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Surface Inclusion

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damo

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2003
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Are these worse than normal inclusions? Is there danger of them spreading or anything and are they acceptable on an SI1?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Where is the inclusion located?

Sometimes if its say along the girdle then some might say the stone may be prone to chipping if knocked around that section hard. But then you could just cover with a prong and be done with it.

Not too sure about surface inclusions elsewhere, hopefully experts can chime in.

Did find this on a website as GIA grading 'descriptions':

It had this to say about an SI2....
'Under no circumstances should inclusions break the top surface of the diamond a be visible when viewed in sunlight like you would a window to see if it is clean. '

So if this stone is an SI1..according to this site (silverstar jewelers with a GIA clarity chart and desc) it should not have visible surface inclusions, even in an SI2? Thoughts anyone?

I'd highly recommend insuring the stone regardless (esp if you are paying $20k+!) because then you have peace of mind in case *anything* happens.

 

damo

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2003
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47
does the GIA have a website where it state that and other criteria?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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You can check out www.gia.org though I don't know what they have on their site in the way of clarity charts and/or descriptions. This was just pulled from a jewelers website where they had a chart on the clarity grades and what their determination of what each one meant. The 'surface inclusion' sentence is what caught my eye.

Good luck!
 

damo

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2003
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thanks its nagging me as the stone i have has an inclusion, you cant see it with the naked eye but once you know where it is you can...does that make sense?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Yes because you know where to look so your eye automatically goes there!


Is this the Tiffany stone you are considering? I thought they really didn't sell SI stones?

See if they can find you another similar stone but without the surface inclusion? What do they say about it?

You can also take it to an independent appraiser to get it checked out.
 

damo

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2003
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hi, no not tiffany, this is a stone i've found through my dealer. love it, just the inclusion bothers me. have had it set - going back though - setting not quite right. we'll get there!

btw setting is tiffany 6 prong style
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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IS it graded? e.g was it graded SI1 by GIA? Then you should be fine...though you can do the appraisal as 2nd opinion.

Do you recall seeing the inclusion BEFORE it was pointed out to you? Chances are people won't see it due to the stone's sparkle (though you still didnt say where the inclusion is)..I have the hardest time picking out inclusions..white ones anyway.

 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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damo


Just a consumer here. As you say it is a surface inclusion, are you sure it is an inclusion and not a blemish. Is it three dimensional when looking under a 10x loupe?
 

mdx

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
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570
Damo
Its difficult to comment without looking at the stone but
it’s usually best to give a surface inclusion a miss particularly on the crown side. What is important is the shape of the inclusion and the material the inclusion is made. If its soft or a cavity you could have a problem even if its just under the surface. Its not uncommon for an overzealous grader to run a fine scriber across the surface to feel if it hooks then actually break the surface and open the cavity.
Ask your dealer to put the stone under a microscope and take a careful look at the edges if it’s broken the surface. If it looks like a cavity with very thin edges, then perhaps you should pass.An open inclusion will often get dirt in and look worse

Wayne
Melbourne Diamond Exchange Ltd
 

damo

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2003
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hi, thanks for all your replys.
its graded si1 by gia
the inclusion is on the crown but by the girdle, ie at the edge, pretty much covered by the prong.
i cant spot its untill i know where it is if you know what i mean.
i'll look at it under a scope i think, check if it actually breaks the surface.
if it breaks the surface can it stil be a gia si1???
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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Well it is a GIA SI1 and GIA are the top when it comes to assigning their grade. I have seen here where more than one gemologist/dealer agreed that a stone should not be given in their collective opinion a particular grade which GIA has assigned it but they also state that as GIA gave it that grade it is that particular GIA grade. If a stone was resubmitted to GIA I have heard that they will not change their mind, the grade it is given now will always be the grade they agree on. They make the rules that others are to stick by and so are always right.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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As Mara stated in her post that a site she found had a GIA chart which stated there was no way an inclusion should break the surface of the stone in a SI2, I am wondering if this information is correct. I am sure I have seen diamonds which are SI1 with surface breaking inclusions, although very slight and can only be seen with 10x magnification.

Can one of the professionals say, is this site giving out correct information?
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Mar 28, 2001
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6,272
The best advice is to really have a pro check it out for you before you commit 100% to it. Any advice being offered without seeing the stone personally is pure speculation. Remember ... the difference between an FL and an IF is a surface blemish(s). If that is the primary grader contributing to the SI1 grade then I wouldn't want to purchase it without personally inspecting it. If it is NOT the primary grader then it may be very minor and of no concern especially if it can be covered with a prong.

Peace,
Rhino
 

damo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
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I've spoken to my dealer about it somemore, he's very understanding and patient, he says that its a feather that comes to the surface. Is that the same thing?
FYI it will be covered with a prong.
Thanks
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Oct 30, 2002
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Your jeweler who is so understanding and patient is still trying to sell you this stone. He cannot be unbiased. You are not an expert, nor am I, and no one on here has seen the stone. Chances are you are looking at dropping a good amount of $ on this stone, what is another $100 or so to have an independent expert take a look to be SURE that you are getting a good stone? Take Rhino's advice and get it checked out IMO.

BTW a feather is an inclusion.

Good luck.

 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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I remember someone on this site said that a feather usually more times than not comes to the surface of a stone. Would this mean that an SI1 could easily be properly graded and still have a surface reaching feather?

If I remember correctly it was taught at GIA that a feather is usually surface reaching.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
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Sep 25, 2002
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A diamond can have a surface breaking feather and still be considered an SI stone.

It depends on the size, location, and visibility of the inclusion.

I just reviewed an emerald cut which had two surface breaking feathers and had received a report from the GIA as an SI2. They were minor size, breaking the surface in the crown-girdle area, and somewhat difficult to see with a 10x loupe.

I've seen SI1's with surface breaking feathers (on the crown) as well.
 

damo

Rough_Rock
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Jun 25, 2003
Messages
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Well thanks for all the advice. Just got back from seeing the final result all set and ready to go.
It looks amazing, the sparkle is something else. I asked to see it outside to see how it look - god, I was blown away! I needed sunglasses.
It was then I decided that I would keep the ring - A diamond should be an emotional purchase, a stone you love for someone you love. And boy love this stone!
So surface inclusion i cant see or not, I'm taking it!
Thanks for all of your advice
Damo
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Congrats! Love of the stone does not mean cold hard #'s....as I well know...good job on going with your eyes and it sounds as though the surface feather is not a huge deal in an SI after all...YAY.
Post pictures once you have them!
 
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