Suggestions on the best manufacturer of a custom setting (considering whiteflash)

[esumsea]

Hello Again everyone!

I have finally finished my custom setting design and am shopping around the design locally. I am considering going with Whiteflash because that is where I bought the diamond. Unfortunately, researching their settings I came across some disatisfied customers, mainly in this thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/conclusion-to-the-negative-experience-with-whiteflash.60727/.

I had a great experience buying the diamond from whiteflash, but am now leery about their custom work. Let me state that I am very picky and being that I designed the ring in Acad and have provided many isometrics and dimensions I expect the ring to look extremely close to that on my screen. The design is inspired by another I have seen in real life and everything I am asking for I have seen done. I have also been told that my design is executable by another jeweler. I have spent alot of time buying the diamond and designing the ring and expect excellent craftmanship.

Here is the question: Do you think whiteflash is capable of fine custom jewelery settings that will pass my discriminating standards?

Do you have someone else you may want to suggest?

Money is a factor, because I went over budget on the diamond, so please don''t suggest someone who''s name makes the cost prohibitive.

I have included two hand drawings to give you an idea. Obviously the CAD drawing are more detailed drawn in actual size (both 2D and 3D) with many dimensions and notes.

Thanks for your time. Any comments, suggestions etc. will be appreciated!

Kind Regards,
Mario

 

[esumsea]

No one has any input?

 

[erica k]

Interesting design! I love all the personalized details. It looks a bit hard-edged in the drawings, I''m not sure if that''s what you''re going for. I''m no expert in custom-design, but it seems like the auto-cad renderings are always a little different from the end results.

As for Whiteflash, have you shown them your drawings and asked them whether or not they can work with you and your expectations? Their customer service seems to be excellent in most cases, and I''ve seen quite a few satisfied custom jobs in the past few months.

Is Mart T of ERD expensive for custom work? He might be an option. I''m assuming you meant Leon and Mark Morrell were cost-prohibitive. I don''t know what a reasonable budget for excellent custom work is, but maybe others know of good craftspeople.

 

[iheartscience]

Well, I had a stellar experience going custom with Whiteflash. I also had an exact design in mind and Whiteflash executed it perfectly. However, I didn''t have my own CAD design, I just sent them photos of a ring I wanted with a few changes.

Also, if you read that entire thread you linked to, Whiteflash did everything they could to keep that poster happy. I believe they ended up giving that poster a discount that the poster requested. Some people just don''t want to be or can''t be made happy, and I think that poster was one of them. If you do more research on Pricescope regarding Whiteflash you''ll find more threads than you can count about stellar experiences there. No company is perfect, but Whiteflash always goes above and beyond to fix its mistakes.

As far as the actual design, I don''t mean to be discouraging, but since you''re not a jewelry designer, some of the things you have designed may not be possible. Plus it just seems highly unlikely that the finished ring will be exactly like the one you designed since you didn''t design it using the same jewelry program (or whatever it is jewelry companies use).

Also, is the ring for you or for your future fiancee? If it''s not for you, I would make sure your fiancee likes designs in that style. That style of design seems to be one that many men are attracted to, but it''s not necessarily the style that many women want. Again, not trying to be a negative Nelly, but I would hate for you to spend the money for that setting and then have your fiancee not like it.

 

[esumsea]

Date: 10/30/2007 9:37:17 PM
Author: thing2of2
Well, I had a stellar experience going custom with Whiteflash. I also had an exact design in mind and Whiteflash executed it perfectly. However, I didn''t have my own CAD design, I just sent them photos of a ring I wanted with a few changes.

Glad to hear that, I have read some good reports as well.

Also, if you read that entire thread you linked to, Whiteflash did everything they could to keep that poster happy. I believe they ended up giving that poster a discount that the poster requested. Some people just don''t want to be or can''t be made happy, and I think that poster was one of them. If you do more research on Pricescope regarding Whiteflash you''ll find more threads than you can count about stellar experiences there. No company is perfect, but Whiteflash always goes above and beyond to fix its mistakes.

Yeah, I guess to err is to be human
As far as the actual design, I don''t mean to be discouraging, but since you''re not a jewelry designer, some of the things you have designed may not be possible. Plus it just seems highly unlikely that the finished ring will be exactly like the one you designed since you didn''t design it using the same jewelry program (or whatever it is jewelry companies use).
I may not be a jeweler, but have taken this design to other jewelers and they say it is executable. Also, this is based on a ring that I have seen first hand.

Also, is the ring for you or for your future fiancee? If it''s not for you, I would make sure your fiancee likes designs in that style. That style of design seems to be one that many men are attracted to, but it''s not necessarily the style that many women want. Again, not trying to be a negative Nelly, but I would hate for you to spend the money for that setting and then have your fiancee not like it.

This ring was painstakingly designed by my girlfriend and I. It was a collaborative effort. I decided about 1 month into this process that I would include my girlfriend in the diamond and setting buying process and then "surprise" her with the date of the proposal. I did this because I had the same concerns you express. The desin I would come up with by myself would have been much different.
Thanks for your input!
Regards,
Mario

 

[esumsea]

 

[KtIceRN]

I have had WF do a few custom pieces for me and I have to say in the end I was/am 100% happy. Now I am not saying that everything went smoothly every time cause they are human and mistakes happen. But one thing I can guarantee is that they will do everything in your power to make your dream ring a reality. Just keep the communication open and you should be very happy with the results!

One quick question though, if these other jewelers said the design is doable how come you didn''t chose to go with them?

The design is really nice BTW! Good luck in you search.

 

[strmrdr]

find a great benchman close too you and meet in person.
Id give Bill Pearlman a call and see if he knows of someone in your area or have him broker the deal.
Personaly with your requirements and Id have simular ones I would have it done long distance as only a very last resort.
If your going long distance Wink's benchman may be able too pull it off.

 

[strmrdr]

Im going to repeat this 4 times...
You want a benchman not a designer for this project
You want a benchman not a designer for this project
You want a benchman not a designer for this project
You want a benchman not a designer for this project
Make that clear to who ever you contact.

 

[esumsea]

Date: 10/30/2007 11:09:41 PM
Author: KtIceRN
I have had WF do a few custom pieces for me and I have to say in the end I was/am 100% happy. Now I am not saying that everything went smoothly every time cause they are human and mistakes happen. But one thing I can guarantee is that they will do everything in your power to make your dream ring a reality. Just keep the communication open and you should be very happy with the results!
Very good to hear!
One quick question though, if these other jewelers said the design is doable how come you didn''t chose to go with them?
Because I bought the diamond from them so if they screw up and break the diamond they will replace it. Plus Whiteflash seems to be affordable. I have not chosen them yet, though. I am currently waiting to hear back from them.
The design is really nice BTW! Good luck in you search.
Thanks for the compliment and the well wishes. I will let everyone know how it goes.

 

[aljdewey]

I''ve done multiple custom projects with WF, and I''ve been exceedingly happy with the end results.

Keep in mind that collaboration is a PROCESS. That means give and take, back and forth, with patience and vision to get to the end result. If you aren''t up for that kind of relationship, don''t go custom.

It also means that bringing your vision to life will require a rough draft, reviewing, suggesting modifications/alterations, and an understanding that that''s NORMAL in custom. If you will be disappointed that every last detail isn''t fully understood or executed the first time out of the gate, don''t go custom.

I''ve done a pendant with WF; I''ve done earrings; I''ve done a custom e-ring. They were all collaborations. I reviewed the CADS and would say "I''d prefer the bezel to be thinner; I''d like the line of the basket to be shaped more like this........" When my e-ring was done and I reviewed the pictures, it appeared the prongs were bigger than I wanted. Brian assured me that they were much more minimal appearing in real life, but he suggested that I look at the piece in person before committing to changes. If I still wanted modifications, he''d have me send it back to polish them down a bit.

That''s what custom is; it''s working together to make the end product be the vision that you want. It''s not saying "why didn''t this come out exactly like I saw in my head on the first run" and thinking your jeweler failed.

As long as you and your jeweler are willing to work together back and forth with patience and a common goal of your happiness, you''ll be really thrilled with custom. WF is an excellent candidate for this because they really do want their clients to be happy with the final result.

 

[esumsea]

As always Storm, you bring something new to the equation. What is a benchman and how do they differ from a designer? The guy I am considering down here in Miami is always at his "bench" working (doing the actual work) when I come in. Is he a benchman? I will google Pearlman and contact him.

Who is Wink, by the way?

The reason I was considering whiteflash is because they offer a return policy and a breakage warranty since the diamond was purchase from them, but maybe it is best to keep it local.

As always your input is really appreciated!

Kind Regards,
Mario

 

[Pandora II]

If you are expecting every detail to be super-precise ie stipulating thickness of channels to 0.05 of a mm etc, you are probably setting yourself up to be disappointed.

Looking at your design I see you are wanting bead-setting in a channel, milgrain edge on the channel and very narrow channels. I had a channel setting as part of my design and the channels are much thicker than yours. If you want diamonds set into a channel you have to allow enough metal for them to be set safely and properly. If you just want a very thin raised edge you are probably better just having a normal pave setting.

Check out some threads for details on custom rings with milgrain edges - it seems to be one of the most common problems that the milgrain isn't straight, or the same on every part. How flexible are you on this kind of detail?

I agree with strmr than you definitely need a benchman not a designer. I didn't go with Leon for exactly that reason. I was a professional jewellery designer and knew I didn't need to pay for someone elses creative input. Designers like Leon will not work that way.

Definitely expect to have to compromise on certain aspects and try to ascertain your exact parameters with whoever takes the job before you begin. Also expect to have to have bits tweaked here and there to get what you are after.

I would recommend any of the PS vendors - above all, most of them will go to extremes to make sure that the end result is eventually what you want.

Good luck!

 

[esumsea]

Thanks for your input aljdewey,

I understand it is a process, but I have done alot of the work already. I have made CAD drawings both in 3d (though not as detailed as whiteflash''s) and 2d with all the dimensions and notes they would need to get the points across. Whiteflash has stopped sending out wax models, which I don''t understand because all the jewelers do it here locally, which may compound the problem, but I do understand that things may have to be refined, and would not consider it a failure unless in the end my ring is not realized. Remember I HAVE SEEN THIS RING, almost exactly as represented here, PERSONALLY. It can be done.

I think I have seen some of the custom jewelery you had whiteflash produce in researching them and so far, I have liked what I have seen.

Regards,
Mario

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/30/2007 11:55:29 PM
Author: esumsea
As always Storm, you bring something new to the equation. What is a benchman and how do they differ from a designer? The guy I am considering down here in Miami is always at his ''bench'' working (doing the actual work) when I come in. Is he a benchman? I will google Pearlman and contact him.

Who is Wink, by the way?

The reason I was considering whiteflash is because they offer a return policy and a breakage warranty since the diamond was purchase from them, but maybe it is best to keep it local.

As always your input is really appreciated!

Kind Regards,
Mario

A designer is someone who primarily designs rings and may also build them but its second to the design a benchman builds jewelery and also may do some designing.
It is really a difference in art and personality more than anything the designer designs while the benchman is a metalsmith.
A designer will tend to want too take over a project and make it their design where a benchman would take your design refine as needed and produce it.
http://www.winkjones.com
http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/http://www.pearlmansjewelery.com

 

[esumsea]

Date: 10/30/2007 11:59:12 PM
Author: Pandora II
If you are expecting every detail to be super-precise ie stipulating thickness of channels to 0.05 of a mm etc, you are probably setting yourself up to be disappointed.
Yes I expect some of the aspects of the ring to be precise. This is where quality comes in. Maybe one jeweler can get the thickness of the metal on either side of the channel to be .2 mm and others need .5. I have seen (in front of me) very detailed and finely crafted bead set channel with milgrain that was less than .2. That is why I wrote in the notes the question "What is the minimum this can be?" I have laid it out with very detailed drawing including fastedious notes and meticulous dimensioning (did I mention I studied architecture for 3 years and my GF is an architect?). If Whiteflash can''t do something, I want them to let me know BEFORE we begin. That way we can negotiate any compromises or I can decide they can''t do what I want. I am not asking the impossible. I went out, ascertained what was possible, and then incorporated it into my designs.
I agree with strmr than you definitely need a benchman not a designer. I didn''t go with Leon for exactly that reason. I was a professional jewellery designer and knew I didn''t need to pay for someone elses creative input. Designers like Leon do not work that way.
Again this benchman thing, I have to learn about this but I am begining to figure out why I would want one, mainly because I am the designer and I want someone to execute MY desgn.
Definitely expect to have to compromise on certain aspects and try to ascertain your exact parameters with whoever takes the job before you begin. Also expect to have to have bits tweaked here and there to get what you are after.
I understand this, but want to figure out the problems before hand, not after I have invested lots of time and money.

I would recommend any of the PS vendors - above all, most of them will go to extremes to make sure that the end result is eventually what you want.
Yeah, this forum seems to be a deterrant towards shoddy work. If a PS vendor screws up, the whole PS world will know about it. Traci at whiteflash said as much.
Good luck!
Thanks!

 

[esumsea]

Date: 10/31/2007 12:05:13 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 10/30/2007 11:55:29 PM
Author: esumsea
As always Storm, you bring something new to the equation. What is a benchman and how do they differ from a designer? The guy I am considering down here in Miami is always at his ''bench'' working (doing the actual work) when I come in. Is he a benchman? I will google Pearlman and contact him.

Who is Wink, by the way?

The reason I was considering whiteflash is because they offer a return policy and a breakage warranty since the diamond was purchase from them, but maybe it is best to keep it local.

As always your input is really appreciated!

Kind Regards,
Mario

A designer is someone who primarily designs rings and may also build them but its second to the design a benchman builds jewelery and also may do some designing.
It is really a difference in art and personality more than anything the designer designs while the benchman is a metalsmith.
A designer will tend to want too take over a project and make it their design where a benchman would take your design refine as needed and produce it.
http://www.winkjones.com
http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/http://www.pearlmansjewelery.com/

Ah, I get it. (It wasn''t too hard to suss out but sometimes I just love to have things spelled out for me. Yeah, I think the guy I am dealing with in MIA is a benchman. What I love about him is he said "anything you want is possible!" Though I know this is not true, he has already reassured me on some of the points I am concerned about. I will think twice about going long distance. But still, I am curious about whiteflash. I will check out the links. Thanks again Storm you rock! (pun intended

)

Regards,
Mario

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/30/2007 11:05:21 PM
Author: esumsea

I would love the chance too see this design laser cnc cut from rolled stock. Head would be seperate and welded on.
Dont know anyone that is doing it however.
The circles would join at the bottom of the ring of course.
yummy.

 

[esumsea]

Another question:
I know what paladium is but how does it compare to platinum as far as color, strength, etc?
Thanks!
Mario

 

[Pandora II]

A benchman is someone who executes a design without putting their own ideas into it. A designer will expect to have input into the finished item.

Definitely establish details in advance - I would probably ask to see examples of similar work before you start, especially with things like channel widths or milgraining.

By the way, are you sure you mean channel-setting? Channel set doesn't use beads - the edges of the diamonds are caught under the edges of the channels and there is space around and behind the stones. Pave can have a raised edge (ie milgrain) and the diamonds are set into holes and then metal is pulled up into beads to hold the stones.

Costwise, do you have a ballpark figure?

To give you a reference mark, my split-shank platinum setting was around the $3k mark.

Here's a picture of my cad

ETA - Not that many people work in palladium compared with other metals. It's slightly whiter, much much lighter (I prefer the weight of platinum) and will develop the same patina. I've heard that can discolour with soldering temps and is more brittle than platinum.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/31/2007 12:35:25 AM
Author: esumsea
Another question:
I know what paladium is but how does it compare to platinum as far as color, strength, etc?
Thanks!
Mario

Id go plat...
http://www.mjsajournal.org/features/0603/2.php is an interesting article.
http://www.stillwaterpalladium.com/jewelry_custom_earings.html
http://www.hooverandstrong.com/Tru-PDBrochure.pdf

 

[esumsea]

Thanks Storm and Pandora!

Storm I will look into the articles and then comment.
Pandora, that is a beautiful design. I am hoping to go under 2K (closer to 1.5 K) since there are fewer diamonds and less metal (my shank is 2.2 mm wide). I initially had a budget of $5-6 thousand for the shole thing and already paid $5360 on the diamond itself (a great investment).
Hopefully this is feasable, but considering the original designer wants $2300 for the ring and he has a B&M in Coconut Grove (a swanky part of town here) with large overhead, I assume I can get under the $2000 mark and close to $1500, hopefully.
Regards,
Mario

 

[Pandora II]

Hmm, I got a couple of quotes today on a simple basket setting for a 1ct rb with baguette sides and it was coming in between $3,500 and $2,400 (0.45ctw on the baguettes).

You might need to go for gold rather than platinum to stay under the $2k mark.

(My band is just under 3mm by the way.)

 

[esumsea]

Oh the humanity! We will see how this goes.

By the way, Storm, after reading the material you suggested, I moved closer to palladium.
Why would you stick with platinum? (God, over $1k and ounce! )
Anyways, sage friend, enlighten me once again. The only drawback is that I will have a hard time finding a jeweler who is experienced with palladium.

Regards,
Mario

 

[Pandora II]

Green Lake Jewellers Link in Seattle do Palladium settings and very nice custom work. Some people on PS have used them and been very happy.

 

[esumsea]

Thanks again Pandora!
I will check them out. Palladium seems to be the new platinum. ITs just as rare, white and strong, at least that is what I gather in my research. I am going to strongly consider it. I am going to do a search on it now. If I don''t find much (doubtfully) then maybe I will start another thread on the whole palladium vs. Platinum thing.

Regards,
Mario

 

[elmo]

Date: 10/31/2007 12:33:47 AM
Author: strmrdr
I would love the chance too see this design laser cnc cut from rolled stock. Head would be seperate and welded on.

Strm, I've wondered along similar lines if a different bit on the standard CNC milling machine used to cut wax molds could alternately be used to cut directly from rolled stock. Laser cut would probably need less finishing work...interesting idea.

Mario, I agree with what others here say about using platinum. The heft / density makes the piece feel good to wear. The majority of the cost is still in the labor I think, even at $1500/oz.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 10/31/2007 12:02:56 AM
Author: esumsea

I understand it is a process, but I have done alot of the work already. I have made CAD drawings both in 3d (though not as detailed as whiteflash's) and 2d with all the dimensions and notes they would need to get the points across.

Mario, the work you've done is great, and it helps more clearly define what you want. That said, it isn't a shortcut or substitution for them having to do the work themselves. They would still need to produce their own CADS, just as you would still have to draft your own blueprints if I hired you to build me a house and wouldn't accept my consumer-generated drawings.

Date: 10/31/2007 12:02:56 AM
Author: esumsea

Remember I HAVE SEEN THIS RING, almost exactly as represented here, PERSONALLY. It can be done.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it can be done. I do wonder, though....if you've seen this ring and you know where it comes from, why aren't you just going to whomever crafted the ring you saw since it's pretty clear that's what you want? Do you have some reason to think that creator wouldn't make the modifications you might want? Or is this just about cost?

There is a reason that people pay Leon the price they do for his designs. His claw prong work is exceptional, and the fact that he does them shows that yes, it can be done....but that doesn't mean everyone could do it.

 

[esumsea]

Date: 10/31/2007 11:42:15 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 10/31/2007 12:02:56 AM
Author: esumsea

I understand it is a process, but I have done alot of the work already. I have made CAD drawings both in 3d (though not as detailed as whiteflash''s) and 2d with all the dimensions and notes they would need to get the points across.

Mario, the work you''ve done is great, and it helps more clearly define what you want. That said, it isn''t a shortcut or substitution for them having to do the work themselves. They would still need to produce their own CADS, just as you would still have to draft your own blueprints if I hired you to build me a house and wouldn''t accept my consumer-generated drawings.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Yes I know they will have to do their own designs, I guess...

(reality bites)

Date: 10/31/2007 12:02:56 AM
Author: esumsea

Remember I HAVE SEEN THIS RING, almost exactly as represented here, PERSONALLY. It can be done.

I''m not disagreeing with you that it can be done. I do wonder, though....if you''ve seen this ring and you know where it comes from, why aren''t you just going to whomever crafted the ring you saw since it''s pretty clear that''s what you want? Do you have some reason to think that creator wouldn''t make the modifications you might want? Or is this just about cost?

There is a reason that people pay Leon the price they do for his designs. His claw prong work is exceptional, and the fact that he does them shows that yes, it can be done....but that doesn''t mean everyone could do it.

Yes, you speak the truth here. The guy who makes this ring (or a very close) quoted me $2600 before I asked for the window. I was hoping to pay alot less if I went to a local jeweler with less overhead, or on the net. Maybe he was giving me a great price, but since he does not know me from Adam, He had to be making enough money on his ring to turn a nice profit and cover his overhead. I don''t begrudge him that, but I am hoping for a better deal. If I find that I can''t I don''t know what I will do because $2600 in not an option. I have to go at $2000 or less. The ring is not that hard of a design. It can be cast or maybe CNC or laser cut, so hopefully another jeweler can accomplish my design.

Again, Many thanks for your input.
Regards,
Mario

Elmo,
Thanks for your input. When it comes to the whole weight thing, I really don''t care. In fact, I think lighter is preferable! The only thing I really care about is color, finsh, and durability.
Regards,
Mario

 

[aljdewey]

I can absolutely understand wanting to get the best price possible......completely. But I'd respectfully point out that the 'five hairs' worth of splitting' that you seem to want is exactly why the price escalates and why designers charge what they do, and if that's of paramount importance to you, you really should stick with the original.

If you want to compromise on the price, it's reasonable to realize that you might compromise a bit on the precision, too. Anything can be done if price isn't an issue, but most of us don't live in that reality. Most of us do have to work within budgets and compromise.

In my case, I went first to the designer whose piece inspired my e-ring design. I explained what modifications I wanted to see, and he (being a designer......goes back to what Storm referenced) seemed a bit insulted that I wanted any changes at all. He further suggested that my proposed modifications 'wouldn't look good/right'. It didn't stop there; he also suggested that since the setting cost would total nearly 1/3 the cost of the stone that I probably shouldn't go custom.

After having been summarily discouraged, I talked to Brian at Whiteflash. He said 'of course we can make what you want'....and they did. I'm sure the prongs look a bit more substantial than they would have from the designer himself......but that was something I was more than willing to live with, especially since I was able to get the ring I dreamed of for nearly half the cost.

That designer I spoke to does amazing work, and I've seen many of his pieces. They are incredibly delicate, and they are truly works of art. However, so is my WF e-ring.

If my e-ring was a violin: it's not a true Stradivarius, but it substantially feels like one in the overall; it captures the essence of it. If you're Ok with the notion of "almost Stradivarius", then custom will be a fine solution for you. If you want "Stradivarius", and "Stradivarius-like" won't be good enough, then you should go to the original designer.