Taaffeite as center stone for E-ring. Pricing help!!

[absolutanne]

My fiance and I have decided to go into a very unconventional route to an engagement ring. He has given me the liberty to design my own and have this ring as THE engagement ring. It''ll ruin the surprise of the ring, I know, but he knows that if he chooses something I do not like, I will not wear it. So since I do not agree with the cost to rarity ratio of diamonds and its overabundance, every woman in the western hemisphere and japan has a diamond as an engagement ring, I want a taaffeite to be my center piece.

THis is the stone one of my jewelers sent to me. It is a 3ct round brilliant, jewelry quality taaffeite and he will cut it down to a 1.7 ct asscher to me. My question is do I, as a customer, have to purchase the entire 3 ct stone + pay the cost to cut it? or will he cut it to an asscher and I will be charged the $/ct amount of that stone?

He listed $8200 for a beautiful 1.7 ct Taaffeite. This is not including the side stone baguettes + the platinum setting. Is this too expensive for what it''s worth? I am working with 2 other jewelers. So we are shopping around.

Please tell me if this is an overpriced stone?

$ 7200 as is, $8200 if cut into 1.7 ct asscher.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/23/2008 11:12:47 AM
Author:absolutanne
My fiance and I have decided to go into a very unconventional route to an engagement ring. He has given me the liberty to design my own and have this ring as THE engagement ring. It'll ruin the surprise of the ring, I know, but he knows that if he chooses something I do not like, I will not wear it. So since I do not agree with the cost to rarity ratio of diamonds and its overabundance, every woman in the western hemisphere and japan has a diamond as an engagement ring, I want a taaffeite to be my center piece.

THis is the stone one of my jewelers sent to me. It is a 3ct round brilliant, jewelry quality taaffeite and he will cut it down to a 1.7 ct asscher to me. My question is do I, as a customer, have to purchase the entire 3 ct stone + pay the cost to cut it? or will he cut it to an asscher and I will be charged the $/ct amount of that stone?

He listed $8200 for a beautiful 1.7 ct Taaffeite. This is not including the side stone baguettes + the platinum setting. Is this too expensive for what it's worth? I am working with 2 other jewelers. So we are shopping around.

Please tell me if this is an overpriced stone?

$ 7200 as is, $8200 if cut into 1.7 ct asscher.

First of all because of the extreme rarity of taaffeite, I would never cut one down, especially by that much. Secondly, it's only really valued because of it's rarity, and not necessarily it's beauty. I was just reading some gemologists' perspective of taaeffite, and they all agreed that it's not a very attractive stone. You can find stones in the hundreds of dollars that look like taaffeite. If you're a very serious gem collector, or a museum, then I can see having taaffeite in your possession, but I wouldn't want it for an ering. I'm not even sure it's even durable enough to have in an ering. While I agree with you that it's a nice idea to be different and to not get a diamond, what about a rare colored sapphire (very durable as well) or a ruby?

Multicolour.com has some taaefite pieces, and you can price compare. I would never ever in a million years cut that stone down. It would be a travesty since it's so rare.

Is there another particular reason you want a taaffeite over the zillions of other stones to choose from?

Also for $8200, you can get one heck of an ering with a great setting included. That's a great budget that I would use much differently.

 

[laurel25]

I looked up the MOHS hardness and it''s rated an 8 - 8.5, so while technically hard enough, it would need to be babied some to be sure it didn''t get chipped or anything. Just something for you to consider if you want to go ahead with this stone. This won''t be a ring that you can wear 24/7.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

I agree about the hardness (er, softness?) of the stone - most in that range aren''t recommended for erings, and if they''re done anyway, they''re definitely not recommended for everyday wear.

I DEFINITELY would not cut that stone down!!! It''s got a beautiful cut already, and if it''s as rare as TL said (must be, judging by the price), I wouldn''t touch it.

Since you''re against diamonds, I''d suggest looking for a sapphire, which are next on the hardness scale. You can get an excellent stone plus setting for the budget you''ve got for that stone. One suggestion is Jeff White, and if you look around here for only a short time, you''ll find plenty of other vendors. If you''re not willing to wait for one to be sourced, try something like the Natural Sapphire Company. They have lots of options and various colors, shapes, etc. Their cuts aren''t usually perfect, so you could find a large enough one on their site, which is pretty reasonably priced, and then have it cut how you want it. Also, if the color of the stone you posted is what you''re after, you''ll probably find even better prices since it''s not a highly demanded color.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Just to answer one of your original questions though, I think the way it usually works is you buy the stone in its original form, no matter what your plans are for it. Then you must pay for the recutting as well. They''re not going to give you a break in the price when they already have a beautiful stone there, even though you plan to shave some of it off.

I don''t think the stone is worth it. It sounds very rare, therefore makes sense to be this expensive. But based on your reasoning for not having a diamond, there are lots of other stones to be found for MUCH cheaper and just as beautiful. Put some of that money towards the side stones and setting!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Posted this on your Rockytalky thread too...

Nice taaffeite! We don't even get to study them in gemology school, because they're so rare and expensive--sad, I know. I would not cut that stone. I'd keep as much weight on it as possible.

Durability is ok, because it's 8-8.5 mohs and no cleavage issues--fairly tough stone like chrysoberyl.

Do you like the desaturated color of taaffeite?(it can be much more saturated albeit more rare and expensive) With your budget, there are many other unconventional stones out there. Do you want it solely for the rarity? I'm with the others about buying stones as investments--even taaffeite. If it's going to be your permanent e-ring, then you don't plan on selling it. If you're looking at it as a collector stone, that's different--I certainly understand that.

But, if you like the hue, and it's meaningful for you, then yah! I just wouldn't cut it down to 1.7.



eta: I don't think it's overpriced--colored gems vary so much, and with its rarity--that's the deal.

 

[T L]

You want to know how rare taeefite it? According to Pala, there''s only 50 known Taeefites that have been positively identified on the EARTH!! In that case, I think I would keep it in a very safe secure place where it wouldn''t get chipped or even breathed upon. I wouldn''t wear it in a ring, much less cut it down.

Lavender spinels are often mistaken for taeffites, and that''s another option for you, although not as durable for a 24/7 ering, albeit a lot less expensive.

 

[absolutanne]

Wow thank you for all your comments! I should reveal some background about myself. I am not a gem collector and I don''t own alot of jewelry. The very few pieces that I do wear have alot of sentimental value to it. The reason I wanted taaffeite is because of yes, its rarity and also its hardness can be used as jewelry. I love the light mauve lavender color that it has, very neutral which is a quality I like in my e-ring. Sapphires are lovely yes, but I''m not fond of bold colored stones. I wear alot clothes that are of neutrals: gray, beige, black, gold, pastels. Often solids. So I wanted my ering to conform to it.

If I were to buy this stone as is, it would be a solitaire and I probably will not have side stones. Because it will be beyond my fiance''s budget. You all have a point, as one of the rarest stone in the world, why in the world would i want to cut it?! That''s because I''m not a collector. But I can see it differently now. I think the stone is gorgeous but beauty is different to everyone.

What would be other alternatives to taaffeite that would have similar properties as taaffeite?

 

[absolutanne]

So there seems to be a large consensus against cutting this stone. Since I do not know much about the industry, what would be a great stone that would have a more saturated color without being too bold like a blue sapphire or ruby? Again, I look for neutrality.

Date: 10/23/2008 2:50:02 PM
Author: coatimundi
Posted this on your Rockytalky thread too...

Nice taaffeite! We don''t even get to study them in gemology school, because they''re so rare and expensive--sad, I know. I would not cut that stone. I''d keep as much weight on it as possible.

Durability is ok, because it''s 8-8.5 mohs and no cleavage issues--fairly tough stone like chrysoberyl.

Do you like the desaturated color of taaffeite?(it can be much more saturated albeit more rare and expensive) With your budget, there are many other unconventional stones out there. Do you want it solely for the rarity? I''m with the others about buying stones as investments--even taaffeite. If it''s going to be your permanent e-ring, then you don''t plan on selling it. If you''re looking at it as a collector stone, that''s different--I certainly understand that.

But, if you like the hue, and it''s meaningful for you, then yah! I just wouldn''t cut it down to 1.7.



eta: I don''t think it''s overpriced--colored gems vary so much, and with its rarity--that''s the deal.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 10/23/2008 3:31:27 PM
Author: absolutanne


So there seems to be a large consensus against cutting this stone. Since I do not know much about the industry, what would be a great stone that would have a more saturated color without being too bold like a blue sapphire or ruby? Again, I look for neutrality.

You''ve got to do some more research then on your own first. Sapphires come in all kinds of colors, many of them fairly neutral! Spinels are another great choice that come in a large assortment of colors, many of them lighter purples, blues, and grays.

I suggest starting out at the top of this forum, and see the vendor list. Start perusing their websites and read up on the stones you find.

Start with Sapphires and Spinels, you''ll be surprised at how many colors they come in!

 

[neatfreak]

Here is a great example of a light spinel from custom cutter Dan Stair (who is fabulous BTW!):

http://www.customgemstones.com/SPINEL/sp1011.html


My asscher sapphire is from custom cutter Jeff White. Check out his website too, and you can give him a call, tell him what colors you like, and he can see if he has rough to cut you exactly what you want! Luckily, the less saturated colors are often less expensive meaning you could get something wonderful within your budget:

http://www.whitesgems.com/

 

[T L]

There are spinels with that mauve lavender color, in fact, taeefite used to be mistaken for spinel until it was identified to be a new species of gemstone. For $8200, you can get the greatest mauve spinel of your life, and a ring with accent stones galore. Or, you can get an inexpensive lavender mauve spinel e-ring, and save the extra cash for a nestegg. Definitely get in touch with some of the vendors listed in Pricescope. Your request is not a difficult one to find a stone that color, and I woudn't flinch in recutting a spinel. I'm sure whatever stone you decide on, it will be lovely and make you very happy.

Congratulations on your engagement by the way!

I apologize if I made you think I thought the taeffite you picked out was not attractive. It is, but for the few people that have seen taeefites in person, they did not think it was an attractive stone overall. The stone might look better in the picture than real life due to ideal lighting and other camera tricks. I've also seen many tourmalines that color as well.

Also sapphires come in so many colors, there are gorgeous very subtle hues in padpradscha sapphires for example. There are subtle lavender sapphires as well.

 

[coatimundi_org]

I recently saw a beautiful unheated light violet Sri Lankan sapphire at a gem show. It was incredibly lively and did not have the potent saturation of some violet sapphires. I love to collect highly saturated stones, but I love to wear stones with less saturation-so I'm with ya!

Does it have to be mauve?

If mauve is it--color change garnets are rare and beautiful--some of them have a mauvey component.

What about orangeish pink?--padparadscha sapphires are rare and utterly beautiful.

If you like pale bluish green, vanadium bearing chrysoberyl makes an outstanding ring gem.

Like the others have said, spinels and corundum come in a variety of colors and saturation levels.

Many choices for you! What are your favorite hues?

Oh, and if it's an asscher you want, I'd ring Jeff White, and see what he's got in the colors you like--he could also try to source it for you. I've called him many times now, about a certain stone, and he's just great. He cuts a stupendous asscher. eta--just saw Neatfreak already stated this!

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

I agree about looking at vendors, esp. Jeff White and his asschers - they look so beautiful! And that Dan Stair spinel neatfreak posted is gorgeous!!

Do some research because like everyone has said, sapphires and spinels (and others) are not just in bold colors. They come in all shades and saturations, and the more neutral ones are less expensive anyway because most people want bold. So you could end up with a great stone. (And I think padparadscha sapphires are gorgeous!)

I know you''re mentioning recutting anyway, so I just thought I''d throw these in while I had a minute... not great cuts, but the prices are good enough that you can get them at a good price then get it recut how you want... just a thought. (PS I''m not sure how large the stone you posted is, based on its carat weight and density, so these may or may not be in your range...)

Unique colors:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Peach/Oval/stoneid=U149

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Orangish-Yellow/Cushion/stoneid=U293

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Orange/Cushion/stoneid=U270

Pads:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/Round/stoneid=PA2015

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/Oval/stoneid=PA2069

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/Oval/stoneid=PA2027

One last thought... white sapphires are very neutral!

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/White/Cushion/stoneid=U2384

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Looking at what I just posted compared to your stone picture, I think pale padparadscha stones are a great alternative for you.

 

[absolutanne]

UPDATE!

Fiance'' and I have decided to leave the gorgeous stone as is. We will have it sent to our jeweler so we can see it ourselves and make a final decision. I''m happy with setting the stone on platinum or palladium band as a solitaire. I took into account your concerns about cutting such a beautiful rare stone into smaller ones - a travesty it may be. Especially if it really is museum quality taaffeite. I will post pics once it''s all set!

Thanks!

 

[Upgradable]

I see your update. I was thinking of a platinum spinel. Here''s a really bad example of one, but the color is really neat. A more indepth search could come up with some spankin'' cool rough for Jeff White to cut. Ooooo.... I think I see an asscher in my future!!

platinum spinel

 

[T L]

How are you going to set it? Bezel or setting it in a halo very low, is probably a good alternative to keeping such a rare and valuable stone from getting chipped. I''d probably walk around with a glass case around my hand.

 

[absolutanne]

I love that color on the spinel. The main concern is, isn''t spinel much softer than a taaffeite? The hardness is around 5 or 6? Correct me if I am wrong. I didn''t realize sapphires come in various colors. Much more saturated than the taaffeite. I may be thinking of getting a sapphire asscher as my right hand ring!! You girls have enabled me!

You are right about walking around with a big glass case. I suppose a regular solitaire setting wouldn''t be enough. We will see.

Date: 10/25/2008 5:34:33 PM
Author: Upgradable
I see your update. I was thinking of a platinum spinel. Here''s a really bad example of one, but the color is really neat. A more indepth search could come up with some spankin'' cool rough for Jeff White to cut. Ooooo.... I think I see an asscher in my future!!


platinum spinel

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 10/26/2008 2:55:33 PM
Author: absolutanne
I love that color on the spinel. The main concern is, isn't spinel much softer than a taaffeite? The hardness is around 5 or 6? Correct me if I am wrong. I didn't realize sapphires come in various colors. Much more saturated than the taaffeite. I may be thinking of getting a sapphire asscher as my right hand ring!! You girls have enabled me!

You are right about walking around with a big glass case. I suppose a regular solitaire setting wouldn't be enough. We will see.

Date: 10/25/2008 5:34:33 PM

Author: Upgradable

I see your update. I was thinking of a platinum spinel. Here's a really bad example of one, but the color is really neat. A more indepth search could come up with some spankin' cool rough for Jeff White to cut. Ooooo.... I think I see an asscher in my future!!



platinum spinel

Correcting you...Spinel is just as hard as Taaffeite and depending on your source (of information, there seems to be little out there about taaffeite) maybe a titch harder.

 

[absolutanne]

Taaffeite is at 8.5 while the spinel is at 8. Ok, not much difference. I did learn that there are no cleavage planes in the Taaffeite, so it does not have a single point of shearing within the mineral. On the other hand diamonds have 4 planes of cleavage, spinels have one plane of cleavage. Still a noob about gems and jewelry but as an Engineer who's had 8 semesters of univ geology, cleavage means to me a shear point of the rock. Just another factoid about the unknown taaffeite.

[/quote]


Correcting you...Spinel is just as hard as Taaffeite and depending on your source (of information, there seems to be little out there about taaffeite) maybe a titch harder. [/quote]

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 10/26/2008 6:48:23 PM
Author: absolutanne
Taaffeite is at 8.5 while the spinel is at 8. Ok, not much difference. I did learn that there are no cleavage planes in the Taaffeite, so it does not have a single point of shearing within the mineral. On the other hand diamonds have 4 planes of cleavage, spinels have one plane of cleavage. Still a noob about gems and jewelry but as an Engineer who's had 8 semesters of univ geology, cleavage means to me a shear point of the rock. Just another factoid about the unknown taaffeite.

Correct

Spinel has one plane of indistinct cleavage--not often seen in gemstones, so it's pretty tough. Spinel and taaffeite are pretty close in that regard.

Taaffeite is a bit harder and tougher. I think it's cool that you want a taaffeite. Rare, different, durable and if you like the hue--sounds perfect for you. I'm SO GLAD that you are not cutting it. The heavier it stays, the rarer...

Just wear it carefully, and you'll be fine. Rare as it is, it should be enjoyed. I wear my diamond rings very carfully, because of those cleavage planes. They come off as soon as I get home.

I hope it all works out--can't wait to see photos!

eta: and do some research on its stability. I've read it's stable to chemicals and light, but I don't know if there is conclusive research about how it reacts to heat. Have them take extra care when setting it and when doing repairs if need be--just in case.

 

[T L]

My thing is that if you chip the spinel, okay you can get another one. It's not the end of the world. Try finding a replacement stone for Taeeffite (I hate spelling the name of this stone).

 

[absolutanne]

Thanks again Coatimundi! Yes, that''s right. I am leaving the stone as is. I was out of my mind when I said I wanted to cut it into an asscher. Perhaps an asscher sapphire is my next project!
The taaffeite does have the qualities I like in my e-ring: color, hardness, hue, and the plus of it being a very rare stone. Until I am married, I will carefully wear the ring but once I''m hitched, I will most likely wear a thin palladium band with engraving. The taaffeite will pop out of its house on special days.
You have a good point about reaction to heat. I will research it further.

I will most definitely show pictures once it''s set!

Date: 10/26/2008 7:08:18 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 10/26/2008 6:48:23 PM
Author: absolutanne
Taaffeite is at 8.5 while the spinel is at 8. Ok, not much difference. I did learn that there are no cleavage planes in the Taaffeite, so it does not have a single point of shearing within the mineral. On the other hand diamonds have 4 planes of cleavage, spinels have one plane of cleavage. Still a noob about gems and jewelry but as an Engineer who''s had 8 semesters of univ geology, cleavage means to me a shear point of the rock. Just another factoid about the unknown taaffeite.

Correct

Spinel has one plane of indistinct cleavage--not often seen in gemstones, so it''s pretty tough. Spinel and taaffeite are pretty close in that regard.

Taaffeite is a bit harder and tougher. I think it''s cool that you want a taaffeite. Rare, different, durable and if you like the hue--sounds perfect for you. I''m SO GLAD that you are not cutting it. The heavier it stays, the rarer...

Just wear it carefully, and you''ll be fine. Rare as it is, it should be enjoyed. I wear my diamond rings very carfully, because of those cleavage planes. They come off as soon as I get home.

I hope it all works out--can''t wait to see photos!

eta: and do some research on its stability. I''ve read it''s stable to chemicals and light, but I don''t know if there is conclusive research about how it reacts to heat. Have them take extra care when setting it and when doing repairs if need be--just in case.

 

[T L]

This is a first - a taeefite on ebay!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320302380894

The auction ended, but just for people that want to see another one and price compare. This one changes color. I''m not sure if it''s an authentic Taeffite (it should have a cert from a major gem lab in my estimation).

 

[absolutanne]

Wow I didn''t know they came with color changing abilities! Perhaps this one is really is one in a billion. Gorgeous stone when it turns pink-purplish.

Date: 10/27/2008 11:04:01 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
This is a first - a taeefite on ebay!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320302380894


The auction ended, but just for people that want to see another one and price compare. This one changes color. I''m not sure if it''s an authentic Taeffite (it should have a cert from a major gem lab in my estimation).

 

[absolutanne]

UPDATE!!

I''ve seen the taaffeite stone IRL it is absolutely gorgeous! I thought the color would be dull and desaturated from the picture but it is absolutely beautiful. It is a native cut that was really cut for brilliance. I can see hues of blue, orange, pink and white under lighting. Fiance'' and I are set on this stone and we will see it to be ready in 4 wks. The e-ring will be flanked with 2- 0.2ct pear shaped white sapphires on palladium band. At 3.3cts this baby is surely big. But just right on my finger.

 

[coatimundi_org]

YAY!!
Thanks for the update!

I cannot wait to see this finished ring--oh, it sounds so beautiful!

Very happy for you!

 

[T L]

Thanks for the update, and I'm absolutely thrilled you're in love with the stone. Please post LOTS and LOTS of pictures. Being that taeefite is so incredibly rare, it would be an absolute treat for all of us colored stone junkies to see it in different light sources, and at different angles. It's one of those stones you could donate to a museum like the Smithsonian and they would be thrilled to have it.

I'm so happy for you!!! Congratulations on your rare and wonderful bling!

 

[lavenderlill]

I love this stone! I was just amazed to hear from everyone how rare it is. How unusual is it for a stone this rare to pop up at a jeweler''s shop and then be offered to a client to be cut down? I would think collectors would be clamoring over it and it would be big news to the gem world. What does everyone think? Do surprising rarities pop up in the most unlikely of places? How lucky for you absolutanne. It makes your engagment ring so much more special.