $9,000 now with the k color. I love the size but I dont want to get something big just for it to look unappealing......help.

Thanks,


Tina

Color grading of a diamond is perfomed while it is FACE down. The face up color for you is more important. Diamonds aren't graded face up because their face up appearance may vary a lot from the gemologically graded color. You can have a K color face up the same, better or worse.

How do you KNOW this is really a K color? Is the color grading from a major lab cert or made by the seller?

I think with the "improved" view outside, you are seeing the influence of UV which is a component of natural daylight. Depending on the type of store lighting, the stone Also this stone could be fluorescent, and when exposed to UV it adds some blue color to it which masks the yellow. You should look at it again, and get a piece of lexan to see if the appearance changes in the outside environment. Lexan will filter out the UV and you'll get a much more accurate appearance of the diamond's face up color. You can purchase a piece of lexan from a local dealer of plastic You don't need a large piece, and one about 1/4 inch thick..

You also want to view this diamond under UV lighting conditions, to see if it is fluoresent.

As far as polish being represented as a good cut. This is somewhat misleading. While the quality of the polish of a stone it is only a small part of what really is considered in determining fine cut.

Is the $9000 price tag for the diamond alone, or the difference you'd have to pay to trade in your current one?

Rockdoc

 

[Iceman]

Look at the diamond if you like it get it. There is no rule stating you have to like a certain color of diamond. Kind of like DeBeers telling you that 2 months salary is a must.


Remember please yourself not us Yes, take our advice and mix it in with yours.

Too many people get hung up on being politically correct all the time

Some people like the warmer colors


Just thinking outside the box

 

[Tina]

Well I''m going to Helzberg and it''s 9,000 but they are knocking off 5 of it from my trade in. I looked at the certificate and browsed as fast as I could. I wonder why she made it so important that the polish was execellent....to down play the color? I dont know. I know that I like my ring now, and it''s a j color. But she also told me that there is no difference between j and k. Is that true? Again, Im looking for size but I dont want the price too kill my husband at the same time.....or at least in one shot. LOL

 

[Tina]

I also forgot to tll you that it was GIA certified. Are you telling me that some certificates are fake? Or lie? When it says it''s a k...it could really be a n or o?

 

[Patty]

Date: 2/10/2005 5

7:13 PM
Author: Tina
Well I''m going to Helzberg and it''s 9,000 but they are knocking off 5 of it from my trade in. I looked at the certificate and browsed as fast as I could. I wonder why she made it so important that the polish was execellent....to down play the color? I dont know. I know that I like my ring now, and it''s a j color. But she also told me that there is no difference between j and k. Is that true? Again, Im looking for size but I dont want the price too kill my husband at the same time.....or at least in one shot. LOL

No difference between J and K?

That''s absurd. Maybe not to her eye, or to your eye, but there is a reason that there are diamond color grades and that is to discern the differences in color.

 

[ame]

Personally, it sounds like you should go to a better jeweler especially after that no difference between a J and K comment.

I don''t think polish should be the deciding factor. The color should be over the polish. The cut quality should outdo all of them and from what I know of the Maul stores, they don''t sell qualit.

 

[Cath]

Date: 2/10/2005 5:10:43 PM
Author: Patty
No difference between J and K?

That''s absurd. Maybe not to her eye, or to your eye, but there is a reason that there are diamond color grades and that is to discern the differences in color.

My thoughts exactly.

As far as your cert question, what previous posters are saying is that some diamonds aren''t certified while others are certified at labs that don''t have standards as strict as the GIA. But now that you''ve clarified that the diamond has a GIA cert, we know the color grade is coming from an impartial and reputable source.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/10/2005 5:7:13 PM
Author: Tina

I wonder why she made it so important that the polish was execellent....to down play the color?

I think so. Positive!

Polish is sort of non-issue. Unless it gets "fair" you will never see any difference. Ever. The grades above "good" are hard enough to grade, let alone see in real life.

Interestingly, GIA gives the same jaded evaluation of the visual impact of their cut grades (see the article on GIA cut grades in the Pricescope Diamonds Jourbal, page 10). This is not just my idea... not that I do not wholehartedly agree.

Good brilliance and size for weight are rare enough for princess cuts. If this one is ok in the color department (not that it shouldn''t, but that is the one detail "outside the box") and price, why not.

Speaking of color... there are a couple of "K"s around here with happy owners. I am not very convinced a tinge of color hurts diamonds'' looks or anything. Prices are clear - looks not quite. Perhaps I should hate all the antique-white things between the M and U color grades. But it is sooooo hard, once you get to see a couple of large and beautifully cut ones.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Speaking of color... there are a couple of "K"s around here with happy owners.

The diamonds Val is referring to are rounds, not princess cuts.

But she also told me that there is no difference between j and k. Is that true?

K is one color grade down from J. There is a difference. Not only in the color, but in the pricing premium assigned to each color grade. Typically people cannot tell the difference in 1 color grade. But you saw a difference. Could be your J is on the higher end of J and this K is on the lower end of the K range. Could be your diamond is a better cut than the diamond you are considering. A well cut diamond masks color better than a lesser cut.

Well I'm going to Helzberg and it's 9,000 but they are knocking off 5 of it from my trade in.

If you'll take a look at the diamonds I referenced above as comps (just click on the links) you'll see that it is quite possible have a new diamond and keep the one you have for the same price. Helzberg's isn't giving you any sort of deal. They are giving you a comparable price for lower color, questionable quality of cut diamond, and they are getting to keep your diamond as a kicker in the deal. Your diamond could make a great pendant for yourself, or you can pass it on as an heirloom to someone else.

Edited to add:

There are currently 2, GIA Certed, 1.67 carat, K, VS1 diamonds being offered for sale by Price Scope Vendors. Pricing ranges from $5488 to $5718. That's a bit of a margin Helzberg's is working on.

 

[Mara]

Date: 2/10/2005 5

7:13 PM
Author: Tina
Well I'm going to Helzberg and it's 9,000 but they are knocking off 5 of it from my trade in. I looked at the certificate and browsed as fast as I could. I wonder why she made it so important that the polish was execellent....to down play the color? I dont know. I know that I like my ring now, and it's a j color. But she also told me that there is no difference between j and k. Is that true? Again, Im looking for size but I dont want the price too kill my husband at the same time.....or at least in one shot. LOL

Well you have gotten alot of excellent advice so far. My two cents is that this group here is going to be VERY conscientious about the details and err on the side of suspicious. That is a good way to be in my opinion, esp when you are dropping $4k extra on an upgraded stone.

Your comment of 'why she made it so important that polish was excellent'...my two cents on that is probably because she doesn't know any better, she didn't know that you would come to a site like Pscope and ask these same questions you are asking. You WERE impressed when she said polish was EX and it helped you overlook the J color slightly, or else you would not have posted it in your subject line. So if you were just the average consumer who didn't happen upon this board, you'd probably be like..WOW that polish is excellent! When in REALITY that doesn't mean a whole lot.

You want a princess stone that has BOTH Symmetry and Polish to be excellent. Where the inclusions aren't visible. Where the girdle is not going to be Thick or Thin but rather somewhere in between.

Princess and fancy cut stones alot of times are hard to gauge just by numbers. I have seen alot of crappy princesses out there, in fact I tend to think that 90% of them are crappy if not more, as not many people know what sort of CRITERIA to look for when purchasing a fancy cut stone...and it's certainly not as easy as saying 'It has EXCELLENT polish!'

You happened upon Pscope which is good for you. Now read up and educate yourself before deciding to do ANYTHING. There are alot of people here with excellent advice. You may have to shop with Helzberg's because of your trade-in, but at least you can go in with some additional education and tell her what you want her to show you. Be strict about your criteria, this IS your money..they are not doing you any favors by selling you this stone, even with a trade-in.

Good luck and be sure you know what you want. If it's not a J because you can see some color, then drop down slightly to an I. Don't EVER let anyone else sway your opinion..because if you see color but your hubby doesn't...you are going to be wearing that stone, not him...and you should absolutely love it.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I didn''t read that right. I thought they wanted her diamond, which they were allowing $5K for, and an additional $9K. $4K for the stone with the trade sounds much better.

 

[phoenixgirl]

The price is marked up really high, so the "trade-in" discount is really not helping you at all. Look at this similar stone:

1.67 K VS1 princess for $5670

So if your stone doesn''t have any spectacular features (and no, "excellent" polish is not going to add more than a few $s over "very good" polish) that we don''t know about, then you are only getting $1500 for your current stone.

Polish doesn''t have anything to do with cut. Yes, it''s nice, but you can have a terribly cut stone with excellent polish. What we need to know is if your stone is cut to the right proportions to really sparkle.

And while we''re at it, why are you looking at such low color combined with such relatively high clarity? I would get SI clarity, whatever you decide to do about color. There''s nothing wrong with "K" color if that is what you''re looking for -- to have a slightly tinted but larger stone. But don''t just pick it because it was recommended by a salesperson who thought that "excellent polish" made the stone a must buy.

 

[valeria101]

.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/10/2005 6:23:44 PM
Author: pqcollectibles

There are currently 2, GIA Certed, 1.67 carat, K, VS1 diamonds being offered for sale by Price Scope Vendors. Pricing ranges from $5488 to $5718. That's a bit of a margin Helzberg's is working on.

I think the stone in cause is 2 carats (is it ?)... and the competing prices are not that far away.

The proportions of the stone at Helzberg are not known, but these guys below do not come with allot of detail either - just the stats on the GIA lab reports. It would cost something to see them (via appraiser or somethign) and then, the trade-in priviledge would be lost.

1.6 carats would be a different story allright. There's allot more choice of color and clarity for 9k. Perhaps this doesn't matter too much now, but one I, VVS1 princess among these options might well deserve a click because it comes from a relatively unusual breed of princess cuts cut to optimize brilliance.

 

[Tina]

Thank you for all of the advice, I have not had the chance to get online for awhile, I think I''m driving my husband crazy with this all diamond talk, that he has gotten frustrated. It has been ugly, so I had to lay off on getting online and getting more ifo on diamonds. He basicaly told me that when I put the ring on my eyes were in a trance. And I had the look as if we had to get it then right then and there. And why should it matter what the certificate says. To a certain degree I agree. But then there are parts of me that don''t.
So...........he is out of town. At some convention Louisiana for Parts Plus. I told him that I was going to go back and talk to the lady that was helping me again. And by my surprise he said please do it and let''s get this ring deal behind us, I want you to be happy.
I went there and as she was helping a customer out, I was scanning over the diamonds and...I must be going insane (as my husband would call it)...b/c I swear I could see yellow in most of the diamonds that were displayed, even the one that was on dispaly that showed its color and cut grade. It was an "h". I didnt want to tell her that. B/c now I feel like maybe I am going over the deep end with this ( yikes ). So I looked at the cert. on the one I have on layaway. Yes it is "k" and the polish was execellent...I did see the symmetry was "very good". Which after reading so much on the internet, thats what gave my ring the fire. Everything else about the diamond meets to my criteria.....I''m starting to think maybe "k" really isn''t that bad.
I would love the idea of getting one online b/c it seems like you really getting a good deal . But I can''t convince my husband to do it. Trust me I have tried
But thank you again for all the advice! I will be back in the future......Tina

 

[Tina]

And I forgot one thing....the ring I have now is about 5500 and they want 9500 for 1.67. And we''re only paying the difference when we trade it in about 4000. This is the only way I can get a ring....Retail. So we have to get stiffed on this one. My husband won''t buy online. He would rather see the diamond in person.

 

[Tina]

One last thing...it said it was a minimum k. I thought a k was a k...period. What does that mean?

 

[xraydoc]

Color is really important, personally I would opt for a lower clarity grade and move up to a G or H color.

My wife''s current diamond is a 1.73 princess, I, VVS2. It is a well cut and super clean stone but the hint of yellow bothers her. She does have a very sensitive eye. And probably more importantly, most of her friends have (large) D-G diamonds. What can I say, we live in Scottsdale

We are going to upgrade to a larger cushion cut, which she prefers to the princess. We are moving down to a VS2 clarity from VVS2. An SI1 would have been okay too as long as it was eye clean. G was the lowest color we considered. She really wanted an E or F but I convinced her that it would be very difficult to tell an F from a G once set, and the price premium for an E was quite high.

We are going to try to trade the 1.73 I/VVS2 princess at the store we purchased it at for some stud earrings. Probably 2-2.5 total ct weight, clarity enhanced round brilliants.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/27/2005 11:19:1 AM
Author: Tina

My husband won''t buy online. He would rather see the diamond in person.

Is there an appraiser in the area where an internet seller could ship a diamond for both of you to see ?

 

[Maxine]

Sometimes stores like a mall store or Costco say a minimum K, which means all of their stones are a K or Better...so it''s possible that the stone is actually a J or even an I....you might want to check that out with someone...

 

[pyramid]

If the GIA certificate states it is a K then that is what it is. Remember GIA invented these grades and have the final say.

I think that it is very easy to always want the best when looking at this forum but remember you should set a budget and stick within it. I have read these forums for years and there are many people happy with the diamonds and service they have received. However if your husband is against this way of purchasing then you ultimately have to make a compromise and buy where you are both happy or he has to make a compromise and buy where you are both happy