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Studs have spent 72 hours soaking in Attack and posts are still stuck?

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 14, 2009
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Title kinda says it all.

Is there some sort of non-epoxy pearl cement that Attack won't work on? I've never not been able to get findings off within 24 hours... Should I just leave them for a few more days? Is there something else I could try that wouldn't damage the pearls?

Goal: Remove current posts and replace with findings with larger cups.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Aug 14, 2009
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22,351
I'll leave them soaking a few more days. Reading on another forum - seems like it can take up to a week.

Edit - Just nosed them gently with pliers and they slid right off. Short thread I guess :lol:
 

Beaders Secret

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Aug 2, 2020
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The natural enemy of epoxies is heat.

Some soften very quickly at not much more than body temp ( typically these are the quick setting 3 to 5 minute versions) The full strength editions need a bit more heat.

Water just off the boil, a few seconds (30’ish) of submersion and some pliers - it may need a couple of submersions before the glue releases it’s grip. This approach has never failed me in more years than I want to put a number to =)2

I wouldn’t use superglue if you paid me - for the following reasons.

Superglue has very poor shear strength - compared to epoxy. A knock or blow in shear, can easily break the bond.

The “normal” superglues including the Gels, have low gap filling ability, and strength relies on very smooth matching surfaces with low tolerances for unevennes. ( There are rubber modified Superglues but they are special purpose products that you don’t get on a shelf at the local shop)

Epoxies are a lot less brittle, and rather more flexible which makes for a more tolerant adhesion joint.

And lastly, Epoxy glue joints can be released with water, which avoids having to deal with solvents and other chemicals and the risks of handling them.
 

Pearlescence

Brilliant_Rock
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548
All glues work by creating a vacuum. Glues are not fillers and should never be required to fill a gap. And a pearl, properly set, won't shear. I've never had a setting fail since I switched from epoxy in exasperation about eight years ago. And we are setting many pearls every day. Properly. As you say, close fitting, smoothly matched surfaces.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Aug 14, 2009
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22,351
One of the issues with using premade findings (which I do) is that different sizes of pearl have different curvatures, and premade cups are shaped to fit one specific curvature, so of course premade findings aren’t able to bind surface/surface with multiple sizes of pearl. You get as close as you can - with different cup sizes - but it’s hardly ever dead on. The pin portion that enters the pearl drill hole - that, too, is almost never going to be a surface/surface bond.

So the glue/cement/epoxy/whatevs does wind up needing to act as a bit of a filler and bit of a shock absorber, just out of practicality, whether or not it’s ideal... Unless one uses findings with those tiny 2-2.5mm cups regardless of pearl size - which I personally don’t care for...

Would love brand recommendations if anyone’s willing to share? I’ve seen vigor recommended on another forum - is that a good choice?
 
Last edited:

Beaders Secret

Rough_Rock
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"All glues work by creating a vacuum."
Could you name just one(1) technical or scientific reference that affirms this theory?
What is the mechanism that generates this vacuum within a glue joint?

If glues work from the application of a vacuum - why don't they come apart in low pressure\space\inside a vacuum chamber?

Atmospheric pressure is approximately 14.7 psi give and take a little depending on the weather on the day - - How does glue generate a strength beyond that of the pressure differential between Zero Atmosphere and the 14.7 pounds of pressure per square inch around us?

"Glues are not fillers and should never be required to fill a gap"
Engineers regularly use glues to fill gaps on things as diverse as Buildings, cars, aircraft, even your mobile phones and Tablets. And then on a practical level and in the context of this forum - pearls are a product of a living organism the surface of a pearl is anything but smooth when carefully examined, and lets not forget that the drilled hole surface is considerably more coarse than the surface of a pearl. And all this comes before consideration of the variations between holes - posts and the curvature of caps versus the pearls surface. A successful bond has to navigate and encompass all these variable.

It is a testament to the scientists and chemical engineers who have created all the various glues that we have available to us, that glues can work so well even when used outside of their design parameters.

"I've never had a setting fail since I switched from epoxy in exasperation about eight years ago. And we are setting many pearls every day."
As any avid cartoon watcher can attest "Mr Magoo never had a car crash in his driving career"
Looking backwards is just as important as looking forwards. And as someone with extensive experience in handling repairs of pearl jewellery over many years, I can say that my experience is, that what might have been expedient for the person at an earlier point in time (which could whilst it was being made or an earlier repair) can often become the next repairers nightmare down the track.

@yssie Vigor is very good - another brand is Zap (they have three versions, from 5 - 15 & 30 min setting versions - and its hard to go past the perennial Araldite - but in saying that I "do" step past the quick setting version.
 

Beaders Secret

Rough_Rock
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Hello Pearlessence
Revert to Google?

I have over the years, read a lot of material relating to adhesives, It is a personal interest of mine driven in part from my work in handling jewellery repairs and Pearl production work.

In none of that material, is any reference to vacuum being a part of the forces that are taking part in a glue bond, for any of the different mechanisms for Adhesives\Glues.

So firstly I would be personally very interested to locate a reference source for the claim that "All glues work by creating a vacuum."
And secondly, as your posts carry the added weight and responsibility of a "Trade" badge isn't there an ethical element to reference a claim like this, on how glues work.
 

Pearlescence

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
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Oct 3, 2013
Messages
548
I'm not going to get into a back and forth on glue, Beaders Secret. Please be very happy with your knowledge, ethics and adhesion choices going forward.
 
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