Tell me about your Ideal/Super Ideal diamonds

[the_mother_thing]

I am tossing around the idea of mayyyybe dipping my toe into the ideal/super ideal pool. I don’t have a budget or timeline in mind yet ... just doing some ‘due diligence’ for now to help me decide if - for me - it’d be worthwhile. I’d probably be looking at something around the 1-1.25 ct mark. It’s not something I’d likely be upgrading because while I love looking at big beautiful diamonds, anything over 1.5ct just isn’t really practical for my lifestyle.

I’ve never seen an ideal or super ideal diamond in person, but the usual white flashes in RB diamonds never really did anything for me (but to be fair, I probably was just not seeing well cut RBs). I like colorful flashes (thus why I love OECs). But the colorful flashes and fire in the videos I’ve seen on the PS vendors’ sites are kinda giving me the itch since my OEC is more pastels and some days I kinda want some primary color flashes.

Performance: I’m curious how they perform in every day lighting. Do they put out the fireworks flashes in normal indoor lighting like I see in some of the videos online? What about outdoors/natural daylight? Or is that only seen really in LED lighting? Do you need to hit a certain size to be able to appreciate the visual difference between an ideal/super ideal vs. a ‘standard’ XXX? If so, what is that size, do you think?

Inclusions: I browsed a few ACAs just to see what is out there, pricing, etc., and I was curious about something I saw on one that was a VS2, but has a ‘blotch’ of small inclusions toward the center under the table (noted on the AGS report as crystal, cloud & feather with additional clouds, surface & internal graining not shown on the plot). Does the brilliance/fire of an ideal/super ideal usually disguise any small/minor inclusions - such as this example - or are they still visible close-up in normal lighting in about a 1 ct sone? I could see them in the pic & video, but are the pics/videos so magnified that I’d probably not see something like that in normal viewing? I’m *thinking* I wouldn’t see them, as my OEC is about 7mm, an SI1 and has the same inclusions (but not graining), and I can’t see them in my diamond unless I get right up on the table with my eye.

Color: I’m not color sensitive, so I think that I would probably be comfortable going down to a J/K to get a little more spread. How noticeable is the body color from the side in an ideal/super ideal cut? When viewing ACAs, the background video is black so it’s hard to tell how noticeable the color is from that angle, but I see a lot of rainbows from the side, which I kinda love.

I don’t know what I don’t know, so if you have/had one, please feel free to share your perspective on the above questions, what it is you love about it at it’s best as well as what (if anything) you dislike about it at it’s ‘worst’ (if there is such a thing). Of course, please feel free to post pictures and videos of your diamond performance (and specs) if you don’t mind. I am a visual person and will ultimately (and literally) need to see the difference to decide if I want to take the plunge.

Thanks - in advance - if you made it through all that!

 

[rockysalamander]

Bump
@cflutist @HappyNewLife @diamondseeker2006

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, I see a lot of people expecting fireworks when they open the package with a diamond, and I think that is a a recipe for disappointment! The lighting determines what you'll see. The best lighting for diamonds is in stores like WalMart, Lowes, other big stores with halogen lighting. Ideal cuts have great optical symmetry and thinner facets than an OEC. They reflect light well. They sparkle in certain lighting. They just look white in fluorescent lighting. Pictures rarely do justice to a diamond and videos don't really either. Videos may use special lighting that won't translate into real life viewing. You must see a stone in person in your own environment to know if you love it.

The whiter the color of the stone, the brighter it will appear (assuming well cut). I wouldn't go to K color in an ideal cut round unless you just like a less white stone. I can start seeing the tint face up in some J's. And lower color stones seem to show environmental color more. They are beautiful due to the cut in all colors, though. And I think you can appreciate the cut in any size.

As far as inclusions go, WF tells you on each diamond listing if the stone is eyeclean. They do not select stones for their ACA line that have inclusions that hinder light return. I am sure CBI doesn't either. It would be rare for an ideal cut stone with VS2 clarity to have visible inclusions.

I am pointing out some potential misconceptions here, but I think superideal cut stones are very beautiful. But we could talk all day long and it really wouldn't make any difference. You absolutely have to see some in person to know how you personally feel and also to determine your color preferences, etc. I have lower color antique stones, but I prefer H or higher in my superideal cuts (my studs are WF ACA H VS2). @cflutist has my really favorite combination in her newest CBI stone...F VS1!!! She has gorgeous pictures, too!

But you still need to see some. You might be able to see Hearts on Fire brand at a jeweler nearby, but those are very overpriced. That was how I saw my first hearts and arrows stone, though. You can always order a stone and return it if you decide it doesn't have the specs you want, too.

 

[the_mother_thing]

You know you have ‘gemnesia’ problems when you forget you have an ACA in the safe after posting a thread asking about ideal cut performance. I haven’t worn this ring in awhile, and it just occured to me that it was noted when I bought it (preloved thru JbG) to have one or more ideal/ACAs for the sides; will have to dig out the details tomorrow. How did I forget that I had it? I clearly need to give it more wear time to remember how the diamonds perform to decide if I want to go with a larger ideal cut solitaire.


@diamondseeker2006 - Thank you so much for the thoughtful input and perspective, especially about expectations. Checking out a HOF dealer is a great idea to see larger stones in person & gauge color preferences as well. I guess I should plan to change out all my home’s lightbulbs. Here is the link to the one I saw that had the inclusion: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947683.htm. I see WF says that it’s eye clean, but when I look at the video, I can see it (granted, it’s magnified) under the table. Do you know what level of magnification WF videos equate to? 10x, 20x, 40x? Or the range they view eye clean at - 12", 16", etc? I don’t have a lot of experience to know if I’d ever see that in person at a normal viewing distance or not. But it made me think that - with a larger stone - I may. And that’s something I would want to understand if/when shopping for one in the 7mm range.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow, that's funny if you have a ring with ACAs! Did it come with AGS reports?

I don't know the level of magnification they use, but if you look at the small images below the large diamond image, you'll see a small image of the diamond that is still several times larger than the stone itself. So you can see in that picture that it is unlikely you could see the inclusions in real life viewing. But I always say I'd need to see a stone to be sure if color or clarity was questionable, so I'd just send for it and return if it wasn't clean enough for me. I have sent for a fair number of diamonds in the last 12 years...some I kept and some I returned!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I found their explanation of "eyeclean":

"The Whiteflash baseline definition of eye-clean is:
No inclusions visible to the naked eye of a person with 20/20 vision when viewing the diamond in the face-up position at a distance of approximately 10 inches under normal overhead lighting .
Distance, lighting and human vision all influence this judgment. There is no universally agreed upon definition of eye-clean in the trade so we developed this one in order to communicate meaningfully with our customers. 10 inches is the ‘distance of most distinct vision’ as defined by the field of optometry. It is also a basis used by the AGS Laboratory in light performance grading, and so this is a logical standard and a practical baseline.
Diamonds graded by AGS and GIA with clarities of VS or above are almost always completely eye-clean by the above standard. On our website diamond detail pages Si clarity diamonds include an icon indicating when the diamond is eye-clean.
*For practical guidance see our page on diamond clarity. For more in-depth information see our page on clarity grading at the lab."

 

[the_mother_thing]

Wow, that's funny if you have a ring with ACAs! Did it come with AGS reports?

Yea ... I will wear the diamond dunce hat ... one of the side stones is an ACA. I never got the certs from Grace, but I did save screenshots of the details when I bought it. The report from David Atlas noted the GIA # for the center & AGS # for one of the sides (the other side wasn’t cert’d, I don’t think but appears to be a good match). I looked up both reports, and the center scored a 2.7 HCA and was well within that bright green section of the map, and the AGS stone report states the ‘A Cut Above symbol’ inscribed with the report #. On the bright side, having forgotten I had it, it’s almost like getting new bling again without having to pay for it.

I GREATLY appreciate your putting into perspective the scale of the pictures with regard to clarity. It’s amazing how easy it is to get so focused on the zoomed in photo and forget how one will actually view the diamond in person. So in your opinion, IF that stone ticked off all my boxes (it doesn’t, just using it for an example), but if it did, would you opine/suggest that inclusion would be a deal breaker and to keep looking, or that it would be a good buy? And note that for me - the inclusion wouldn’t be a ‘mind clean’ issue - I’m okay with an inclusion I can see with a loupe to help ID my stone.

Thanks for your thoughts DS; very helpful!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would have to see any stone with an inclusion under the table in person to see if it bothered me. I doubt there are any circumstances you could see it, but I know sometimes there are inclusions that may show when the lighting hits them just right. That may not even be negative, but I like to see stones before making a commitment. If the inclusions can't be seen in their pictures or videos at all, then I don't see the stones in advance. I have upgraded studs without seeing the stones every time because they were all VS2 except one SI1 once, and it was completely eyeclean. WF is also very honest when asked questions like that. I also ask them to compare color to other stones to be sure I am not getting a stone at the low end of the color grade and also to be sure the two stones matched in color.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I agree that if I decide to go down this path, I’d definitely have to see the stone in hand to decide for sure, but it’ll require a purchase to do that, which is fine if there is a return policy (which I know WF & HPD do have and I would probably stick with one of those two). I know exactly what you mean re: seeing an inclusion in certain lighting when a stone is angled just ‘right’ for it. My OEC has one that I can occasionally spot when the right light hits it just right, but I really have to look for it even then so it doesn’t bother me in the least. And I’d *think* that - in an RB that has less ‘blocky’ faceting - it’d be even harder to see it via normal viewing.

Here are two pics taken outside - one each of the two side stones. One is an ACA, the other is not (at least, it’s not documented to be an ACA). In pictures, with my loupe, and with my naked eyes, I cannot discern the difference. I just see beautiful fire & sparkle, and for J/K color diamonds, they face up pretty darn white to me. My ‘concern’ (for lack of a better word) is if my eyes cannot discern the difference, is it really worth the price premium for me to purchase. I know that’s a ‘me thing’ to figure out; I just need to get there somehow ... thus this thread.

I sent @Asscherhalo_lover a message privately via LT, as she was the prior owner and may recall or have some info to help me figure out which is which (e.g. the one closes to the metal purity stamp or a specific inclusion I might be able to spot with my loupe).

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

@the_mother_thing I have no idea which is which! One is an ACA but the other is also AGS 0 or 1 at the most, also very well cut. They all had certs, it's pretty surprising that you didn't get them since they were sent along with the consignment. I actually miss the ring, it was so comfy!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Oh also, LT messaging system doesn't really work, if you want to get in touch you can email me through the email in the listing!

 

[cflutist]

Thank you for tagging me, @rockysalamander


For the older cuts I believe the big, fluid fire you see in the best ones is most appealing. That comes from very wide pavilion facets and lots of crown height. They have wonderful charm which many people like, but they lack the brightness and fast scintillation produced by modern RBCs.


You asked about superideal cut diamonds. I am a big fan of Crafted by Infinity diamonds. After I saw some of them “live and in living sparkle” at a Meet the Cutter event in California, I knew that I wanted one. Now I have five of them.


Performance. Being a retired software engineer and Gemologist (GIA) 1989 I am blown away by the 3D optical precision in their physical facets and their virtual facets. They cut their own diamonds putting each one perfectly in-tune to produce the most fire and sharpest scintillation possible in modern round brilliant. They are so different than your average diamonds that you really must see them in-person to appreciate what this means. Once you have one for a week and keep seeing how it behaves and looks in all the places you live and work in you can never un-see it.


Inclusions. All CBI diamonds are eye clean. I personally like VS clarity but CBI vets the beginning crystals to be sure even their SI1 and SI2 diamonds are eye clean and there is no haziness or cloudiness.


Color. Here again I personally like high colors. But I have seen big CBI diamonds in J that look like other people’s Gs. There are scientific reasons for this, all having to do with cut quality.


Here is a video I took of my 2.79 F-VS1 CBI in our bathroom at night. I know videos don’t do them justice but I you can see how vivid the rainbow flashes are here.

Hmmm, looks much better on my new Samsung tablet and phone, not so good on my old 27" monitor.


While I bought all five of mine through Wink at High Performance Diamonds (their online retail seller) CBI diamonds are also sold in showrooms across the world where you can view them with your own eyes. That is a nice advantage if you’re near any of them because you can pick any CBIs and they will bring those in for you. Here is a list of showrooms. http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/web/locations/


HPD also has a See It to Believe It program where Wink will send you the diamond as well as ASET, Idealscope and diamond tools, so you can compare it to anything else. You can click on the “See in your home” button on HPDs website to arrange this. Wink offered to do this for my latest purchase, but I said that it was not necessary. Seeing a video and my having faith in the CBI brand was good enough to complete the sale.


I would also mention ACAs, which are superideal diamonds from Whiteflash. That is another great company with diamond owners who are very happy.


Hope this helps.

 

[HappyNewLife]

Thanks for the tag @rockysalamander!

My previous non-ACA and current diamond (I/VS2 ACA) performed very differently. First of all, the size difference is huge. I went from 1.7 to 2.9+ carats, so of course they look vastly different. But also, my previous ring was a 60/60 diamond and there really was no fire. I have found after staring at my ring for the past 4 months non-stop that the ACA is just a magical thing. Sure, there are times when the diamond is just a dud - when there's nothing but yellow lamp lighting in my bedroom or when it's too dark. But otherwise this sucker sparkles and throws fire and blinds the HELL out of my wife when she sits across from me (drives her nuts, hahahah. I love it.... bahahhaha).

Clarity is a thing that's (IMO) personal - I have shi* vision up close, so a SI2 would look eye-clean to me, lol. I've seen VS2 ACA's on PS where I could see specks, and I know of one PSer who traded in her VS2 ACA for one with higher clarity. You could always get an eye-clean SI1 and inspect it and return it if it bothers you. WF's customer service is excellent.

Color - well, I thought I was color sensitive. I had an H once that bothered me, and after that I stuck to G or higher. But my "I" is white as can be to me. I recently bought J ACA studs (tiny) and I love them. Again, it's a personal thing. As I get older I love the creamier diamonds over the stark white ones (except in @cflutist's case. - YUM!). I would love a J or K ACA to make a 3-stone ring in yellow with some day when $ falls out of a tree.

anywho, I'll dig up my video that shows the sparkle show in full effect

GL!

 

[HappyNewLife]

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[the_mother_thing]

@the_mother_thing I have no idea which is which! One is an ACA but the other is also AGS 0 or 1 at the most, also very well cut. They all had certs, it's pretty surprising that you didn't get them since they were sent along with the consignment. I actually miss the ring, it was so comfy!

Thanks so much for the feedback on the other sidestone; that may explain why my eyes are troubled discerning the difference between the two. I have not seen that many well cut RBs to really know what to look for in terms of differences to set one apart from the other. And yes, it is a very comfortable ring; you did well when having it made!

On the certs, I just checked back in my records, and saw that I emailed Grace about the missing stone certs after I received the ring without them, and she never responded. I had a lot going on at that time as I was preparing to move 2 months later, so it slipped my mind to follow up with her again for them. I wonder if she still has them in her files; I may reach back out to see because I would like to have those vs. just screen shots I took of the two internet reports. And the only reason I was able to get those was because 2 of the report #s were listed in David Atlas’ presale report, thankfully.

 

[AdaBeta27]

Uncerted diamond recut to H&A by Brian Gavin. It was graded M VVS1 by a gemologist when I bought it but it doesn't have a lab report. It's a little over 1ct after the recut. It was in the 6.9mm and 1.12ct range before. The recut improved its apparent face-up color. The tint from the side is still the same. L and M are a pleasant pale yellow color. (see photos attached)

You said you're not color sensitive. So probably a superideal J in the 6.5mm - 7mm diameter range won't bother you too much much as far as tint is concerned. Your best bet is to go look at some someplace. It's true that warmer diamonds are more chameleon in different lights. My M can look real white outdoors, but it looks light yellow in the Staples and Lowe's lighting. I am one of the few here on Pricescope who actually likes warmer color diamonds cut as modern ideal H&A RB. There is a color contrast between the pale yellow of this center diamond and the white baguettes in the mounting. But there's a lot of historical precedent for doing that. I've seem many vintage L/M center diamonds set in a platinum mounting with a colorless baguette on each side. I'd estimate most of those were '30s or '40s rings.

Clarity is something I can really compromise on. My GOG AGS000 ISEE-whatever superideal H&A F SI2 is not completely eyeclean all of the time. It has a small dark garnet colored crystal under the table. It's in the pavilion, the bottom half of the pavilion, and you can see that speck up close with the unaided eye if you tilt the diamond a certain way and move it around. The is one viewing angle that makes it stand out. It is sometimes visible in office lighting since it's almost dead enter in the diamond. But it's very small. And the rest of the diamond is completely transparent and eye clean. And superbly cut, of course. But that one teeny speck literally made that diamond cost 1/2 of what it would have cost had it been a F VS1.

People make WAY too much fuss over "eyeclean." I think you're always better off, for light performance and budget, to pick a diamond that has a crystal or two vs. clouds or twinning wisps, or graining, or anything else that can adversely affect transparency, brilliance, or light reflection. So what if the diamond has a discrete speck in it? Nobody else can see it unless you let them scrutinize your stone. If it's out under the star faceting vs. in the table, most people aren't ever going to see it at all. Even my crystal under the table, I wore the ring 2-3 days before I ever saw that inclusion. Once I saw it, it became forever easy for me to pick out. But it doesn't bother me. I think the older one gets, the less importance "mind clean" and 100% eyeclean have. Another thing that convinced me that clarity is not so important is the number of times I've asked to look at a pretty diamond in a pawn shop or estate jewelry counter, only to see that it's an I1 at best but was cut decently. I no longer obsess over clarity. You are free to set your own priorities, lol.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Thank you so much @HappyNewLife & @cflutist for sharing your ring videos! They are so very beautiful, and I have a feeling I’m gonna end up with (a new) one in the not-to-distant future. I love my OEC solitaire, but I could also see putting her in the middle of a couple of other loose OECs I have stashed for a three stone, and getting the I/SI diamond for a stellar solitaire. I was originally thinking that IF I do this, I’d go for 1-1.25ct, but if I just aim for the same mm size as my OEC (7mm), I can maybe set it in my CvB Abby setting ... which would somewhat offset the cost of going a little bigger than I originally thought since I wouldn’t need a new setting for it ... makes sense, right? (I know, I know ... I’d need a new three stone setting for the OEC, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.) Options are a good thing.

Knowing the diamonds in the three stone I have/posted above are J/Ks, and that they still face up very white to me, I do think I would be comfortable going that ‘low’ in color again, so that gives me a little more wiggle room in the search unless going with that larger a stone would make the color much more apparent, in which case, I’d probably stick with no lower than a J. And I have more comfort with the clarity concerns given what you all have shared. I don’t have eagle eyes so if it’s an eye clean SI1, again, that’s just more wiggle room in the search. @cflutist : You said you prefer VS2 over SI, but that the SI’s are eye clean from HPD. May I ask why it is that you prefer the VS then? Is it a mind clean thing? Just trying to understand what - if anything - you see that makes you prefer that clarity.

I have a feeling it would definitely come down to either WF or HPD. After reading so many wonderful reviews for both, I know I would be in great hands and end up with a fab diamond either way. Thanks so much - again - for the feedback & expertise! As well as @rockysalamander for tagging the right gurus to help with my questions. When I’m ready to kick off the search, I’ll definitely circle back. I’m thinking later this spring/early summer most likely/hopefully.

 

[m-2-b]

I'm a superideal convert to WF ACA's. My personal preference is for at least I color/VS clarity diamonds from WF. Here's an old pic of my ACA collection:

 

[the_mother_thing]

@AdaBeta27 I totally feel ya on the eye/mind clean thing. First off - ‘mind clean’ for me means I pay cash vs adding debt to make the purchase. And eye clean for mean means largely no carbon. I am probably less stringent than others on clarity, but that said, if I am paying a ‘premium’ price, I want a ‘premium’ diamond.

And your recut is just beautiful! I would be so worried about the risk to go that route myself, but am glad you had great results!

 

[the_mother_thing]

@m-2-b your diamonds are just breathtaking! Color me jelly nelly!

 

[cflutist]

@the_mother_thing

So why do I prefer VS1 over SI1

In the past I had a 1.50 F-VS1 marquise (now in RHR) and a 2.05 D-VS2 oval that I traded in for a 3.01 F-SI1 pear that was my e-ring for 20+ years before I fell in love with CBI diamonds. I still have the pear and plan to wear it on my next cruise.

So in 2014 CBI cut to order a 2.21 F-SI1 for me. The diamond is gorgeous and eye clean. However I always felt that I settled when I had better clarity diamonds in the past.

Fast forward to 2017 when I asked @Wink for an estimate of a diamond tennis bracelet made of .50s CBI diamonds. The price ... a whopping $70k!. So I asked him about a 2.79 F-VS1 that was available. That is a favorite combo for me at a reasonable price and is a mind clean stone. The AGS report was dated on our 20th anniversary so I knew that I had to buy this diamond. This time I went for quality over quantity because I already had a 3ct pear.
I wanted to trade in the 2.21 for a 100% credit towards the new stone, but my dear hubby wanted me to keep it so I followed his wishes. I just love HPD Symphonie that resulted.

Now I had two very similar rings. PSers suggested that I get a 3-stone ring so I bought a .53 F-VS1 and a .53 F-VS2 CBI that are within .01mm of each other and had the same Crown and Pavilion angles, a pair matched in heaven. The resulting HPD Trilogie was just as I wanted it ... a combo of BGD and Vatche, but without the struts across the side stones. All 3 culets are visible making the ring easy to clean.

Then I saw a 2.31 Q-VVS2 CBI that intrigued me, a warmer diamond that was a VVS that was affordable. There is only one tiny cloud on the entire plot. After some indecision, I decided to embrace it for what it is, a superideal cut warm colored diamond. The diamond will be set in my very first halo. I am excited to venture outside my comfort zone of colorless diamonds and non-halo rings.

So bottom line, although SI1 was eye clean I really wanted a VS1 mind clean diamond this time.

 

[marcy]

I am a fan of super ideal cut. My ering is an ACA 1.52 F VS1. I have F Si1 studs (1/2 carat each) and a F Si1 .76 CBI pendant.

As mentioned above they look great in stores like Lowes (about the only reason my husband can drag me in to a hardware store). In sunlight I see a lot of rainbows and in low light they really sparkle. Office lighting I see white light mostly.

I think Si1 diamonds that are eye clean are a good bargain but for my ring I wanted at least VS2. Mostly because if I see an inclusion once then I am always looking for it. I would trust both WF or HPD's opinion of eye clean though.

As for color I definitely prefer colorless diamonds. I really like the iciness of them.

Here are a few pictures. Note the pendant picture was taken by HPD.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I have had the pleasure of seeing some top ideal cut H&A stones from ACA, GOG, BGD and CBI. All I can say is they are all beautiful !

 

[Dancing Fire]

 

[the_mother_thing]

@cflutist Thank you for sharing your rationale for clarity.

@marcy Thanks for sharing your beautiful collection and providing your perspective as well. All of this is so very helpful!

@Dancing Fire Thank you for your input as well. It helps hearing that the options I’m considering are all great choices from someone who’s seen diamonds from each and further reinforces that I am on the right path.


Another question I have for anyone who can answer - how ‘far off’ are WF’s expert selection diamonds from the ACAs? I read their website that they perhaps just missed ACA designation, but are still outstanding performers. Does anyone have/had a WF-ES diamond? Do you feel it was a good buy and balance between getting near-ACA performance for your budget? Did you have regrets and later upgrade to an ACA/CBI/etc anyway? And if so, was it because you truly felt it under-performed your expectations or was it more a ‘mind clean’ issue of just having that super-ideal ACA/CBI/etc. brand?

I perused a few ESs online, and while I can see that the ACAs clearly have more distinct patterning, and they are gorgeous, the H&A pattern are less a priority for me than the overall performance/fire/sparkle factor that I’ll see day to day because I really don’t have the time to scrutinize my diamond to see H&A throughout the day; rather, I want to look down periodically while I’m working and see pretty sparkle, some fire when I’m out and about places, driving, etc. A few ESs I looked at have solid HCA scores and ASET/IdealScope images so I don’t feel I’d be settling or getting a dud at all. But something @diamondseeker2006 mentioned upthread that resonated with me was about expectations and what people usually see when they get their diamonds and wear them day-to-day, and it really stuck with me. I’m not the ‘average’ diamond (maul) shopper, but I’m also not the most ‘discerning’ buyer either - just keeping it real/honest. But my frugal side also doesn’t want to pay for more than I know I’ll reasonably see/enjoy/appreciate either.

So all that to say - I’m *thinking* perhaps going the WF ES option might be a good balance/compromise for me to get a nice sized, well-performing diamond in a price range that IS ‘mind clean’ for me, and am curious to hear if others had similar feelings/priorities when buying. The more I read and look online at diamonds to get an idea of what is available in different price ranges, the more I realize I really do want to stick to something about the same size I have now (~7mm) or a smidge bigger (7.4 max). Anything less just doesn’t make sense since I have the three stone with RB great performers. So it’s almost a “go big or stay home” dilemma to me. But to go 7mm or slightly bigger in an ACA/CBI with a color & clarity tolerance I know I can accept likely puts me in a price range that I’m not sure I’d feel ‘mind clean’ spending ... Would I LOVE the ACA/CBI? I’m sure ... but do I really & truly need it - or more importantly would I really SEE & appreciate it ... I’m genuinely not so sure.

Typing that out, I’m sure it sounds as though I’ve convinced myself ES is the way to go, but I truly do want to hear others’ thoughts/experiences with them before I make up my mind either way.

 

[the_mother_thing]

To further illustrate my thought process, here is a WF-ES that I found as an example that ticks pretty much all my boxes AND is offered at a price that would leave me “mind clean” if I bought it. It’s <2 HCA and the IS & ASET look good *to me* save for that one spot in the ASET’s 8:00 position which could be covered a smidge by the setting (I’d probably go semi-bezel). And even if it isn’t, given the diamond is VERY clean (clarity wise), it’s a unique ‘identifier’ if you will that (if I bought it) would tell me “this is MY diamond and I can tell because ....” so while performance-wise, it is probably considered a ‘con’, I could/would be okay with it if everything else about it ticks my boxes.

I know folks on here would scrutinize the images probably far more than I would/will, and if you see something that you think would make this diamond NOT a great performer (granted, not ACA/CBI standard but just shy), please do tell/show me. I don’t have a lot of experience with the IS/ASET images so there could be something that makes you say “whooooaa” that I just don’t know to look for.

 

[the_mother_thing]

And below is the most comparable ACA I could find to the diamond above specs-wise; the only difference I see is this one is 1 color grade higher and .01ctw bigger - neither of which I think my eyes would discern the difference. There is a $2800 price difference. I’m NOT saying it’s not worth it; I just don’t know enough to discern the difference, and hope someone here CAN show me because that’s what I hope to understand. Because if that one issue in the above-stone’s ASET is it, then to me, this is a no-brainer. But I don’t know what I don’t know.

 

[ringo865]

Whiteflash expert selection stone are slalso AGS 000 (including ideal light performance). I would consider one, as they are included in their upgradability policy.

If you are down to a choice between an ACA and an ES, get a WF rep to pull both and compare them side by side for you. They'll send photo/video, too. Also ask what differences they see between them, and what made the ES not eligible for ACA.

I* believe that the WF ES stones are still going to be better than 90% of what "normal" people wear. (and you could still trade in for an ACA, if you want, later)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Look at premium select as well. Some are hard to tell from ACAs. In the case of both ES and PS, every stone is different, so yes, some I would be happy with and probably could not tell apart from an ACA, others I would not buy. So that would be a stone by stone evaluation.

My preference for VS+ is certainly more of a mind clean issue than it is having super visual skills, which I do not! It is a balancing of specs for me. If I am buying a top quality diamond, I prefer all the specs to be very good. So I even have H VS2's for my WF ACA stud earrings. I wouldn't have minded I color for those, but I found the best matches in H and they fit in my budget. I didn't want to go larger or else I definitely would have dropped to I color. Whiter stones in combination with top cut are simply brighter. My ideal for a ring stone would be cflutist's F VS1, but to balance the size, color, and clarity I'd want, G VS1 (or maybe VS2) would be what I'd probably get (and have had before in a H&A ring stone).

Like clflutist, also, I happen to have an O VVS AVR that I haven't set yet. Still very beautiful because of the cut, but it needs to be set the right way to compliment the color. The price premium for VVS is less in low color stones than it is for higher colors.

Threads like this kill me. It's making me want another H&A diamond!!!!

 

[the_mother_thing]

So I had a chat with the hubs about it this morning, annnnd he has given me a tentative ‘green light’ to move forward (tentative being he wants to look my choice over thoroughly himself as well). Have I mentioned how much I LOVE that man ... for so many more reasons than just this, but ya know ...

I don’t want to post a new thread and draw attention to the specific ES diamond I posted above before I can put it on hold, so if I can get some feedback on the images and thoughts on the comparison (let me know if more details are needed), I would be soooo appreciative, as we may pull the trigger sooner than I was anticipating.

So @diamondseeker2006 @cflutist @Dancing Fire @marcy @m-2-b @ringo865 and anyone else who happens to be viewing the thread ... please let me know your thoughts on the ES images above especially compared to those of the ACA. As an FYI, both stones are VS1 clarity, with the ES’s plot below for reference. Also, if anyone has a specific WF salesperson they like/have dealt with, let me know as I’ll probably call them today to put it on hold.

Thanks so much!